I'm sure many of us here have bore witness to or interacted with those individuals who stand around offering pamphlets with quaint reading material such as "ARMAGEDDON IS NEAR", "ONLY JESUS CAN SAVE YOU", etc. Jehovah's Witnesses usually, though oftentimes it is simply a person who is a devotee of the teachings of the Christ and attempt to spread this to others in hopes of "saving" our souls, even when the souls they see do not need to be saved or have already been "saved".
I had such a run-in this morning. While in the subway platform waiting for my train to come, a lady came up to the fellow beside me and started lecturing him on how he HAS to give his soul over to Jesus and deem him savior lest he never achieve salvation. Then she came up to me. The conversation went as follows:
Her: "Would you like a bible?" -holds up Holy Bible to me-
Me: "No thank you".
Her: "Do you have one at home?"
Me: "No, I do not need one."
Her: "But why? You must read the words of God or else you cannot be saved!"
Me: "I see God in all things."
Her: "But you must accept Jesus as your savior".
Me: -rolls down sleeve, shows her my prayer beads- "Miss, do you see this? These are prayer beads. I hold spiritual beliefs."
Her: "Prayer beads?"
Me: "Yes, prayer beads. For praying and reciting mantras."
Her: "Oh, but prayer beads will only get in your way! For it is JESUS, the only son of God, which you must pray to who may save you."
Me: "We are all the children of God."
Her: "NO WE ARE NOT, ONLY JESUS IS THE CHILD OF GOD. UNLESS JESUS IS ACCEPTED YOUR SOUL CANNOT BE SAVED EVEN IF YOU PRAY TO GOD. ONLY JESUS IS GOD".
Me: "I believe in one God."
Her: "BUT IF THAT GOD IS NOT JESUS THEN IT IS NOT GOD."
Then the train came, drowning her out. I left her with a "God bless you" and hopped on the train, as she said "I love you and Jesus loves you!" to me.
I was very close to being irked by her, yet I remained unmoving in my comprehension that she and I serve the same being with the common goal of dispersing love and light to others. Synchronistically enough, while on the previous train (I was transferring between trains) I was reading a bit of Carla's "A Channeling Handbook" on my iTouch, then meditated quietly for the remainder of the ride. After my usual prayer I stated that I understand that all individuals I meet and interact with are the Creator's way of testing me, for the Creator is within all beings and thus all words I direct to another are directed to the Creator. It will know if I am true to my intentions and faith by sending teachers and inquisitors in the form of people and situations my way. It will watch me and hear how I respond and carry myself using the eyes of those the Creator sends my way as proxies, ever aware and ever present.
Thus, by thinking these thoughts the Creator sent my way a test, one which involved my simultaneous repression/transmutation of impatience/annoyance into acceptance with this individual who was imposing her beliefs upon me when I was not in need of it, judging me and dictating whether my soul will be saved or not and not losing sight of the fact that it was the Creator testing my acceptance. Heh, if only she was aware of the thoughts within the mind of the one she was talking to she and who exactly I am she would not have been so imposing and quick to make judgements upon my soul. It nearly offended me until I caught myself and understood the true nature of this occurence.
As I'd gotten on the train I turned to the fellow beside me who she'd hounded and said "Well she was certainly imposing, wasn't she?" He replied "Man, that b**** was crazy". I believe this highlights the high ineffectivity of such methods of "spreading the love", given that by attempting to forcefully impose her will and beliefs upon another who has not sought her guidance she instead succeeded in repelling, inciting aversion to the work which she attempts to advocate and essentially smearing the name of the Christ, given that devotees who preach are now being associated with being insane and unpleasant. Even those who would have been willing to listen or begin to ascribe to the beliefs they offered become turned away by the rude and inconsiderate approach taken by them.
Your thoughts?
You did well. I usually empower them by saying everything they want to hear so they move on to their next victim.
Do you think by going about this service in the way they approach it, is it actually detrimental to their pursuits and goals?
It depends what their goals really are. Maybe their goal, at a deep emotional level, is to feel virtuous and, perhaps, better than those they see as unsaved. In that case, their tactics are producing their goals.
Godwide,
Can I ask you to elaborate about your thinking around the Creator testing you?
IMO, I cannot say one way or the other because if such testing does take place it is not announced or confirmed by any authority. What I see is that wwe are all faced with particular expeirnces which are the result of both choices that are made by us and others around us, and natural interventions into our lives.
I would be interested in learning more about why you think that the Creator is testing you?
(03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]I believe this highlights the high ineffectivity of such methods of "spreading the love", given that by attempting to forcefully impose her will and beliefs upon another who has not sought her guidance she instead succeeded in repelling, inciting aversion to the work which she attempts to advocate and essentially smearing the name of the Christ, given that devotees who preach are now being associated with being insane and unpleasant. Even those who would have been willing to listen or begin to ascribe to the beliefs they offered become turned away by the rude and inconsiderate approach taken by them.
Your thoughts?
I believe this is a poignant point to keep in mind even for us who consider ourselves enlightened, and our desire to debrief the unenlightened by spreading our holy wisdom. No matter how rational or grounded of an argument you make, if the seeker isn't ready it will go in one ear and out the other. And the more you attempt to prove a person wrong on any subject, it's your will over theirs and now you're attempting to do everything for them. It's all relative, and we're seen in the same light.
Ra made a good point about how we are to be "passive radiators or broadcasters of love and love/light." So there is always the offering without an attachment to outcome. If it's not desired, I guess we just have to move along. One of my favorite quotes.."To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested."
Quote:73.12 Questioner: Many so-called evangelists which we have in our society at present have great desire and very great will, and possibly great polarity, but it seems to me that in many cases that there is a lack of awareness that creates a less than effective working in the magical sense. Am I correct in this analysis?
Ra: I am Ra. You are partially correct. In examining the polarity of a service-to-others working the free will must be seen as paramount. Those entities of which you speak are attempting to generate positive changes in consciousness while abridging free will. This causes the blockage of the magical nature of the working except in those cases wherein an entity freely desires to accept the working of the evangelist, as you have called it.
(03-16-2012, 10:44 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Do you think by going about this service in the way they approach it, is it actually detrimental to their pursuits and goals?
Will it achieve what they blindly think they are achieving? No.
Are they the type that needs to be "that" person on their journey to enlightenment? Evidently
(03-16-2012, 10:55 AM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]It depends what their goals really are. Maybe their goal, at a deep emotional level, is to feel virtuous and, perhaps, better than those they see as unsaved. In that case, their tactics are producing their goals.
For those who retain the "holier than thou" attitude you imply, they fall into the negative sinkhole of creating within their minds a divisive paradigm of saved vs. unsaved, elite vs. lesser, better vs. worse, and though not aware of it exude slight conceitedness and arrogance. Their efforts to want to serve are commendable but everything about the manner they go about it is off-beat. Who can profess true love and acceptance of all others if their view is obscured by the notion that others around them are godless and tainted and need to be shepherded? What "virtue" they feel might be artificial if it arises from such a delusion.
As for their tactics producing their goals, I have actually never seen these imposing pamphlet passers ever successfully impact another or get their message across. Not surprisingly as they go about it in an inconsiderate manner with questionable intentions.
(03-16-2012, 11:06 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Godwide,
Can I ask you to elaborate about your thinking around the Creator testing you?
IMO, I cannot say one way or the other because if such testing does take place it is not announced or confirmed by any authority. What I see is that wwe are all faced with particular expeirnces which are the result of both choices that are made by us and others around us, and natural interventions into our lives.
I would be interested in learning more about why you think that the Creator is testing you?
Not so much testing as it is catalyst intended to ratify the proclamations I make. The thoughts I hold in my mind are just as much of major benefactors as the deeds I enact in creating the experiences I undergo in my life. I am at a point where the manner in which my subconscious gives rise to the circumstances which surround me are seamless and near-instantaneous. I deeply acknowledge the waltz I am eternally engaged in with the Universe, and am consciously aware that absolutely anything which I am faced with in life is intricately correlated with some mental formation I hold or have held.
Though it took much refining of my discerning abilities, I am now able to, more often than not, recognize and gain understanding of exactly WHY any particular catalyst in my life is offered to me and what were the mental distortions I held previously which have given rise to what is currently occurring. Everything which enters my field of awareness holds deep meaning hidden somewhere. In the manner of one's dreams, the Creator/subconscious mind/Higher Self communicates with us in symbols and metaphors and may manifest as absolutely anything within any moment of our day.
In regards to the Creator testing me, are not all of us being tested? Is not incarnation in this world an exam in itself for the soul? Lessons, learning experiences, catalysts, tests, any may apply when speaking of the various happenings in this cosmic classroom we call Earth.
Good for you for not getting irritated. I worked many years on that. Now, I just say No Thank You, and do not engage. It won't work (in my opinion), because they are out to validate their stand on the issue. More below.
(03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]After my usual prayer I stated that I understand that all individuals I meet and interact with are the Creator's way of testing me, for the Creator is within all beings and thus all words I direct to another are directed to the Creator. It will know if I am true to my intentions and faith by sending teachers and inquisitors in the form of people and situations my way. It will watch me and hear how I respond and carry myself using the eyes of those the Creator sends my way as proxies, ever aware and ever present.
To see these things as a test by the "Creator" is giving authority to something/someone outside of self (the Creator). As I see it, it was catalyst, an opportunity for you to deal with some aspect of yourself.
(03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Heh, if only she was aware of the thoughts within the mind of the one she was talking to she and who exactly I am she would not have been so imposing and quick to make judgements upon my soul. It nearly offended me until I caught myself and understood the true nature of this occurence.
I doubt this. Christians are obliged to hold a very narrow view (even within the Christian genre, they say the others are wrong--Protestant, Catholic, Mormon, and so on). A big flaw in religions is the thinking that their way is the only way. So it's doubtful she would have seen into your heart and understood.
Christians are also obliged to use complex strategies in order to believe because their religion is bible-based. I have read the whole bible: in general, it is unloving, unforgiving, and horribly violent (if you doubt this, just go to the ten commandments and read the 2 pages following). Christians must rationalize this with a "loving" god. Also, the basic premise that an individual would have to do one thing in order not to burn in hell is so horrible, I don't want to take the time to say what I think of it. It is all
nonsensical, and subsequently they use phrases such as, "We can't know why God does this, that." So when the church mandates that the members proselytize, it is an opportunity to convince others, which is a device
the mind uses to validate itself. In other words, the act of converting others makes the proselyter feel less doubtful about the nonsense.
So, although I think there may be some Christians who, in part, wish to actually do good by proselytizing, I think the bigger reason is validation, and adherence to a system because they have not awakened to thinking for themselves.
(03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Even those who would have been willing to listen or begin to ascribe to the beliefs they offered become turned away by the rude and inconsiderate approach taken by them.
This is actually good. We need to move away from religions to waking up to our own thinking and feeling about the world. So, in a way, we can be thankful that proselytizers are so obnoxious.
(03-16-2012, 11:34 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ] (03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]I believe this highlights the high ineffectivity of such methods of "spreading the love", given that by attempting to forcefully impose her will and beliefs upon another who has not sought her guidance she instead succeeded in repelling, inciting aversion to the work which she attempts to advocate and essentially smearing the name of the Christ, given that devotees who preach are now being associated with being insane and unpleasant. Even those who would have been willing to listen or begin to ascribe to the beliefs they offered become turned away by the rude and inconsiderate approach taken by them.
Your thoughts?
I believe this is a poignant point to keep in mind even for us who consider ourselves enlightened, and our desire to debrief the unenlightened by spreading our holy wisdom. No matter how rational or grounded of an argument you make, if the seeker isn't ready it will go in one ear and out the other. And the more you attempt to prove a person wrong on any subject, it's your will over theirs and now you're attempting to do everything for them. It's all relative, and we're seen in the same light.
Ra made a good point about how we are to be "passive radiators or broadcasters of love and love/light." So there is always the offering without an attachment to outcome. If it's not desired, I guess we just have to move along. One of my favorite quotes.."To those who wish to sleep we could only offer those comforts designed for the sleeping. Service is only possible to the extent it is requested."
Quote:73.12 Questioner: Many so-called evangelists which we have in our society at present have great desire and very great will, and possibly great polarity, but it seems to me that in many cases that there is a lack of awareness that creates a less than effective working in the magical sense. Am I correct in this analysis?
Ra: I am Ra. You are partially correct. In examining the polarity of a service-to-others working the free will must be seen as paramount. Those entities of which you speak are attempting to generate positive changes in consciousness while abridging free will. This causes the blockage of the magical nature of the working except in those cases wherein an entity freely desires to accept the working of the evangelist, as you have called it.
Excellent post and point made, Icaro. "Enlightenment" cannot be communicated in words to another, as such a concept is an umbrella term referring to the the process of attaining it, the successive experiences of revelation and insight which comprise one's "enlightenment", and the remainder of one's life in the effort to integrate what one has learned, uphold and convey what one has learned through their presentation of self, and basically how they choose to approach life having achieved such a state. None of this may be completely expressed to another. There also exists the matter that what constitutes "enlightenment" differs for many people, both in concept and in content. A very simple definition would be becoming aware of the true nature of things, yet it is far more elaborate than that.
An infinite amount of truths exist for an infinite number of beings. Interference in the ascertainment of truth in the path of another is essentially running in during a class in session, going up to a student, and telling them the "best way" to write their essay out, from what to write to what to even write about. As you said, presenting information to those not yet ready to hear it will prove unsuccessful, and it is through exuding what you wish to convey to others through your very beingness in the hopes that others may be inspired by your example is a much better way to lead others to that which you seek to get across. Going up to an individual and lecturing them on how love and light is paramount wouldn't work as well as simply being a kind and compassionate person whose aura puts others around them at peace.
(03-16-2012, 12:43 PM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]As for their tactics producing their goals, I have actually never seen these imposing pamphlet passers ever successfully impact another or get their message across. Not surprisingly as they go about it in an inconsiderate manner with questionable intentions.
I just meant that if their goal is to feel superior, then making it so that others don't listen is furthering their goal. "They don't listen because they're not as virtuous as me."
Most will do what they are successfully programmed to do. This is why workplaces put importance on "education" as they are certified as very good at following instructions.
Father forgive them for they know not what they do.
(03-16-2012, 01:11 PM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]"Enlightenment" cannot be communicated in words to another, as such a concept is an umbrella term referring to the the process of attaining it, the successive experiences of revelation and insight which comprise one's "enlightenment", and the remainder of one's life in the effort to integrate what one has learned, uphold and convey what one has learned through their presentation of self, and basically how they choose to approach life having achieved such a state. None of this may be completely expressed to another.
It certainly can't be. In general I think those who consider themselves progressive or enlightened (not necessarily in the spiritual sense) have superiority issues, and they feel the need to put others in their place. It seems the role of the teacher is to simply be available or to make an offering, and if it's apparent there is no movement towards mutual understanding, pressing forward with one's opinion is imbalanced. Because then you're really not trying to teach the other, rather you are simply reinforcing your own beliefs. That's stroking the self.
Quote:As you said, presenting information to those not yet ready to hear it will prove unsuccessful, and it is through exuding what you wish to convey to others through your very beingness in the hopes that others may be inspired by your example is a much better way to lead others to that which you seek to get across.
It makes a lot of sense.
I think that reality is only a test if you want it to be a test, i believe in infinity and therefore infinite tests will be awaiting me or i can direct it another way and view it as an infinite eternal moment, mine and ours to be whatever we wish it to be.
Existence supports all, it can be tests, it can be communities, it can be hells and heavens, it can be in and between, it can be fairies and dinosaurs, it is yours it is mine.. It is
I was thinking just today how some types of experience are not needed anymore for me, i do not feel i have to test myself to see if i passed it, i just choose to be what i already am.
This is obviously my view
Edit: I would like to add a an idea that i heard from Almine, Life/reality/everything is for the simple enjoyment of itself, and what i am doing now is refining my ability to enjoy it all. All of this is for my enjoyment and the refinement of it. I welcome anyone that wants to enjoy it too.
(03-16-2012, 11:21 PM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]Edit: I would like to add a an idea that i heard from Almine, Life/reality/everything is for the simple enjoyment of itself, and what i am doing now is refining my ability to enjoy it all. All of this is for my enjoyment and the refinement of it. I welcome anyone that wants to enjoy it too.
I agree, and I think that's what the heart of being is..radiation of utter happiness.
The reason I asked Godwide about his thoughts on the Creator testing us is because I value his wisdom on such matters. He has an ancient consciousness and there is much to be offered.
In my understanding, we are all fields of consciousness. Vibrating frequencies of sound that are affected by other fields. It is in this convergence with other fields that we realize those affects.
This is what I understand to be the design of the creation.
Now, as fields of consciousness that spawn from the One Consciousness we are its continuing thought process and as such there is something that needs to be considered when we try to comprehend the testing of the Creator. Some mistakenly comprehend this as a separate entity somehow placing tests in our path.
Godwide understands the process well. The design, in which we all partake, is a process of going through a course of experiences that enable us to grow and evolve based upon how we confront them and learn from them. These experiences are not so much tests, as in the way that many would define testing, as they are being subjected to the fields of experiences and memories of other fields, vibrations and frequencies already made, that have gone on before us, and dealing with those confrontations according to our own evolved abilties.
This is what Godwide explained very nicely.
Everything that we experience is simply a succession of previous sounds and frequencies already made by fields evolving ahead of us, which are all rooted in that One Frequency in which All is contained.
That we have the ability to confront these fields of consciousness and their affect on our own frequencies and vibrations, according to our own degrees of evolved status, is what we percieve as free will.
(03-16-2012, 01:55 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ] (03-16-2012, 12:43 PM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]As for their tactics producing their goals, I have actually never seen these imposing pamphlet passers ever successfully impact another or get their message across. Not surprisingly as they go about it in an inconsiderate manner with questionable intentions.
I just meant that if their goal is to feel superior, then making it so that others don't listen is furthering their goal. "They don't listen because they're not as virtuous as me."
Ah, I see what you're saying now and you're absolutely right. What they also do not understand is that other's rejection of their service is clear catalyst from Creator manifested by the subconscious mind into reality as a reflection in direct correlation to the distortion they perform of imposing their wills and beliefs upon others.
(03-16-2012, 01:09 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]Good for you for not getting irritated. I worked many years on that. Now, I just say No Thank You, and do not engage. It won't work (in my opinion), because they are out to validate their stand on the issue. More below.
(03-16-2012, 09:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]After my usual prayer I stated that I understand that all individuals I meet and interact with are the Creator's way of testing me, for the Creator is within all beings and thus all words I direct to another are directed to the Creator. It will know if I am true to my intentions and faith by sending teachers and inquisitors in the form of people and situations my way. It will watch me and hear how I respond and carry myself using the eyes of those the Creator sends my way as proxies, ever aware and ever present.
To see these things as a test by the "Creator" is giving authority to something/someone outside of self (the Creator). As I see it, it was catalyst, an opportunity for you to deal with some aspect of yourself.
I do not view such as being a separate entity from myself. I comprehend that this is but one of many forms I take, acting as a vessel, a proxy, a conduit of creative manifestation, and am essentially an individuated portion of the infinite awareness of what you all know as Creator. All which surrounds me is meant to be. I have simply zoomed in upon one particular universe occurring within myself and have chosen to immerse myself within the many moments of this particular incarnation on the path which leads to my completed self, when All have become One.
(03-16-2012, 11:21 PM)drifting pages Wrote: [ -> ]I think that reality is only a test if you want it to be a test, i believe in infinity and therefore infinite tests will be awaiting me or i can direct it another way and view it as an infinite eternal moment, mine and ours to be whatever we wish it to be.
Existence supports all, it can be tests, it can be communities, it can be hells and heavens, it can be in and between, it can be fairies and dinosaurs, it is yours it is mine.. It is
I was thinking just today how some types of experience are not needed anymore for me, i do not feel i have to test myself to see if i passed it, i just choose to be what i already am.
This is obviously my view
Edit: I would like to add a an idea that i heard from Almine, Life/reality/everything is for the simple enjoyment of itself, and what i am doing now is refining my ability to enjoy it all. All of this is for my enjoyment and the refinement of it. I welcome anyone that wants to enjoy it too.
A lesson exists within all experiences. The test serves to determine how your beingness is forged at any given moment, and how you may proceed. It allows for constant refinement and improvement. It allows for growth. However I elaborated further that I consider catalysts, lessons, life experiences, tests, etc. to be somewhat interchangeable. I have a clear comprehension as to what constitutes each in detail.
Yes, the Creation is meant to be enjoyed. Why would our best intentions not be top priority? The Creation would not be if it were not loved dearly.
Dei plena sunt omnia... God is in all things.
"Knew I then that all that has being is growing to meet yet another being in a far-off grouping of space and of time."
(03-16-2012, 11:56 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The reason I asked Godwide about his thoughts on the Creator testing us is because I value his wisdom on such matters. He has an ancient consciousness and there is much to be offered.
In my understanding, we are all fields of consciousness. Vibrating frequencies of sound that are affected by other fields. It is in this convergence with other fields that we realize those affects.
This is what I understand to be the design of the creation.
Now, as fields of consciousness that spawn from the One Consciousness we are its continuing thought process and as such there is something that needs to be considered when we try to comprehend the testing of the Creator. Some mistakenly comprehend this as a separate entity somehow placing tests in our path.
Godwide understands the process well. The design, in which we all partake, is a process of going through a course of experiences that enable us to grow and evolve based upon how we confront them and learn from them. These experiences are not so much tests, as in the way that many would define testing, as they are being subjected to the fields of experiences and memories of other fields, vibrations and frequencies already made, that have gone on before us, and dealing with those confrontations according to our own evolved abilties.
This is what Godwide explained very nicely.
Everything that we experience is simply a succession of previous sounds and frequencies already made by fields evolving ahead of us, which are all rooted in that One Frequency in which All is contained.
That we have the ability to confront these fields of consciousness and their affect on our own frequencies and vibrations, according to our own degrees of evolved status, is what we percieve as free will.
Wonderful notation that all exist as vibrational frequencies, and all hold their own unique frequency, and interaction of anything changes the frequency within those two things, which effects the holographic coding of that particular reality construct.
Likewise, I too am particularly fond of the wise light you disperse. Your above post, I simply could not have said it any better myself. I enjoy re-reading your posts for, as the tablets, more insight is acquired with each successive intake.
You have made mention of the ancient age of my consciousness quite a few times. Is there any more information you may divulge in order to expand upon this? My curiosity wishes to know how you may gather that I am one of many eons ago and what confirms it for you?
(03-17-2012, 02:23 AM)godwide_void Wrote: [ -> ]Wonderful notation that all exist as vibrational frequencies, and all hold their own unique frequency, and interaction of anything changes the frequency within those two things, which effects the holographic coding of that particular reality construct.
Likewise, I too am particularly fond of the wise light you disperse. Your above post, I simply could not have said it any better myself. I enjoy re-reading your posts for, as the tablets, more insight is acquired with each successive intake.
You have made mention of the ancient age of my consciousness quite a few times. Is there any more information you may divulge in order to expand upon this? My curiosity wishes to know how you may gather that I am one of many eons ago and what confirms it for you?
I will have to PM you on that Godwide or risk betraying confidences.
Understood and looking forward to it.