Bring4th

We seek within.

mind over matter.
The mind is the boss, and the body follows its orders.
However I believe we have been given some kind of body template when we incarnate, but it can be molded in certain ways.
Even our moods can change our looks in such ways it is amazing - when I look at myself when I am angry, as opposed to when I am relaxed and in a good mood, it is like completely different persons.
There have been stories about people overcoming cancer, terminal cancer, simply by visualizing the healthy body cells being stronger than the cancerogenous ones.

I had a 69 Ford falcon many years ago that got me to many places and I never had a clue about half of its mechanical aspects. I knew it had an engine and many systems, but I didn't have to know the intricate details about its workings to drive it and make use of it.

Would such knowledge have been useful in the event of a meltdown? Sure, but the fact is that a child could get behind the wheel and make it go if they wanted to.

That old car is long gone now and just a memory. Its returned to the material from whence it came and is just another aspect of the material universe.

That old car is my body. It served its purpose and I didn't really have a clue how it worked. It just did.

My consciousness will travel in many old cars, and exceed them all in age many times over. My consciousness lives on long after they turn into rusted and decaying material. Of what use are they now to a consciousness that lives eternal and travels in newer replacements time after time?

Compared to the consciousness that uses them, material bodies are just fleeting seconds in time.

As one drives down the road in their vehicle, you can look at the dash, the lights and the leather, and love the vehicle and all its magnificent glory, or you cal look out the window and actually appreciate the wonders that you were missing.

Don't miss out on the journey while enjoying the vehicle. In a few years it will be junk, yet the journey continues.

We seek within.

Gawd, if human was all I was, it would be a sad life indeed.

(04-16-2012, 09:12 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I had a 69 Ford falcon many years ago that got me to many places and I never had a clue about half of its mechanical aspects. I knew it had an engine and many systems, but I didn't have to know the intricate details about its workings to drive it and make use of it.

Would such knowledge have been useful in the event of a meltdown? Sure, but the fact is that a child could get behind the wheel and make it go if they wanted to.

That old car is long gone now and just a memory. Its returned to the material from whence it came and is just another aspect of the material universe.

That old car is my body. It served its purpose and I didn't really have a clue how it worked. It just did.

My consciousness will travel in many old cars, and exceed them all in age many times over. My consciousness lives on long after they turn into rusted and decaying material. Of what use are they now to a consciousness that lives eternal and travels in newer replacements time after time?

Compared to the consciousness that uses them, material bodies are just fleeting seconds in time.

As one drives down the road in their vehicle, you can look at the dash, the lights and the leather, and love the vehicle and all its magnificent glory, or you cal look out the window and actually appreciate the wonders that you were missing.

Don't miss out on the journey while enjoying the vehicle. In a few years it will be junk, yet the journey continues.

Ah, yes. I've used this "vehicle" analogy for a long time, too. It just makes sense. And while I agree that I don't want to miss the journey, I am also a good steward of the vehicle and take care to keep everything in good working order, provide the correct fuel, etc. I like to drive the same car for a very long time! Current car has 259,000 miles on it!

(04-16-2012, 10:46 PM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-16-2012, 09:12 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I had a 69 Ford falcon many years ago that got me to many places and I never had a clue about half of its mechanical aspects. I knew it had an engine and many systems, but I didn't have to know the intricate details about its workings to drive it and make use of it.

Would such knowledge have been useful in the event of a meltdown? Sure, but the fact is that a child could get behind the wheel and make it go if they wanted to.

That old car is long gone now and just a memory. Its returned to the material from whence it came and is just another aspect of the material universe.

That old car is my body. It served its purpose and I didn't really have a clue how it worked. It just did.

My consciousness will travel in many old cars, and exceed them all in age many times over. My consciousness lives on long after they turn into rusted and decaying material. Of what use are they now to a consciousness that lives eternal and travels in newer replacements time after time?

Compared to the consciousness that uses them, material bodies are just fleeting seconds in time.

As one drives down the road in their vehicle, you can look at the dash, the lights and the leather, and love the vehicle and all its magnificent glory, or you cal look out the window and actually appreciate the wonders that you were missing.

Don't miss out on the journey while enjoying the vehicle. In a few years it will be junk, yet the journey continues.

Ah, yes. I've used this "vehicle" analogy for a long time, too. It just makes sense. And while I agree that I don't want to miss the journey, I am also a good steward of the vehicle and take care to keep everything in good working order, provide the correct fuel, etc. I like to drive the same car for a very long time! Current car has 259,000 miles on it!

lol, Ruth, current driver has 476414401903959581598561093851598610956139586109586019310985619053610956094358019856019586015601956 plus centuries on it. Forgive me for leavin out the commas.

(04-16-2012, 11:42 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-16-2012, 10:46 PM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-16-2012, 09:12 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I had a 69 Ford falcon many years ago that got me to many places and I never had a clue about half of its mechanical aspects. I knew it had an engine and many systems, but I didn't have to know the intricate details about its workings to drive it and make use of it.

Would such knowledge have been useful in the event of a meltdown? Sure, but the fact is that a child could get behind the wheel and make it go if they wanted to.

That old car is long gone now and just a memory. Its returned to the material from whence it came and is just another aspect of the material universe.

That old car is my body. It served its purpose and I didn't really have a clue how it worked. It just did.

My consciousness will travel in many old cars, and exceed them all in age many times over. My consciousness lives on long after they turn into rusted and decaying material. Of what use are they now to a consciousness that lives eternal and travels in newer replacements time after time?

Compared to the consciousness that uses them, material bodies are just fleeting seconds in time.

As one drives down the road in their vehicle, you can look at the dash, the lights and the leather, and love the vehicle and all its magnificent glory, or you cal look out the window and actually appreciate the wonders that you were missing.

Don't miss out on the journey while enjoying the vehicle. In a few years it will be junk, yet the journey continues.

Ah, yes. I've used this "vehicle" analogy for a long time, too. It just makes sense. And while I agree that I don't want to miss the journey, I am also a good steward of the vehicle and take care to keep everything in good working order, provide the correct fuel, etc. I like to drive the same car for a very long time! Current car has 259,000 miles on it!

lol, Ruth, current driver has 476414401903959581598561093851598610956139586109586019310985619053610956094358019856019586015601956 plus centuries on it. Forgive me for leavin out the commas.

LOL - I was hoping you'd come back with something like that. I thought you would!

I think I might have sprained something.

I see two answers.

Creature defined is "image of being" or "the living part" or "under control of". Therefore if the body is the creature of the mind, it shall be at the mercy of the mind. Furthermore, the mind has power over itself to create an image of the body within the constructs of the mind without the reality of the body being present.

With that said, I would challenge anyone to think mindful thoughts after their head has been severed. in that respect, the body has all the control.

---

(04-16-2012, 02:53 PM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ]Aha! You know, someone else I met actually used the "car" analogy.

They were like, "When you're driving a Hyundai, do you think you're a Hyundai? If you're in a car lot, going around looking at cars, all these different makes and models, you can get in them, but you don't mistake yourself for them. You don't buy a Honda and think "Oh, I'm a Honda now"." Obviously he was clearly suggesting that we are the Spirit which "drives" the body.

There is an interesting Divinecosmos thread that uses this analogy extensively. Some of it by yours truly.

(04-18-2012, 12:25 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]With that said, I would challenge anyone to think mindful thoughts after their head has been severed. in that respect, the body has all the control.

All that means is that the body is required to express mindful thoughts to you in the physical world.

Body and mind are principles. I tend to think of the most simple manifestations of body and mind as being the space and time of 1st density.

(04-18-2012, 12:25 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]I see two answers.

Creature defined is "image of being" or "the living part" or "under control of". Therefore if the body is the creature of the mind, it shall be at the mercy of the mind. Furthermore, the mind has power over itself to create an image of the body within the constructs of the mind without the reality of the body being present.

With that said, I would challenge anyone to think mindful thoughts after their head has been severed. in that respect, the body has all the control.

---

If the body was under the control of the mind we should be able to will ourselves to death, and yet we cannot. There must be an external physical event to take place that disrupts the biology. So the body is not controlled by the mind. However you are right in that the mind is able to create illusions about how we perceive the body, and also to suggest attitudes toward wearing it.

With regard to thinking once the head is severed, one would have to consider the age old mystery of exactly 'where' the consciousness resides in the human form. If one supposes that the consciousness resides in the head than it would not be surprising to hear them suggest that a bodiless head can continue to think because it has the brain inside of it.

Or there are those who believe that the brain cannot function without the whole body and the head would therefore be an unthinking piece of flesh once removed from the body.

We know the brain goes into shock during extreme violation of the bodily functions. Which is probably why the eyes and mouth do not work once the head is severed even though all of the organs and muscles that would be used for those functions of sight and speaking are located in that same piece of the body.

Does a person actually need their legs to see, or their abdomen to speak?

What a strange thing for me to be saying?

Point made I think is that true consciousness is not found in body parts, but is found much deeper in the physical makeup and not associated entirely with the physical but exists on a level that transcends both.

Ever further evidence of reincarnating consciousness.

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(04-18-2012, 12:52 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Body and mind are principles. I tend to think of the most simple manifestations of body and mind as being the space and time of 1st density.

If by 1st density you somehow refer to the origin of life and existence, than I would agree.

We can will ourselves to death, Shin'Ar. Body is the vehicle to carry your mind's actions.
You can either will yourself to death by committing suicide, or you can will so much hatred into it that you cause bodily malfunctions like cancer in your own body. Or you can accept to incarnate in a faulty vehicle, if that serves a purpose for you or for those that will see you in that vehicle, interact with it.

In your present physical circumstance you cannot sit down and actually will yourself to an immediate death. The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

(04-18-2012, 07:07 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]In your present physical circumstance you cannot sit down and actually will yourself to an immediate death. The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

But thing is: you can! You can get so angry that you get a heart attack or an inner bleeding in your brain. it is a planet-wide disease that we are facing as a society right now, and it is root is ourselves.

Anger is not what killed you in that case, but hearty failure. Otherwise every fit of temper would a means of suicide.

you are generalizing whereas I am speaking specifically.

Oh, you mean what if a perfectly healthy person would sit down and wish to die?
Yeah, that might not happen at all.

But that is because it is our own protection as a result of wishing to be in a healthy vehicle that we designed ourselves some kind of protections against temper tantrums, imho.

When one already have high blood pressure, that is because of years of imbalance, and THEN the body is confused enough so one really angry discussion is all it takes to cease incarnation.

(04-18-2012, 07:23 AM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, you mean what if a perfectly healthy person would sit down and wish to die?
Yeah, that might not happen at all.

But that is because it is our own protection as a result of wishing to be in a healthy vehicle that we designed ourselves some kind of protections against temper tantrums, imho.

When one already have high blood pressure, that is because of years of imbalance, and THEN the body is confused enough so one really angry discussion is all it takes to cease incarnation.

exactly!

Shin'ar, I think you are speaking of willing the laws of the universe and not the body.

What I was trying to say is that within the dancing of thought the "body" is the living part of the "mind". But remember, this is still thoughts dancing. We can't remove this from the ideas. In other words, when we are thinking about stuff and forming intricate thoughts about mind and body stuff, the body is the physical part of what is the thought, or the physical parts of the thought can be called a "body".

(04-18-2012, 08:15 AM)3DMonkey Wrote: [ -> ]Shin'ar, I think you are speaking of willing the laws of the universe and not the body.

What I was trying to say is that within the dancing of thought the "body" is the living part of the "mind". But remember, this is still thoughts dancing. We can't remove this from the ideas. In other words, when we are thinking about stuff and forming intricate thoughts about mind and body stuff, the body is the physical part of what is the thought, or the physical parts of the thought can be called a "body".

Not sure if you know what I mean by Nwyfre or not, it refers to the secret force behind all of existence. The main ingredient of all that is created.

This cannot be cancelled out by will or thought process.

Thought continues and with it so does creation. But there is an underlying process stemming from the Source of the All in which the thought is able to create form and transform.

In other words whatever it is that makes thought vibrate, is at the core of our existence and remains untouched by our ability to take part in it.

The Ouizzir (wizzard), may use this nwyfre to transmute, but he cannot deny it its role in existence.

"Nwyfre is also known as Chi or Prana"

(04-18-2012, 07:07 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

I'm not sure this is true, but would not want to find out.

(04-18-2012, 11:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2012, 07:07 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

I'm not sure this is true, but would not want to find out.

See if you can suffocate yourself by holding your breath and let me know how you make out.

(04-19-2012, 07:22 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2012, 11:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2012, 07:07 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

I'm not sure this is true, but would not want to find out.

See if you can suffocate yourself by holding your breath and let me know how you make out.

Yes, Shin'Ar, I'm sure we all understand what you meant in the first place.

(04-19-2012, 08:28 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-19-2012, 07:22 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2012, 11:35 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(04-18-2012, 07:07 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The physical body has built in involuntary functions that you cannot override through sheer will power.

I'm not sure this is true, but would not want to find out.

See if you can suffocate yourself by holding your breath and let me know how you make out.

Yes, Shin'Ar, I'm sure we all understand what you meant in the first place.

Were you holding your breath when you typed that Zen?

The body retains as its function the temporary vehicle in which the essence of the One utilizes in order to navigate through the physical and as a means of expressing Its Will through us as It perceives the infinite potential of manifesting the divine attributes it has endowed us with through this vehicle. The body is also the mobile warehouse of the mind and its child, the intellect, when considering the physical materialized form of the body. It is in essence a mere form which consciousness has taken on for Its own purposes.

Imagine you are a puppeteer. The puppet you are manipulating at this time has many, many strings which you may pull and release as you decide. If you have full knowledge of the precise function of each string, you may use the puppet to its full potential. But unless the puppet itself is equipped with a self-destruct string, you will not easily be able to destroy the puppet only by manipulating it.

Now let us extend the metaphor. Suppose you are a puppeteer, but your memory of being a puppeteer is artificially erased. Someone thrusts the control strings of the puppet into you hand, and while it feels vaguely familiar, you haven't the slightest clue how to make the puppet do anything useful. You toy around, you experiment. You try different things. Most of the time your puppeteering is awkward and incomplete. Sometimes you do something cool and it makes other people smile. If you are such an amnesiac puppeteer, even if there was a self-destruct string, or a complicated set of maneuvers which would lead to immediate destruction of the puppet, you would have no knowledge of it and, depending on how carefully this mechanism is hidden, you may never find it unless you are looking for it. The fact that you cannot make the puppet do exactly what you want it to do does not in any way entail that you are not manipulating it. It only suggests that you are not yet a master of manipulating it.

Are there not many recorded instances of Buddhist masters simply walking out of their bodies? Sounds to me like they have found the self-destruct string. Of course, there are certain circumstances which must be present in order for such a master to do so, but this fact only reveals the simplicity of my analogy, not the falsity of the mind's command over the body. The degree to which the body seems autonomous is precisely the degree to which its mechanisms are hidden from conscious influence. The same is true of compulsory actions at the behest of the (veiled) unconscious mind. Neurosis is a symptom of a conscious mind which is unacquainted with its unconscious aspect. The mere pursuit of self-knowledge brings with it self-mastery. This is no less true in mind's relationship to the body than it is in the mind's relationship to itself (for are the two not one?).