I guess this is a follow up to my most recent post. I've decided to give up cannabis for good forever. I accept the fact that it is a very useful medicine and hemp is a priceless material, but I believe its not to be used as a drug whatsoever.
I'm really ashamed that I've lied to myself for 13 years saying it was a spiritual tool, but its anything but. I've had so many morbid thoughts pop in my head and felt presences around me when I was on that s***, besides being paranoid and being around the dumbest people.
It's time for me to be that powerful Being of Light I was born to be. I can only reach my full potential sober and cleansed.
Adonai
Good Job Spirit!
I quit over a year ago. And I can't say I regret the decision, sometimes you smell it on the streets and there's no sweeter smell, so even now it's still in the system, but that's the best way to enjoy it.. From a distance. I've felt more energetic and alert. There are great ups with weed, but they don't outweigh the lows of frequent usage.
If you want to talk or a push in the back you can always PM me...
Would you say that weed made you more passive?
I noticed it in two people I know, that are frequent users.
They can't seem to get their s*** together.
I have never actually been what I would define as addicted to weed.
I can take it or leave it.
I always used to enjoy a good buzz, and the stones were very different of course depending on the type of weed and what it might have been mixed with. Usually though there is always that spaced out period which is really not much good for anything except 'being spaced out'.
Now I have a couple of long time, life time friends who became so addicted to weed that they do not enjoy anything without it. they will not even bother to go out of the house if they haven't got a means of getting stoned first or at least once they get out there. It is their motivation for everything in their life and because of that they have never been able to hold down a job, raise a family or even properly care for themselves. Their life has been an existence of drug induced influences. They cannot look after themselves let alone take on any obligation to anyone else. I have had to cancel fishing and hunting trips because we couldn't get any weed ahead of time to bring with us. Imagine! They wouldn't go if they couldn't stoned.
Although they say that there are no addictive ingredients in hemp, like gambling, it is not so much the ingredients, as it is an individual's ability to control the affects it has on you.
And after all, is that not really what addiction is anyway. It isn't the ingredients of the meth or the coke as much as the fact that the feelings you get from ingesting it decreases with each dosage, requiring one to need larger doses each time in order to get the same result. And when one cannot support or acquire that dosage/habit, and needs to be constantly putting more of it into their system, it's not the addictive ingredients, but the amount and regularity of the ingesting that becomes the issue.
And this is my friend's problem with weed, so it is absolutely no different at all.
Back in the 70s we used to have access to powerful weed from places like Columbia, Jamaica and Afghanistan. This stuff was so potent that smaller doses offered the same experiences as much higher doses of the cheaper stuff. And the amount that you used to get for 25 bucks would make kids today cry out in agony compared to what they get for 15 bucks. Man, someone is making a killing on that shiat. For 25 bucks you could fill a sandwich baggie with weed, and I mean tops and clumps. Now for 15 bucks you are lucky if you fill one of the bag's corners and get five pin joints out of it.
we used to roll a good forty to fifty finger sized joints out of an ounce of weed for 25 bucks, and one joint would get three or four people fried for a couple of hours easily. And I mean laughing your fool head off, happy time fun time fried. Not laid out on the couch unable to move or keep your eyes open fried. So you can imagine how far that stuff would go.
Today weed is so laced with chemicals and crap that you don't have a clue what the hell your ingesting. Unless your growing it yourself.
And it just doesn't have the same affect. My last few stones have just resulted in a numbing affect, a type of body stone that doesn't do anything for mood enhancement or enjoyment. Probably really only smoked some parsley with shoe polish and glue mixed into it for all I know. Some of it might make me a little hornier than usual, but so does ice cream and chocolate, and well, just about anything if my wife is in the near vicinity.(notice I didn't say women), love ya Babe.
weed is not weed anymore. anyone from my generation knows exactly what I am talking about. I've given up on it and have no interest in it whatsoever. Last time I looked in the mirror while I was stoned all I saw was a stupid old man that should know better.
I have no problem with enjoying a buzz. What I do have a problem with is someone not understanding the difference between a buzz and their desire to be like that 24 hours a day, to the degree where they would smoke or ingest anything to stay high. That is not casual entertainment anymore than alcoholism or any other substance abuse is casual enjoyment.
So to those who say that weed is not addictive or dangerous I say, "what planet are you getting your s*** from?"
Just like eating anything, one should know what they are ingesting. Your body is not a toilet.
GreatSpirit, I applaud you. The more you clear your body and mind of things that don't serve you, the more clear you will be. The more you feed your body and mind with the highest potential: nourishing food with life force, positive thoughts, reverence for life including self, the more you potentiate and assist your own growth and connection to all.
(05-19-2012, 10:55 AM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]GreatSpirit, I applaud you. The more you clear your body and mind of things that don't serve you, the more clear you will be. The more you feed your body and mind with the highest potential: nourishing food with life force, positive thoughts, reverence for life including self, the more you potentiate and assist your own growth and connection to all.
That is the key here. "things which do not serve you."
In some cases certain bodies require drugs in order to achieve an increase of some sort of service. There is nothing wrong with that as long as one knows what they require and what the reaction will be and can stabilize it.
the problem is with the unknown, the disservice, and the inability to stabilize.
For instance my son was subjected to all sorts of drug abuse in the womb, meaning god knows what was put in his system.
So he has acute ADHD issues. Without drugs he simply could not function in society.
I myself have recently begun treatment for ADHD and have seen a dramatic result in how I am able to function on a daily basis.
As I said it is not the drugs as much as it is the ignorant and/or foolish application of them.
I agree with Diana, feed your temple with high potential.
I believe I have something similar to a love/hate relationship with weed. Much like I have one with life. I suppose, that it is not the weed itself but my bad choices. However, it may sound strange but i feel that the option to smoke weed when I want is more important than actually smoking weed. For some of us hard shelled people the idea of "If i smoke this my higher self will take over and autopilot me through the day" is wonderful.
It feels like a box of surrender on a shelf. For me, I feel i had been in so much pain for so long I no longer had any idea who I actually was and noticed that after smoking for 2-3 months I got these random feelings of deep sadness and a moment of "I miss the souls of the people I used to know, i dont see them anymore" and only realised i hadnt seen them for years and years and years. Weed made the constant pain i have in my soul subside for long enough to actually be able to admit that I am in pain and that I do actually like and love people. Those used to last for maybe 3-7 seconds before i felt this dark wave of my "usual self" assume control again and i fall back into a state of "no feeling" literally. I do feel the buzz and the high that is associated with it but it feels more like a burning orgasm like feeling in the heart with no actual substance.
I wouldnt say that weed makes me feel good, but i would say it makes me feel so that I can actually see that I DONT feel good, and that there is a "vibration" out there/out here that does feel good. Just knowing that was, with enough time and weed able to show me that yes, while i might not be anywhere near ready for what i would term "love" right now, weed made it possible for me to know that such a thing is possible to have / be in.
That caused great changes in my life. I Feel like I have in a way slowly slid to the world of the dead but during my lifetime without actually ever dying and weed shows me that there is a another mode of thinking which is the "world of the living" which i thought i long lost.
I would say, also, that having an IQ of 145 and interatcing in normal society feels painful because it makes me believe separation is the norm. WHen i'm baked enough my social skills more closely match my peers and not all conversations are outergalactic.
I dont know if it a good thing, i suppose someone will, rightfully so, say that I Should just meditate and sit and ponder my own mistakes and so forth and learn from them. But my answer is that it is difficult to learn when every moment of your day feels like your on fire. Weed helps with that.
I would say that weed is sort of like the guide that Dante had, if that makes sense.
Best regards.
Well done Great Spirit!!
IMO, drugs and alcohol will never "help" anyone hold a job, be responsible to and for others, or develop their own strength.
It probably won't be easy to leave them be though--if using drugs and alcohol was a coping mechanism, you may find yourself back at the stage emotionally where you started because you used the drug instead of developing the emotional control and stability that comes with facing and meeting the normal vicissitudes of life over time--I will always say that being young is more difficult than being older. The teenagers I teach don't KNOW yet that "this too shall pass," "I will love again," and "this won't matter in the future" because they are too young to have seen this proven out in their lives. Older people have--I KNOW I'll be ok no matter what; I KNOW that I can handle what comes--age brings confidence--not that you'll always have the right answer, but that you have the ability to figure something out (I'd call it the MacGyver factor from an 80s action-adventure show).
(on a side note--I had a recent realization that I needed to work more on my ability not to react to certain catalyst in a negative way...and then followed the realization that the only way to "work" on that was to be presented with a lot of that kind of catalyst! So I "unwished" that as fast as possible and asked to learn in my dreams instead!)
Best of luck to you Friend!!
(05-19-2012, 11:57 AM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]I believe I have something similar to a love/hate relationship with weed. Much like I have one with life. I suppose, that it is not the weed itself but my bad choices. However, it may sound strange but i feel that the option to smoke weed when I want is more important than actually smoking weed. For some of us hard shelled people the idea of "If i smoke this my higher self will take over and autopilot me through the day" is wonderful.
It feels like a box of surrender on a shelf. For me, I feel i had been in so much pain for so long I no longer had any idea who I actually was and noticed that after smoking for 2-3 months I got these random feelings of deep sadness and a moment of "I miss the souls of the people I used to know, i dont see them anymore" and only realised i hadnt seen them for years and years and years. Weed made the constant pain i have in my soul subside for long enough to actually be able to admit that I am in pain and that I do actually like and love people. Those used to last for maybe 3-7 seconds before i felt this dark wave of my "usual self" assume control again and i fall back into a state of "no feeling" literally. I do feel the buzz and the high that is associated with it but it feels more like a burning orgasm like feeling in the heart with no actual substance.
I wouldnt say that weed makes me feel good, but i would say it makes me feel so that I can actually see that I DONT feel good, and that there is a "vibration" out there/out here that does feel good. Just knowing that was, with enough time and weed able to show me that yes, while i might not be anywhere near ready for what i would term "love" right now, weed made it possible for me to know that such a thing is possible to have / be in.
That caused great changes in my life. I Feel like I have in a way slowly slid to the world of the dead but during my lifetime without actually ever dying and weed shows me that there is a another mode of thinking which is the "world of the living" which i thought i long lost.
I would say, also, that having an IQ of 145 and interatcing in normal society feels painful because it makes me believe separation is the norm. WHen i'm baked enough my social skills more closely match my peers and not all conversations are outergalactic.
I dont know if it a good thing, i suppose someone will, rightfully so, say that I Should just meditate and sit and ponder my own mistakes and so forth and learn from them. But my answer is that it is difficult to learn when every moment of your day feels like your on fire. Weed helps with that.
I would say that weed is sort of like the guide that Dante had, if that makes sense.
Best regards.
Wow Cyan, your reasoning sounds much like the same reason one used for experimenting with STS. so that they can realize what NOT to do.
You make some good points. It certainly does have a way of easing the pains of obligation and hassle. there is no doubt about that.
But in that same mechanic, and in so doing, it also eliminates the actual means of fulfilling those obligations and finding a more optimal way of getting rid of the hassles.
Its a short fix.
And because of that requires continuing application to accomplish the affect.
And so its really a question of whether or not a person wants to be permanently 'medicated' and deluded into feeling that everything is painless. Its the abuse of it, the irregularity, the need. That is when it becomes the problem.
as you noted in how it removes you from your loved ones.
Cyan, how do you know it is your highest and best self taking control when high? Could it be a higher self, but not THE higher self?
When I have smoked recently, I get tuned into literally whatever entity is above my head at the moment. (Consciousness for me is tuned towards the crown when high. Similar mind effects can be experienced while sober by attempting to tune one's consciousness up there, I believe. But in exercising that, I havent come near the effects of actually smoking.)
In my experience, these entities definitely aren't required to have your best interests in mind. And they can feel like something trustworthy, like the higher self. Creating a relationship with the higher self while sober can help build a true discernment.
(05-19-2012, 12:42 PM)Bring4th_Aaron Wrote: [ -> ]Cyan, how do you know it is your highest and best self taking control when high? Could it be a higher self, but not THE higher self?
When I have smoked recently, I get tuned into literally whatever entity is above my head at the moment. (Consciousness for me is tuned towards the crown when high. Similar mind effects can be experienced while sober by attempting to tune one's consciousness up there, I believe. But in exercising that, I havent come near the effects of actually smoking.)
In my experience, these entities definitely aren't required to have your best interests in mind. And they can feel like something trustworthy, like the higher self. Creating a relationship with the higher self while sober can help build a true discernment.
It is true that there are many fields out there interacting with us at all times, and often our state is not a concern to them. Existence is an ongoing never ending series of interacting fields of consciousness, and if we expose ourselves drunkenly or inadequately to higher powers and energies we may not be able to deal with them or realize their influences until we are forced to suffer some adverse consequences as a result.
Very good replies. I too know a person who is enslaved to weed. I mean....it sounds so stupid to say "enslaved by weed", but I guess there are people out there who are just too weak and its a shame. I was never PHYSICALLY addicted to weed, and if you are, then you are about a 1 in a billion rarity.
I think that this is a very important topic because about 98% or 99% are higher density Wanderers and we tend to be more attracted to drugs and alcohol to kill the pain of 3rd density life, and also attempt to reach higher consciousness.
Trying to reach higher consciousness with drugs is like going on a vacation using Google Earth. lol.
Ra spoke specifically on marijuana. Ra says, "There are substances ingested which do not aid the individual in the service it has chosen, this being that which you would call the marijuana." lol. I like how Ra says "THE MARIJUANA!"
However, I am 100% for the full legalization and regulation of all drugs because prohibition has only created more death and destruction. That is just common sense.
(05-19-2012, 02:05 AM)GreatSpirit Wrote: [ -> ]I guess this is a follow up to my most recent post. I've decided to give up cannabis for good forever. I accept the fact that it is a very useful medicine and hemp is a priceless material, but I believe its not to be used as a drug whatsoever.
I'm really ashamed that I've lied to myself for 13 years saying it was a spiritual tool, but its anything but. I've had so many morbid thoughts pop in my head and felt presences around me when I was on that s***, besides being paranoid and being around the dumbest people.
It's time for me to be that powerful Being of Light I was born to be. I can only reach my full potential sober and cleansed.
Adonai
GreatSpirit, I applaud you for realizing this and, more importantly, acting on your realization! I know it can be difficult to assess whether cannabis is helpful spiritually or not, when it seems to have so many other benefits.
I quit smoking weed over 3 decades ago, for the very same reason. After I quit, I went back a few months later and had a totally different perspective; I too felt exactly as you just described.
Apparently not everyone feels this way about it, so I can only surmise that the windows of perception that get opened up might be different for different people. In other words, what do they see outside those windows?
When I first became introduced to weed the initial allure was in the air of mysticism and the sense of 'adventure' that every experience following a smoking session with friends would take on. One of the biggest joys that lent to it a desirable element was in how profoundly incredible and emotionally impacting music became while stoned. The ages of 17-19 were quite the hazy and reckless times considering that me and my close group of friends at that time all became aware that weed existed and could be obtainable quite easily. However, over time the initial profundity dissipated and plenty of negative experiences reared their heads due to weed. One instance in particular was a friend whom I'd considered a 'brother' then, who began treating weed like a junkie would treat some poisonous narcotic. He was Muslim and a good-hearted fellow, however he became compelled to steal, to get involved in situations that resulted in him and I disappearing from home for days at a time, and just general bullshit situations that caused a great drift and inflicted considerable heartache on his family, and on my end there was notice debilitation with my personal relationships (parents, significant other) although in our stoned, weed-focused states we could care less and did not stop to consider what our actions would be causing.
Eventually, and fortunately, we outgrew such reckless behavior and set our priorities straight, on my end at least, as that very friend whom had his downward spiral was forced to relocate to Egypt at his parent's demands considering all the 'bad influences' that led him to becoming that wild fellow here. Nowadays, there's a marked contrast between the manner that weed effects me now and how it used to before. The primary reasons I ceased smoking weed regularly is due to the major lack of motivation/apathy/dullness that lingers for some time after, the extreme haziness and mental fogginess that manifests, the anxiety that would swell up in me some time after I'd smoked (ESPECIALLY when I would be out in public the day or so after, I'd feel highly uncomfortable when I passed by people for no real reason), and the fact that my money was essentially being smoked away, which would detract from me being able to get things I actually needed or would be more beneficial. The first 3 reasons manifested much more noticeably and severely after frequent smoking in the span of a few days.
My current relationship with weed is more or less, it has little appeal to me now and its allure is very minuscule. I surprise some of my former smoking buddies when I tell them that I much prefer the mental clarity I attain after a week or more of sobriety than the stoning of weed! It isn't to say that I've completely quit weed, though I'm a much more infrequent and responsible indulger than I used to be, and this is an accomplishment to me as it would cause me to feel quite low reflecting on the way that weed could and did dictate my actions and focus. It isn't to say that I stopped smoking, as every now and then I don't mind enjoying a nice blunt or two to enhance the tranquility of the day, although when I do nowadays it's usually with my neighbor a few houses away. On a solo basis, I smoke when I want to (fairly rarely now), not because I NEED/HAVE to, though even when I get the urge to smoke it usually passes and I don't bother acting on it. My friend also to a degree made me feel a bit apprehensive about weed as he serves as an example on how weed can really benight someone negatively and become an addicting and life-dulling substance if its usage is left unchecked and unmoderated.
Funnily enough before I saw this thread I'd had the urge to smoke but realized there's very little point to do so. I too applaud you GreatSpirit for the realization you've come to and for sharing it, as there definitely becomes a point when certain things no longer serve a purpose and just need to be allowed to fall away. Though, in your proclamation that you can only reach your full potential as a powerful being of Light sober, I'd like to mention in passing that a combination of lengthened periods of focus and sobriety to achieve a more established connection while sober and divine communion through the responsible and infrequent usage of particular natural sacraments in ritual can allow one to realize a potential far beyond what one thought was the limit and indeed many boundaries become completely surpassed from this.
Just spent the last few hours listening to Deep Purple and remembering how weed sued to make that music come alive for me.
There is no doubt about the fact the music stoned and music sober are two different experiences.
there has to be a sound reason for that! lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6x8GGXrCFQ
For myself, without cannabis, I would probably still be arrogantly set in a twisted "Christian" worldview where people deserved to have wars waged against them and elitism was something to strive for. Without cannabis, I would have lost relationships due to pride and lack of insight. I agree most with the idea that for each person, it is different. Some will experience pitfalls on a regular basis, others will be elevated just as often.
As an aside, one smaller known factoid about cannabis is that aside from THC, there are over 90 other cannabinoids found in the plant as well. We focus on the THC because its the flashiest (that we know of), but those 90 other cannabinoids can do a whole range of things. Here's the deal: our bodies create cannabinoids all day long. They recently just published a study that shows that the chemical that produces a 'runner's high' is also a cannabinoid; these things are quite common in our bodies (hence why we have cannabinoid receptors in our brains). Our bodies create things called 'endo-cannabinoids' while the plants create 'phyto-cannabinoids", but it doesn't matter because our bodies can take them in exactly the same way just as effectively as the other. The cannabinoids "fit" together perfectly, so it's all good. They are widely used in the body to regulate different body functions and create therapeutic responses, so the implications are quite interesting.
My point in bringing that up is that there could be a lot of stuff that is going on beyond just the THC. If you find out what cannabinoids are broken down at each temperature, you can isolate the effects that you are looking for. This is where the aversion to research on the plant has really fallen short; we could be identifying and extracting these for improved health services, yet we put people in jail over it instead. There is great potential in the plant beyond just a recreational drug.
All that being said, I applaud you for making the decision that you feel is right for yourself. I think anyone who has smoked as a habit knows that weed can kick your ass. More power to ya, GreatSpirit! I hope your decision keeps you well
(05-19-2012, 02:08 PM)GreatSpirit Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to reach higher consciousness with drugs is like going on a vacation using Google Earth. lol.
Hey don't knock it, it's good fun
Especially since streetview!
cannibaloids eh. well that explains the munchies then doesnt it.
Weed definitely helped me think in new ways.
On the other hand, it also slowed my mind and prevented lengthy directed contemplative thought, my desire for social interaction, my desire to try new things. It also gave me a way out of processing a lot of emotions because of it's attention deficient effect on me where I would smoke and just go watch and movie, tv, or play a video game and not think about whatever I was trying to escape from. It became addictive in a certain sense to me. Weed is definitely more of a recreational drug than an enthoegenic or contemplative one for me, although it did serious enhance my enjoyment of music.
Overall, it served a purpose in my life but is a negative influence for me at this point and that's why I've quit (except for maybe a few times a year but even then it's more to share moments with my childhood friends than because I enjoy it).
That being said, shrooms had all of the positive effects without any of the abovementioned negatives (although it definitely caused more paranoia). It's definitely not a party/recreational drug imho, but man it fucking destroys your barriers. I couldn't handle doing that more than maybe once every few months.
@hogey11: Jogging before and after a nice joint or bowl causes quite the enhancement!
@xise: It's all about intention and focus. There are plenty of instances of people using mushrooms just to "see the colors melt maaannnnn" and "trip balls" then there are those who use it as divine communion or third eye-oriented work. Then there are those who take it and somewhere along the line lose the plot, lose their clothes, and end up running down the street naked. Though highly amusing, I'd like to know what in the hell compels people to end up streaking, on mushrooms in particular! The few times I've done mushrooms, I've found them to be particularly difficult to remain grounded on and retain composure with and in my first few experiences by the peak I become an insanely cackling and giggling mess of a madman for an hour straight for no particular reason at all! Though I have little desire to do mushrooms again as they never proved to be a substantial ally. My true personal preference, plant teacher, and sacred ally whom I have formed a deep bond with is Tlitliltzin (Morning Glory seeds) whom have taught and shown me much. It's surprising that most people disregard it simply because it causes a bit of nausea or leg cramps, and dismiss it as a 'cheap form of acid'. Not surprisingly is that the people who fit this demographic are those who seek a cheap buzz or to just 'trip', rather than honoring the divine essence present within them.
No doubt the use of marijuana and alcohol has both benefits and detractions. Personally speaking, while I have found value from a "spiritual awakening" standpoint, that particular value has long since passed. This is not to say that it is bad to use it for that purpose, but to simply be aware that the purpose is rather limited.
That being said, and based on both a limited education in counseling, and having been counseled myself, and in my opinion, the nature of psychological addiction is such that the inherent "wrongness" or "rightness" of a given addictive pattern is secondary to the judgement one places upon oneself for engaging in the behavior. It is this charge of self-judgment which keeps one indebted and locked in the cycle, and effectively "condemns" one to repeat it.
(The word condemn comes to mind as my understanding of the original intention behind the teaching of sin/repentance is that sin is to be stuck in a particular behavior pattern, the solution to which is to learn to change one's thinking, or literally re-pent. The root pen refers to thought.)
Paradoxically, it would seem that even though drugs and alcohol are often abused in order to "detach" oneself from the outer world, it is this the ability to "detach" oneself from one's use of substances which holds the key to being free from addiction. The ability to look at oneself, and say, "Ah yes, there I am again engaging in this addiction. Hmm. Isn't that interesting. I wonder why I am doing that?" is what allows a person to eventually change their thinking, and thus their behavior.
Therefore, as one may see, the placing of a strong charge on a certain behavior, including the avoidance thereof, actually serves to feed and perpetuate the selfsame behavior. Ironically, the detrimental impact of addictive behaviors seems to be independent of whether or not that behavior is deemed "good" or "bad" from a social, or even a health, standpoint. Example: People who are addicted to exercise.
So this is my long-winded way of setting up to say to you, GreatSpirit, that I support you in your efforts to become bigger than your addiction. For you truly are. However, in the interest of your expedited success, I would advise against the wisdom of making public declarations where you swear off drugs and alcohol "forevermore".
What I have experienced this leads to is for your subconscious mind to begin a process which eventually results in the attracting of a circumstance that, on the surface, appears as a "test". Again paradoxically, whether or not the test is "passed" or "failed", the outcome is to further embed yourself in the very pattern from which you would like to transcend.
The reason for this is because it is essentially a lie to yourself to act as if you are "one thing" but not "another thing". By saying I AM THIS, NOT THAT, you are effectively casting your own veil upon your consciousness, and limiting yourself from experiencing the totality of who you really are. The subconscious mind responds positively to "NOT". Thus the more you declare yourself to NOT be something, the more that your subconscious draws experiences to you which prove you to be a hypocrite.
There is an old spiritual teaching which sums up the course of human development in three stages: 1. I AM THIS. 2. I AM THAT. 3. I AM.
When "NOT" enters into the equation, there is surely trouble to follow.
(05-20-2012, 05:30 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]The reason for this is because it is essentially a lie to yourself to act as if you are "one thing" but not "another thing". By saying I AM THIS, NOT THAT, you are effectively casting your own veil upon your consciousness, and limiting yourself from experiencing the totality of who you really are. The subconscious mind responds positively to "NOT". Thus the more you declare yourself to NOT be something, the more that your subconscious draws experiences to you which prove you to be a hypocrite.
There is an old spiritual teaching which sums up the course of human development in three stages: 1. I AM THIS. 2. I AM THAT. 3. I AM.
Liked this. Thanks Tenet!
(05-20-2012, 05:30 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]I would advise against the wisdom of making public declarations where you swear off drugs and alcohol "forevermore".
All theory aside, practice proves that these kinds of public declarations are very powerfull at causing change. If someone states with full conviction in public that he's done with something. That makes it more real to that person.. It makes the choice more likely to become permanent.
Quote:What I have experienced this leads to is for your subconscious mind to begin a process which eventually results in the attracting of a circumstance that, on the surface, appears as a "test".
Any change leads to this process. Whether or not the choice is made out loud is irrelevant, any change intended by the individual will result in the attraction of that test...
And this is good. This test is what we should strive for and prepare for, this test is the key to change. This test is when we say "YES" to the change. Before the test all we've said was "I WANT"...
The test is to be desired the test is how you change. If you avoid the test forever you may fail when you advertantly encounter it. But if you strive to get the test at your own term and time the chance to success is enormous, and this is what causes a change of habits in the long run.
Quote:Again paradoxically, whether or not the test is "passed" or "failed", the outcome is to further embed yourself in the very pattern from which you would like to transcend.
Not really, failing means you return to the old pattern without embedding yourself deeper. In fact it has been demonstrated that quitting an addiction is a learned process. If you've failed to quit 10 times, then by no means you should give up, the 11'th time is actually easier.
This means that even failing to kick a habbit releases us from this habit in the long run. We just have to keep at it a little longer that's all...
I am aware of the problem of Not and the subconscious.. However, this works on a very simple level, by deciding you're done with something, deciding that you're something new does not mean you implicitly say NOT to the subconscious.
If you repeat "I do not need weed" 100 times in a row there is a good chance you end up craving a joint. That is true. But if you say "I am done with it, I am free" 100 times there's a good chance you end up happy and relieved and far far away from desiring a joint...
The theory about being everything, applied to kicking a habit is the same as the theory of being everywhere applied to public transport... If the goal is to cause change in your 3d organism. The realization that 3d self is part of a larger higher self is helpfull, but this in itself will not cause any change.
Being all does not mean you're everything in the here and now or should be... I am not an abuser, I am not STS, I am someone who lives with and in support of people. My basic attitude is love. These are clear choices about who I am and thus also define who I am not. The reason is that I intend to be something in 3d. And to be something in 3d I must also define what I am not...
The fact that I am all that is does not contradict this. A healthy organism requires that it's parts do their individual functions... There's a problem in people when their different bodies do not all function properly.
There are animalistic people who have no clue about reason or spirituality they live simply in the now and their basic motivators are consumption and instinctual or emotional triggers. There are those who live in the reason they starve their animal selves and have no sense of spirituality these people are motivated by intellectual ideas of what is right and what is wrong. Logic dictates their actions not feelings or spirituality. And then there are those who live fully in the spiritual, they starve their animal and mind bodies. They're very angelic... but almost pointless in life, they need a dose of reality injected into them and invariably get into trouble.
These are just three of endless variations of people.. The point I am making is that you should obey your instincts, follow your hormones. Tempered by your mind, use rational thought to get from a to b.. And temper this with your soul, so that A and B are goals that elevate your soul...
Sometimes this means you say "I am this... Not that..."
If you use drugs you feed your animal body. The mind rationalizes that there are spiritual teachings in it. And the spirit will feed you spiritual teachings. But the mind follows the body and the spirit does it's own thing. It is better to have the body follow the mind and have that follow the spirit.
(05-21-2012, 07:14 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]This means that even failing to kick a habbit releases us from this habit in the long run. We just have to keep at it a little longer that's all...
Well, yes, you are right. But then, in knowing that the evidence demonstrates that letting go of an addiction is a process which typically takes many attempts, what would be the value in framing it as a "once-and-for-all" type event?
Quote:I am aware of the problem of Not and the subconscious.. However, this works on a very simple level, by deciding you're done with something, deciding that you're something new does not mean you implicitly say NOT to the subconscious.
You are right, one doesn't necessarily imply the other. Still I would say, it often does. If for nothing else because humanity has been entrained to think in this way.
Quote:If you repeat "I do not need weed" 100 times in a row there is a good chance you end up craving a joint. That is true. But if you say "I am done with it, I am free" 100 times there's a good chance you end up happy and relieved and far far away from desiring a joint...
Possibly. I see your point, but I will stand with the idea that, if one needs to "swear off" a substance "forever", then they are not free from it. To be free from an addiction would be more like.. "Hmm I am noticing the desire to smoke a joint. But I am also noticing neither a grasping nor an aversion to that particular desire. That is all." It is in the space between desire and action, that the freedom is found. Addictive patterns, once acquired, are hard-wired into the brain. Thus, the desire to engage in them will never truly go away, so long as one is still using said brain. This is to be anticipated, if one wishes to be successful at kicking a habit.
Quote:Sometimes this means you say "I am this... Not that..."
One could simply say "I am this..." What is the value in adding "Not that..."?
Quote:If you use drugs you feed your animal body.
... and so you are saying there is something inherently "wrong" with that? One could say the same about food, or sex, or a warm bath. Or any number or herbal teas and preparations. I never was able to follow the logic which sets one single herb aside, out of thousands and thousands that humans regularly ingest, and make it inherently "wrong".
(05-21-2012, 07:14 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If you use drugs you feed your animal body. The mind rationalizes that there are spiritual teachings in it. And the spirit will feed you spiritual teachings. But the mind follows the body and the spirit does it's own thing. It is better to have the body follow the mind and have that follow the spirit.
I totally agree with this. Very perceptive way of putting it.
One can move away from right and wrong if one likes, but I believe one will eventually have to learn to access higher dimensions by
training the conscious mind, not using drugs to neutralize it so that you can access the subconscious directly.
At a previous stage in human evolution we did have greater access to the subconscious; we lived in it and the lines between the material world and the other side were less pronounced. But we were like children who still needed parents to guide us; we lived almost instinctually with Priest leaders and ETs, etc. that intervened in our affairs (proof of this is in the myths).
Then we EVOLVED the conscious mind--a great evolutionary step for us. But we haven't mastered it yet. Very few have
conscious control of anything--we are learning to understand our emotions, but I think the emotions are often winning and batting us around like the wind pushes a boat drifting on the ocean. The conscious mind is the oar that we consciously apply to the water to direct ourselves. Yes, it might be pretty and even uplifting to just lie on your back in your boat, looking at the sky and feeling the gentle waves beneath you...but if you don't get to land you will starve or die of thirst (and you might encounter a "storm" on your trip...). You are out of your element. So you are when you throw yourself into the lower astral using drugs.
Your conscious mind is your friend and will help you navigate the way. It only SEEMS freeing to push it aside.
Now, I'm not talking about "dominance", I'm talking about choice--your ability to choose and act is the kind of "control" I mean.
Further...
1) Drugs are illegal in our country at this time--render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. It won't kill you not to fuel the social problems created by the demand for drugs--if you buy drugs,
You are complicit in all that the drug trafficking brings: the crime, the mules (including some children), etc. Don't blame the government for that--prohibition was repealed, and people can create change in drug laws so that we can tax the heck out of them like cigarettes to fund social programs that help people.
Or you could just rationalize a lack of involvement by saying that the NWO is making too much money on illegal drugs and will never let them be legal...so what's your best move to thwart those who would abuse and dominate you by offering drugs? Don't take them. Did anyone ever read Brave New World? You can either have a 1984-esque dominance where everything is taken from you, or, and this is much easier, you can give people everything they want and they will let you dominate them.
If we want to create a better society then we need to "vote" with our money and habits. This is one of the reasons I also don't eat meat.
2) To those who would like to believe they had a spiritual awakening under the influence: You were simply at a point when
you were ready for that experience--with or without the drugs. Give
yourselves a little more credit!
3) Like attracts like...When people die in addictions, and can no longer feed their habits, they can become earthbound spirits until the desire for the drug, sex, alcohol (probably sugar too) is burned out of them because they no longer have a body through which to experience their addictions...Guess what that means for the recreational drug user...Yep, you got it. You will attract them--and as Aaron said, they may not have your best interests in mind...
In any case, that concludes my rant. However, the One Infinite Creator gave us all the faculty of Choice. May you all make the choices that most aide and uplift you, even if they are different from the ones I would make
(05-21-2012, 11:54 AM)abstrktion Wrote: [ -> ]1) Drugs are illegal in our country at this time--render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's. It won't kill you not to fuel the social problems created by the demand for drugs--if you buy drugs, You are complicit in all that the drug trafficking brings: the crime, the mules (including some children), etc. Don't blame the government for that--prohibition was repealed, and people can create change in drug laws so that we can tax the heck out of them like cigarettes to fund social programs that help people.
Oh, but most drugs aren't illegal. They are actually heavily supported and encouraged by the government as well as society! They are called "prescription drugs" and millions upon millions of people use these on a daily basis in order to numb themselves out. WAY more people use these kinds of drugs, than illegal drugs.
I see your point about using the system to decriminalize certain drugs, and to tax them, etc. Problem is that most people subscribe to the circular reasoning which says if marijuana is illegal, that makes it "bad", therefore it is "bad" to make marijuana legal. Meanwhile, let me pop a Xanax and a Vicodin or two, because they are legal, and because they are legal they are good, and besides, my insurance company will pay for it. Oh, you don't have insurance, and can't afford to pay for these prescription drugs out-of-pocket? Well gee that's too bad, but it still doesn't justify you smoking a joint to relieve your intractable pain, because marijuana is illegal and that makes it bad. Thus, you should spend years or decades in prison for possession of it, because that is what the law says, and since the law says it, that makes it right... and so on...
But anyway, I am curious. It would seem to me, by your logic, that anybody who takes prescription drugs is complicit in all those sketchy shenanigans that the business of Big Pharma brings with it. Yes?
Also- one need not purchase their marijuana from a supply chain which includes narcoterrorists and that sort of ilk.
Otherwise- I really liked your post! Very insightful! And for what it's worth, I didn't perceive it at all to be a "rant".
(05-21-2012, 11:49 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Well, yes, you are right. But then, in knowing that the evidence demonstrates that letting go of an addiction is a process which typically takes many attempts, what would be the value in framing it as a "once-and-for-all" type event?
It's like you say... It's only
framing it as a once-and-for-all event. This psychological reality empirically proves to work best.
Framing it as not really quitting just taking a short break and then extending the break indefinately may work for some. I know someone who quit smoking cigarettes like that. She kept a packet in her purse 2 years after she quit she just had to believe she could start whenever she felt she needed it or she'd panic and run for the nearest cigarette. But I think this is more the exception than the rule.
Quote:Quote:If you repeat "I do not need weed" 100 times in a row there is a good chance you end up craving a joint. That is true. But if you say "I am done with it, I am free" 100 times there's a good chance you end up happy and relieved and far far away from desiring a joint...
Possibly. I see your point, but I will stand with the idea that, if one needs to "swear off" a substance "forever", then they are not free from it.
I think that if you decide that you need to quit using it, you've already come to the conclusion you are not free of it... Tonight I walked behind a guy on the street who lit a joint. I am definately not free from it now and I quit smoking over a year ago.
I'm not rationally telling you I'll never smoke again. I really don't know that. But I am telling my animal that we'll never smoke again. It's best to dash all hopes for a return when you kick a lover out of your life..
Quote: To be free from an addiction would be more like.. "Hmm I am noticing the desire to smoke a joint. But I am also noticing neither a grasping nor an aversion to that particular desire. That is all." It is in the space between desire and action, that the freedom is found. Addictive patterns, once acquired, are hard-wired into the brain. Thus, the desire to engage in them will never truly go away, so long as one is still using said brain. This is to be anticipated, if one wishes to be successful at kicking a habit.
I do agree. I'm simply looking at it from the perspective of someone who concluded that the idea of being free from a substance that is intrinsically unhealthy (if only for the lungs) could only mean you won't use it. The pleasure you expect to gain from it means you are not completely free..
Free enough maybe.. But at what point do we go from being free to telling ourselves that we are free?
Quote:Quote:Sometimes this means you say "I am this... Not that..."
One could simply say "I am this..." What is the value in adding "Not that..."?
I simply meant to say that any statement "I am this" also implies it's opposite.
Quote:Quote:If you use drugs you feed your animal body.
... and so you are saying there is something inherently "wrong" with that? One could say the same about food, or sex, or a warm bath. Or any number or herbal teas and preparations. I never was able to follow the logic which sets one single herb aside, out of thousands and thousands that humans regularly ingest, and make it inherently "wrong".
I don't call it inherently wrong. You took my remark out of it's context. This is the whole quote
Quote:If you use drugs you feed your animal body. The mind rationalizes that there are spiritual teachings in it. And the spirit will feed you spiritual teachings. But the mind follows the body and the spirit does it's own thing. It is better to have the body follow the mind and have that follow the spirit.
My point is that when the mind follows the body and the spirit has become disconnected you're essentially addicted into a behavior that has no merit. As long as your animal is obedient to your mind and your spirit rules them both. Then you can inject yourself with heroine and not be addicted.
Everything in the world is like a drug, it is an external button that when you push it causes a change in your state. If you start pushing buttons as a reflex when your mind tells you not to and your spirit has become lost... Then you're on the wrong track.
@abstrktion
Weed is not illegal in my country. And even if it was you should ask yourself if the user is responsible for the related crime. They did not criminalize it, in fact if they had their way and things would be legalized the US would suddenly have a whole lot less crime. But that's truly a side track since you can replace cannabis with alcohol or nicotine and have the same discussion.
You touch on something that I think is a very good input about the spiritual side of drug use.
abstrktion Wrote:One can move away from right and wrong if one likes, but I believe one will eventually have to learn to access higher dimensions by training the conscious mind, not using drugs to neutralize it so that you can access the subconscious directly.
I thought a lot about what the spiritual value of cannabis and other drugs were. I have to say I have had extreme spiritual experiences under the influence of cannabis. I've also had extremely stupidly lame experiences. Where I simply threw away time and reduced my ability to function properly. I also didn't have to fix some problems because being high already took those problems away.
So I guess it does access advanced spiritual experiences. And I think those are good for us. So smoking a little at some point in life might be good for spiritual development for some of us. Smoking a lot doesn't increase the spiritual gain. It just makes you stupid.
Not a lot of stupid, despite smoking 3 to 4 joints per day I finished a university, got a job that requires me to think for a living got myself a house and found a girl to share that with me. I just sometimes wonder where I'd be if I wasn't a little stupid much of that time...
If I was to pile a bunch of leaves and dry grass in the middle of the lawn, light it on fire and tell you that you could have a spiritually enlightening experience if you would place your head over it and inhale the smoke, what would you tell me?
(05-21-2012, 11:54 AM)abstrktion Wrote: [ -> ]At a previous stage in human evolution we did have greater access to the subconscious; we lived in it and the lines between the material world and the other side were less pronounced. But we were like children who still needed parents to guide us; we lived almost instinctually with Priest leaders and ETs, etc. that intervened in our affairs (proof of this is in the myths).
Then we EVOLVED the conscious mind--a great evolutionary step for us. But we haven't mastered it yet. Very few have conscious control of anything--we are learning to understand our emotions, but I think the emotions are often winning and batting us around like the wind pushes a boat drifting on the ocean. The conscious mind is the oar that we consciously apply to the water to direct ourselves. Yes, it might be pretty and even uplifting to just lie on your back in your boat, looking at the sky and feeling the gentle waves beneath you...but if you don't get to land you will starve or die of thirst (and you might encounter a "storm" on your trip...). You are out of your element. So you are when you throw yourself into the lower astral using drugs.
Thank you for this information. It makes things clearer with me. I just had an intense awakening experience, and at the end of it I felt like a child without direction. It's good to hear that the conscious mind was evolved. I definitely encountered a storm these last couple of weeks. It's going to take some work to get back to normal, but I appreciate your insight.
(05-21-2012, 12:15 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, but most drugs aren't illegal. They are actually heavily supported and encouraged by the government as well as society! They are called "prescription drugs" and millions upon millions of people use these on a daily basis in order to numb themselves out. WAY more people use these kinds of drugs, than illegal drugs.
I wish I didn't need to be on my pharmaceuticals. Without them I find it difficult to stay grounded, and just went through a storm of an experience till I was able to get the Risperdal in me to ground me back into reality. But it makes me sleepy. That's the bad side effect of them. I'm on about 7 different meds now. It's crazy.
(05-21-2012, 07:14 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]If you use drugs you feed your animal body. The mind rationalizes that there are spiritual teachings in it.And the spirit will feed you spiritual teachings. But the mind follows the body and the spirit does it's own thing. It is better to have the body follow the mind and have that follow the spirit.
One must come to realize the vibratory nature of consciousness and that molecular technology is merely externalized frequency programs that may be uploaded into one's database of consciousness. The mind will rationalize things however it will, as it is one's beliefs, intents, perspectives, and will which determine one's subsequent experiences. If one partakes in consciousness-altering technologies as a means of recreation, the experience will be that of leisure. If an escape from a problem is sought, then one will find themselves in a potentially detrimental position of running away from onesself. If it is answers which are sought, then answers and questions will be provided. If divine communion is what one believes will be facilitated from ingestion of molecular technology, if one knows and believes that such is 100% possible and within one's grasp, if one intends this to be the primary focus of one's psychonautical immersions, if this experience is focused upon and willed from the very depths of one's being, then it shall be so.
However, to dismiss any potential spiritual gnosis ascertained from the usage of natural sacraments as being a figment of the mind is to deny the countless instances of states of mysticism experienced by many, to deny the effective and documented work of all shamans and sages whose source of faith, knowledge and power directly correlate with the proper utilization of these tools and to deny a core truth that human life itself is a vast spiritual teaching. These sacraments which predate human existence and have proven invaluable to dozens of ancient cultures and civilizations which thrived and flourished, which developed such ineffable connections with nature and the divine, from their close relationships with these plant teachers, are those tools which may effectuate liberation and true sight.
One's perceptions and conceptions must not be restricted by and to the confines of this illusion when seeking to attain evolution and growth. It is obvious that there lingers a semblance of conditioning in some minds as it pertains to the matter of drugs thanks to the tarnishing campaign waged against man to prevent him from coming into possession of illuminating knowledge. Western civilization has associated the topic of drugs with a troublesome negative stigma that results in the demonization and dismissal of any who advocate its benefits as an addict, or deranged, or 'not in their right mind', and instead espouse consumption and exposure to toxins as more socially acceptable. Woe to those who would rather numb the mind, dull the senses, and taint the sacred altar of the self which the One has manifested rather than seek more visceral manners of honoring that divine essence within and which is all things.
Gemini Wolf, I hope that you successfully wean off those pharmaceutical drugs in time. Much of the 'medication' prescribed by doctors are done so, in plenty of cases, with profit as the motivating factor, and the medications themselves are not without risk and a plethora of side effects. Natural entheogens are far safer than any pharmaceutical drug, any legal vice (e.g. alcohol, cigarettes sprayed with hundreds of poisonous additives) and certainly far more spiritually beneficial. This is not to say that I am recommending you to use them instead, but merely to make the contrast and highlight the latent detriments of most pharmaceutical medicine. For instance, those anti-depressant commercials that state "Side effects may include: DEPRESSION, SUICIDAL IDEATION", as if one couldn't get more ironic and self-defeating.
Returning to the addressing of Ali's quote above, you seem to be placing some sort of division on spiritual lessons and implying that the body and mind have no role in this. The body is the physical vehicle for the consciousness, the mind its control panel, and one's field of consciousness both permeates the vehicle, operates the control panel, and manifests itself as one's entire surroundings in reality. One's body or mind is not the spirit or the consciousness. These are elements which one's individualized portion of consciousness has manifested in order to learn in this illusion, thus giving credence to the notion that the Self or true consciousness may be taught by the manifested temporary identity and finite version of Self.
I would like to add also a few more points: moderation is key, responsibility and safety are primary and extremely crucial, addiction of any sort must be prevented from arising and if this becomes difficult to suppress discontinuation of involvement with the object which perpetuated the addiction is suggested, and there is an tremendous difference and distinction that must be made between drugs which are dead-end angels within themselves and substances which will serve to open one's horizon every time, that allows for substantial growth and evolution, that provides only benefits with little detriment, and that these notions are secondary to the first cause and sole determining factor of all these facets, which is one's self, the stance one holds and the approach one takes.