Bring4th

Does it say anything about a person's character or perhaps even polarity when you look at the number of likes given compared to the number of likes received?

You'd think that a supportive person would give at least as many likes as they could receive.

Is it that people who don't give likes out are more critical or don't read other posts as much as they like posting?

I know a great post would receive many likes, which would affect the ratio, but you can also look at the total number of posts.

These questions are of a light-hearted nature and popped into my mind since the posts all show how many likes are given and received. What significance, if any, do you give to those stats?

From my experience on this forum, I would say that it's not related. Some people simply do not make use of the like button, unless they stumble upon a post that is truly remarkable to them.

Personally, I often press the like button just to send love, whether I align with the content of the post or not.

the biggest problem with LIKES is that people mis-interpret what a 'Like' means.

some people think:

like = endorsement

but I will like posts that I disagree with:

I will like

* something well written
* something that is heartfelt
* something highly unusual
* something really sad.

if you see me 'liking', it doesn't mean I agree with you!!

- -

just for jokes:

Quote:93.3 Ra: Another method of viewing polarities might involve the concept of radiation/absorption. That which is positive is radiant; that which is negative is absorbent.

Quote:80.18 Questioner: Then would this process of radiation or absorption, since we have what I would call a flux or flux rate, be the measure of the adept?

Ra: I am Ra. This may be seen to be a reasonably adequate statement.

and don't forget, the like system is relatively new (12 months?). The so-called stats for veteran users will be skewed somewhat.

as always, numbers can deceive as well as enlighten.

Cool. I was just really wondering why the like system is there.

---

I do "Like" the like system though.

I may totally discontinue the use of the like button. If I forget to press the button in a discussion, the poster may feel left out. I don't like that!

(05-20-2012, 12:30 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I will like posts that I disagree with:

I will like

* something well written
* something that is heartfelt
* something highly unusual
* something really sad.

if you see me 'liking', it doesn't mean I agree with you!!

I sometimes do that too, and I agree that this is a fine list of reasons to like a post. To me, 'like' means I appreciate the contribution to the discussion, not necessarily that I agree with every point made in that post.

Although, I think most people will probably interpret a 'like' to mean agreement. So sometimes when I really do like the person's participation, they can misinterpret the 'like' to mean agreement on this or that point.

Likes can be used to provide support, but they can also be used to divide. I've seen people criticize others and their mean-spirited post gets the most likes of any in the discussion, and it can end up being a way to gang up on one unpopular person. I saw that happen a lot when unity100 was posting. Someone would say something critical of him and that comment would set the record for the most likes!

What I found particularly disturbing is when a member pm'ed me to say that they often 'liked' the posts of their favorite selected people, regardless of what the post said. They something like "I sometimes 'like' the post of certain people without even reading those posts, because I like that person."

I found this rather appalling, because such use of the 'like' function can end up being a tool to separate and divide into cliques.

As moderator, I noticed this happening a lot. Cliques would form and I could always count on the same cluster of people liking the posts that criticized another cluster of people.

I know that there is also a lot of good in having the like feature, but I'm not sure whether the positive outweighs the negative.

When we first implemented the feature, we were concerned about this very thing; it being used to divide into cliques. After much discussion, we finally agreed to it based on the idea that the feature would allow lurkers to have more say. The suggestion was offered that many people might be shy about posting, but the like button could provide them a way to contribute, without posting.

I don't think that has happened all that much, though. What I've observed is that the vast majority of the likes are made by the most active members. So the anticipated benefit of more lurkers participating simply didn't materialize.

Instead, it has ended up being a tool for supporting one 'side' over the other.

Overall, I find it divisive.

(05-20-2012, 12:30 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]and don't forget, the like system is relatively new (12 months?). The so-called stats for veteran users will be skewed somewhat.

Good point.

(05-20-2012, 12:30 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]as always, numbers can deceive as well as enlighten.

Indeed.

(05-20-2012, 01:21 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]I saw that happen a lot when unity100 was posting. Someone would say something critical of him and that comment would set the record for the most likes!

lol.

(05-20-2012, 01:21 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]As moderator, I noticed this happening a lot. Cliques would form and I could always count on the same cluster of people liking the posts that criticized another cluster of people.

I know that there is also a lot of good in having the like feature, but I'm not sure whether the positive outweighs the negative.

When we first implemented the feature, we were concerned about this very thing; it being used to divide into cliques. After much discussion, we finally agreed to it based on the idea that the feature would allow lurkers to have more say. The suggestion was offered that many people might be shy about posting, but the like button could provide them a way to contribute, without posting.

Instead, it has ended up being a tool for supporting one 'side' over the other.

Overall, I find it divisive.

a parallel could be found in the system of democracy, and counting 'votes'. While it seems as though one is advocating equality (one vote=one voice), you end up dividing society down the middle, and giving labels to people.

for the longest time, I didn't realise that you could click the little 'check box' and see the names of people who liked a particular post. I would have preferred to keep my anonymity lol.

Well, I've made my decision. I'm not using the like button anymore.

What I would like is a button that just says "<username> was here <datetime>" (Valtor was here 2012-05-20) or something like that. Just to confirm that we read the post. This way you don't always have to reply and the poster knows that you've read their post and gave notice.

(05-20-2012, 01:41 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]a parallel could be found in the system of democracy, and counting 'votes'. While it seems as though one is advocating equality (one vote=one voice), you end up dividing society down the middle, and giving labels to people.

Well anything can be construed as 'divisive' but whether that's a bad thing or not, is subject to debate. We're in the density of Choice. In order to choose A, we decline B. That's a whole 'nother topic!

I wouldn't say voting is inherently divisive. It's the labels attached to the voting that could be divisive. I also think too much fuss is made about 'divisiveness' while other equally important issues (like Choice) are ignored. (But again...that's a whole 'nother topic!)

(05-20-2012, 01:41 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]for the longest time, I didn't realise that you could click the little 'check box' and see the names of people who liked a particular post. I would have preferred to keep my anonymity lol.

Yeah me too. Maybe the solution is to keep the like button, but remove the details. (Assuming there's a way to do that.) Although, that could present its own problems. Let's say Person A criticizes Person B (not their views but personally) and 7 people like that post. Person B then agonizes over "who in the community thinks I'm an idiot or a scumbag."

Another negative about the like button is when someone composes a particularly well-thought-out post and then gets only 1 like, or maybe none. It's kinda deflating.

Then along comes some inane comment (or even a jab) and it gets 7 likes.

The strongest argument made in favor of the like button was so that lurkers could have their voices heard. In practice, that didn't turn out to be the case, because lurkers don't use the like button much anyway.

All things considered, I think we oughtta nuke it.

(05-20-2012, 02:55 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]...
All things considered, I think we oughtta nuke it.

I agree. Maybe, a private message could be sent to all users inviting them to go to a poll thread for a final decision.

I like the like button.

Sometimes I need a love button.

(05-20-2012, 04:21 PM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]I like the like button.

Sometimes I need a love button.

(05-20-2012, 04:21 PM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]I like the like button.

Sometimes I need a love button.

Now this is a REALLY good idea! Who knows how to make a love button?

(05-20-2012, 07:07 PM)abstrktion Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-20-2012, 04:21 PM)Ruth Wrote: [ -> ]I like the like button.

Sometimes I need a love button.

Now this is a REALLY good idea! Who knows how to make a love button?

I don't know how to make one, but I know where to find it ! Actually, since I'm a computer programmer, I could probably make one.

I agree. Add a Love button!

In all fairness I feel that there should be a 'don't like' button just to balance things.
It was probably the illuminaughty that thought of the 'like' concept, just way to easy to 'handle' particular posters opinions.
Words carry all vibrations.

Monica, I guess you would call me a 'lurker', one who prefers to read the posts and absorb. I very seldom post, maybe it's because everything is so complex and fluid, or I just prefer not to. I like the like button as it gives me the opportunity to participate, as you mentioned as a reason to include it. I'm a little confused about the term lurker though, it makes me feel somewhat unwelcome, I am sure it's not intended but maybe it could be discussed what everyones obligations are that join this forum.
love/light Ronal

I use the like button to give something back for what ever reason I perceive/feel. And the reasons are many and varied as we all have our own understandings of truths.
And totally a tool to discipline the ego

To me the word "lurker" has a low feeling to it. As I have been on quite a few forums before, I have seen posts about "active" people being at unease, over people who do not post or open topics. The feeling I got is that "active" members see the "invisible" people as takers, without giving anything back. I don't think I have seen it happen here yet, except in what I saw as innocent puns. The word lurker, feels as something to stereotype those individuals as "negative". But its how a person perceives the word, if he feels blockage or flow while saying/hearing it. This is my own distortion of this, as is all what I have wrote.
Wanted to share my thoughts, though its off topic me thinks.. PLEASE not the hug pit again, I am sovvy (a little)!!

(05-21-2012, 06:25 PM)RonAl Wrote: [ -> ]Monica, I guess you would call me a 'lurker', one who prefers to read the posts and absorb. I very seldom post, maybe it's because everything is so complex and fluid, or I just prefer not to. I like the like button as it gives me the opportunity to participate, as you mentioned as a reason to include it. I'm a little confused about the term lurker though, it makes me feel somewhat unwelcome, I am sure it's not intended

It's just a term, used to define something. It was certainly never intended to make anyone feel unwelcome! You are absolutely always welcome, RonAl!!!

In forum lingo, lurker just means someone who chooses to read the forum but not actively post. There is no negativity intended.

But if you can suggest an alternative term, please do! Would you prefer 'inactive'? Although, that isn't really accurate, since reading the forum is still an activity. Inactive usually refers to someone who isn't even visiting the forum at all.

What term do you suggest we use?

(05-21-2012, 06:25 PM)RonAl Wrote: [ -> ]maybe it could be discussed what everyones obligations are that join this forum.
love/light Ronal

There are no obligations to joining the forum, other than adhering to the forum guidelines. It's perfectly fine to read the forum without posting anything.

It would help us, though, if we had a more acceptable term to distinguish that. I had thought lurker was the standard term used in cyberspace, and there wasn't any negative connotation. Again, please do suggest a more acceptable term.

I do like the "like" button! Although I think it would be pretty tough to extrapolate much info from the like-to-post ratios. As for myself, I use the "like" button for several different purposes. Sometimes it is because I agree with a post and sometimes it is when I don't agree, but thought it was thought-provoking. Other times it is simply because I wanted to acknowledge that I read a post, or that I thought it was funny.

Now that being said, I think there is some value to be found in noticing that very few of one's own posts get "liked", or that a particular post is absent of "likes" when one generally receives many of them. But, in the end, each of us can only find that value for ourselves.

---

LIKE MAH STATUS.


The Remix!

I think the "Like" button means different things to different people at different times. For some, this meaning also changes with the context of the post, topic, or thread. I have seen it used to divide, factionalize, and express passive aggressive animosity many times. Yet I have also seen it used to support, complement, and appreciate. Sometimes a like is a friendly pat on the back, and at others its a slap in the face. It's not inherently good or bad in and of itself, it's really up to how we use it. I find the "Like" button at Bring4th is a bit of a microcosm for 3D itself. It's very dualistic, subjective, and ultimately the polarity of its usage is determined by the intention and energy behind it. The intent in any given case of the usage of "Like" is of course is hidden, like so many things, behind the Veil, which complicates successful interpretation.

Given all these variables, I'm not sure what, if anything, can be extrapolated from the ratios of likes given to likes received. There could well be some value, it just doesn't feel personally useful to me.

I was opposed to the introduction of the "Like" button here from Day 1 and have never used it. Though I do recognize the inherent subjectivity of the topic and that it is often used positively, even under the best of circumstances it provides little meaningful information, precisely because it so subjective.

Given that observation, and combined with the many, many times I've seen it used as a tool of divisiveness and discord here, I do not feel it is a valuable addition to Bring4th, and I simply choose to opt-out of its usage. It certainly doesn't mean I don't agree with or am always critical of my fellow posters. It also doesn't mean I don't like to receive a "like". I don't need it, but I certainly don't mind when someone likes my posts -- I choose to see "likes" to my own posts in a positive light. If someone chooses to express their appreciation, or agreement, or whatever to me by using that button, then I am grateful for that and accept that kindness. It just doesn't feel right to me to use such a double-edged sword myself. I totally respect everyone's free will and right to use it as they see fit, I simply choose not to participate directly in something I don't find of value or agree with.

Now, as some here have suggested... give me a LOVE button, and I'll wear that thing out! If a LOVE button were ever implemented here, it wouldn't give us any more information than the "like" button does, but it would provide a convenient and simple way to express our love and appreciation for eachother. Having one more avenue of expression of love would have inherent value even if it doesn't give us any new "information". It also would have no ambiguity as to the intent -- to simply share love with Other-Selves.

That love button is a concept I really 'like'



Love to all

(05-22-2012, 03:21 PM)Pablísimo Wrote: [ -> ]Now, as some here have suggested... give me a LOVE button, and I'll wear that thing out! If a LOVE button were ever implemented here, it wouldn't give us any more information than the "like" button does, but it would provide a convenient and simple way to express our love and appreciation for eachother. Having one more avenue of expression of love would have inherent value even if it doesn't give us any new "information". It also would have no ambiguity as to the intent -- to simply share love with Other-Selves.

That love button is a concept I really 'like'

I love all that you said, Pab!

My concern, though, is that a LOVE button would just end up being used as like x 10...it could be a like button on steroids...and used to reinforce negative posts too, just like the like button is now.

We kinda already have the love button...it just has to be in a post: the

I read a lot of material that I like here. But, for whatever reason...I usually completely forget about the like button. I suppose its more a part of the online Social media thing that I really don't get.

Richard

(05-22-2012, 11:30 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-21-2012, 06:25 PM)RonAl Wrote: [ -> ]Monica, I guess you would call me a 'lurker', one who prefers to read the posts and absorb. I very seldom post, maybe it's because everything is so complex and fluid, or I just prefer not to. I like the like button as it gives me the opportunity to participate, as you mentioned as a reason to include it. I'm a little confused about the term lurker though, it makes me feel somewhat unwelcome, I am sure it's not intended

It's just a term, used to define something. It was certainly never intended to make anyone feel unwelcome! You are absolutely always welcome, RonAl!!!

In forum lingo, lurker just means someone who chooses to read the forum but not actively post. There is no negativity intended.

But if you can suggest an alternative term, please do! Would you prefer 'inactive'? Although, that isn't really accurate, since reading the forum is still an activity. Inactive usually refers to someone who isn't even visiting the forum at all.

What term do you suggest we use?

(05-21-2012, 06:25 PM)RonAl Wrote: [ -> ]maybe it could be discussed what everyones obligations are that join this forum.
love/light Ronal

There are no obligations to joining the forum, other than adhering to the forum guidelines. It's perfectly fine to read the forum without posting anything.

It would help us, though, if we had a more acceptable term to distinguish that. I had thought lurker was the standard term used in cyberspace, and there wasn't any negative connotation. Again, please do suggest a more acceptable term.

As an alternate term, how about simply "silent student" or "quiet student"?

Tenet Nosce, I that the "Like My Status" remixer was toasting us with a Shiner Bock!

How about the term 'reader' instead of 'lurker'

I must say that "lurker" is almost a sort of endearing term to me. I don't view it as derogatory at all! But some other terms which come to mind are: sniffers, tasters, sippers, samplers, snackers, tappers, toe-dippers, and watchers. Or, collectively speaking, I also like "The Peanut Gallery."

How can you know the intent of a person giving the like?
how can you say it is divisive?
Isn't it more that maybe you didn't agree with the message conveyed in the post, and thusly you might feel uncomfortable someone else expressing a like for this post?
I think it belongs to everyone's free will to press the like button, or not. Why speculate on any kind of motivation behind it?

(05-22-2012, 03:55 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]My concern, though, is that a LOVE button would just end up being used as like x 10...it could be a like button on steroids...and used to reinforce negative posts too, just like the like button is now.

Hmm.. I hadn't thought of it from that angle. Good point!

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]How can you know the intent of a person giving the like?

Well, I don't think we can. I know I certainly can't know the intent, and really don't think anyone else can with certainty unless they pushed the button directly.

This was actually the central point in my post. It's totally subjective, and it is not possible to know the intent -- positive, negative, or neutral -- behind it. Therefore I question the overall value in terms of additional information or communication.

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]how can you say it is divisive?

In my totally subjective perception, I've seen it used divisively. Also, in my totally subjective perception, I've seen it used very harmoniously too. But I can't really know in any particular case... these are just impressions I've distilled from my experience, filtered through my personal distortions.

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]Isn't it more that maybe you didn't agree with the message conveyed in the post, and thusly you might feel uncomfortable someone else expressing a like for this post?

Sure, that's possible. Could be indeed! That may even be someone else's totally subjective perception filtered through their own personal distortions. It's just not how I see it, thus again we encounter the nature of subjectivity.

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]I think it belongs to everyone's free will to press the like button, or not.

I agree completely with you. I said exactly the same thing in my post -- it really is everyone's free will to press that button in any way they see fit. I was just expressing an opinion on the relative value and responding to the OP's question about what can be inferred from the ratios. The other posters here have contributed their own subjective views of how they look at the Like button. Clearly the opinions are not homogenous!

As an aside, discussing the nature of subjectivity with a group of people who try so hard to be objective is a very interesting exercise, to say the least. I wonder if that's one of the reasons why the social memory complex doesn't form until 4D. Perhaps the inherent subjectivity in 3D combined with the Veil makes it too difficult to achieve the sort of harmony necessary for an SMC.

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]Why speculate on any kind of motivation behind it?

You're right again. There's probably no purpose in speculating on those motivations, really. In my view, it's impossible to extrapolate meaning consistently from the like button anyway -- which is sort of why I mentioned all that I did.

I personally just choose to see the Creator in everyone around me to the best of my ability. I mostly just read this forum, but occasionally comment on some little tidbit here or there.

Your deeper point is very good though, and I thank you for that reminder. It's best not to speculate on the motivations of Other-selves. I try to keep my eyes wide open, but assume positive intent. I tend to look at the fine folks posting here, yourself included, as family. Sure sometimes there are disagreements, and I don't always LIKE everything I read, but overall I choose to see you all through the eyes of love.

Namaste, Freund.

Love to all

(05-23-2012, 03:01 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]How can you know the intent of a person giving the like?
how can you say it is divisive?
Isn't it more that maybe you didn't agree with the message conveyed in the post, and thusly you might feel uncomfortable someone else expressing a like for this post?
I think it belongs to everyone's free will to press the like button, or not. Why speculate on any kind of motivation behind it?

I agree with all that Pablisimo said in answer to your questions, and add this:

My only issue with the like button is when people use it not to like, but to dislike.

What I mean by that is when someone says something harsh, critical, or even downright nasty about someone, and that negative post gets the most likes of any post in the whole thread.

That is divisive. There's no speculation here. It's blatant. It's negative, it's divisive, it's hurtful, and it's contrary to the original intention of the like button. It's using something that was intended to be positive and uplifting, to tear someone down.

I've seen this happen many, many, many times here at B4. And what's interesting is that it's almost always the same clusters of people. A year or so ago, there was a certain cluster of people who 'liked' negative posts directed at a certain individual. Later, a different cluster of people did the same thing, directed at a different individual. And then that same cluster of people did it towards yet another individual. So I've observed maybe 2 or 3 clusters of people using the like button in a negative way, towards maybe 5 or 6 particular people.

At one of these times, the term dog-pile was used. That sums it up. It's a subtle, sneaky way to ostracize.

I don't think this has any place in a community with such high values as Bring4th. I think the negative outweighs the positive. Of course, as with any tool, it's not the fault of the tool. It's just a tool. Like a knife intended to chop vegetables, being used to kill someone. It's not the fault of the knife; the fault is in how it's used. But as long as people are going to use something that was intended as an uplifting thing, in a way to hurt others, then at least we shouldn't make it easy for them by handing over the knife.