Bring4th

Perhaps I have not read up on the information presented by L/L and such, but is there any indication, from a relibable source such as Ra, that Heaven and Hell actually exist?

Do we only re-incarnate when we die or is there any time where we go to a Heaven or Hell, perhaps one created by Yahweh?

We seek within.

(06-03-2012, 02:10 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ].To my understanding when we die, we first go to the astral realm, the lower realms are supposed to be "hell-like", while the higher are supposed to be "heaven-like", and so on in to the 5th. There is an idea around that heaven and hell are side by side so that fits with this.

I'm just curious, where did you receive the information you know about Heaven and Hell? And under what circumstances does one go to either Heaven or Hell?

We seek within.

(06-03-2012, 02:35 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ]Umm, I'm trying to think where, if anywhere, I read about that idea... maybe it came from my own mind, which tends to happen with me a lot. It feels right though, so I trust it.

The same circumstances that lead to any abusing, cyclic experience here. Fill yourself with hate, anger, violence, etc, and you will create hell for yourself. These are just relative terms.

In all honesty, in my own view Heaven and Hell are poor analogies and monikers for the vast spectrum that is the Astral Realm.

Random question, but I just want to make something clear. Yahweh is the Christian religion's God, correct? Just curious.

We seek within.

(06-03-2012, 02:31 AM)Infinity Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-03-2012, 02:10 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ].To my understanding when we die, we first go to the astral realm, the lower realms are supposed to be "hell-like", while the higher are supposed to be "heaven-like", and so on in to the 5th. There is an idea around that heaven and hell are side by side so that fits with this.

I'm just curious, where did you receive the information you know about Heaven and Hell? And under what circumstances does one go to either Heaven or Hell?

Infinity, these things are mentioned in William Buhlmans or Robert Monroes books about Out of body travel... it works with "like attracts like" - depending on how your vibration is, you either go to the lower astral places, that can seem like hell, as the Eternal said, or to the higher places.
Since astral projection is similar to physical death (you leave your physical vehicle for a while) for me this presents tangible evidence.
I recommend these two authors for anyone who is interested in OBEs.
there is also a good book by C.W. Leadbeater, called "the astral plane".

There we go! Someone who knows that they're talking about.

(06-03-2012, 02:56 AM)Meerie Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-03-2012, 02:31 AM)Infinity Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-03-2012, 02:10 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ].To my understanding when we die, we first go to the astral realm, the lower realms are supposed to be "hell-like", while the higher are supposed to be "heaven-like", and so on in to the 5th. There is an idea around that heaven and hell are side by side so that fits with this.

I'm just curious, where did you receive the information you know about Heaven and Hell? And under what circumstances does one go to either Heaven or Hell?

Infinity, these things are mentioned in William Buhlmans or Robert Monroes books about Out of body travel... it works with "like attracts like" - depending on how your vibration is, you either go to the lower astral places, that can seem like hell, as the Eternal said, or to the higher places.
Since astral projection is similar to physical death (you leave your physical vehicle for a while) for me this presents tangible evidence.
I recommend these two authors for anyone who is interested in OBEs.
there is also a good book by C.W. Leadbeater, called "the astral plane".

Then when is the time that we re-incarnate after we die?

We seek within.

(06-03-2012, 03:07 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ]Well, that depends on where you're at, I suppose! When you think of "when" in this case, you can't really think in terms of length of linear time, there are no dates or set periods. The answer is more like, "When you are ready", or, if you are aware enough, you will not re-incarnate, if you so choose, and you will instead go on to other experiences beyond these bodily forms.

Interesting, thank you for taking time in replying to me on numerous occasions. I really appreciate that.

Any time! I like to answer questions, not because I expect to be right, but because questions make me think, aha!

(06-03-2012, 03:16 AM)TheEternal Wrote: [ -> ]Any time! I like to answer questions, not because I expect to be right, but because questions make me think, aha!

All is good, all is good.

I sense a deep consciousness in you, you are welcome to question me further any time, and perhaps I may even have some questions for you.

In Indian religions you can go to hell realms for karmic crimes, but the state temporary and the severity is directly proportional to the action.

It's not like the western concept of hell (Originally from the gospel of John, not present in the synoptic gospels of in Judaism) where one is eternally judged for the actions of one lifetime.

Here is what Ra says about Karma:

34.4 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?
Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

In other words, love is the savior.

(06-03-2012, 02:52 AM)Infinity Wrote: [ -> ]Random question, but I just want to make something clear. Yahweh is the Christian religion's God, correct? Just curious.

As I have come to understand it from the Ra material, Yahweh was a positive social memory complex of Confederation. They were Guardians of a race developed on Mars. Later, after the transition of marsians to this planet, negative entities started to answer the calls of those formerly being marsians, and thus, the positive Confederation entity, Yahweh, felt a need to change their name.

You can read more about it here:

http://lawofone.info/results.php?c=Earth...9s+Efforts

Infinity asked: "Random question, but I just want to make something clear. Yahweh is the Christian religion's God, correct? Just curious."

Ankh answered: "As I have come to understand it from the Ra material, Yahweh was a positive social memory complex of Confederation. They were Guardians of a race developed on Mars. Later, after the transition of marsians to this planet, negative entities started to answer the calls of those formerly being marsians, and thus, the positive Confederation entity, Yahweh, felt a need to change their name.

You can read more about it here:

http://lawofone.info/results.php?c=Earth...9s+Efforts

I say: That's fascinating (!), and how cyclic our history is.
75000 years ago, an entity (or many as one) named Yahweh was wandering about on Mars, to make genetic changes among "humanity." The Yahweh group was not successful, as the Orion group had other ideas.

Then Yahwah (after a name change) tried to spread a positive philosophy among humanity 3300 years ago on earth:

24.9 Questioner: Then Yahweh, in an attempt to correct what I might call a mistake (I know you don’t want to call it that), started 3300 years ago a positive philosophy. Were the Orion and Yahweh philosophies impressed telepathically, or were there other techniques used?

Ra: I am Ra. There were two other techniques used: one by the entity no longer called Yahweh, who still felt that if it could raise up entities which were superior to the negative forces, that these superior entities could spread the Law of One. Thus this entity, “Yod-Heh-Shin-Vau-Heh,” came among your people in form according to incarnate being and mated in the normal reproductive manner of your physical complexes, thus birthing a generation of much larger beings, these beings called “Anak.”

The other method used to greater effect later in the scenario, as you would call it, was the thought-form such as we often use among your peoples to suggest the mysterious or the sublime. You may be familiar with some of these appearances.

24.10 Questioner: Could you state some of those?

Ra: [Cough.] I am Ra. This is information which you may discover. However, we will briefly point the way by indicating the so-called wheel within a wheel and the cherubim with sleepless eye.


Well, this cyclic history still spins along with the sleepless cherubim, upon the wheel:

In The Old Testament, Moses is talking with the burning bush, and Moses asked: "Who are you?"
The response, written in ancient Hebrew was four letters: Yod Heh Vav Heh.
Compare that to Ra's new name for Yahweh: “Yod-Heh-Shin-Vau-Heh,”

Again, in ancient Hebrew: Those four letters are an obscure conjunction of the verb "to be." So the answer given to Moses has been understood to mean, "I am That which is, always was, and always shall be."

That answer has generated many different responses:
It's a pronouncement of eternity.
It created the I Am movement.
This Eternal One used a verb to call Itself "That."
If anyone's interested in an excellent book introduction to Kaballah, then I recommend "God is a Verb" by Rabbi David Cooper.
Ya Heh Vav Heh was phonetically mangled to create Jehova, a God many worship.
And those same four letters were phonetically "mangled (?)" to create Yahweh, a god no one worships, but which many incorrectly believe is the name of the Jewish God.

I also find this interesting because not only does Ra use the Hebrew alphabet, but also Ra ends his messages with Adonai, which is a Hebrew word for Lord.


And now to return to the actual reason for this thread, about Heaven and Hell:

TheEternal said: "In all honesty, in my own view Heaven and Hell are poor analogies and monikers for the vast spectrum that is the Astral Realm."

And I agree.

There is, or there isn't, a Heaven or Hell, unless of course you believe, in which case you may go to either.

Imagine a table covered with fresh fantastic food. The people sitting at the table are angry, pissed, upset, annoyed and hungry. Their arms are attached to the table with chains too short to feed themselves. They feel that they are in Hell.

Imagine a table covered with fresh fantastic food. The people sitting at the table are talking, laughing, enjoying themselves, and eating the food. Their arms are attached to the table with chains too short to feed themselves, but long enough to feed each other. They feel that they are in heaven.

(An Irving Berlin quote):
"Life is 10% what you make it, and 90% how you take it."

Theosophical literature is as good a place as any for a broad range of information about this topic. If you have the patience, a study of numerous Vedic texts will get you closer to the ancient teachings, and being more poetic, they provide a better basis for meditation on it. The Abrahamic texts, IMO, present a very one-sided view, albeit one that is probably very relevant to those practising those faiths.

If you'd like something more modern, very controversial, but intellectually stimulating, you could download this PDF:

http://52midnight.com/archive/WarInHeaven.pdf

(06-03-2012, 02:08 AM)Infinity Wrote: [ -> ]but is there any indication, from a relibable source such as Ra, that Heaven and Hell actually exist?

No. It is my understanding that heaven/hell occur in the time/space portions of 3rd density; specially among those who are biased by these concepts.

4D and 5D, both negative and positive, could also be considered hell and heaven/paradise by 3D perception.

But to answer the question more to the point I think: nobody created such places of heaven/hell to punish/reward the behaviour of 3D entities after death. Each entity is its own judge, and by simple law of resonance, how/what you vibrate makes up your experiential reality; whether in space/time or time/space, in any of the vibratory spectra (or densites) of the creation.

Quote:Do we only re-incarnate when we die or is there any time where we go to a Heaven or Hell, perhaps one created by Yahweh?

You could die now, spend the equivalent of what would be 1,000 Earth years reviewing your incarnation and planning the next in time/space; and then just reincarnate back again 2 minutes later in this space/time in another newly born human entity. Or... reincarnate in what would be considered a "past" time; say in Rome, as a legionnaire.

Time is of no concern in time/space. The whole reincarnation concept isn't really linear (or sequential). You could be Albert Einstein in the past and then be a homeless vagabond in New York city now in the 21st century. It is not as if you are "stacking up" reincarnations.

heaven and hell exists as a mental state.

ever been in an angry loop, when you couldn't stop thinking hateful/hurtful thoughts against someone? it just kept on looping, despite your attempts to get out? that is an inner hell.

ever been in an ecstatic state, when all things were smooth, and it was a glorious glorious moment in life. That is your heaven.

thought forms become realities, and we, as humans, try to find physical metaphors for these states of mind.

heaven and hell are most real; and most of us have been there.

One will find themselves in the environment of the corresponding vibration determined by one's particular vibrational make-up consisting of the various mental formations one holds, typically biases which seep into the subconscious mind which lead to the generation of the conscious mind's thoughts, which then act as the springboard for the manifestation of one's externalized experience in consciousness both through direct means of action and the quasi-indirect yet highly significant and decisive manner of the Law of Attraction in flux. There are no moments which are inherently positive or negative except for those in which our perceptions deem them so, and the more one allows the perceptual filter of either polarity to act as the underlying paradigm for experience then all subsequent experiences will convey elements or attributes which may be categorized into either polarity.

Experiences one may consider heavenly may be considered hellish to another. To the reclusive hermit or introverted meditant, a small and enclosed space may be the ideal and most 'heavenly' circumstance. To the claustrophobic individual, this same setting is viewed as 'hellish' or negative. Consider for a moment, that it is set to be a rainy day and you have happened to leave your umbrella on the seat of the bus you were just riding, have gotten off the bus and realized your perceived loss. To many, this loss would entail that the rest of the day will be "hell". And yet to particular others, this loss may be seen as being of benefit to whomsoever happens to discover the umbrella, and perhaps there is a chance that this discoverer of the umbrella had no umbrella of their own and would be subject to the rainy day even moreso than you would be, thus from this supposed loss and negative happening the transmutation of positivity occurred conceptually and perceptually. This personal loss managed to potentially be of service to another, and the alleged negativity that would have arisen would be a surface superficiality, reactionary, and dependent upon the egoic standpoint.

Conceptions of moments and experiences having a set innate polarity become superfluous when it is perceived that all moments are sustained by and within a being which knows only harmonious unity in all which is, that there is never a moment or circumstance when the Creator is not present, in essence which pervades and underlines all experiences, animates all forms and gives rise to all circumstance. There exists a mechanical and wholly impersonal precision in the crafting of the environment of an individuated consciousness best characterized as a boomerang effect on the dispersing of one's energetic vibrations. Fearful or hellish experience will befall the one who retains dreary and dark intent, and to the one who is situated in peace and harmony will all experiences which manifest be observed and approached calmly, resulting in the sustaining and conclusion of the experience with a tinge of Heaven.

Consider that the 'Kingdom of God' is in all of one's surroundings, as all of the creation. If you experience a negative aspect of this kingdom it is only reflective of any negativity present within your psyche, even if it is buried deep within the subconscious and manifests consciously in trace amounts. So, do literal places or more accurately environments generated by vibrational frequencies in either extremity of polarity in dimensions and realms beyond this one that appear very representative of what the human envisions Heaven or Hell to be like actually exist? That all depends upon you, for your inner reality is what gives rise to the outer.