Bring4th

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I first heard of Michael Topper around 1990 when I picked up a free newsprint magazine at the local health food store in a suburb of Los Angeles. The four or five articles were all penned by Topper and most involved New Age topics and the emerging conspiracy genre. It wasn't long before I discovered that he had read The Ra Material, and praised it very highly. Since I discovered Ra in 1987, I realized that here indeed may be a kindred spirit. I was not disappointed.
Over the next three years or so, I regularly obtained the latest copy of his magazine, entitled The New Thunderbird Chronicle. Not only were his articles intriguing and intuitive, but he offered classes in meditation and breathing, coming on as a sort of spiritual master. I never took his classes but many of his students were appreciative of his work and teachings.
He went on to help organize spiritual/UFO expos in Los Angeles and became a supporter of Bill Cooper, grandaddy of the modern conspiracy movement. I was fortunate enough to see Cooper twice at these conferences, and I was blown away by his presentations.

Anyway, I wanted to take this opportunity to present a few of Topper's articles to the good folks here. I think you'll be impressed as I was.
The first article I'll post is one which I feel is important because the subject is widely embraced by the new age community and rarely questioned. Topper brings some harsh light upon this tricky concept.



A paradigm that is currently running amok through the New Age community, and which is depriving them of their last bit of common sense, is better known as "You Create Your Own Reality" (short: YCYOR). This insidious half-truth is usually placed into a very misleading context and is never completely true.

Let us just look at some basic facts that we can derive if YCYOR would be completely true:

1.) Every war victim, or rape victim, etc. must have wanted to draw whatever misfortune upon itself, since that victim "created his own reality".

Common sense tells us here, that this is nonsense, and that not all war victims, etc. ever wanted to happen that war to them. For me, common sense simply wins, and cuts a long discussion short. :-)

2.) We would live in a solipsistic universe wherein we could do whatever we wanted without further consequences.

But pretty much obviously, we do not live in such an utopian universe, and no, even on higher densities, there is no such universe.

(Quote: "Oh, what a spoilsport!" we can just hear the chorus. Why not let those who want to, abide peacefully in the solipsism of their spook-sanctioned presumption that -- despite the alleged interconnectedness of everything -- the common ego-view of personal hermetic insularity is valid after all, and "I" can indeed conjure a positive-think Paradise to "preserve me eternal" in the midst of everyone else's self-created, hallucinatory world-disaster.)

What makes the YCYOR evangelist fatuous (rather than a demonstrable God of the most egregious solipsism) is precisely the fact that all such "personal decreeing", "positive thinking" and confident imagining takes place in an inevitable context. There are implications! There are repercussions! No one decrees in a personal or private, solipsistic vacuum. There is a variegated World of myriad "pulls" and "claims" coexisting along with the private desires and designs of the given ego-subject.

But "so what?" we hear the die-hard "reality-creator" claim�"don't we remain untouched by those 'co-existents' as long as we keep secure in the confidence of our own private deservedness, our own authoritative affirmations and specific commissions of positive thought-re- inforcement?"

Why You Don't "Create Your Own Reality"

Just sit there for a minute. Attune to a mere soupcon of self-reflective consciousness and you can't help but notice you're hardly self-generated; there isn't one thing about yourself, including the environment you perceive or your "personal" will, that issues from any sense of a self-creating "you". Indeed, "you" are spontaneously endowed, before the self-reflective fact, as the coordinate presence of a total and given pattern of Being. It is all immediately established, without personal intercession on your part. The patterns through which you perceive, the modes by which you move and cognize take up your being without a whimper of protest, a hint of objection or even notice. This vastly creative process by which you spontaneously come to yourself, on its terms, is so suavely accepted as inherent expression of your being that you claim it as yourself without even observing you do so (i.e., these are "my" thoughts, "my" words, "my" perceptions, "my" ideas, "my" movements).

Read more: http://cassiopaea.org/cass/topperycyor.htm

Interesting. I think this is why it's called co-creating.

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see anywhere a mention about pre-incarnational choices ?

(06-26-2012, 08:53 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting. I think this is why it's called co-creating.

Maybe I missed it, but I did not see anywhere a mention about pre-incarnational choices ?

Choices made before incarnation involve persons, times and generalized conditions and do not include the choices one makes during the incarnation. These 'pre-incarnational' choices really do not involve this idea that what we think or desire will manifest willy-nilly - this notion may have relevance on some level but to say that each one is entirely responsible for whatever fortune or misfortune befalls one is something that is, to me, preposterous. Like I said, there may be some truth to this on some level but is not a principle of human life - it is a principle on some higher level where beings are so spiritually evolved that they literally do create their own reality. Humans are nowhere near that capability.

My meaning was in the deeper sense. In that it is my belief that we are all responsible for the state of things on this planet. Even Wanderers, they (we) accept a share of this responsibility by coming here. It is an honor/duty to help transmute this karma.

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And now for something a little different. This next article is one of my favorites, it's conspiracy oriented and quite humorous. It's a tour de force of the bourgeoning conspiracy genre, and contains an hilarious spoof of the movie Easy Rider with Peter Fonda, Dennis Hopper and Jack Nicholson. It's a little long but I think you'll agree it's well-written and informative.

T-Bird Meets The Phoenix

We Go to the Tim Beckley National New Age and Alien Agenda Conference


The world isn’t what you think it is

Unless of course you’ve always thought that "Through The Looking Glass" is a documentary description of the way things are, that every official science and social-study is a "tale told by an idiot";

unless you’ve always thought that secret societies, hidden governments and controlling families hold the keys of power while everything’s intentionally oriented in the wrong direction,

unless you’ve always thought that conventional interpretations of reality were a deliberately administered drug, doping into a collective dream so that ineffectual gestures cast shadows on a wall that accordingly moves but by means of cables concealed behind; and that those cables extend down old abandoned elevator shafts and derelict mines into tunneled phantasmagorias that effectually honeycomb the Earth’s insides hiding cavernous fortresses, halls of civilizations "lost" and exotic armamentariums where refugees from unknown eras of the planet’s surface mingle with interdimensional mercenaries, and every manner of being from beyond the parochial framework capable of streaming in on secret lines of linkage from the farthest star sets up shop, establishes staging outposts for one or another purpose in the proper—dimensional—pockets formed in the seals of the Earth’s concentric "centers",

unless you’ve always thought that from such sealed centers, the various influences of diverse agencies are sent to the surface on beams of technical magic generating stresses in our psychic atmospheres according to some desire to accelerate or retard the evolutionary development of the consciousness on the crust;

unless you’ve always thought that, through the interaction of such criss-cross rays there convened the secret histories behind all pasteboard fictions—the basic Unity in the mock "plurality" of powers detectable at those blurred scams of conspiratorial overlap where certain officers of the mundane order always hold concurrent—if camouflaged—posts upon interlocking boards of "occult" directorates through which the kingmakers are actually anointed, the secret governments silently installed...

unless you’ve always thought that those subterraneous forces fight an ongoing battle for the hearts and minds of uncommitted man toward the time accordingly prepared when there would either be a sufficiency of corresponding substance to actualize the birth of Conscious freedom or to materialize that eldritch vision, the return to daylight consciousness of the twilight armies of the Elder Race—the emergence into mundane history of the Old Ones of the Night of Time..

unless of course you’ve always thought it was something like that.
Otherwise, you’ve got quite a surprise coming.

Indeed as we of the winged T-Bird floated over the forested, two-lane Arizona highway in our rented van, detouring to catch the Canyon in a sheer gauze of rain while making our angular route to Phoenix and the "Tim Beckley Annual UFO Convention"—miles and outstretched miles across that reminiscent ribbon of blacktop beneath beaming arches of a double rainbow, L.A. behind in a rapidly-dissipating dream of departure through a smokering shroud—it felt as if one could be perfectly at peace with any tidy version of America, any hallowed parchment in an empty gallery...

It all seemed perfectly permissible since this was the Storybook version, these unspoiled hills and diamond skies—any retrogressive estimate, any grade-school atavism molded again to manageable proportions and all ringed ’round with the safely-habitable, politely conformable world would suffice and survive in an atmosphere so equal to the simplicity such sentiment required, all could be sustained without subscribing to a single thing. Here in this very place if anywhere at all that ultimate vision of man’s politicized peace could find its suitably pastoral correlative—here in the very place where in fact it was most perfectly belied...

It was all like a typical Hitchcock movie—opening shots of a bucolic American burg clean as the angle on a T-square and background music belonging to Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood—but wait, that set-up innocence is by now dead giveaway that there’s something rotten, basically awful lurking just below the kodachrome surface! The now-famous Lynch would continue a brain-damaged version of such a theme as the ’80s slouched toward the inevitable ’90s, rendering the whole wholesome scene as a surreal commercial skimming over the happy hamlet on the camera-wing of a golden oriole, over treetops and firehouse and across leaf-rustled schoolyard dropping softly on a garden beneath the sunny shale of which, lifted just a little, we see a crawling beetle in the bright-green blades, and leveraged a little more so as to rip up some of the overgrown slipgrass we begin to see first signs of real vermin.... and as the rock is peeled back like the back of a skull from a rotted corpse the whole miasmal swarm of centipedes and maggot-brood overspills in soundtrack amplification like the munching of a million mites on gristle...

So one muses while taking in the pine and scented cedar of whistle-clean Flagstaff (that evening, indeed, first glimpse at the paper in the motel room two girls attacked by unknown assailant on that very highway, where the roadsigns like abandoned Burma-shave boards warn Prison Zone, don’t pick up hitchhikers).

Even as the lovely, meditative miles spooled off from that veritable ribbon of two-lane one couldn’t help but consider how far it all was from the spirit of Easy Rider which it nonetheless evoked indeed. "What a long strange trip it’s been"! One recalled that most famous of celluloid scenes from the ’60s, in which Hopper and Fonda gleefully conspire to get Jack Nicholson’s straight-Southern lawyer stoned for the first time beneath a wooded American night-sky, and Nicholson proceeds to take them on a trip as he loosens up and begins the celebrated soliloquy as to how those satellites are often saucers in disguise and how the spacepeople have been monitoring this planet for ages—one remembered the dream-lidded dubiety of Hopper’s "Billy", and Fonda’s progressive facial register of his trademark "far out "...

Suppose, in our collectively stoned condition, the scene doesn’t stop there but goes right straight on—in an exponentially paranoic time ellipse—as Nicholson keeps puffing and proclaims "yes, and not only have the spacebeings been monitoring us but they’ve actually made themselves known to our government and have made a secret pact with the military at the highest levels, you know... "

He proceeds—yes—Joints passed gingerly through the audience as attention becomes thoroughly sucked up in the enveloping immensity of the Screen...
"Of course the military’s interested in the arrangement because of their highly advanced technology and the implicit threat their superior knowledge poses to the whole safety of the planet Earth and civilization as we know it... "

Fonda’s lids lift in puffy pantomime of the proverbial "far out"....

"But what the spacebeings are interested in is interbreeding wilh Earth women in order to improve their genetic stock, which has been severely damaged by nuclear holocausts on their own world... "
Hopper rolls his eyes moonward in appeal to the patron of lunatics, takes another hit as Fonda in sheer mesmeric fascination moves around the campfire closer to the raptured Nicholson...
"And the secret government, you know the military-industrial complex and its espionage agencies and the Council on Foreign Relations and the Illuminati and the Jason Scholars and the Club of Rome and the Bilderbergers and the Masons and the Elks and the Shriners, the secret government decides to the aliens’ terms in the hopes of keeping their abduction activities to a limited basis that can be supervised, so we exchange the promise of a full list of the borrowed citizens used in their genetic experiments and returned undamaged for the guarantee of acquiring their advanced scientific knowledge so we can forge far ahead of the Russians and at the same time raise ourselves onto a par with the spacebeings. Of course," Jack continues, staring slit-eyed into the fire, "we figure these spacebeings aren’t used to Earth-deals, our military figures that it’s slickered these rubbery skinned rubes from Orion and all the while it doesn’t realize that it’s they themselves that have been slickered. "

"I suppose these space dudes have fine print in their contract what’d they do, have you for their attorney?" Hopper jeers, Bogarting the last of the Joint that’s lingered twelve eternities as an idle glow in the shadow between his fingers.

"That’s correct," Jack forges on, "the fine print as you so sagely remark, implicitly stated that these spacebeings had just been given carte blanche because of a little-known clause of cosmic law which was just not the Earth government’s forte. And that law states that the sanctity, the internal self-contained development of a planetary culture or society cannot be violated except on invitation extended an outside agency by the free Will of that culture, through its overt or implicit representatives."

"Come again?" Fonda interjects after what seems to be an interminable suspension of time, every audible nuance in the crackle of the campfire meticulously subdividing into separate infinities of tone..

"You heard correctly my friend. It turns out that, once the invitation is extended by making a pact or treaty, the spacebeings that are negatively polarized and therefore not honorbound to observe the specific terms of any agreement, are perfectly able to maraud and plunder according to the actual spirit or true character that originally sparked the agreement. Since the whole treaty was inspired in the first place by designs of military supremacy, control and conquest, the spacebeings of negative orientation take that to be the real governing terms of their own activity. So the military comes to find out that they’ve violated the agreement, that they’re only submitting fractional lists of the actual number of unsuspecting citizens they’ve been abducting and subjecting to genetic experiments, medical examinations, brainwashing and post-hypnotic suggestion, amnesia, monitor implanting of a surgical type and so forth... "

"So what exactly does the military and the secret power-structure do when it finds out about this infraction?" Fonda asks, spellbound with the tiny image of the bonfire dancing in each glazed pup of his eyes.

"Well, naturally, it goes right ahead and uses as much of the alien technology as is doled out by the comparative eyedropper, to abduct and brainwash and implant U S citizens as well... "

"Good." Hopper chortles, "We’ll retaliate the execution on U.S. hostages by taking American citizens hostage and executing them ourselves!’"

"That’s sort of the logic, alright," Jack drawls. "You see what the government started getting concerned about, was the number that really seemed to be involved here, and that it wasn’t only miscellaneous citizens they were finding with ’missing time’ but military personnel, government officials and people in key positions of power, everywhere..." Cut back and forth to successively tight shots on Fonda’s "far out" expression... "Well, the government begins to figure that the only thing it can do is either go to the American people through the mass media and confess the fact that it’d closed a bad deal behind everyone’s back and appeal to the enlightened concernment of the general citizenry, or it can clam up, spare itself the embarrassment and the implicit revelation concerning the character of routine behavior-patterns, and develop its own preemptive strike capabilities using a combination of what it could extract of alien technology and the advanced work of its best scientific minds."

Read more: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...pper03.htm

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(06-26-2012, 10:05 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]My meaning was in the deeper sense. In that it is my belief that we are all responsible for the state of things on this planet. Even Wanderers, they (we) accept a share of this responsibility by coming here. It is an honor/duty to help transmute this karma.

Yes, well I agree with your statements above - but they don't address the issue of YCYOR.

Michael Topper is an interesting author. He wrote a three-part explication of the Ra Material, available here: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienci...pper02.htm

He also wrote a review of Carla's Channeling Handbook in which he called Carla "the greatest channeler of all time." http://southerncrown.tribe.net/thread/e5...55a1cdcfd4

Edit: I moved the quotes from that review to a new thread: http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=5100 . It looks like this thread is going to center around the debate about "you create your own reality."

Topper died in 2004: http://articles.ivpressonline.com/2004-1...o_24187784

Photograph: http://www.rememberedbyus.com/michaeltopper/

Quote:Common sense tells us here

Logical fallacy. Nuff said about the rest.

This thread saddened me for a moment. Then I realized that it does not matter if someone does not believe that all create our own realities, they do not need to. Toddler deaths, rape and war victims are not placed above the ever-existing Creation, and what they offer to themselves as a horrible experience and what they offer to everyone witnessing it is a strong tool for polarization (it can invoke the most powerful feelings of rage, compassion, love, sadness, everything) - in a world where All Is One, it would be madness to indicate that YOU did not die a little with everyone who dies every moment. And that they stop living once those vehicles are left behind. They do not. Because it is not possible to stop existing.

Some quotes from Ra on the question of creating your own catalyst:

Quote:At some point in third density, the green-ray energy center becomes activated and at that point incarnation ceases to be automatic.

21.10 Questioner: When incarnation ceases to be automatic I am assuming that the entity can decide when he needs to incarnate for the benefit of his own learning. Does he also select his parents?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

21.11 Questioner: At this time in our cycle, near the end, what percentage of the entities incarnating are making their own choices?

Ra: I am Ra. The approximate percentage is fifty-four percent.

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Quote:The more advanced the entity, the more tenuous the connection between the sub-Logos and the perceived catalyst until, finally, all catalyst is chosen, generated, and manufactured by the self, for the self.

54.18 Questioner: Which entities incarnate at this time on this planet would be in that category of manufacturing all of their catalyst?

Ra: I am Ra. We find your query indeterminate but can respond that the number of those which have mastered outer catalyst completely is quite small.

Most of those harvestable at this space/time nexus have partial control over the outer illusion and are using the outer catalyst to work upon some bias which is not yet in balance.

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Quote:83.27 Questioner: In some cases it seems that this use of catalyst is almost in a runaway condition for some entities in that they are experiencing much more pain than they can make good use of as far as catalytic nature would be considered. Could you comment on that?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last query of this working of a full length. You may see, in some cases, an entity which, either by pre-incarnative choice or by constant reprogramming while in incarnation, has developed an esurient program of catalyst. Such an entity is quite desirous of using the catalyst and has determined to its own satisfaction that what you may call the large board needs to be applied to the forehead in order to obtain the attention of the self. In these cases it may indeed seem a great waste of the catalyst of pain and a distortion towards feeling the tragedy of so much pain may be experienced by the other-self. However, it is well to hope that the other-self is grasping that which it has gone to some trouble to offer itself; that is, the catalyst which it desires to use for the purpose of evolution. May we ask if there are any brief queries at this time?

The less advanced do not appear to create their own reality.

(06-27-2012, 08:26 AM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Common sense tells us here

Logical fallacy. Nuff said about the rest.

I'm sorry. You have added nothing to the discussion. You have not shown that common sense is inferior to a theory that we all designed every aspect of our incarnation (which leaves the enormous question of free will vs. destiny).

(06-27-2012, 08:40 AM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]This thread saddened me for a moment. Then I realized that it does not matter if someone does not believe that all create our own realities, they do not need to. Toddler deaths, rape and war victims are not placed above the ever-existing Creation, and what they offer to themselves as a horrible experience and what they offer to everyone witnessing it is a strong tool for polarization (it can invoke the most powerful feelings of rage, compassion, love, sadness, everything) - in a world where All Is One, it would be madness to indicate that YOU did not die a little with everyone who dies every moment. And that they stop living once those vehicles are left behind. They do not. Because it is not possible to stop existing.

You'll excuse me if I fail to see the likelihood that someone will create a reality for themselves to die a horrible death or suffer a terrible injury in order to aid other-selves in their journey. Again, common sense would think that we each designed for ourselves a successful incarnation in order to evolve/develop spiritually. I'll never believe that everything is predestined regardless of who wills it so. The law of free will and the law of confusion are on my side in this.


@βαθμιαίος

Thanks for the quotes. They seem to support my idea that YCYOR does not operate among most humans but comes into play during higher density development. Topper seems to think that YCYOR does not operate on any level and I'm not certain he's wrong. I will continue to study this topic to come to a more certain conclusion.

I did not intend this thread to become a debate on this one subject (YCYOR). I wanted only to publicize a few of Topper's more interesting essays as he does admire Carla and the Ra Material. And I think we could all do with a dose of fallacious new age hype, which, by the way, David Icke is good at exposing also. Icke shows no mercy to those new agers who believe that positive thinking and sending love to the four corners of creation is all that's necessary to rid the world of evil. An awareness of political realities and positive action to remedy our common dilemma is just as necessary.

edit: I forgot to thank you for the interesting links you provided. I've not had a chance to look at them yet but will do so tonight.
I wasn't aware that MT is deceased. Sad.
I'm glad also that you started a 'Carla' thread. I've read Topper's review of Carla's book and it is an excellent review and a good synopsis of channeling in general.

"You'll excuse me if I fail to see the likelihood that someone will create a reality for themselves to die a horrible death or suffer a terrible injury in order to aid other-selves in their journey. Again, common sense would think that we each designed for ourselves a successful incarnation in order to evolve/develop spiritually. I'll never believe that everything is predestined regardless of who wills it so. The law of free will and the law of confusion are on my side in this."

You keep repeating common sense when common sense has nothing to do with spirituality. Common sense suggests that there is no afterlife as well, no aliens in our near vicinity, no hidden history of the Earth, no sixth sense, no channeling, no spirits, no ghosts, no supernatural. THAT is common sense.

Law of Free Will and Law of Confusion is on everyone's side, as it does not pick a side. Also, my belief allows me having mine (we create our own realities) and you having yours, while yours does not. Interesting, is not it?

Again, there is a lot of material on HOW suffering exists, and yet you differentiate a death with a landmine and a death that follows a seemingly succesful life that was full of suffering, obesity, cancer, having no friends and a prolonged death in a dirty hospital, alone. Which one is more fair according to common sense? And again: this "what happens to the vehicle" mentality is understandable, but in the realm where All is One and all is Well, no losses and injustices occur.

(06-27-2012, 09:20 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ]

(06-27-2012, 08:26 AM)Cyan Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:Common sense tells us here

Logical fallacy. Nuff said about the rest.

I'm sorry. You have added nothing to the discussion. You have not shown that common sense is inferior to a theory that we all designed every aspect of our incarnation (which leaves the enormous question of free will vs. destiny).

When the root principle of the opposite sides argument is that "the people around me say so" there isnt much I can say to influence his opinion.

Common sense is just that, what the common environment around you feels that is true. IT is not really true any more than the world being flat in the 15th century was "common sense" science, especially top of the line science is so far from common sense to be on a different reality. On top of that spiritual concepts are what is abstracted to be possible / not possible in the divine based on top of the line physics. That is maybe 200+ years ahead of what is "the common sense"

The argument of the writer is that the people around him know better than someone who spends 30 years doing the stuff him/herself, such as most top of the line channelers and quantum physics.

Common sense on rigel is common sense on rigel. What it has to do with if planting a seed eventually grows into a tree is near 0.

The person in question is basing the root corner of his argument in "my friends know better than you, nah nah naa" and such arguments are not, in general, very worthwhile.

If he had made a scientific basis for why things like the double slit experiment and quantum entanglement are against common sense and won, i might listen to his argument. But modern day science is so far from common sense that if he fails to grasp the uselesness of the conventional common sense in understanding things such as the reality of existence he fails to take into account just how massive the universe really is and how stupid it is to assume that a group of say. 15 of his closest associates really have any idea of how the world operates on the other side of the galaxy.

"The avalance has already started, the pebbles are not called to vote"

Anyone interested in bringing their "common sense" up to date would really like this book:

The Grand Design (2010) by Stephen Hawking Ph.D, CH, CBE, FRS, FRSA.

It's quite readable even for a layman.

Quote:When and how did the universe begin? Why are we here? What is the nature of reality? Is the apparent “grand design” of our universe evidence of a benevolent creator who set things in motion—or does science offer another explanation? In this startling and lavishly illustrated book, Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow present the most recent scientific thinking about these and other abiding mysteries of the universe, in nontechnical language marked by brilliance and simplicity.

According to quantum theory, the cosmos does not have just a single existence or history. The authors explain that we ourselves are the product of quantum fluctuations in the early universe, and show how quantum theory predicts the “multiverse”—the idea that ours is just one of many universes that appeared spontaneously out of nothing, each with different laws of nature. They conclude with a riveting assessment of M-theory, an explanation of the laws governing our universe that is currently the only viable candidate for a “theory of everything”: the unified theory that Einstein was looking for, which, if confirmed, would represent the ultimate triumph of human reason.

(06-27-2012, 09:20 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the quotes. They seem to support my idea that YCYOR does not operate among most humans but comes into play during higher density development. Topper seems to think that YCYOR does not operate on any level and I'm not certain he's wrong. I will continue to study this topic to come to a more certain conclusion.

You're welcome. I think it's interesting that I went looking for quotes on creating your own reality and ended up with quotes on creating your own catalyst. The idea of creating your own reality seems to imply a reality without any yucky catalyst, but really, what would the point of that be? Wouldn't that basically moving back to edenic pre-veil conditions? The point of catalyst is growth, right? And growth is in some ways the point of the whole thing. Arguably, the whole idea of creating your own reality, to the extent that it means creating a trouble-free reality, is back-asswards.

@ Cyan:

May I remind you that the appeal to common sense was but one of Topper's arguments against YCYOR. Another argument more difficult to refute (not that you have succeeded in refuting the common sense argument) is the one of context; we live in a world with others who are also creating their own reality - are you telling me that everyone's reality will manifest for them without interference by other-selves' realities? You have a long way to go to prove or even make a convincing argument for your side.

But as stated earlier, this thread will not focus strictly on this issue, as dear as it may be to some of us....

Have any of you read the second article yet? I found it to be well-written, humorous, and informative...anyone? Have you all seen the movie, Easy Rider? Great movie - made a huge impact back in the day....