Bring4th

Full Version: Addicted to Humanity?
You're currently viewing a stripped down version of our content. View the full version with proper formatting.
Pages: 1 2

Shin'Ar

As we examine what it means to be human in our endeavor to become more than our present dilemma of Cosmic Mystery, we uncover one of the more counterproductive aspects of our nature that victimizes our evolving capability.

It is the instinctive need to survive that lies at the root of all human nature, but that pure instinct can be tainted and over exaggerated to extreme circumstances. And it is in the extremity of certain circumstances that we become victimized by our natural tendencies.
This truth is the reason for many of the social ills that we know as addictions.

Whenever something that we find ourselves attracted to or in need of to such extremes that it consumes our lifestyles, whether abusive or just obsessive, it can be considered addictive.

Unfortunately many of the things to which the human becomes addicted are things which the human requires to function because of the way that our society and civilization has influenced us.
Fast food, for instance. How many of us cannot even begin our day without the Timmy’s fix? And what additives are used in those offerings that keep us addicted and coming back?

Big Macs, KFC, Coffee, and soda pop. And the unmentionable tobacco products. We are all aware that these things are probably being tainted with addictive ingredients. And we tolerate this abuse of our personal space because these are things from which we are unwilling to escape. Not only are they deeply interwoven into our daily routines but we enjoy them so much.

How many other things can we add to that list that either has some adverse effect on our personal space or the personal space of others in some way?

Television?

Luxuries which make our chores a little easier?

Transportation?

Our sex lives?

Our religious beliefs?

Our sports recreations?

Do you see what I am getting at here?

The human is not only a creature of habit, but it is a creature that will take advantage of such nature to benefit themselves at the expense of others as well. And when addiction to a particular thing is so enticing, forethought and concern for anything else is not a priority. The easing of the addiction is all that matters.

How many of us are willing to give up our refrigerators or our microwaves for the sake of environmental issues?

Who is going to sell their cars and start taking the bus everywhere for the sake of air quality?

Who can function in society these days without being a part of the system of addictions?

When most of us think of addiction we think about alcohol and drug abuse, or gambling, or pornography. I have sons that are addicted to all of these and they still manage to function in society. What does that tell you about the system having their hands in it?

Addiction is not just being hooked on things that we might consider abusive to one’s wellbeing though.True addiction is revealed in the degree with which one suffers a withdrawal from the addition as they try to escape it or cast it off for something different and new. The more withdrawal symptoms one suffers the greater the addiction.

This is the reason that some addictions become so deadly. Each subjection to the addiction requires the next subjection to be even greater, and at some point it becomes impossible to attain such high subjections, at which point the addict begins to deteriorate from withdrawal problems. To be addicted to a thing that one cannot acquire a high enough dose of in order to satisfy the addiction is the true depiction of beating one’s head against the wall.

Addiction to those things which please us, comfort us, relieve us, and seduce us, seems to be at the root of being human. And not just because they are often imposed on us by others. But because we are all addicted to something to some degree. To be human is to be addicted to something that we cannot control or want to control.

And when that nature is allowed to be taken to its extremes, we find all the consequences that deny civilization its true harmony. Greed and war are just reflections of a much deeper aspect of human nature. Just as is love and compassion. To deny this is to deny our natural human tendency.
So this begs the question, “can we rise above our human nature? And what becomes of our natural humanity when we do?”

If we can deny our natural tendencies, and we can become more than our lusts and gratifications, do we become something ‘other’ than that which we have just defined above as human?

We are so caught up in our traditions and daily routines, and our quest for knowing and solving questions. This has been the human experience. If we remove ourselves from this experience to discover an ‘other’, do we leave behind our humanity as we ascend?

And what does it take to provoke a human to reach for such an escape from all that is human?

And if we manage to accomplish such a feat in grand numbers, what effect does that have on those left behind and the civilization they now enjoy?

Addiction is more than extreme personal choice, it is human life as we have known it for thousands of years. As such it is not just limited to one lifetime of individual proportions. It is rather the continuing effect on lifetime after lifetime of individual experiences. This relegates it to a much higher influence on humanity. It impresses upon evolution and to a more direct way, on reincarnation. No human is going to reincarnate into a different human experience than the addictive one we all experience.

Unless there is an ‘other’ way to reincarnate! Unless there is a way to achieve a higher way of Being where we are not afflicted by addictive nature and the prevalent social design which has evolved around it.

Is this what the Ancients were speaking to when they advised us to cast off the flesh and escape from the cycle of darkness?

What is beyond our addictions, and is anyone that has no desire to discover that possibility just revealing the extent of their addiction?

As we examine what it means to be human in our endeavor to become more than our present dilemma of Cosmic Mystery, we uncover one of the more counterproductive aspects of our nature that (victimizes our evolving capability).
Unless a better way of living is provided, we go with what works best. You can attempt to contrast the average lifestyle with some nebulous idealized standard, but it's impotent because it fails to solve the actual problems we face. Also, you're clearly confusing addiction with habituation. Further, no one taints my coffee with addictive substances.

Shin'Ar

(07-07-2012, 12:38 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Unless a better way of living is provided, we go with what works best. You can attempt to contrast the average lifestyle with some nebulous idealized standard, but it's impotent because it fails to solve the actual problems we face. Also, you're clearly confusing addiction with habituation. Further, no one taints my coffee with addictive substances.

lol Zen, ignorance really is bliss ain't it!
(07-07-2012, 12:38 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Unless a better way of living is provided, we go with what works best. You can attempt to contrast the average lifestyle with some nebulous idealized standard, but it's impotent because it fails to solve the actual problems we face. Also, you're clearly confusing addiction with habituation. Further, no one taints my coffee with addictive substances.

Nebulized possibility is just another word for hope, and hope is never impotent.

it is rather the essence behind evolution.

My speculation is that it is the possibility of something else that gives us hope and reason to seek for those nebulas that you choose to ignore as impossible dreams.

You can get addicted to remaining in what is 'behind evolution'. It will be always impotent unless and until you bother to balance your intuition with rationality. This is regardless of any transient hope you personally require to get you started.

Shin'Ar

Rationale is a dangerous tool when it is applied with a lack of intuitive guidance.

What appears to be rational when only using one's physical senses does not always reflect the reality of the many aspects of creation that do not conform to your physical 'rationale'.

Think outside of 'the box' and you begin to piece together those aspects of metaphysical reality which reveals to you the baggage of the physical that weighs you down.
The human physiology developed in an obviously different set of circumstances than we find ourselves in today. We in the first world have a permanent abundance, and yet not much longer than a century ago, getting bread year round in many places wasnt possible.

But we have the ability to have whatever we want when we want it. Our bodies react to certain tastes that are associated with the nutrients we need. Now we can go into the lab and make a product with almost nil dietary value aside from sugar and fat, but sets off all those triggers in our taste buds.

There is too much money to made to keeping us docile workers who will do as they system wants.

It is not reincarnation or "overcoming this addiction" that humanity needs. Its a hunger for something else than what makes us physiologically and mentally sedate. Passion and desire for expanding what it means to be human, that is what "saves us". The wonders of the universe are all around us, and with the internet we can share what we see as wonders with everyone else. But we cant see for them.

I am daily awestruck by the glory and grandeur of the universe (need a different word, but universe will suffice), but not everyone can appreciate things as another does.

It is in our ability to perceive of things greater than ourselves that we desire to be more than what we are. How to instill that in someone? Thats the $64,000 question.

Shin'Ar

(07-07-2012, 09:09 PM)Goldenratio Wrote: [ -> ]The human physiology developed in an obviously different set of circumstances than we find ourselves in today. We in the first world have a permanent abundance, and yet not much longer than a century ago, getting bread year round in many places wasnt possible.

But we have the ability to have whatever we want when we want it. Our bodies react to certain tastes that are associated with the nutrients we need. Now we can go into the lab and make a product with almost nil dietary value aside from sugar and fat, but sets off all those triggers in our taste buds.

There is too much money to made to keeping us docile workers who will do as they system wants.

It is not reincarnation or "overcoming this addiction" that humanity needs. Its a hunger for something else than what makes us physiologically and mentally sedate. Passion and desire for expanding what it means to be human, that is what "saves us". The wonders of the universe are all around us, and with the internet we can share what we see as wonders with everyone else. But we cant see for them.

I am daily awestruck by the glory and grandeur of the universe (need a different word, but universe will suffice), but not everyone can appreciate things as another does.

It is in our ability to perceive of things greater than ourselves that we desire to be more than what we are. How to instill that in someone? Thats the $64,000 question.



Well you say here that you acknowledge the wonder of the universe, and that it is human desire to be more and expand that 'saves us', and yet you contain that desire to the realm of the one tiny aspect of creation which we call Earth, as though all that exists in the universe we find right here and it should suffice throughout eternity for the human.

You say that it is in our ability to perceive of greater things that drives us to be more than we are, and then you settle on being nothing more than the human form that you now take.

I think that what you are doing is thinking that being more than we are is a matter of achieving more from human nature that what we have experienced so far. You are thinking that expanding the human experience means expanding human achievement here on earth.

And that is certainly a worthy goal. But it does not take into consideration the vastness of the wonder of the universe of which you also speak.

There are others in this community that feel as you do. Some are STS oriented and self gratification while in human form is what they seek. In their case their thinking is logical and beneficial to that which they desire from creation. To please their physical human senses. Some are just of the mind that, like you, human experience is to be cherished and that horse ridden for all it is worth, and that we should enjoy it for as long as possible, even to the neglect of any other possibilities for us 'out there'.

I can understand Zen Master's thinking in that he does not have any confidence or does not feel the need to think 'out there'. he has the mindset of the scientist that refuses to consider anything that cannot be placed in a petrie dish for observation.

And I can understand why the Dark Ones choose to remain tethered to this experience out of addiction to the pleasures.

What I cannot understand is the seeker or wanderer that knows that there is much more to this Creation than the physical, let alone the Earth itself, and that openly declare their awe of the wonders 'out there', but continue to think that somehow all of what is 'out there' can be had in this tiny pinpoint of the universe, in this temporary physical form.

So I would have to ask you if you are one who does not accept the concept of reincarnation? Because if you believe that all you have is this one life and this one experience, than of course you would think the way you do.

But if you can comprehend the evolution of consciousness as being beyond the temporary form of human physiology, than I would have to ask you why you would assume that this Earth and its offerings are all that we should seek after?









I am addicted to being a Human. I love it! Screw becoming a light being, I am happy with being me!

I want to continue experiencing the illusion through my bag of bones. That also means I will take measures to ensure this bag does not deteriorate too soon lol!Tongue

Shin'Ar

(07-08-2012, 11:24 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]I am addicted to being a Human. I love it! Screw becoming a light being, I am happy with being me!

I want to continue experiencing the illusion through my bag of bones. That also means I will take measures to ensure this bag does not deteriorate too soon lol!Tongue

Of course that is your choice, one of the many you have to make.

To you Thoth, the Ancient Teacher, the Sun of the Light, would have this to say:

Hark ye, O man, and know of thy bondage,
know how to free thyself from the toils.
Out of the darkness shall ye rise upward,
one with the Light and one with the stars.

Follow ye ever the path of wisdom.
Only by this can ye rise from below.
Ever man's destiny leads him onward
into the Curves of Infinity's ALL.

Know ye, O man, that all space is ordered.
Only by Order are ye One with the ALL.
Order and balance are the Law of the Cosmos.
Follow and ye shall be One with the ALL.

He who would follow the pathway of wisdom,
open must be to the flower of life,
extending his consciousness out of the darkness,
flowing through time and space in the ALL.

When ye have freed thy soul from its bondage,
know that for ye the darkness is gone.
Ever through space ye may seek wisdom,
bound not be fetters forged in the flesh.

Man is in process of changing
to forms that are not of this world.
Grows he is time to the formless,
a plane on the cycle above.
Know ye, ye must become formless before ye are with the LIGHT.


Pickle, you choose to defy your true Design and to halt your progress within that design. Such is free will. Enjoy your deliberately limited retardation.

While many countless others have moved on far beyond the stage where you choose to stagnate in cessation. This physical experience is for a purpose, to discover wisdom and evolve into wiser form of being. How many times one can reincarnate before they learn that lesson and achieve that wisdom I cannot say. Shall we use your continuing reincarnation into the grand schoolyard as a measuring stick?

I myself spent three years getting through grade 12 because I was much more interested in personal pleasure. I wonder how long your addiction will last?








(07-08-2012, 12:20 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder how long your addiction will last?

Another 47 years or so. My "stagnation" has changed this body to the point where the natural span would extend another 90 years if left to live. I have certain purposes to fulfill while here, taking care of them one by one. And I am loving it in the meantime.

Of course, I wouldn't mind experiencing other physical forms as well.BigSmile

Shin'Ar, the problem with generalizations is that they are always wrong.
See what I did there? Smile

Here is the thing, according to my beliefs. Addiction is something that one instinctively does without thinking about it, be it a physiological or any other kind of addiction. Habitually eating, smoking and drinking stuff is a conscious choice, however, no matter how you wrap it up. The thing is: nature is designed around movement and change. If you have a habit, sooner or later you will have to face the "fact" that you might not be able to enjoy it. Be it a body imbalance, a disease, money situations, anything.

Whether you are able to let it go is irrelevant. The experience one gets when facing such and addiction (and I think I am not gravely mistaken when I say all of us has faced this in our lives at one point, or we will) is what's important. There is no danger in the "addicted to humanity". Astral realms are specifically designed around letting our body/mind/spirit complexes outlive certain desires until they no longer entertain us enough so we can move on to the "next" incarnations (or the previous ones.).

My problem with the "humanity is like the cocaine for the higher souls" approach is this: "as in Up, so is down. as in the heavens, so are here". Fractallic, holographic designs, BY DESIGN do not allow something "to be true on all levels - EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! No. There cannot be exceptions like this. It is like saying "everything in existence is eternal -except for things that are not." Nope. Therefore, you cannot embrace and love this existence fully and at the same time wish to run from it cause it is something that is a dangerous, sinful experience. It either is, and then all existence is just that, or it, by definition, cannot be that place.

Shin'Ar

(07-08-2012, 12:29 PM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-08-2012, 12:20 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder how long your addiction will last?

Another 47 years or so. My "stagnation" has changed this body to the point where the natural span would extend another 90 years if left to live. I have certain purposes to fulfill while here, taking care of them one by one. And I am loving it in the meantime.

Of course, I wouldn't mind experiencing other physical forms as well.BigSmile




well at least when you're ready you will have much to look forward to.
(07-08-2012, 12:31 PM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]Shin'Ar, the problem with generalizations is that they are always wrong.
See what I did there? Smile

Here is the thing, according to my beliefs. Addiction is something that one instinctively does without thinking about it, be it a physiological or any other kind of addiction. Habitually eating, smoking and drinking stuff is a conscious choice, however, no matter how you wrap it up. The thing is: nature is designed around movement and change. If you have a habit, sooner or later you will have to face the "fact" that you might not be able to enjoy it. Be it a body imbalance, a disease, money situations, anything.

Whether you are able to let it go is irrelevant. The experience one gets when facing such and addiction (and I think I am not gravely mistaken when I say all of us has faced this in our lives at one point, or we will) is what's important. There is no danger in the "addicted to humanity". Astral realms are specifically designed around letting our body/mind/spirit complexes outlive certain desires until they no longer entertain us enough so we can move on to the "next" incarnations (or the previous ones.).

My problem with the "humanity is like the cocaine for the higher souls" approach is this: "as in Up, so is down. as in the heavens, so are here". Fractallic, holographic designs, BY DESIGN do not allow something "to be true on all levels - EXCEPT FOR THIS ONE! No. There cannot be exceptions like this. It is like saying "everything in existence is eternal -except for things that are not." Nope. Therefore, you cannot embrace and love this existence fully and at the same time wish to run from it cause it is something that is a dangerous, sinful experience. It either is, and then all existence is just that, or it, by definition, cannot be that place.


This world and density is here for us to enjoy, learn from, evolve and grow. It is not here to remain forever caught up in. This one tiny aspect of Creation is One with the All but it is not in itself the All.

The All awaits our growth into it.

growth does not occur if one chooses to remain retarded in development.

One can choose to remain in grade school their entire life just because they like the gymnasium. But in so doing their existence becomes one of stagnation and limitations. They do not develop. They do not move on to college. They do not learn anything other than what is taught in grade school.

The danger is not in the enjoyment of the school, the danger is in enjoying it so much that you never graduate. In never graduating you never experience the rest of what creation has to offer.

Some birds flutter from branch to branch of the same tree never going to another tree.

Other birds soar through the treetops and into the mountains, and travel into other lands.

What more becomes available to the soaring bird that the flutterer can not even begin to imagine?

"The danger is not in the enjoyment of the school, the danger is in enjoying it so much that you never graduate. In never graduating you never experience the rest of what creation has to offer."

We will remain clashing when it comes to belief systems, Shin'Ar, because you again speak of dangers.
According to my beliefs, there are no dangers. Especially not the kinds that you describe. Why? Because of two things:

First of all, the question really becomes this: do YOU as a consciousness, as a part of the Infinite Creator, want to experience the same thing forever? The answer is: define forever! As there is no time, there is no forever. If something seems to "forever" become entangled with some concept, it BECOMES that concept - and there is nothing wrong with it. Is there wrong with becoming an universal Law? The idea of Gravity? The hugs between friends? The moments passing before birth? Or really anything? Becoming a sunset, eternally representing that?

Mind you: This is still under the assumption that movement itself is just passing through an infinite number of frozen snapshot, different energy state universes, that will "forever" remain frozen, the experience of movement is for the consciousness to experience.

But the second is: do you really believe that you can be "forever" caught up in an incarnation? Pre-incarnationally, that one seems to be a very tricky plan. Either nothing can be lost (and then you relive the things you are addicted to until you burn out, which you will, eventually, so no forever in it), or if it seems that it can be lost, you would not arrange yourself (as your own higher-self, being in the templet level reality, constructing your life plan) into such risks - this is, assuming that something of you could be lost in the process. Which, according to my beliefs, cannot happen. Existence cannot become non-existence. All the things that are already non-existent are busy not existing, so...

So yes, the Universe awaits us jumping. But for the universe, the moment Humans started in Earth and the moment Humans graduated from Earth is the same one. It only seems like thousands of years to those that zoom in into that plane of existence.

Shin'Ar

(07-08-2012, 05:15 PM)Oldern Wrote: [ -> ]"The danger is not in the enjoyment of the school, the danger is in enjoying it so much that you never graduate. In never graduating you never experience the rest of what creation has to offer."

We will remain clashing when it comes to belief systems, Shin'Ar, because you again speak of dangers.
According to my beliefs, there are no dangers. Especially not the kinds that you describe. Why? Because of two things:

First of all, the question really becomes this: do YOU as a consciousness, as a part of the Infinite Creator, want to experience the same thing forever? The answer is: define forever! As there is no time, there is no forever. If something seems to "forever" become entangled with some concept, it BECOMES that concept - and there is nothing wrong with it. Is there wrong with becoming an universal Law? The idea of Gravity? The hugs between friends? The moments passing before birth? Or really anything? Becoming a sunset, eternally representing that?

Mind you: This is still under the assumption that movement itself is just passing through an infinite number of frozen snapshot, different energy state universes, that will "forever" remain frozen, the experience of movement is for the consciousness to experience.

But the second is: do you really believe that you can be "forever" caught up in an incarnation? Pre-incarnationally, that one seems to be a very tricky plan. Either nothing can be lost (and then you relive the things you are addicted to until you burn out, which you will, eventually, so no forever in it), or if it seems that it can be lost, you would not arrange yourself (as your own higher-self, being in the templet level reality, constructing your life plan) into such risks - this is, assuming that something of you could be lost in the process. Which, according to my beliefs, cannot happen. Existence cannot become non-existence. All the things that are already non-existent are busy not existing, so...

So yes, the Universe awaits us jumping. But for the universe, the moment Humans started in Earth and the moment Humans graduated from Earth is the same one. It only seems like thousands of years to those that zoom in into that plane of existence.


Actually, to use the depiction that someone else used recently, if life is like a reel of film being played that has an ending already, and we are just experiencing one aspect of that long film, the scenario you and Pickle put forth would be one where the camera has gotten stuck in one of those malfunctions where the same clip plays over and over and the film just stops running.

Where you would be happy to sit back and live in that moment forever, I would be compelled to move on.
(07-08-2012, 05:23 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Actually, to use the depiction that someone else used recently, if life is like a reel of film being played that has an ending already, and we are just experiencing one aspect of that long film, the scenario you and Pickle put forth would be one where the camera has gotten stuck in one of those malfunctions where the same clip plays over and over and the film just stops running.

Where you would be happy to sit back and live in that moment forever, I would be compelled to move on.

Well, I think it is not safe to assume that just because I validate something as a choice, I actually prefer it. In some aspects of my life, I am glad that there is a sense of "constant", in others, it is ever-changing. But my point of view is simple: as You who is ready to move on, as me, who is content with whatever happens next, and others who might want to stick to human pleasures and human pleasures only feed that experience back to the same Oversoul (or if we differ, then the oversoul overseeing those oversouls), so if we think in greater consciousnesses, then it becomes clear to me that it is alright that we are having different preferences - as everything can only serve the All, after all.
what is addiction? it's something harmful you crave... well... humanity can be harmful but it can also be beautiful. sometmes both at the same time. i believe our world should be healed but nto eradicated. beautiful is always of God.
(07-07-2012, 12:38 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Unless a better way of living is provided, we go with what works best. You can attempt to contrast the average lifestyle with some nebulous idealized standard, but it's impotent because it fails to solve the actual problems we face. Also, you're clearly confusing addiction with habituation. Further, no one taints my coffee with addictive substances.


Caffine / coffee is itself an addictive mind-altering drug, consider it a moment with no filters. Imagine you being a true alien(having never been to Earth) coming to this planet with no homework done on the foods/drugs of the world. Now imagine yourself drinking a cup of coffe, never before encountering caffine . What if you were offered and drank several more cups?

It, like many addictive substances or even behaviors, can also be addictive. You can be addicted to watching tv, eating certain foods or too much foods, and you can be addicted to unhealthy relationships, all for the same reason which is simply the sensation of it.

I am not holding myself aloof of this behavior, as have been addicted to the behaviors above at some point in my past and still struggle with these problems. I also consume 12mg of Caffine in the form of a green tea 20oz bottle every workday.

I an not perfect, but the awareness of my various vices allows me the option to only do them in moderation.

Just food for thought, and not particularly aimed at zenmaster's post, more aimed at anyone who wants to further examine their habbits.
addictions are to be found in the Enchantress Card.
Addiction is a bad word, adjustment is a good word.
They are exactly the same in the end.

You're addicted to oxygen.. A very bad quality for an outer space monkey...
Imagine however you're a space monkey that totally lives without oxygen and you suddenly get put into an oxygen rich environment... You might actually catch fire.

If you're human, be human... Adjust to all the things like sex, food and sports. Partake in all those things just realize they're not you and there will be no problem. You're in far deeper trouble when you try to live your life as if you're not a part of it.

I am going to miss this planet if it goes away. I consider my "addiction" to it an achievement, not a failure. I am attached, I linked with this planet, I am a part of it it's water runs through my veins. This is not a bad thing...

I used to be different, unadjusted, unadapted, I've got the scars to prove it.

Shin'Ar

(07-10-2012, 10:38 AM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]Addiction is a bad word, adjustment is a good word.
They are exactly the same in the end.

You're addicted to oxygen.. A very bad quality for an outer space monkey...
Imagine however you're a space monkey that totally lives without oxygen and you suddenly get put into an oxygen rich environment... You might actually catch fire.

If you're human, be human... Adjust to all the things like sex, food and sports. Partake in all those things just realize they're not you and there will be no problem. You're in far deeper trouble when you try to live your life as if you're not a part of it.

I am going to miss this planet if it goes away. I consider my "addiction" to it an achievement, not a failure. I am attached, I linked with this planet, I am a part of it it's water runs through my veins. This is not a bad thing...

I used to be different, unadjusted, unadapted, I've got the scars to prove it.

Adjustment is balance, balance is what the ancients teach us is necessary to moving on. Moving on is what you acknowledge yourself to be doing.

Nobody said it was a bad thing to appreciate the experience we have here. I have never said anything like that. But even you have acknowledged in your statement the need to move one.

I would not try to tell the family of an addict that it is nothing more than an adjustment that they should appreciate.

I am also addicted to my wife. What kind of spin can be put on that?BigSmile
(07-10-2012, 11:55 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]I am also addicted to my wife. What kind of spin can be put on that?BigSmile

Is she vegetarians ? Wink
She started vegetarian as a kid, has been a raw vegan for about 8 years.
(07-10-2012, 12:25 PM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]She started vegetarian as a kid, has been a raw vegan for about 8 years.

I meant my question with relation to your new background image, since you are addicted to her. BigSmile
Addicted to...posting on various internet discussion forums, say? As you sit in front of a piece of equipment whose very existence is at the forefront of modern technology and production..and consumption.

People in glass houses and all...just saying.

Look, this is life in these times. The trappings of modern civilization are used by everyone. Damn few people stop to think about the processes behind the things they take for granted.

How about electrical power anyone? Nearly 60% of which, in the states anyway, is provided by those evil ol' oil companies in the form of natural gas. Or those evil coal companies. Wind power?...well perhaps, but it takes power and technology to manufacture those blades and turbines, not mention the miles and miles of insulated wire.

Its all interconnected. Unless you're living in a cave...(and if thats true, you wouldn't even be part of this conversation)...all of us in this forum are willing participants in the "addictions" (as defined originally) of the modern age.

Richard




(07-10-2012, 11:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But even you have acknowledged in your statement the need to move one.
Not really.. I never said we need to move on. We need to realize we're not our circumstances or the balances we are in.. Change is inevitable.

Quote:I would not try to tell the family of an addict that it is nothing more than an adjustment that they should appreciate.

I would not equate sports, girlfriends food and life to an addiction to heroin or alcohol. In fact these what you call "addictions" make us stronger. They define us in that they allow us to find our balance with the world.

I know of the spiritual dogma that some people carry that all these things should be rejected and transcended. The buddha explained that if the string is bound too tight then the snare will break and produce no sound. If the string is bound too loose it will produce no sound. Only when the string is tied just right will she produce a beautiful melody.

The middle path is not about rejection or extremism. It is about embracing and surrendering to the gifts of this world. While accepting that we ourselves are not of it. Flexible enough not to break in the wind but strong enough to retain our own qualities.

From the top of my head I could quote you half a dozen verses and parables from varying religions and spiritual paths that explain the exact same principle.

Shin'Ar

(07-10-2012, 11:55 AM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]I am also addicted to my wife. What kind of spin can be put on that?BigSmile



Ask me that when she moves on.
(07-10-2012, 02:04 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Addicted to...posting on various internet discussion forums, say? As you sit in front of a piece of equipment whose very existence is at the forefront of modern technology and production..and consumption.

People in glass houses and all...just saying.

Look, this is life in these times. The trappings of modern civilization are used by everyone. Damn few people stop to think about the processes behind the things they take for granted.

How about electrical power anyone? Nearly 60% of which, in the states anyway, is provided by those evil ol' oil companies in the form of natural gas. Or those evil coal companies. Wind power?...well perhaps, but it takes power and technology to manufacture those blades and turbines, not mention the miles and miles of insulated wire.

Its all interconnected. Unless you're living in a cave...(and if thats true, you wouldn't even be part of this conversation)...all of us in this forum are willing participants in the "addictions" (as defined originally) of the modern age.

Richard



yes, thank you for making my point.

Where do these people come from that have to respond as though they are being attacked when all that we are doing is discussing a controversial topic? If you do not like to have your own beliefs questioned or debated than I suggest you do not take part in these discussions and you will not have to feel offended.

No offense or judgement is being passed here in any way. I am considering the same questions that many others will also ask. your thoughts are important as in gathering such various speculation on these matters assists in coming to more clearly understood aspects.

Asa for suggesting that I am living in a glass house I would kindly ask you to point out to me where I have said anywhere in this thread or this forum that I am not also living in and affected by this same cycle of darkness as everyone else. the fact that I choose to point out what the ancients have said about the matter does not in any way suggest that I am better than anyone else or that I think myself beyond or somehow removed from the cycle of darkness.

I am simply discussing what many teachings around the world suggest regarding the evolution of the consciousness.

I cannot imagine that people who react in this way are ignorant of this, so I conclude that it deliberate mockery.

But I refrain from actually main accusations toward anyone in particular and will let those of such intention fall into that category by their own responses.

Now if we can get back to a civil intelli9gent conversation let's discuss this with a little more understanding and a lot less defensive posturing. There is really no need for it because no one is attacking you. If you doubt your own understandings then maybe you should reconsider what you have adopted. But that doubt and insecurity should not bring you to a defensive role, for you would simply be defending that which you already are insecure about.




(07-10-2012, 05:10 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-10-2012, 11:30 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But even you have acknowledged in your statement the need to move one.
Not really.. I never said we need to move on. We need to realize we're not our circumstances or the balances we are in.. Change is inevitable.

YES CHANGE IS HAPPENING AND WE WILL MOVE ON AS THAT CHANGE TAKES PLACE. yOU SAID YOU WILL MISS THE EARTH ACKNOWLEDGING THE MOVING ON FROM IT.

Quote:I would not try to tell the family of an addict that it is nothing more than an adjustment that they should appreciate.

I would not equate sports, girlfriends food and life to an addiction to heroin or alcohol. In fact these what you call "addictions" make us stronger. They define us in that they allow us to find our balance with the world.

YES, i CAN SEE HOW A SICK HEROIN ADDICT HAVING LOST EVERYTHING IN LIFE TO HIS ILLNESS IS LIVING A MUCH MORE BALANCED LIFE?????

I know of the spiritual dogma that some people carry that all these things should be rejected and transcended. The buddha explained that if the string is bound too tight then the snare will break and produce no sound. If the string is bound too loose it will produce no sound. Only when the string is tied just right will she produce a beautiful melody.

The middle path is not about rejection or extremism. It is about embracing and surrendering to the gifts of this world. While accepting that we ourselves are not of it. Flexible enough not to break in the wind but strong enough to retain our own qualities.

NOONE SAID ANYTHING ABOUT REJECTION. I SAID THAT ONCE WE EXPERIENCE THIS DENSITY AND EVOLVE THROUGH THE LESSONS LEARNED HERE IT IS TIME TO MOVE ON TO THE NEXT SCHOOL OF DESIGN. THAT IS NOT REJECTION OF MOTHER EARTH, THAT IS ACKNOWLEDGING HER ROLE IN THE GRAND DESIGN OF THIS UNIVERSE.

From the top of my head I could quote you half a dozen verses and parables from varying religions and spiritual paths that explain the exact same principle.


I am very curious as to why so many are taking what I say as a suggestion that this world has nothing to offer, or that we should consider it something to reject and hate.

The fact that I suggest that our addictions to this world causes many to deliberately choose to separate themselves from the process of evolution and cease the development of their consciousness into Higher Being, does not in any way suggest that the things which were offered to us in this world have not been a wondrous learning experience to be appreciated and enjoyed.

But our Grand design is far more than as humans. You yourselves will attest to being the Creator. And yet as the Creator of an entire universe you are offended when one points out that the Earth is but one small step in the journey into Mystery, and one small footprint on the available universe.
Quote: Ask me that when she moves on.
We seem to mate up through thousands of lives.

Maybe in another thousand I might ask you.BigSmile

Shin'Ar

(07-10-2012, 09:37 PM)Pickle Wrote: [ -> ]
Quote: Ask me that when she moves on.
We seem to mate up through thousands of lives.

Maybe in another thousand I might ask you.BigSmile

I'd have to turn you down man, I already know we're incompatible. But keep your chin up though. lol
(07-10-2012, 06:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]YES CHANGE IS HAPPENING AND WE WILL MOVE ON AS THAT CHANGE TAKES PLACE. yOU SAID YOU WILL MISS THE EARTH ACKNOWLEDGING THE MOVING ON FROM IT.
Caps lock stuck? Smile I skipped the parts where you were just reframing my position. I think it's clear what I meant.

(07-10-2012, 06:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that I suggest that our addictions to this world causes many to deliberately choose to separate themselves from the process of evolution and cease the development of their consciousness into Higher Being, does not in any way suggest that the things which were offered to us in this world have not been a wondrous learning experience to be appreciated and enjoyed.
Are you sure that the "addictions" to this world stops people from evolving?

Us middle world/third density entities have very little perspective but enormous opinions....

Quote:But our Grand design is far more than as humans. You yourselves will attest to being the Creator. And yet as the Creator of an entire universe you are offended when one points out that the Earth is but one small step in the journey into Mystery, and one small footprint on the available universe.

Precisely... So if that is the case... How are we to judge that the man who polishes his mercedes on a sunday morning instead of going to church is not at the exact same spot in the grander scheme of things as the tibettan monk who achieves enlightenment at the exact same moment?

The only difference is our ego putting value in the one and not putting value in the other.

The creator created all things as equal. The creator is expressing himself with as much consciousness in the monk achieving enlightenment as he is expressing himself in the man who is polishing his biggest joy in life, his mercedes.

But... The monks enlightenment is proof of his advanced beingness is it not? Ask him to polish your car, if it does not shine without any spots afterwards he's only good at one specific aspect in life. Whether he's better requires an ego to judge. If you let go of the ego you'll only be able to experience both with boundless compassion.
Pages: 1 2