Bring4th

2.2 Questioner: Could you tell us something of your historical background and your contact with earlier races on this planet? Then we would have something to start with.

.....However, this entity’s beliefs were accepted by very few. His priests gave lip service only, without the spiritual distortion towards seeking. The peoples continued in their beliefs. When this entity was no longer in this density, again the polarized beliefs in the many gods came into their own and continued so until the one known as Muhammed delivered the peoples into a more intelligible distortion of mind/body/spirit relationships.

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Sorry if this is the wrong section of the forum.
I don't exactly have one thing to say, just a bunch of thoughts i feel i need to put out.

Does this mean Islam was delivered by Ra? considering the way the Quran was written, it sounds exactly like Muhammed (the prophet of Islam) served as a channel. He used to enter trance-like states with his friends sitting around him and writing the words down. Thus making the Quran the most read, and interpreted, channeled text in the history of mankind.

when i first read the Ra material books a few years ago i was disappointed to see they didn't follow on the subject.

Since Islam was the creative force of a new state/empire, one of its main purposes was filling a political vacuum. I think that because it contains many laws in that context, it is easy for people to get lost in the superficial of it.

It would be interesting to hear what Ra think about Islam today. Did it serve most of its purpose and should be separated from state? like in Turkey for instance, which underwent a secularization in the early 20th century. This is interesting because the Quran offers a full political system.

Its just frustrating for me, all whats going on with Islam, Muslims, western attack on Islam, terrorism etc.


Ill try to finish on a high note:
I hope the "Arab Spring" will slowly produce a more progressive form of Islam, balancing between the right things and the things that should be left in the past.
The people will need time, in Egypt for example: The Muslim brotherhood has been oppressed for decades, so its no wonder they won the election. The case is similar in many Arabic countries.
I think the people need time to go through the religious state phase.
I hope they realize this is their chance to show the world Islam isn't the satanic/barbaric religion some anti islamic westerns try to portray it as, but a beautiful one from which the whole world can learn a thing or two.


Any hate/ignorant talk on Islam/Muslims, from the kind i hear so often today, isn't welcome in this thread. Other opinions are more than welcome.

So what does the Islamic 'bible' tell us?
Look at the name - Quoran - or maybe Quo-Ra-n?
Could this work have originated from the teachings of Quetzalcoatl and Ra?
I think yes.
Obviously the original work has been manipulated throughout history just like our bible but this seems to me to explain the source of the material as well as being congruent with what Ra told us regarding the 'other group' working on the american continent who did not give up as quickly.

Not sure about the etymology but its possible. The word is easily connected to Arabic (i speak Arabic).
decent info in wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quran

I believe the original work wasn't manipulated through time because its somewhat impossible, but it is distorted, as is the case with every channel. It's totally distorted because of the world Muhammed lived in at the time.
If you knew Arabic i think you would feel the same.

what are the main themes of Quetzalcoatl's teachings? I'm ignorant in this department.

"what Ra told us regarding the 'other group' working on the american continent who did not give up as quickly."
can you explain please?

(07-08-2012, 08:36 AM)LetGo Wrote: [ -> ]"what Ra told us regarding the 'other group' working on the american continent who did not give up as quickly."
can you explain please?

I am not him, but I can add that bit. When Ra describes the distribution of information and teachings about the Law of One and the state of being in this Planet around the time they came, there was an other group in South America working with the tribes there, while Ra worked in Egypt. Ra has withdrawn once they realized that the information is not only not so popular, but that it gets distorted and abused very, very quickly.

Law of One, Session 1 Wrote:1.4 Questioner: Could you give me a little more detail about your role with the Egyptians?

Ra: I am Ra. The identity of the vibration Ra is our identity. We as a group, or what you would call a social memory complex, made contact with a race of your planetary kind which you call Egyptians. Others from our density made contact at the same time in South America, and the so-called “lost cities” were their attempts to contribute to the Law of One.

We spoke to one who heard and understood and was in a position to decree the Law of One. However, the priests and peoples of that era quickly distorted our message, robbing it of the, shall we say, compassion with which unity is informed by its very nature. Since it contains all, it cannot abhor any.

When we were no longer able to have appropriate channels through which to enunciate the Law of One, we removed ourselves from the now hypocritical position which we had allowed ourselves to be placed in. And other myths, shall we say, other understandings having more to do with polarity and the things of your vibrational complex, again took over in that particular society complex.

Does this form a sufficient amount of information, or could we speak further?

Thank you, i remember now.

"the 'other group' working on the american continent who did not give up as quickly"

The thing is: Islam probably is the last contact that happened on a cultural level, 600-700A.D is probably after the south american attempts.
I'm confused

According to Islam, the Quran was delivered by the angel Gabriel. Is Gabriel associated with any faction/deity?

Gabriel is a social memory complex that comprises a very diverse set of entities, like all other archangels. Each archangel (social memory complex) has a theme and via the Way of Attraction entities that associates with that theme can become part of that archangel.

seems to me this means archangels are social memory complexes who belong to the confederation mention in the Ra material.
Do we know which social memory complex is Gabriel? the "ET name" so to speak.

might provide a clue:
"...Muslims also revere Gabriel for a number of historical events predating the first revelation. Muslims believe that Gabriel was the angel who informed Zachariah of John's birth as well as Mary of the future birth of Jesus and that Gabriel was one of three angels who had earlier informed Abraham of the birth of Isaac."

Considering that Islam is an Abrahamic religion, it's possible that the entity formerly known as Yahweh had some role in it's formation. It is especially similar to Judaism.

similar, and yet very different.

What would yahweh having a role in it's formation mean? i mean considering Yahweh.


The way i understood the LOO the first time: Ra was directly involved in founding Islam.
Another thing: considering Islam is relatively new, less than 1400 years old. And the whole thing about Muhammad being the last prophet, which i think is true (arguably not, i guess), means the confederation had a wide agreement regarding its formation.

Note: I want to say that this forum is amazing. In any other forum iv'e been to, especially with Americans, the amount of blind hate towards Islam is stunning. I know some people may feel their resent to Islam is just, but most people don't consider the difference between a religion and the people following it, between certain groups/individuals and a whole people. Or some people who call themselves christian while harboring a great amount of hate in them.
I'm proud of you guys

And btw I'm not a Muslim, maybe ill discuss my background if the opportunity arises.

(07-08-2012, 08:36 AM)LetGo Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the original work wasn't manipulated through time because its somewhat impossible, but it is distorted, as is the case with every channel. It's totally distorted because of the world Muhammed lived in at the time.
If you knew Arabic i think you would feel the same.

WOW! Thank you so much for starting this thread. Would you be able to explain what you meant in the above statement? I'd really would like to know more about it if you have the time to explain.

thank you
This will be long, but i'll enjoy it!

In the first part I will include and merge parts of relevant wikipedia articles to save me time struggling with the English language. However, only parts which reflect my knowledge and what i believe to be true, and are simply better put than what i could manage.

To answer both question you need to first understand the situation in Arabia (The Arabian Peninsula) before Islam. And i mean relevant to the Arabs and not more ancient civilizations, which are probably linked but irrelevant to this discussion.

The pre-Islamic era is called "jahiliyyah" in Arabic, which comes from the root word meaning ignorance. Its mostly meant in connection to religion, as idol worship and polytheism was spread through the land. The people were separated in the form of tribes, only two of which are known to have been Christian and Jewish. There are positive aspects like hospitality which Arabs are known for till today, and also poetry which held an important position and was mostly used for praise of the tribe and lampoons denigrating other tribes. A few poets were considered great also after Islam and some texts are studied even today and hold a high position in the Arabic literature.
see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanged_Poems

There was a lack of a legal system. Disputes were usually solved by battle and war. The tribes of Makkah (main city) were constantly feuding with one another. Raids are known to have been common mean with which to obtain cattle/goods and even women.

At this time women held a woefully low position. They had no human or legal rights and were treated as the possessions of their fathers and then husbands. One of the known practices to have been common at the time is the burying of women alive. As infants because a tribe could sustain only so much people, and depending on the situation sometimes men were favored. Also it's said that a tribe would bury women alive before an incoming raid, one they couldn't repel, just so the raiders won't be able to take them. This was forbidden in the Quran btw.
I'd like to mention that the Quran, contrary to Islam seen as degrading to women today, was revolutionary in the status it gave women, considering the time and settings of curse.

And now regarding what you asked for, Why I think changing the Quran is impossible:
The Quran is regarded as the finest piece of literature in the Arabic language, up till today of curse . I have only read a minor part of it but it seems to be evident, and also agreed upon by Arabic scholars. It is simply inimitable, as a masterpiece in every way. The entire book has a certain melody to it, which partially explains why so many people have known, and know, the entire book by hard (over 77,000 words).
Problem is, you cannot judge the Quran and its linguistic "miracles" if you do not speak Arabic. It stands alone in that category of the linguistic level. None of the long poems mentioned before, or any other post-Islamic poetry, even comes close to the level.
It is regarded as the main miracle of Muhammad, and proof of his prophethood.

Anyway, that question has never bothered me. What bothers me sometimes is that many things in the Quran are the way they are because of the settings in which it emerged. And that's what i meant by saying it has distortions. Maybe its not distorted per se, but considering the following:
It emerged in an anarchical society, and so the Quran is a book by which you can run a country. It contains some clearly stated rules regarding laws of inheritance for example. The society was also based on the rule of force, thus much attention was given to the strength/rule/unquestionable power of God. As a joke i used to entertain the idea of Jesus, with his unique message, coming instead of Muhammed at that time. I honestly believe he wouldn't have survived a day.

I think every religion, as it emerges, is somehow "tailored" to the society in which it rises. The Quran contains many strict rules, which were meant for bringing order to a broken mess of a land. Muhammed had to "fight his way" many times against different tribes, thus the Quran contains a lot of information regarding the justice of battle in the name of the one creator so to speak. That in turn explains why concepts like martyrdom, and jihad, are very important in Islam. Although these concepts may be interpreted in a variety of ways. Also, the worship of idols and such being so dominant at the time could account for the intolerance Islam holds for such things, considering one of its purposes was eradicating it, and spreading the belief in the one and only God.

Although I'm not a Muslim I've always been fascinated by Islam. Regardless, its also a part of my History/culture.
Follow up questions will be appreciated.

P.S Don't take everything as a 100% fact, this is my opinion and take on a matter from my own life experience.

(07-09-2012, 06:23 PM)LetGo Wrote: [ -> ]What bothers me sometimes is that many things in the Quran are the way they are because of the settings in which it emerged. And that's what i meant by saying it has distortions. Maybe its not distorted per se, but considering the following:

....

I think every religion, as it emerges, is somehow "tailored" to the society in which it rises.

Amen brother... This is the crux for me.

Just like when a God or higher entity speaks to us they speak in english they also speak in the language of our time and our culture. So if the words are passed to us from a different time or culture. We need to distill the esence from it..

Taking things literally as they are transferred all the time is generally a stupid idea.

If God had wanted us to think he would have given us brains...
Oh... Wait....

Yes Ali, good point.
Very exciting times ahead of us

Salam

"Obviously the original work has been manipulated throughout history just like our bible"

In Islam, people who memorize the entire Koran are called "Hafiz." This is a big deal in Islam, and thousands of people have earned this title of respect. I think the idea was to ensure that none of the precious wording be lost, even if every book were burned.

(07-11-2012, 01:26 PM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]In Islam, people who memorize the entire Koran are called "Hafiz." This is a big deal in Islam, and thousands of people have earned this title of respect.

I've always been impressed with that feat. Shows what the human mind and memory is capable of when set to a task with faith.

Was Muhammed a wanderer just like Jesus?

No idea.
He probably was one, but not sure if "just like" Jesus.
Jesus had a message that he himself represented, while Muhammad is reported to have received his first revelation at the age of 40.
From LOO we know that he probably agreed to serve as channel before incarnating. Being the leader he turned out to be, and the way what he said and did is revered, it seems he was more than just a channel. So being a wanderer is very possible.

see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophetic_biography

---

Bashar, if you know the channel, refers to them as representations of the collective consciousness of our planet, and not wanderers.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R8ni2D14XE

If Muhammed was "the last," then what about Carla, Edgar Cayce, Abraham, etc.

(07-19-2012, 11:06 AM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]If Muhammed was "the last," then what about Carla, Edgar Cayce, Abraham, etc.

At least 65 million at this time.

He was definitively not the last one.

Was thinking about this thread earlier today.

I believe that many Muslims would say that Arabic is the language of God, or that translating the Koran is impossible, immoral, etc. I have nothing against Arabic, in fact my grandparents were native speakers and my father also spoke it, but I believe there have been similar struggles or themes in Christianity.

For centuries the Christian church insisted, I believe, that Latin was the language of God and of the Bible. Also, I believe that even to this day there are some Christians who believe that the King James Bible is the only valid version, as proclaimed by God.

As long as a religion is inextricably linked to a certain piece of land or to a certain language, it will be a limited incomplete religion.

I guess that according to Ra, religion is a distortion, anyway.

(07-19-2012, 12:46 PM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]Was thinking about this thread earlier today.

I believe that many Muslims would say that Arabic is the language of God, or that translating the Koran is impossible, immoral, etc. I have nothing against Arabic, in fact my grandparents were native speakers and my father also spoke it, but I believe there have been similar struggles or themes in Christianity.

For centuries the Christian church insisted, I believe, that Latin was the language of God and of the Bible. Also, I believe that even to this day there are some Christians who believe that the King James Bible is the only valid version, as proclaimed by God.

As long as a religion is inextricably linked to a certain piece of land or to a certain language, it will be a limited incomplete religion.

I guess that according to Ra, religion is a distortion, anyway.

A good explanation from Bashar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1R8ni2D14XE

I'm not going to argue over if he was the last or not.

I don't think Arabic is the language of God, and I don't think Muslims would say that.
It was simply delivered in the Arabic Language, as a masterpiece.
When translated it loses the uniqueness while turning into an interpretation.
You can read the Quran in the language you understand, but anyone who wants to really study it must do so in Arabic.
I think its wrong to say its inextricably linked to land/language, its spread all over the world.

Of curse its a distortion in some way, Ra is also a distortion.

There is a difference between the church, what Christians say, and the teaching of Jesus.

Current Understanding of Islam is that Creator and creation are distinct and there is prohibition on worshiping any creation as God (The sin is called shirk in Islam ) whereas Ra's primary message is Oneness of Universe wherein we are all divine. Only Sufism ( A spiritual form of Islam ) comes close to Ra's message due to their similar understanding of oneness - its called "Wahdat al-Shuhud (Apparentism, or Unity of Witness) " .

Sufis claim their practice originated from Prophet Mohammad.

Very interesting. I think the same phenomenon would exist in many Christian groups. I remember in school I was taught that "Pantheism" (which I understand to mean that God is everything and everything is God) is a form of Christian heresy which has been harshly punished at times.

I have always found it to be self-evident that if God is Infinite, then there can be nothing else but God.

I was moved to tears many times in the arabic speaking countries I have lived and worked in.
Prayer time is a very spiritual moment, the air is 'thick' and enchanting, something we rarely experience in the west (apart from the odd Royal wedding).
You need not understand one word of arabic to fully enter into the spirit of the religion.
I have traveled with wife and small daughter throughout these regions and have never encountered anything but a warm reception from the locals.
Maybe as Ra put it did Mohammed offer his peoples a more 'refined' or less distorted version of the LOO.

yes suraj, well put.
It just comes to show what we talked about earlier, about the connection between Islam and the environment it started in.
The strong prohibition on worshiping any creation could be linked to idol worship being so common in the area.
Another possibility, the Quran is regarded by many to fix the mistakes of the past. With this in mind, this aspect may have something to do with the Christian church and the way their worship developed.

Ashim:
I also enjoy listening to the call for prayer, it really is very enchanting.
Would you mind telling us about some of the countries/cities you've been to?

(07-28-2012, 08:11 PM)LetGo Wrote: [ -> ]yes suraj, well put.
It just comes to show what we talked about earlier, about the connection between Islam and the environment it started in.
The strong prohibition on worshiping any creation could be linked to idol worship being so common in the area.
Another possibility, the Quran is regarded by many to fix the mistakes of the past. With this in mind, this aspect may have something to do with the Christian church and the way their worship developed.

One thing I think that I could never reconcile with Christianity is the worship of images of God (as a bearded white man, to be sure) even though the Bible states that we shouldn't worship idols. I think that Islam's shift in focus from the image to the word is important.

Ashim you reminded me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2YvCGFXdeI


I also found this, seems to be in a church. If anyone could shed some light:
(and for people who want to have an idea of how the call to prayer may sound like)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wJ9PFpzx...re=related

There are also beautiful hymns in Christianity. There are some in Arabic which ill post if i can find on youtube.

EDIT
Spaced: yea, that is something that is bothering me. I have a problem with most of the Churches today. Had to be in one a few weeks ago for a wedding and well...distortion is the only word to put it. I'm talking about the things they say, and especially how they relate to Jesus.
that particular church had no figures/paintings except a big cross though.

Many who considers themselves to be Christian also do not like the image of God as a white man with a beard. Those images of God make me think of a warlord. I think that idea arose as people in those societies had no other concept for a powerful entity than that of warlord (or priest).

I've thought that jihad was about an individual figuring out his/her own heart and mind. An internal struggle for truth.

The current distortion is interpreting jihad as an external war, to hate and kill anyone who is not Islamic.

It's so unfortunate, Law Books, Constitutions, Spiritual Texts, any book can all be interpreted in any conceivable way.

In my favorite translation of the Qur'an (Chapter 2, between 256 and 259) it says "There shall be no compulsion in religion." The sentence continues to seem to mean, that those who support those who choose Islam are strong and dependable.

Perhaps those words were written to support those who choose Allah, and to shame those who try to stop this new (new at the time) religion. But I think that many, probably most Muslims, do not believe in compulsion (certainly not violence) as a way to start or stop any religion.

I also believe that just as there is only One God in Islam, there is also only One God in Judaism. Another similarity is the idea of That One not being called by any name. Jews have many ways to refer to That One (Adonai means Lord, and Ha Shem means The Name, etc. etc.). I believe that Allah is a word which translates as God, and is not in fact the name of God. Is that correct?