Bring4th

Hello everyone,

This is a topic I have been pondering for some time. I do not fully understand the purpose of the STS path... I do not understand why it exists. There are two things that I have often heard as a way of explaining STS. One is, of course, free will. Entities have the free will to be of STS if they so choose. The other is a mystical belief of mine that all things, that is to say, ALL things in the universe must have a balance of some sort. I will expand on these two ideas and discuss some other aspects of my STS confusion below. (session and question numbers added in parentheses where needed). I will also acknowledge that my own bias is STO and as such I have a somewhat biased view of STS (if I may say... ) I am of course writing from my STO perspective and not a balanced perspective and as such my logic may well be flawed or naive when viewed from a larger perspective. Yet I do not find much solace in this possibility, at least at this point in my development. One last notation- when I speak of the STS path, I am mostly speaking to the extreme STS entities that go out of their way to be of STS, so that they might (consciously or not) become more STS polarized and progress in that fashion. Not so much the lesser, shall we say mixed polarity entities that are acting mostly from basic survivalist positions in life. I'm talking about the Himmlers, Kahns, etc.

So...

Free will
So, in a universe governed by free will and with a large enough spread of diversity in the way of sparks of creation from the god source (i.e. entities such as ourselves) we should naturally run in to just about every walk of life imaginable. This makes sense to me. And yet, how is it that as many as 10% of all third density harvestable entities should choose the negative path (65.13) when the second distortion of the Law of One is unconditional love (27.11)? I understand that the first distortion is indeed freewill, second being love which is to say freewill exists first and foremost with love being secondary. Yet it is paradoxical that as many as 10% could interpret the second distortion in (from my view) such a distorted way. I would rather expect 1% if any.

Balance
Every action has an opposite and equal reaction...? The Ying needs a Yang? This is what Ra seems to indicate is required before returning to the creator, and what 6th density is all about (16.19, 47.5). But, why is it that a seemingly loving creator (my naivete again?) would seek to know elements of itself that is harmful to itself (STS actions as perceived by the victim)? I think we could make a case that god is loving because we were split off from god in the beginning, we exist, we are. Or is it that the supposed STS entity would see this as an un-loving act, to have to experience separation?

A dead end path...
As we have learned from the Ra material, STS entities can only travel so far along their chosen path. (can't find session) In mid-sixth density, the negative entity realizes that it cannot progress any further without realizing that it must love others as it loves itself in order to master the lesson of unity. Is it just my perspective that it seems highly awkward for an entity to progress on a spiritual path for millions of years with a misguided premise before finally realizing the "correct" path?

Further speculation...
One might also argue that without STS, STO would be meaningless. But I would challenge that idea.

I think it would be perfectly reasonable if we imagined a completely different paradigm of our reality. Suppose with me for a minute, that there is NO STS path. God is only about love, and we are all creations of love in physical manifest form. However, we do have a thick veil about us. This veil should be more than sufficient catalyst to create any and all opportunities (seemingly STS actions) for STO action. However the key difference is that everyone who participates in STS actions (murder, theft, hatred, etc) are not working from deep subconscious desires to polarize in STS or "evil" ways, but are simply mis-guided, emotionally traumatized or otherwise suffering entities. After their death they are welcomed back in to the spirit world and undergo much healing, learning what they did wrong and why, and then reincarnating later on with the intent of doing better at those life lessons. This is the paradigm that Michael Newton has observed in his books 'Journy of Souls' and 'Destiny of Souls'.

In conclusion (for now), I will state that the STS path is one in which I am more than ready to 'leave behind' as Q'uo might suggest I do. If I cannot find resolve on this I will surely do so. In the meanwhile I welcome any and all comments on my perspectives, and hopefully I can find some understanding.

Love and Light to all,
Lavazza

Take it down to the microcosm.

In any moment we get to choose good or evil. Life or death. And if an entity is given free will in order to make this choice. The death must exist. Otherwise we would be automatons.

However, in order for the death choice to actually really exist, it has to be taken to an extreme. It can't just stop real early. And in an infinite creator, huge extremes exist and need to be expressed.

Thus the path is created. There is a destination that some entities wish to go and so there are entites which want to go there.

I think a lack of understanding of the negative polarity is one of the things that has really held back a great deal of people (theorists for instance). My view on Marxist theories is that Marx simply underestimated the evil of some people.

I can't believe I am suggesting this, but if you ever get the chance to see a sci-fi show called Angel, about a vampire with a soul. There is an episode called 'Reprise' that sums up evil perfectly.

STS is simply a choice that a minority of souls make in which they develop the mind and not the HEART... so it is a turning away from LOVE for all including self and an embracing of love of Self and not everything else... everything else is to be used for the whims of the MIND this leads to acts of Evil of course because the mind is continually creating and not everything it creates is in the best of interest of the self and others.. Stalin is a good example of STS as was Ghangis Khan and most recently Charles Taylor of Liberia, Joseph Fritzl of Austria, Charles Manson--- all charismatic Service to Self individuals---- all created acts of immense Evil for their own self interested agendas... serving the self. Why STS gets so must attention is that it is a minority wrecking havoc on large populations of people, swaths of land and the Mother Earth... this is why they get so much attention-- when in reality they respresent a small portion of humanity.

--fairyfarmgirl

To be honest I haven't been able to understand STS either...

I think the distinction between developers of the mind and developers of the heart that fairyfarmgirl makes is probably a very good distinction. Not all thinkers are STS oriented though. So maybe the heart is the only relevant factor.. If that's so then STS doesn't develop the heart and therefore feels isolated from its surroundings and thus acts as if they are. And STO develops the heart and feels integrated with their surroundings. That seems to make sense.

This is the function of the energetic heart. And since the heart is connected to Christ consciousness which is 4d consciousness the STO path would be the most obvious path to follow to get from here to 4d.

Ra tells us theres a narrow passaged way on the STS side too. I don't get what that is, and I don't get how it gets you into Christ consciousness. Maybe it's some kind of god like power trip in an empty universe.

An STS has worked to circumvent the opening of the heart (a complete lack of compassion. LOVE or regard for others) and actively develops the mind completing the cycle when the kundalini pierces the veil but no heart chakra... This is why they are devoid of the emotions of Love and Compassion... the Mind is unable to develop Compassion or Love on its own it needs the Energetic HEART in which to do so. LOVE with a Capital L means universal LOVE not love with a lowercase l which is sacrel chakra infatuation.

--fairyfarmgirl

An infinite omnipotent being living as sea of perfection decides to play make believe and begins by breaking itself up in a perfect fashion so as to break up the monotony of infinite perfection. The perfection of the breakup is perfectly realized from the omnipotent beings perspective, but from the perspective of a fragment, not pefectly realized. As these fragments 'coalesce' and become 'more one', they realize more of this truth, but in so doing, also begin to realize that the fragmentation was done on purpose ... quite the conundrum ... as how is this realization to be handled? Should all the other smaller fragments be informed of this realization? Maybe the omnipotent being wanted this experience, as it was done purposefully, and the experience of each fragment as experienced by the whole, and other larger coalesced fragments, was unique and novel and desirable for its novelty. To alter this would be to go against the greater will of the original omnipotent beings perspective.

A single fragment with this knowledge (or what it can hold from it's perspective, ever-incomplete until unity), might choose to use its knowledge (that it cannot be separated, and may as well 'enjoy the ride' as 'master') for its own 'benefit' ... which is also a unique experience ... treasured equally (unconditionally) by the omnipotent being (upon unity ... which is always as time is an illusion) ...

Other fragments with this knowledge (or what it can hold from it's perspective, ever-incomplete until unity), might choose to rejoice in the knowledge of future unity, and work together within the illusion until unity ... also a unique experience ...

The primal force being free will (for all fragments from smallest to largest until unity is realized by all) ... the true knowledge being that we cannot be separated ...

---

Just my imagination wandering based on all the musings here at llresearch, bring4th, joshiah's channelings, and from the reflection of myself I glimpse in the eyes of others and in the silence ...

Hi Lavazza,

I know we've touched on this topic before, so I've taken the liberty of copying from an earlier post. Since you've posted this on the Law of One forum, I will approach it primarily from what we glean from Ra themself:

Ra, Book IV, Session 77 Wrote:Questioner: Would it be possible for this work of our density to be performed if all of the sub-Logoi chose the same polarity in any particular expression or evolution of a Logos? Let us make the assumption that our sun created nothing but, through the first distortion, positive polarity.

There was no product except positive polarity. Would work then be done in fourth density and higher as a function of only the positive polarization evolving from the original creation of our sub-Logos?

Ra: I am Ra. Elements of this query illustrate the reason I was unable to answer your previous question without knowledge of the Logos involved. To turn to your question, there were Logoi which chose to set the plan for the activation of mind/body/spirit complexes through each true color body without recourse to the prior application of free will. It is, to our knowledge, only in an absence of free will that the conditions of which you speak obtain. In such a procession of densities you find an extraordinarily long, as you measure time, third-density; likewise, fourth density. Then, as the entities begin to see the Creator, there is a very rapid, as you measure time, procession towards the eighth density. This is due to the fact that one who knows not, cares not.

Let us illustrate by observing the relative harmony and unchanging quality of existence in one of your, as you call it, primitive tribes. The entities have the concepts of lawful and taboo, but the law is inexorable and all events occur as predestined. There is no concept of right and wrong, good or bad.

It is a culture in monochrome. In this context you may see the one you call Lucifer as the true light-bringer in that the knowledge of good and evil both precipitated the mind/body/spirits of this Logos from the Edenic conditions of constant contentment and also provided the impetus to move, to work and to learn.

Those Logoi whose creations have been set up without free will have not, in the feeling of those Logoi, given the Creator the quality and variety of experience of Itself as have those Logoi which have incorporated free will as paramount. Thusly you find those Logoi moving through the timeless states at what you would see as a later space/time to choose the free will character when elucidating the foundations of each Logos.

Questioner: I guess, under the first distortion, it was the free will of the Logos to choose to evolve without free will. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

From the simplest level, what Ra is saying is that there is a direct relationship between the Logos' choice to allow free will within its creations (e.g., 3D entities), and the availability of "evil" (or less judgmentally, "negativite polarity"). This makes perfect sense in that where there is no good/evil dichotomy, there is no "choice" just as where there is no free will there is no "choice". The other necessary aspect for the granting of free will though, is the removing of conscious knowledge of ones inherent godliness. This we refer to as the veil (note also, that the words veil and evil are anagrams... do you think this is a coincidence?).

But the existence of evil goes even deeper than veiling and free will. It touches on the original reason for our existence. Recall that we are here to help the One Creator experience himself. Before the existence of "the choice", all 3D experiences were of a much more harmonic and peaceful (monochrome) nature, as you describe in your original post. Although this made for easier lives for the 3D entities, it produced much less variety of experiences than could occur in a dichotomic world, and it also complicated the process of polarization and advancement due to this comfortable existence. In addition though, consider how much more colorful life is with the veil:

Ra, Book IV, Session 95 Wrote:Questioner: Thank you. In the last session you indicated in the statement about the immature male meeting the immature female that the information exchanged was quite different with respect to what occurred because of the veil. Would you give an example of the information exchange prior to the veil for the same case?

Ra: I am Ra. Given this same case; that is, the random red-ray sexual arousal being activated in both male and female, the communication would far more likely have been to the subject of the satisfying of that red-ray, sexual impulse. When this had occurred other information such as the naming could be offered with clear perception. It is to be noted that the catalyst which may be processed by the pre-veil experience is insignificant compared to the catalyst offered to the thoroughly bemused male and female after the veil. The confusion which this situation, simplistic though it is, offers is representative of the efficiency of the enlargement of the catalytic processes occurring after the veiling.

This quote really brings home the importance then of free will -> veil -> evil -> choice in terms of creating much more varied and interesting experiences which we will eventually distill and bring back to the Infinite creator for his bemusement and enjoyment.

One of the other things you mention as the idea of "harming" an other self. Personally, I always try to recall that there is no way to truly "harm" another creator. What we have in stead is the appearance of harm within the illusion of our existence. The purpose of this is three fold, first it provides the person to whom the harm is done the opportunity to polarize (either positively through forgiveness, or negatively through control of the resulting feelings) from the catalyst, second it provides the person who did the harm the same opportunities for polarization (through forgiveness of self and reparation, or control over the feelings of causing others pain), third, and I think most importantly, it provides the creator the vastly more varied experiences of both entities.

Before the veil, 3D existence included remembering that we all are one, so experiences like intentional harm caused between 3D entities was essentially unheard of. Also, Ra mentions that it took these entities much longer to graduate to 4D, kind of like it's more difficult to motivate a child to go to work, if they already have a multimillion dollar trust fund. The veil changed all that, but I also find it fascinating to note that the Logos that first implemented the veil had no idea that STS might result from it. So STS is a wonderful example of how, through free will, the creator surprises even himself!

Just a few thoughts to chew on. Thanks for another great topic.

3D Sunset

(10-16-2009, 11:08 AM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ](note also, that the words veil and evil are anagrams... do you think this is a coincidence?).

Awesome post 3D sunset, I liked your insights quite a lot and agree with you completely.

Once humans began to choose STS acts of separation over the wholeness they experienced in Eden before, it started a vicious cycle of evil acts imprinted forever on our social consciousness and we all feel it. These occurances to me show a maturing process, due to our individual selves becoming more experienced with the lows and highs of pretending we are individuals apart from the infinite Creator.

So often are emphasized the differences between STS & STO, but, stepping back a bit from the fray, don't they really have more in common than not? Maybe they're comparable to Holley & Motocraft carburetors? They have different designs, but they get the same job done.

STS'ers carry various distortions up the line with them (such as infatuation with their own energies and experiences) and so do STO'ers (such as naivete and maybe a little less comparative motivation in blue ray affairs). [Ra had tough time getting through 5th D, no?] Indeed, as I recall it, Ra declared that it's just as hard for an STO entity to get it's 51% passing grade out of 3D as it is for the STS to get it's 95% because being genuinely 51% dedicated to STO is a whole lot harder than it sounds. So, although there are clear advantages to the STO path (comparatively less violent, more relaxed)--from a technical POV--it's hard to see much difference in function...only in means.


I'm being light-hearted about this and hope it doesn't spook anyone. For me, personally, discovering such a beautiful philosophical context for absolute acceptance of the "Dark Side" in the Ra Material was a key element in my metaphysical developement. When a person discovers within a variety of deep personal connections to horrendously repulsive stuff, it can be challenging to find a comprehensive perspective within which to appreciate it. Having been handed that gift at one time, I'm now turning it sideways and offering it back.

~P

(10-17-2009, 02:29 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Indeed, as I recall it, Ra declared that it's just as hard for an STO entity to get it's 51% passing grade out of 3D as it is for the STS to get it's 95% because being genuinely 51% dedicated to STO is a whole lot harder than it sounds.

Is it true that Ra states this? If it is I've got something to check out, I understand the 51% is trivial to achieve. As soon as someone actually wishes for STO polarisation you pretty much get that 51% with a carton of breakfast cereal. It's a simple consequence of a choice.

(10-17-2009, 08:57 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]Is it true that Ra states this? If it is I've got something to check out, I understand the 51% is trivial to achieve. As soon as someone actually wishes for STO polarisation you pretty much get that 51% with a carton of breakfast cereal. It's a simple consequence of a choice.

Session 17 Wrote:To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves.

Session 7 Wrote:...there are systems of study which enable the seeker of separation to gain these gateways.

This study is as difficult as the one which we have described to you...

Thanks very much, B., for looking up the Ra references.

Funny comment, AQ, about the breakfast cereal. What gave you the impression that graduation was a kind of party favor?

I like to think of graduation this way. I can't vouch for the historical accuracy of this, but someone once told me that the Ancient Greeks had a belief that pets who learn to have a truly loving relationship with their owners then become eligible for graduation to 3D. [There's comparable stuff in the Ra Material, I seem to recall.] In other words, they have learned to use their instrument in such a developed way that to simply remain playing in the 2D band isn't fun anymore. They instinctively search out a context where they can more thoroughly explore their newly developed skills.

In 3D we're given a rather cumbersome instrument to master and, obviously, not much of an owner's manual. In order to learn to use it, you first look to those around you for hints, but then, if you really want to develope sincere skill, you must look inside it to understand the inherent meaning and means of operation.

As skill developes, so too does the desire to play in a band and a context which are compatible with your own skill level. So, at graduation time, one is drawn instinctively, perhaps, to wander off in the direction of band-mates with comparable interest and skill.

Isn't it Ra (and/or Qu'o) that speaks about each chakra being like a note of the musical scale and service to the Eternal being like tuning each chakra so that it has the inherent flexibility to respond beautifully and effortlessly in response to any given catalyst? So, it would be like the hatha yogi who's trained the instrument of the physical body to respond elegantly to any given contortion, except the *deeper* instrument is the entirety of your own being. Sounds like fun, no? What could possibly be more fulfilling?

On the other hand, surprises that drop out of the breakfast cereal carton are cool, too.

~P

The whole idea of STS and STO has only given me negative feelings; a strange paradoxal catalyst which means nothing (STO -> STS & STS -> STO) yet is a forced requirement upon someone to become fully aware of a fuller reality... I want little part of such requirements, and it cannot be understood. It becomes quite irrelevant..
I wish to serve my other-selves, but I wish to do it without any limitations and rules forced upon me.
The only thing you ever need to do is what is in your heart to do.

Gasp, I am openly criticizing Ra! For me, this is the greatest disservice Ra has done to me.. and perhaps the only one. But with that disservice, I was very much encouraged to seek out other sources of channeled material. And that has been most meaningful, so I am grateful for this disservice which thus becomes a service (!).

Thanks B for the information.

(10-18-2009, 12:29 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Funny comment, AQ, about the breakfast cereal. What gave you the impression that graduation was a kind of party favor?

Not a party favor, a right of birth. How hard is it for a caterpillar to turn into a butterfly? That's basically been my position for the past few years, maybe the whole trip from the edge of 2d to the edge of 4d can be considered hard and difficult. But I don't really feel very taxed.

I oppose the notion that being good is hard. It's not. Causality tends to put more on your path of what you put on it. So that means if you deliver a service to others. Then you're going to be commended for it, thanked, encouraged, helped, and when you need the service there will be someone there to take care of it for you. If you choose to commit a service to self. Then others are going to dislike you for it, they will accuse you, oppose you and when you need a service they'll only push you under.

I exaggerate slightly but the principle exists.

Here's the full quote including the question by the way.

Ra Session 17 Wrote:Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult to attain harvestability upon than the positive?

Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a straight and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.

The questioner assumes that the negative path is harde, and Ra does not contradict! Instead he answers from that premise. Although I can't figure out exactly what he's saying.

Apparently it's easier to go STO than to go STS. Which is absolutely logical if you look at what happens in the world if you close your heart. It's basically like trying to navigate unfamiliar surroundings with your eyes closed. You tend to bump into things you do not see.

I get the feeling that the STS crowd is considered a different crows because Ra states "To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves" Which seems to contradict itself. Unless the missing hyphen means anything... It's like saying running 20 kilometers per hour is as hard as running 5. Unless he means that 5% is as hard for the STS guys as 51% is to STO oriented guys.

I still don't get this. Like I said I'm no expert on the Ra material. Even though I learned a tremendous amount from it. So maybe I should just sit back and let the grown ups talk. It's just my thoughts on the subject.

I completely agree with Ayadew on this. I've come to feel that just the concept of being STS or STO is in itself a stumbling block of sorts. I've spent quite some time focusing on the philosophy of both paths, and the implications of "trying" to go down one road as opposed to "being" on that path. Words suck, I don't think I'm explaining myself very well...

Sometimes I visit the forums on David Wilcock's site just to see what they're talking about there (I don't post there anymore), and I came across a thread titled "STS or STO, how about just Service to the One" or something like that. It really made me think about how I do believe we are all one mind/spirit/essence/etc. and that the concept of the two paths leading to unity are ridiculous. Do what is in your heart some say, and I agree...for me that means just being aware of my surroundings and my inner feelings/thoughts, and offering help to others when it feels right. Other than that, I do not TRY to do anything that would "increase polarity".

I don't agree with "increasing polarity"...I agree with "increasing my awareness of all being one". Know what I mean?

Godspeed as always.

Well put Turtle

AQ: I think there is an understanding that the negative path is more strenuous, more athletic than STO because it requires so much more focus to engineer and build a vehicle which is defiant of the natural flow. Almost complete negation of the natural inclination to be good is much more challenging than building upon it.

Is it hard to be good? Is passage to 4D+ a birthright? Well, as I read the material, the reason that choice in 3D took so much longer prior to the veil is that, yes, it is a great challenge to polarize one's energies in a STO pattern, even though it is abundantly obvious that, yes, this is one's birthright.

Another way of saying this might be that, after "awakening" to the knowledge one's existence as a spiritual entity, one can remain in bed for a great long time afterwards. "Awakening" and "polarization" are not synonymous. The former is revelatory, whereas the latter is a deep re-alignment of self born of many choices and actions made over time.


A & T: A few thoughts. Personally, I take STO & STS to be very useful guidelines for measuring reality by; but I agree entirely with you that they can be fixated on and turned into a stumbling block...especially so considering how easy it is to misinterpret all this when we're viewing it through an obscurant veil. Further, I feel that checking one's heart for an impression of all information (experience) is an essential part of discerning truth. However, increasing your polarity would be one way to enhance your ability to do this.

Ra describes polarity as the amperage across the terminals of a battery, the ability to do work. They say that a - entity with greater polarity has greater ability to switch to + than a less polarized negative entity because the former has more capacity to do work. Increasing polarity, then, isn't about scoring Brownie points; it's about regularizing the energies of your energy body allowing you to do more work ("work in consciousness", as they say). The more charged the flow of energy within you, the greater your polarity, the more clearly you can actually know what your heart has to tell you.

One other note on this. You might observe that as people learn to increase their polarity (or the strength of the "magical personality") that increased energy will need to flow somewhere. Very often it will slither off in the direction of charging theretofore neglected STS desires. The higher you build the polarity curve, the slipperier becomes the slope, so to speak.

~P

(10-19-2009, 12:51 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Increasing polarity, then, isn't about scoring Brownie points; it's about regularizing the energies of your energy body allowing you to do more work ("work in consciousness", as they say). The more charged the flow of energy within you, the greater your polarity, the more clearly you can actually know what your heart has to tell you.

I love the way you worded that...took the words right out of my mind, you psychic son of a...

Godspeed!

(10-19-2009, 04:26 AM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-19-2009, 12:51 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Increasing polarity, then, isn't about scoring Brownie points; it's about regularizing the energies of your energy body allowing you to do more work ("work in consciousness", as they say). The more charged the flow of energy within you, the greater your polarity, the more clearly you can actually know what your heart has to tell you.

I love the way you worded that...took the words right out of my mind, you psychic son of a...

Godspeed!

Sounds like that was good orange ray catalyst for you, T.

No crowding in your field intended. Maybe we were both squinting at the same page?

~P

Hello all!

Phoenix, Fairyfarmgirl, Ali Quadir, Ubergud, 3D Sunset, Kylissa, Peregrine, βαθμιαίος, Ayadew & Turtle: Thank you for your participation thus far! It's great to hear the comments and dialog from all of you. Some comments from me on select comments from previous posts:

Phoenix Wrote:Take it down to the microcosm. In any moment we get to choose good or evil. Life or death. And if an entity is given free will in order to make this choice. The death must exist. Otherwise we would be automatons. However, in order for the death choice to actually really exist, it has to be taken to an extreme. It can't just stop real early. And in an infinite creator, huge extremes exist and need to be expressed. Thus the path is created. There is a destination that some entities wish to go and so there are entites which want to go there.

Thank you for expressing it this way... it is helpful for me. That a path must exist if even just one entity wishes to traverse that path is what makes it work in my mind. Yet as many as 10% of 3rd density entities choose that road. It's almost unfathomable to me, yet I am not above admitting that I may well be extremely naive about the creation and workings of the creator.

fairyfarmgirl Wrote:Why STS gets so must attention is that it is a minority wrecking havoc on large populations of people, swaths of land and the Mother Earth... this is why they get so much attention-- when in reality they respresent a small portion of humanity.

I have to agree with you. Our media in the west is especially prone to focus on the negative people / actiosn in our society. Especially now that a lot of local news station and newspapers are being made obsolete by the internet, they have to find ways of making people pay attention to them. If it bleeds it leads, and if it's gushing blood so much the better. It's easy to get a dismal perspective on our world by watching the news.

ubergud Wrote:A single fragment with this knowledge (or what it can hold from it's perspective, ever-incomplete until unity), might choose to use its knowledge (that it cannot be separated, and may as well 'enjoy the ride' as 'master') for its own 'benefit' ... which is also a unique experience ... treasured equally (unconditionally) by the omnipotent being (upon unity ... which is always as time is an illusion) ...

Your post was like poetry to me. Thank you!

3D Sunset Wrote:This quote really brings home the importance then of free will -> veil -> evil -> choice in terms of creating much more varied and interesting experiences which we will eventually distill and bring back to the Infinite creator for his bemusement and enjoyment.

Thanks for digging up all those relevant quotes, 3D! It's helped me put STS in general in to more of a context, as to why it exists certainly. Though I am still somewhat baffled by the extent to which an entity could negatively polarize, and the sheer number of 3rd density people (10%!) that choose such a disharmonious path. Though I am learning to accept that it happens, if for nothing else because through free will any path must be opened to anyone who wishes to walk it.

Yet, the fact that there is a discrepency of 40% between STS and STO folk (10% STS 90% STO), should we deduce that there is a preferred path, that being STO? It seems to imply that the STS path is one of folly, as I'm sure most of us here agree that it is, even if we claim to say that all paths are equal in the eyes of the infinite one. Well, I'm sure they are, but certainly we of the STO path find the STS path a bit misguided if not silly. Then again, I'm sure the STS folk feel that STO is equally nonsensical. Yet, the numbers seem to speak the truth of this, 10% vs. 90%. Just putting the meat of this idea out of the chopping block for everyone to hack at.

As an aside, can you image the extent of evil that must exist out there? I caught this from this Saturday's Carla chat:

Carla Wrote:14:54:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› I remember when Don asked Ra what Genghis Khan was doing now. It turned out he was a shipping clerk. Kinda scary to think that the man who wiped out like 25% of China's peons at one point was in company with dudes badder than he was! More

14:54:50 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› In a way, Genghis probably thought he was in heaven! Because he had a chance now to learn STS from real masters of that game. More

14:55:16 ‹Bring4th_CarlaLisbeth› Do you have a follow-up to that, Brimann?

If Genghis Khan, in all of his tyanny was only able to graduate in to a world where his highest aspiration was a shipping clerk... Using this as a method of judging the extent of his negativity in relation to the whole, there must be some extremely, extremely, extremely negative entities out there who might rule that world, that from our perspective would be no different from Satan. (could this be where religions unconsciously adopted it's heaven and hell themes?) My only point in mentioning this is to again underscore what I perceive to be such complete misguidedness in the way of spirituality as to almost completely overwhelm my understanding. But again... such as it is or such as it may be, I am not a wise elder on a council but a mere hitchhiker on the path who in truth, does not understand yet seeks regardless.

ayadew Wrote:Gasp, I am openly criticizing Ra! Smile For me, this is the greatest disservice Ra has done to me.. and perhaps the only one. But with that disservice, I was very much encouraged to seek out other sources of channeled material. And that has been most meaningful, so I am grateful for this disservice which thus becomes a service (!).

I just wanted to chime in and add my support to your statement here. As much as I post here at Bring4th and really try to dive deeply in to the LOO material, I also do not find complete resonance in all of the teachings and also seek out other material when I am compelled to. I really feel that ALL elements of any material should be mentally, emotionally and spiritually thought about and meditated on in order to discern a complete truth for ones self. Else would we be much differernt than an organized religion, were we to not challenge that that did not resonate? I think not.

Ali Quadir Wrote:Not a party favor, a right of birth. How hard is it for a caterpillar to turn into a butterfly? That's basically been my position for the past few years, maybe the whole trip from the edge of 2d to the edge of 4d can be considered hard and difficult. But I don't really feel very taxed.

I oppose the notion that being good is hard. It's not. Causality tends to put more on your path of what you put on it. So that means if you deliver a service to others. Then you're going to be commended for it, thanked, encouraged, helped, and when you need the service there will be someone there to take care of it for you. If you choose to commit a service to self. Then others are going to dislike you for it, they will accuse you, oppose you and when you need a service they'll only push you under.

Yes, but, others with vastly different life experiences here on Earth would say exactly the opposite of what you have stated here and feel it to be of uttermost truth. For myself I tend to agree with you- but it's important to bear in mind that these are merely our perspectives and may not even speak for the majority.

Ali Quadir Wrote:I get the feeling that the STS crowd is considered a different crows because Ra states "To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves" Which seems to contradict itself. Unless the missing hyphen means anything... It's like saying running 20 kilometers per hour is as hard as running 5. Unless he means that 5% is as hard for the STS guys as 51% is to STO oriented guys.

It's interesting to hear it stated this way, mathmatically speaking you are completely correct! It would seem to make no sense at all, at first glance. I think if you place your beginning point in between 5 and 51% it makes more sense. That is to say, perhaps your average, spiritually un-enlightened or sleeping entity who is not overly STO or STS in his actions rests somewhere close to 23% STO. Making conscious efforts to go higher or lower than that number is difficult, and becomes more difficult the further you move away from 23%. In that sense it would be equally hard regardless of what you do. (and I am assuming this is only true of thrird density). Just some speculation. Cool train of thought you brought up!

Turtle Wrote:Sometimes I visit the forums on David Wilcock's site just to see what they're talking about there (I don't post there anymore), and I came across a thread titled "STS or STO, how about just Service to the One" or something like that. It really made me think about how I do believe we are all one mind/spirit/essence/etc. and that the concept of the two paths leading to unity are ridiculous. Do what is in your heart some say, and I agree...for me that means just being aware of my surroundings and my inner feelings/thoughts, and offering help to others when it feels right. Other than that, I do not TRY to do anything that would "increase polarity".

I don't agree with "increasing polarity"...I agree with "increasing my awareness of all being one". Know what I mean? Smile

I found this thought intriguing when I read it yesterday! Do you mean to say that you do not believe there are STS and STO paths, or that you just carry on without consciously thinking about either path but still believe that they exist? I would be up for plumbing the topic more. Certainly it is in line with a Newtonian outlook (that is, a Michael Newton outlook) in that all entities are essentially good and that evil that we observe on Earth is just veil related confusion and feelings of separation.

Loving the dialog everyone. Sorry for the 'wall of text' but I only have time to post once every few days. Cheers!

Ra Wrote:13.5 Questioner: Can you tell me of the first known thing in the creation?

Ra: I am Ra. The first known thing in the creation is infinity. The infinity is creation.

13.6 Questioner: From this infinity then must come what we experience as creation. What was the next step or the next evolvement?

Ra: I am Ra. Infinity became aware. This was the next step.

13.7 Questioner: After this, what came next?

Ra: I am Ra. Awareness led to the focus of infinity into infinite energy. You have called this by various vibrational sound complexes, the most common to your ears being “Logos” or “Love.” The Creator is the focusing of infinity as an aware or conscious principle called by us as closely as we can create understanding/learning in your language, intelligent infinity.

I interpret this as stating the following:

An infinite Creator can not create outside of itself, since it is infinite. An infinte Creator thus needs to contract a part of itself for creation to take place in. This would be where the focus of infinity into infinite energy takes place.

Hence, the very first action, after becoming aware, could in itself be stated to be STS, in the sense that it is a separation. Although, this early in the process of creation, the STS/STO definitions doesn't really make much sense.

Lavazza Wrote:Yet, the fact that there is a discrepency of 40% between STS and STO folk (10% STS 90% STO), should we deduce that there is a preferred path, that being STO?

Indeed, Ra indicates that our Logos does have a bias for STO, and those biases are actually experienced as early as 2D. Please forgive me once again including a long quote, but there is much meat in herein that is relevant to several of the discussions ongoing on this thread.

The Law of One, Book IV, Session 90 Wrote:Questioner: Then did our Logos hope to see generated a positive and negative harvest from each density up to the sixth, starting with the third, as being the most efficient form of generating experience known to It at the time of Its construction of this system of evolution?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

Questioner: Then built into the basis for the archetypes is possibly the mechanism for creating the polarization in consciousness for service to others and service to self. Is this, in fact, true?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes. You will notice the many inborn biases which hint to the possibility of one path’s being more efficient than the other. This was the design of the Logos.

Questioner: Then what you are saying is that once the path is recognized, either the positive or the negative polarized entity can find hints along his path as to the efficiency of that path. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. That which you say is correct upon its own merits, but is not a repetition of our statement. Our suggestion was that within the experiential nexus of each entity within its second-density environment and within the roots of mind there were placed biases indicating to the watchful eye the more efficient of the two paths. Let us say, for want of a more precise adjective, that this Logos has a bias towards kindness.

Questioner: Then you say that the more efficient of the two paths was suggested in a subliminal way to second density to be the service- to-others path. Am I correct?

Ra: I am Ra. We did not state which was the more efficient path. However, you are correct in your assumption, as you are aware from having examined each path in some detail in previous querying.

Questioner: Could this be the reason for the greater positive harvest? I suspect that it isn’t, but would there be Logoi that have greater negative percentage harvests because of this type of biasing?

Ra: I am Ra. No. There have been Logoi with greater percentages of negative harvests. However, the biasing mechanisms cannot change the requirements for achieving harvestability either in the positive or in the negative sense. There are Logoi which have offered a neutral background against which to polarize. This Logos chose not to do so but instead to allow more of the love and light of the infinite Creator to be both inwardly and outwardly visible and available to the sensations and conceptualizations of mind/body/spirit complexes undergoing Its care in experimenting.

Questioner: Were there any other circumstances, biases, consequences, or plans set up by the Logos other than those we have discussed for the evolution of Its parts through the densities?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

Questioner: What were these?

Ra: I am Ra. One more; that is, the permeability of the densities so that there may be communication from density to density and from plane to plane or sub-density to sub-density.

Questioner: Then as I see the plan for the evolution by this Logos it was planned to create as vivid an experience as possible but also one which was somewhat informed with respect to the infinite Creator and able to accelerate the progress as a function of will because of the permeability of densities. Have I covered accurately the general plan of this Logos with respect to Its evolution?

Ra: I am Ra. Excepting the actions of the unmanifested self and the actions of self with other-self, you have been reasonably thorough.

Lavazza Wrote:Then again, I'm sure the STS folk feel that STO is equally nonsensical.

I agree, they do. I will also share with you that I think Ra inadvertently misleads us when he says that STS entities must become STO in order to progress beyond mid-sixth density. It is true that they must embrace STO in order to progress, but so too must STO embrace STS, IMHO. Recall that beyond mid-sixth density, the entity is completing his outer works and is turning inward to ultimately merge with the creator. Thus, he must turn his back on all the helpless souls crying for service! Does this not sound like a selfish action? Similarly, in order to merge again with the creator, the STS entity must acknowledge that there exists a greater entity with which it desires to merge and bring its gifts of distilled experience. Does this not sound selfless?

So to me it seems that from the point of view of an STO entity the STS are becoming STO at mid 6D, and from the perspective of the STS entity, the STO are becoming STS at mid 6D. In truth, both are becoming balanced and have transcended polarity. They have met, as it were, in the middle.

Lavazza Wrote:If Genghis Khan, in all of his tyanny was only able to graduate in to a world where his highest aspiration was a shipping clerk... Using this as a method of judging the extent of his negativity in relation to the whole, there must be some extremely, extremely, extremely negative entities out there who might rule that world, that from our perspective would be no different from Satan. (could this be where religions unconsciously adopted it's heaven and hell themes?).

Ra said that Genghis Khan was currently performing a task equivalent to what we would call a shipping clerk, not that this was is highest aspiration. I think the best analogy would be that of a soldier entering the army. Even though he enters as a private, he has the aspirations of becoming much more. Given a self-harvested 4D- entity such as Genghis Khan, I think it is safe to conclude that he is utterly convinced that he will eventually become the commanding general. Still, progress takes time, and there are many lessons to learn as one grows. This is true of life in 4D+ as well as 4D-.

Recall also, that Jesus was just 4D+, so one could also say "there must be some extremely, extremely, extremely positive entities out there in the higher positive densities."

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

(10-19-2009, 01:09 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, but, others with vastly different life experiences here on Earth would say exactly the opposite of what you have stated here and feel it to be of uttermost truth. For myself I tend to agree with you- but it's important to bear in mind that these are merely our perspectives and may not even speak for the majority.

I wasn't explained these things as opinions but as laws of nature. I could be wrong of course. But to me it seems like you can choose every path you like, you can do what you want, but the consequences are yours to bear. And people can certainly disagree with this but that doesn't mean it's not true. I've seen people bear consequences for their behavior in events they consider unrelated. Opinion doesn't matter as much as causality..

I would argue this to be a good thing. Not because we get punished or rewarded for behavior. But because our behavior has causal consequences in our lives. Essentially if that were not the case. We would not be creators, we would not be able to affect our lives at all no matter what we do we'd never change anything on account of a personal choice.

Quote:It's interesting to hear it stated this way, mathmatically speaking you are completely correct! It would seem to make no sense at all, at first glance. I think if you place your beginning point in between 5 and 51% it makes more sense. That is to say, perhaps your average, spiritually un-enlightened or sleeping entity who is not overly STO or STS in his actions rests somewhere close to 23% STO. Making conscious efforts to go higher or lower than that number is difficult, and becomes more difficult the further you move away from 23%. In that sense it would be equally hard regardless of what you do. (and I am assuming this is only true of thrird density). Just some speculation. Cool train of thought you brought up!

I'm glad. Though I'm still not convinced. It seems weird to place complex reality on a one dimensional line. As if STS and STO are opposites, how can they be if all is one? Like I said before. I think it's a map useful in our immediate surroundings. And much easier to pass on than elaborate explanations of causality.

Turtle Wrote:Sometimes I visit the forums on David Wilcock's site just to see what they're talking about there (I don't post there anymore), and I came across a thread titled "STS or STO, how about just Service to the One" or something like that. It really made me think about how I do believe we are all one mind/spirit/essence/etc. and that the concept of the two paths leading to unity are ridiculous. Do what is in your heart some say, and I agree...for me that means just being aware of my surroundings and my inner feelings/thoughts, and offering help to others when it feels right. Other than that, I do not TRY to do anything that would "increase polarity".

I don't agree with "increasing polarity"...I agree with "increasing my awareness of all being one". Know what I mean?

This sums up my beliefs as well. I try to see myself in the broader perspective of the all and decide from there what's appropriate. I do see a place for polarity, but not in the us versus them teams.

(10-19-2009, 01:09 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]My only point in mentioning this is to again underscore what I perceive to be such complete misguidedness in the way of spirituality as to almost completely overwhelm my understanding.

Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some
love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter
of the unique and infinitely various Creator
choosing and playing among its experiences as a
child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find
the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games
refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some
find the night delicious, their picnic being pain,
difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination
of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different
picnic.
All these experiences are available. It is the free will
of each entity which chooses the form of play, the
form of pleasure.


Some like it hot, some like it cold. As they say, there's no accounting for taste.

I think most everyone has at some time felt how good it can feel to be "bad." Look, every good drama needs suspense created by a seeming threat, right? Many actors say that the evil characters offer the juicier roles.

Some people get bored playing conventional reindeer games and prefer to hunt in the darkness for hidden treasures or lost valuables or secret short cuts. Granted, it can be a very tough neighborhood to go exploring, but many people live that way in the outer planes already. Some people prefer the path less sheltered. The fact that the STO path is more crowded immediately makes it less attractive to some.

Perhaps what I've typed above makes sense enough, and still, maybe you're uncomfortable with the topic? I'll say this, *acceptance* of the STS path is a lot harder than understanding it. When you find yourself implicated in mercilessly heinous stuff, it makes self-acceptance a real challenge. So, in that sense, maybe the STS folks can't claim to have all fun? ;-)

~P

(10-19-2009, 03:46 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps what I've typed above makes sense enough, and still, maybe you're uncomfortable with the topic? I'll say this, *acceptance* of the STS path is a lot harder than understanding it. When you find yourself implicated in mercilessly heinous stuff, it makes self-acceptance a real challenge. So, in that sense, maybe the STS folks can't claim to have all fun? ;-)

As I understand it, self-acceptance, or acceptance of any kind, is one of the great dangers that STS individuals face. They must under all circumstances maintain control, both of self and, so far as they are able, of others. Ra hints that this is why the Orion group rarely contacts wanderers -- the risk of depolarization in the face of love, acceptance, and forgiveness is too great.

A bit of a synchronicity, a friend passed this along to me today. It's a few years old now but apparently was a hit on the internet when it came out... "Dr. Horrible's Sing-a-long blog"

http://www.hulu.com/watch/28343/dr-horri...along-blog

It's about 45 minutes long, and very enjoyable. Follow along with this thread in the back of your mind as context and you get at least one possible viewpoint of a STS perspective.

(10-19-2009, 05:58 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-19-2009, 03:46 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps what I've typed above makes sense enough, and still, maybe you're uncomfortable with the topic? I'll say this, *acceptance* of the STS path is a lot harder than understanding it. When you find yourself implicated in mercilessly heinous stuff, it makes self-acceptance a real challenge. So, in that sense, maybe the STS folks can't claim to have all fun? ;-)

As I understand it, self-acceptance, or acceptance of any kind, is one of the great dangers that STS individuals face. They must under all circumstances maintain control, both of self and, so far as they are able, of others. Ra hints that this is why the Orion group rarely contacts wanderers -- the risk of depolarization in the face of love, acceptance, and forgiveness is too great.

Sorry about that. I guess I wasn't typing clearly. What I meant to say was that self-acceptance is also one of the biggest challenges an STO-type faces. In my experience, the more deeply you explore what's there crawling around in your unconscious self, the more intense the light, yes; but abundant intensity of dark power lurks there as well. It can be quite a shock (or a blow) to uncover...well, I won't go into it here.

But it's interesting to note that the STS skills of searching through darkened psyche-scapes can benefit the STO who's seeking deeper polarization. The difference is that one searches for coils of powerful emotional/physical/spiritual energy to fuel their own games while the latter does so in order to disentangle her/his own energy system in order to allow greater energy flow along the lines of trans-personal acceptance and surrender to Divinity, thus more closely approximating the pattern of the one Creatrix...bit by bit.

The good news is that it's all there within you, it'll remain there a long time waiting for you, and it ALL IS you...or the one known as "you." The Origin of All is Love, but Love has become complex, so to speak.

~P


I was going to quit there, but I feel I ought to temper the above by adding that I know it's, oh, so easy to feel that one is being overwhelmingly challenged by darkness and distortion in one form or another. These are opportunities to maybe flee or fight or give up, etc. or opportunities to search your own God-given being for the light or the love. Very often when facing heavy challenges you won't find your allies in the customary places. These are opportunities to scan beyond what's become your customary lateral plane and discern it, perhaps, in a higher or deeper place.

(10-19-2009, 07:16 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]But it's interesting to note that the STS skills of searching through darkened psyche-scapes can benefit the STO who's seeking deeper polarization. The difference is that one searches for coils of powerful emotional/physical/spiritual energy to fuel their own games while the latter does so in order to disentangle her/his own energy system in order to allow greater energy flow along the lines of trans-personal acceptance and surrender to Divinity, thus more closely approximating the pattern of the one Creatrix...bit by bit.

That makes a lot of sense and sounds much like working with the archetypical mind, which Ra says is available for both positive and negative. In particular, it makes me think of the Experience of the Spirit, about which Ra says "[e]ven the most unhappy of experiences, shall we say, which seem to occur in the Catalyst of the adept, seen from the viewpoint of the spirit, may, with the discrimination possible in shadow, be worked with until light equaling the light of brightest noon descends upon the adept and positive or service-to-others illumination has occurred. The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter, preferring the darkness."

---

(10-19-2009, 03:30 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]Recall also, that Jesus was just 4D+, so one could also say "there must be some extremely, extremely, extremely positive entities out there in the higher positive densities."

Although this is, I'm sure, quite true, it's worth remembering that in the higher densities work is done by social memory complexes rather than by individuals. Ra says "In the case of mass understanding of unity, each individual may contain an acceptable amount of distortion and yet the mass mind could move mountains."

After all, presumably some, perhaps many, of us on these forums are fifth- or sixth-density wanderers, thus supposedly "higher" than Jesus; yet I'm sure few, if any, of us would claim to be as positive as him. In some ways, arguably, fourth density may be the most purely "positive" density; once one begins to integrate wisdom and unity into one's understanding one's focus might of necessity become broader and less purely "positive".

(10-19-2009, 07:27 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]After all, presumably some, perhaps many, of us on these forums are fifth- or sixth-density wanderers, thus supposedly "higher" than Jesus; yet I'm sure few, if any, of us would claim to be as positive as him. In some ways, arguably, fourth density may be the most purely "positive" density; once one begins to integrate wisdom and unity into one's understanding one's focus might of necessity become broader and less purely "positive".

I never looked at the densities in that way...that 4d entities would be more caring and loving to others, while 5th/6th entities would have a more seemingly mental approach, or rather less emotional approach to serving. I like to think of myself as coming from 6th density, for 2 reasons.

1.) I desire SO strongly to be in a physical incarnation of perfect harmony with other selves or preferably in a non-physical realm of similar harmony.

2.) I'm more fascinated by the concept of being at peace emotionally and mentally having a huge impact on our world, even if it is unseen at first, especially coupled with the idea of infringing on someone's free will (meaning I try to be VERY cautious when I offer advice or help, making sure not to step into that infringement zone). It seems to me that by being at peace and feeling compassion towards others, you will affect those who at least somewhat match your vibrations and can therefore benefit from your state of being, while not forcing your vibes on those who don't (they would seemingly not want to be around you anyway, or just not be affected by you if they were extremely agitated/conflicted/etc.)

Well, those 2, and I guess one other reason...I'm WAY more intrigued by the concept of Oneness, than the concept of being in a super loving plane of existence.

Godspeed to us all...

(10-19-2009, 03:30 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]So to me it seems that from the point of view of an STO entity the STS are becoming STO at mid 6D, and from the perspective of the STS entity, the STO are becoming STS at mid 6D. In truth, both are becoming balanced and have transcended polarity. They have met, as it were, in the middle.


3D Sunset

This reminds me of the Ra passage where early 6D STS'ers who've opened out to the wider picture are said to have all the zeal of new converts and end up being more fervent in their work than those who were STO all along. Perhaps, after spending all that time hold up in a cave in 5D, when they came out to smell the air unbefouled by their own "business," it was like starting life anew?

I'm not so sure about STO's becoming more like (or compromising with?) the STS crowd. Perhaps it's more that, as your rank changes, so does the range of your responsibilities? As 7D approaches, in may simply be more appropriate to let others do the work you did, just as the 5D+'ers are said to not engage in battles with the 4D negative entities.

(10-19-2009, 07:27 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]In some ways, arguably, fourth density may be the most purely "positive" density; once one begins to integrate wisdom and unity into one's understanding one's focus might of necessity become broader and less purely "positive".

Or, put another way, perhaps the understanding of what "positive" means developes as we develope a vibration closer to that of the one Creatrix?


BTW, Comment on Jesus of Nazareth's positivity: Ra states (uh, someplace) that J of N had penetrated the veil to an usually great degree. This might account for why he was so keenly aware of his own dedication to STO 4D style.

~P

---

(10-19-2009, 09:54 PM)Turtle Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-19-2009, 07:27 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: [ -> ]After all, presumably some, perhaps many, of us on these forums are fifth- or sixth-density wanderers, thus supposedly "higher" than Jesus; yet I'm sure few, if any, of us would claim to be as positive as him. In some ways, arguably, fourth density may be the most purely "positive" density; once one begins to integrate wisdom and unity into one's understanding one's focus might of necessity become broader and less purely "positive".

I never looked at the densities in that way...that 4d entities would be more caring and loving to others, while 5th/6th entities would have a more seemingly mental approach, or rather less emotional approach to serving. I like to think of myself as coming from 6th density, for 2 reasons.

1.) I desire SO strongly to be in a physical incarnation of perfect harmony with other selves or preferably in a non-physical realm of similar harmony.

2.) I'm more fascinated by the concept of being at peace emotionally and mentally having a huge impact on our world, even if it is unseen at first, especially coupled with the idea of infringing on someone's free will (meaning I try to be VERY cautious when I offer advice or help, making sure not to step into that infringement zone). It seems to me that by being at peace and feeling compassion towards others, you will affect those who at least somewhat match your vibrations and can therefore benefit from your state of being, while not forcing your vibes on those who don't (they would seemingly not want to be around you anyway, or just not be affected by you if they were extremely agitated/conflicted/etc.)

Well, those 2, and I guess one other reason...I'm WAY more intrigued by the concept of Oneness, than the concept of being in a super loving plane of existence.

Godspeed to us all...

Hi there.

Just a thought: At which station you got on this train is one question. What your goals were is another. Perhaps, like myself, your self found itself more tilted towards wisdom than love and hopped on board in order to learn more about the primacy of love? [It's a stinkin' hard lesson, let me tell ya!!] {{Just kidding, of course.}}

~P