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For those of us who still occasionally watch TV and can afford cable (enjoying it while I'm still at my parents' house), we have all seen paranormal shows like Ghost Adventures, Ghost Hunters, Dead Files to name a few. I LOVE watching scary TV shows and being scared in that sense. I always did and I'm sure most of us watched Unsolved Mysteries and Sightings back in the 90s. By the way, you can still watch a lot of old Sightings episodes on the ParanormalXFiles channel on YouTube.

Because of these newer shows, there's been a surplus of "ghost hunters". My brother in law happens to be one of them and does EVPs. However, I do think that ghost hunting poses a significant danger.

And this is all IMO, but when you ghost hunt, it's like going to a party that you weren't invited to. The ghost is there for an obvious reason....its OWN reason to be more precise and you're crashing their party. Some ghost hunters may justify their actions by "helping" the ghost, but did the ghost ask for help? Thats infringing. Ghost hunting is more like a sport, trying just to get evidence on tape.

Helping people deal with a haunting is something completely different. Help should be provided when a ghost/demon is harming a family and when the family asks for it. This should be done by a trained professional, like a priest or a very good psychic.

But remember that when you ghost hunt, you're on the ghosts' turf and believe it or not, ghosts and especially demons can mess with you and hurt you if they don't want you there. They can even attach themselves to you via your aura to follow you around, so you'd better be well protected if you do this sort of activity. It's far from being a "harmless hobby".

Brown Lady of Raynham Hall - 1936
[Image: pic1.jpg]
There seems to be a wide range of things that we call ghosts.

Meerie

I know a naturopath here who is also a professional ghost buster. He has interesting stories to tell, one of them goes like this:
A house (not too far from where I live :-P) was haunted, and the tenants were scared to go down the staircase at night because there was all kinds of phenomena going on.
When he came there he was able to make contact with the ghost. Turns out it was some (american) soldier from WWII, whose plane had been shot down and who was still erring around, in search for his missing scarf (I know it sounds kinda silly :-P) He asked what the scarf looked like and the ghost described it to him. Then my friend asked one of the ladies living in the house, if they could knit a scarf that looked like that... they put it in the staircase.
Next day the scarf was gone, and the ghost too. No more apparitions from that moment on.
Usually what we call ghosts are astral manifestations of parts of the deceased person that for whatever reason could not fully cross over to the other side, due to either trauma or being unable to fully let go and leave this earthly existence.
There is a good show on TV called "ghost whisperer" based on a true story of a woman who is able to see ghosts and help them deal with their unfinished business and finally walk to the light.

kdsii

I'm not so sure that helping a ghost to 'cross over' could ever be considered free-will infringement.
After all, in most cases, this is an entity stuck/bound to a place/event, indefinitely repeating the event of trauma that cannot be released.
If I was put in a situation where I could help a stuck soul, I would do it whether it incurred negative karma or not...
What torture and loneliness that must be.

But I agree, the TV shows take a high-suspense, self-parody approach to this.
Of -course- disincarnate entities can pick up on this insincerity.
If I were an earthbound spirit unwilling to cross over, a twitchy ghost-hunting crew banking on recording evidence would be the last people I'd try and relay a message to.

Shamelessly jacking this thread,
WHY do entities with negative auras often manifest as dog/hound demons? FREAKY STUFF
Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?

Then who's the "ghost" ?

Richard

kdsii

Well, not all witnessed events are the same.
Unseen forces that repeat an event, at a certain time of day, endlessly.
Or, ones that hang around a place until the house is knocked down.
Beings that are apparently there because of some trauma that occurred to them or someone they love.
That's what I'm referring to.
Murder, suicide and accident victims that won't cross over.

(07-31-2012, 09:55 AM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?

Then who's the "ghost" ?

Richard

In my opinion…one of the best Ghost Hunter episodes ever. They were in the country home of a, expat European noble. Except this country home was in the western United States. The background story goes that the nobleman married an american girl and they would travel between an east coast residence and the western residence regularly. Apparently the woman always took her bed with here. Big, canopied, heavily carved maple or oak job. So was very attached to the bed and eventually died in it…so the story goes. And people were saying she was haunting the room the bed was in.

Enter the Ghost Hunters….they start an evp session and begin to hear a woman’s voice. They start trying to talk to her…and are asking…”Where are you? Are you here with us? Please show yourself”….standard ghost hunter questions.

Then…they get an unexpected response. The woman starts questioning them…saying…’Who are you? Where are you? I’m in my bedroom…I can’t see you?

So, then the question begs……Who are the ghosts then? The woman…or us?

Richard
Do suicides get stuck on Earth in ghost form?
(07-31-2012, 09:47 AM)kdsii Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not so sure that helping a ghost to 'cross over' could ever be considered free-will infringement.
After all, in most cases, this is an entity stuck/bound to a place/event, indefinitely repeating the event of trauma that cannot be released.
If I was put in a situation where I could help a stuck soul, I would do it whether it incurred negative karma or not...
What torture and loneliness that must be.
The point I was getting at was that I just think its wrong to go out and "hunt" ghosts, such as just trying to get it on tape or audio, without any regard for the spirit's well-being.

Do we have a responsibility to helping lost souls? I would say yes, and they are still considered our fellow man. If a spirit directly asked me for assistance, I'm there because it asked and I am not infringing. But sometimes it falls into a category such as trying to help a drug addict where the drug addict just doesn't want to get help. I've heard that drug addicted ghosts (and this includes alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis) will literally hover around people while they are intoxicated to feel those physical sensations, and even try to enter their body for maximum results. So we shouldn't be surprised at all to see earthbound-spirits hanging out in bars/clubs/drug houses. Hell, if you've ever seen a crack house, you know how close to Hell that is.

I also believe that synchronicity affects beings in time/space as well as space/time. So if a spirit in need does desire help, that spirit will be provided aid in due "time", such as a person just unintentionally stumbling by a spirit and senses that it needs assistance.

Shin'Ar

Until proven otherwise, its all speculation.

So, in my speculating on the possibilities, applying what I speculate in other regards which become tied into this, I see a great deal of contradiction, as I always do when we tend to take speculation to extremes.

Instead of falling into the same trap as others and trying to piece together all of the myths and manufactured imaginings, why don't we instead ask ourselves a few critical questions in this regard?

For instance, who do we suppose first coined the thought of such a thing as a ghost? What is its origin? Where did it begin and at what point did it begin to evolve into the many various myths that surround it this day? What exactly is this thought process that we call a ghost?

It seems to be always associated in some way with dead identities that once walked this earth alive. Meaning that they are somehow stuck in some sort of transitional phase, either deliberate or not. But what do we, as students of the metaphysical, speculate regarding the passing of life in death? Does our speculation and the information that we have built on support consideration of such speculation as ghosts?

If we suppose that life is a continuously incarnating force, then we do suppose that there will be a transition between living and living again. But why would we consider that somehow our 'ghost' identity would haunt this living reality during that phase? And why do we suppose that it would take the form of our dead most recent temporary form? Why take any form at all if it is no longer flesh and blood?

It is when we begin to ask logical questions, avoiding the hype and curiosity which only creates delusional confusion and contradiction, that we begin to really put the pieces into place that will denounce the myth and start to create common sense.

Now, are people really experiencing something that is not quite physical that appears to be the ghostly apparition of a human form?

I am sure they are experiencing something. I am also sure that many times that what they have heard in tales and myth is superimposed over that experience they are having which leads to their willing construction of an event that is subconsciously manipulated to meet the aspects of the myth, while at the same time meeting their actual experience.

I am sure there are times when someone will actually have such a vivid experience that there will be no room for subconscious infiltration of memorized myth.

In attempts to relay the experience the latter will always be cast off as ludicrous because it will not meet with the many myths that are common enough to gain the support of the common listeners.

Is this not always the way with Mystery?

That which is socially and traditionally acceptable to the masses will be more readily accepted. thus we have the common myth of the ghosts of our predecessors floating around in the shadows haunting our reality. The result of our imaginings over thousands of years of what happens to us when we die. And even the result of wiser thought processes considering the reincarnate aspects of life and death and what one's life force might experience in that transition.

It is my speculation that it is foolish to follow myth, for the sake of myth, without any attempt at rationale at all. And when rationale is applied to the speculation, the ideas about ghosts of the dead remaining in some transition between life and new life and continuing to use the form of its most recent human identity just does not make any sense.

In the transition form one identity of thousands, to a new identity that may or may not even become human in form, why would the life force moving through that process of being choose to retain that last form and identity?

If it was some sort of a deliberate option of that life force, and it deliberately appears in this form for a specific purpose of revealing some information to someone it has left behind, then it appears that in thousands of years this 'between worlds' attempt has been a vast waste of time and effort which one would assume would have been abandoned long ago due to the lack of its success.


I find no reason to consider the possibility of ghosts caught in transition between life and death any more than I have reason to consider the possibility of an old man living in a place called heaven. I have sorted out the myths from the logic and the intuition and chosen to ignore what does not deserve consideration.

Are there aspects of our existence in which some form of energy or life force in transition between incarnations and in between material and physical interact with both realms?

It is my understanding that there is not. based upon the many ancient teachings that suggest to us that in death the life force is no longer in synch with the physical and becomes synchronized with the metaphysical. And in the state of human reincarnation this force is relayed to a place of flame where we take our true eternal forms as light beings. This is probably the true origins of the perversions of hell.

Other than unproven claims of ghost encounters, there is no reason for me to consider otherwise.

True, that we cannot prove the existence of our reality as light beings either, but at least those teachings are brought to us from the ancients, and not from campfire tales testing the limits of our fears of death.

The spirits in need of help would not be those who have moved on, it would be those who are taking present temporary forms that cannot figure out the reasons for their being here.

The ever evolving and incarnating life force of The One and The All leaves behind its process one certain legacy that cannot be denied; memory.

Is it more credible given what we know of fields of consciousness, stored information and experience within those fields, and memory of past events, that an apparition being observed in this reality might just be nothing more than the after image of memory continuing to manifest as it dissipates, just like the image on the blackness of the TV screen for a short time after it is shut off. Or like the after image that is burned into the blackness behind your eyelids for a brief period after you close your eyes.

As students of the Law of One we speculate that thought becomes material. Well does this work with memory as well? Is memory not past thought process?

When you take that after image of transitioning memory, and embellish it with our own imaginings around our traditions and myths, what you end up with is a 'ghost'.








I think you are being far too literal, Shin Ar'. "Ghost" is merely the acccepted descriptor for what is apparently some sort of energy field. That has been measured by various instruments in the last few years. The true nature of the energy field is still up in the air.

But, being human...we still try to attach the mythos of "ghosts" to that energy. I guess it makes for better TV.

Perhaps rather than ghosts, we should call them echoes.

Richard
(08-01-2012, 11:44 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Is it more credible given what we know of fields of consciousness, stored information and experience within those fields, and memory of past events, that an apparition being observed in this reality might just be nothing more than the after image of memory continuing to manifest as it dissipates, just like the image on the blackness of the TV screen for a short time after it is shut off. Or like the after image that is burned into the blackness behind your eyelids for a brief period after you close your eyes.

As students of the Law of One we speculate that thought becomes material. Well does this work with memory as well? Is memory not past thought process?

When you take that after image of transitioning memory, and embellish it with our own imaginings around our traditions and myths, what you end up with is a 'ghost'.

Well articulated thoughts and I agree as close to "completely" as possible in the uncertainty of 3D.

(08-01-2012, 12:40 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps rather than ghosts, we should call them echoes.

Richard

Also well said, Richard

Shin'Ar

(08-01-2012, 12:40 PM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]I think you are being far too literal, Shin Ar'. "Ghost" is merely the acccepted descriptor for what is apparently some sort of energy field. That has been measured by various instruments in the last few years. The true nature of the energy field is still up in the air.

But, being human...we still try to attach the mythos of "ghosts" to that energy. I guess it makes for better TV.

Perhaps rather than ghosts, we should call them echoes.

Richard


I think that is pretty much what I have said here Richard.
Funny I was just reading this http://arbid.co.uk/views/wp-content/uplo...fSouls.pdf

Basically a guy who hypnotizes people and contacts there sub-conscious and speaks to some sort of extension of the entities soul.

And I came across this.

Quote:Dr. N: Thece, I want you to reflect on the source as we talk about other aspects of
soul life and the spirit world. Later, I will ask you more about this oneness. Now,
let's go back to the energy manifestations of souls. Why do spirits display two black
glowing cavities for eyes when not showing their human forms? It seems so spooky
to me.
S: (laughs and is more relaxed) That's how Earth's legends of ghosts came aboutfrom these memories. Our energy mass is not uniform. The eyes you speak of
represent a more concentrated intensity of thought.
Dr. N: Well, if the myths about ghosts are not so fanciful after all, then these black
eye sockets must be useful extensions of their energy.
S: Rather than eyes ... they are windows to old bodies ... and all the physical
extensions of former selves. This blackness is a ... concentration of our presence. We
communicate by absorbing the energy presence of each other.
Dr. N: When you return to the spirit world, do you have energy contact with other
souls who may look like ghosts?
S: Yes, and appearance is a matter of individual preference. Of course there is
always a multitude of thought waves around me-mingling with my returning
energy, but I avoid too much contact.
(07-31-2012, 09:55 AM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?
I think it's the case that the time/space locus for the deceased is of a nature that is different than our collectively-experienced time/space environment. When one is freed from the body, like a magnet, they naturally gravitate toward some environment which most closely compliments and so offers balancing opportunities to the current condition of the mind/spirit. Ra calls it a place of 'healing'. So the entity is indeed 'stuck' if they don't realize that they are no longer in an environment suitable for evolving.

There are a variety of ways for a deceased individual to contact the living if they so choose. Many will do so, say with family and friends, if only to say 'I'm OK'.

Shin'Ar

(08-01-2012, 10:25 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-31-2012, 09:55 AM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?
I think it's the case that the time/space locus for the deceased is of a nature that is different than our collectively-experienced time/space environment. When one is freed from the body, like a magnet, they naturally gravitate toward some environment which most closely compliments and so offers balancing opportunities to the current condition of the mind/spirit. Ra calls it a place of 'healing'. So the entity is indeed 'stuck' if they don't realize that they are no longer in an environment suitable for evolving.

There are a variety of ways for a deceased individual to contact the living if they so choose. Many will do so, say with family and friends, if only to say 'I'm OK'.

Contact from beyond the grave is purely hypothetical speculation Zen.

But beyond that as i would not choose to debate that with you, I am curious why you state that in the transition stage between incarnations a consciousness is no longer evolving?

You say that such is a deceased individual, but what exactly do you perceive a deceased individual to be? Are you thinking of it as the last identity that it had lived? Or are you thinking of it as a compilation of thousands of past identities?

If the latter, than that list of family members it might want to contact would be an extremely long list.
I agree that evolution likely does not occur in between incarnations because in an inter-incarnational state are you not cut off from the sequential progression of time which allows for catalyst to be experienced?

Shin'Ar

(08-02-2012, 11:14 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that evolution likely does not occur in between incarnations because in an inter-incarnational state are you not cut off from the sequential progression of time which allows for catalyst to be experienced?

I do not think so Spaced.

It is my understanding that we are all light beings, vibrations, regardless of what form we take.

In the transition between human incarnations we simply return to the vibration of our field of consciousness which is our true reality. In that state we are subject to the evolved status of our field and, as Zen pointed out, the natural attractions and familiarities/compatibilities of that particular field.

We are always a flame, but depending on our evolved status that flame can choose reincarnation, be subjected to reincarnation, or even exist in higher forms that do not require physical incarnation.

if one's field has evolved to the degree that their flame can exist as flame beyond the transition between matter and spirit, than that light being process cannot be said to be cut off from the process of evolving, because it is always in a state of evolving regardless of its degree or age.

The One is in constant evolution/change/growth/ and so also is every aspect of it.
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2012, 10:25 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-31-2012, 09:55 AM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?
I think it's the case that the time/space locus for the deceased is of a nature that is different than our collectively-experienced time/space environment. When one is freed from the body, like a magnet, they naturally gravitate toward some environment which most closely compliments and so offers balancing opportunities to the current condition of the mind/spirit. Ra calls it a place of 'healing'. So the entity is indeed 'stuck' if they don't realize that they are no longer in an environment suitable for evolving.

There are a variety of ways for a deceased individual to contact the living if they so choose. Many will do so, say with family and friends, if only to say 'I'm OK'.

Contact from beyond the grave is purely hypothetical speculation Zen.
It's certainly anecdotal, but only hypothetical if you want to treat it in that manner.

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But beyond that as i would not choose to debate that with you, I am curious why you state that in the transition stage between incarnations a consciousness is no longer evolving?
Due to the lack of a body to process catalyst.

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]You say that such is a deceased individual, but what exactly do you perceive a deceased individual to be? Are you thinking of it as the last identity that it had lived? Or are you thinking of it as a compilation of thousands of past identities?
The individual could have consciousness of both.

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]If the latter, than that list of family members it might want to contact would be an extremely long list.
Not really. There is a sphere of relevance related to the last lifetime which also was a type of learning mission. After all, there is the review each time. A time/space-viewpointed person of sufficient polarity, should easily determine if such contact would have an overall positive purpose.



Shin'Ar

(08-02-2012, 08:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2012, 10:25 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-31-2012, 09:55 AM)Richard Wrote: [ -> ]Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?
I think it's the case that the time/space locus for the deceased is of a nature that is different than our collectively-experienced time/space environment. When one is freed from the body, like a magnet, they naturally gravitate toward some environment which most closely compliments and so offers balancing opportunities to the current condition of the mind/spirit. Ra calls it a place of 'healing'. So the entity is indeed 'stuck' if they don't realize that they are no longer in an environment suitable for evolving.

There are a variety of ways for a deceased individual to contact the living if they so choose. Many will do so, say with family and friends, if only to say 'I'm OK'.

Contact from beyond the grave is purely hypothetical speculation Zen.
It's certainly anecdotal, but only hypothetical if you want to treat it in that manner.

IS THAT NOT THE DEFINITION OF HYPOTHESIZING?

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But beyond that as i would not choose to debate that with you, I am curious why you state that in the transition stage between incarnations a consciousness is no longer evolving?
Due to the lack of a body to process catalyst.

ARE YOU THINKING THAT OUR FIELD OF CONSCIOUSNESS, OUR LIGHT BEING IS NOT FUNCTIONAL WITHOUT A PHYSICAL MATERIAL FORM? I THINK I JUST ADDRESSED THAT HYPOTHESIS IN MY PREVIOUS POST ABOVE.

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]You say that such is a deceased individual, but what exactly do you perceive a deceased individual to be? Are you thinking of it as the last identity that it had lived? Or are you thinking of it as a compilation of thousands of past identities?
The individual could have consciousness of both.

OF COURSE THERE IS CONSCIOUSNESS OF BOTH. THAT IS WHAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS.

(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]If the latter, than that list of family members it might want to contact would be an extremely long list.
Not really. There is a sphere of relevance related to the last lifetime which also was a type of learning mission. After all, there is the review each time. A time/space-viewpointed person of sufficient polarity, should easily determine if such contact would have an overall positive purpose.

BUT YOU ARE TYING CONSCIOUSNESS TO ITS MOST RECENT FORM/IDENTITY AND SUGGESTING THAT IT ONLY RELATES TO AND/OR EVOLVES ACCORDING TO ITS MOST RECENT ENCOUNTERS. AS THOUGH ITS ENTIRE PAST HISTORY AND ACCUMULATION OF INFORMATION AND MEMORY HAS NO PART IN ITS EVOLUTION. I REALIZE THAT YOUR LEARNING WOULD NOT ALLOW YOU TO THINK IN SUCH WAYS SO I CAN ONLY ASSUME THAT YOU MEAN TO SUGGEST THAT THIS EVOLVING ASPECT OF THE CONSCIOUSNESS TAKES INTO CONSIDERATION THIS SPACE/TIME SIMULTANEITY THAT MOST PEOPLE HERE SPEAK OF.



I am sorry for the caps Zen, and the disordered method of responding to your post, but I still have not figured out how to respond to quotes within quotes.

(08-04-2012, 06:59 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 08:44 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-01-2012, 10:25 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Richard' pid='93274' dateline='1343742909']
Its alway assumed that the entity is "stuck" somewhere. But what if the entity is just going about its business where ever and our voices / actions are the bleed through?
I think it's the case that the time/space locus for the deceased is of a nature that is different than our collectively-experienced time/space environment. When one is freed from the body, like a magnet, they naturally gravitate toward some environment which most closely compliments and so offers balancing opportunities to the current condition of the mind/spirit. Ra calls it a place of 'healing'. So the entity is indeed 'stuck' if they don't realize that they are no longer in an environment suitable for evolving.

There are a variety of ways for a deceased individual to contact the living if they so choose. Many will do so, say with family and friends, if only to say 'I'm OK'.

Contact from beyond the grave is purely hypothetical speculation Zen.
It's certainly anecdotal, but only hypothetical if you want to treat it in that manner.

IS THAT NOT THE DEFINITION OF HYPOTHESIZING?

Hypothesizing would be an attempt to explain something (as opposed to merely relating an experience).

(08-04-2012, 06:59 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But beyond that as i would not choose to debate that with you, I am curious why you state that in the transition stage between incarnations a consciousness is no longer evolving?
Due to the lack of a body to process catalyst.

ARE YOU THINKING THAT OUR FIELD OF CONSCIOUSNESS, OUR LIGHT BEING IS NOT FUNCTIONAL WITHOUT A PHYSICAL MATERIAL FORM? I THINK I JUST
ADDRESSED THAT HYPOTHESIS IN MY PREVIOUS POST ABOVE.

"71.7 Questioner: Is the process in positive time/space identical with the process in negative time/space for this healing?

Ra: I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.

The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
"

"105.14 Questioner: Then the yellow-ray body, from the very beginning, was designed as what Ra has called an athanor for the mind, a device to accelerate the evolution of the mind. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace
."

(08-04-2012, 06:59 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]You say that such is a deceased individual, but what exactly do you perceive a deceased individual to be? Are you thinking of it as the last identity that it had lived? Or are you thinking of it as a compilation of thousands of past identities?
The individual could have consciousness of both.

OF COURSE THERE IS CONSCIOUSNESS OF BOTH. THAT IS WHAT CONSCIOUSNESS IS.
Consciousness as in a quality of awareness, not necessarily an identity which is of a certain distortion (based on some imbalance).

(08-04-2012, 06:59 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]
(08-02-2012, 10:34 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]If the latter, than that list of family members it might want to contact would be an extremely long list.
Not really. There is a sphere of relevance related to the last lifetime which also was a type of learning mission. After all, there is the review each time. A time/space-viewpointed person of sufficient polarity, should easily determine if such contact would have an overall positive purpose.

BUT YOU ARE TYING CONSCIOUSNESS TO ITS MOST RECENT FORM/IDENTITY AND SUGGESTING THAT IT ONLY RELATES TO AND/OR EVOLVES ACCORDING TO ITS MOST RECENT ENCOUNTERS.
I'm not suggesting that it only relates to most recent encounters, I am suggesting that the most recent encounters tend to have a large influence on what is relevant to the recently deceased.

(08-04-2012, 06:59 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]I am sorry for the caps Zen, and the disordered method of responding to your post, but I still have not figured out how to respond to quotes within quotes.
You can put quote and /quote in brackets around what you want to quote.

Shin'Ar

Zen Master,

What do YOU suppose regarding the state between incarnations and the need for a physical body in order to evolve?

I know what Ra says. Do you accept that to the degree where you believe that is possibly truth? What does your intuition speak to you regarding this?

This quote of Ra : "Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace." UNQUOTE ... I would be in disagreement with. But the quote speaks of yellow ray physical body, and that may not speak to the same thing as the next actual physical incarnation, so because of the uncertainty of interpretation I cannot argue one way or the other.

But it is my understanding, intuitively, that there is much that is done as our light body/astral form, and I just cannot wrap my head around this whole time/space versus space/time method of comprehending creation. It does not synch with my field of consciousness and I am aware of information, and have memory, that contradicts such teaching.

It seems that you accept the words of Ra as indisputable and without possibility of error. In that context I cannot argue anything that you would quote to support your theories.

But I would ask you what you think yourself, beyond what Ra has to say, with regard to your life force being a force beyond the limits of the physical human incarnations?

Do you not see that this force that sustains and creates you, and The All, should be beyond the limits of being restricted to physicality in order to experience and interact with creation?







(08-01-2012, 11:44 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]For instance, who do we suppose first coined the thought of such a thing as a ghost? What is its origin? Where did it begin and at what point did it begin to evolve into the many various myths that surround it this day? What exactly is this thought process that we call a ghost?

Very good question, Shin'Ar.

Perhaps some etymology may be of aid:

The modern sense of "disembodied spirit of a dead person" is attested from late 14c. Its origins can be traced back to O.E. gast: "soul, spirit, life, breath; good or bad spirit; angel, demon." Then there's Ger. Geist, also "spirit, ghost," from PIE root *gheis-, "to be excited, amazed, frightened" (from O.E. gæstan, "to frighten"). The surviving O.E. senses, however, are in Christian writing, where it is used to render L. spiritus, a sense preserved in Holy Ghost.

(Funny how people never imagine the Holy Ghost as being a dead dude like all other regular "ghosts.")

The gh- spelling appeared early 15c. in Caxton, influenced by Flemish and M.Du. gheest, but was rare in English before mid-16c. Sense of "slight suggestion" (in ghost image, ghost of a chance, etc.) is first recorded 1610s; that in ghost writing is from 1884, but that term is not found until 1919. Ghost town is from 1908. To give up the ghost (to "die") was in Old English. Ghost in the machine was Gilbert Ryle's term (1949) for "the mind viewed as separate from the body."

Quote:If we suppose that life is a continuously incarnating force, then we do suppose that there will be a transition between living and living again.

If you may consider a slight correction, Shin'Ar, I would kindly suggest there is no such thing as "living and living again." There is only one living, and that living is life itself, and life is forever alive.

Contrary to popular misunderstanding, it is erroneous to see death as the opposite of life. Life has no opposite, it simply has phases—namely, birth and death. Hence, the opposite of birth is death. Life flows unimpeded through the death/birth and birth/death processes of an incarnation. Irregardless of whether you are "dead" or "born," you are still alive. Life is pure energy, life is consciousness itself. You are always ALIVE (albeit to various degrees of livingness).

Quote:But why would we consider that somehow our 'ghost' identity would haunt this living reality during that phase?

Firstly, let us say that the "ghost realm," if you will, is as busy and alive as this "living reality," as you put it. Now, to offer my thoughts on your question: the ghost identity haunts this reality because of an attachment and/or trauma pertaining to its particular incarnative experience which was not resolved whilst "in the flesh," as you would say.

Quote:And why do we suppose that it would take the form of our dead most recent temporary form?

I believe I answered this in the previous question.

Quote:Why take any form at all if it is no longer flesh and blood?

There is a slight, but crucial, misconception here. Form is light and light is form. For as long as you are using light as clothing, medium, vehicle of experience, you will have some form. And the time/space form will typically be concordant with the entity's space/time form, as well as also be subject to the entity's level or degree of awareness, of course (i.e. how self-conscious an entity is regarding itself, its reality, and its identity as Creator). Therefore, irregardless of form, whether of "flesh and blood" as you say, or more "ghostly" or "ethereal," the form is made of LIGHT. Light is the manifestation, light is your clothing and your vehicle, whether in the so-called physical or metaphysical.

Only the formless is truly formless.

Quote:It is when we begin to ask logical questions, avoiding the hype and curiosity which only creates delusional confusion and contradiction, that we begin to really put the pieces into place that will denounce the myth and start to create common sense.

Couldn't agree more.

Quote:If it was some sort of a deliberate option of that life force, and it deliberately appears in this form for a specific purpose of revealing some information to someone it has left behind, then it appears that in thousands of years this 'between worlds' attempt has been a vast waste of time and effort which one would assume would have been abandoned long ago due to the lack of its success.

That is why I generally pay no more attention to "dead dudes" than incarnated people. There isn't that big of a difference between the awareness of a 3rd density entity in space/time and a 3rd density entity in time/space.

I am only familiar with just one case of valuable knowledge relayed by a 3D inner plane's "dead dude." The entity (ghost) here is being channeled and actually provides insightful information about the "realm of the dead."

If you're interested, I am linking the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NFc8pUwpco

Quote:based upon the many ancient teachings that suggest to us that in death the life force is no longer in synch with the physical and becomes synchronized with the metaphysical.

That's the "problem." You see, there never really is any real separation between physical and metaphysical. The physical is intrinsically connected to the metaphysical, and vice versa—they mutually affect each other.

Quote:True, that we cannot prove the existence of our reality as light beings either,

Dear Shin'Ar, you are already a light being, as are all other beings. Not in some distant future or in some discarnate form, but now, right now, the very body you are clothing yourself in is made of light. Agreed, there are various degrees of solidity, density or plasticity to this one light, but all material, all form, all manifestation, is LIGHT.

Quote:but at least those teachings are brought to us from the ancients, and not from campfire tales testing the limits of our fears of death.

And that is why I never believed in campfire stories! It was during one of my most transcendental experiences years ago, in which I had an amazing epiphany, that I realized EVERYTHING (my body, reality and everything I saw) was LIGHT. That you or I are "light beings" wasn't passed to me by some ancient master from some ancient time with some secret ancient knowledge... I didn't read it in a book, nobody taught it to me.... nay, I realized it myself via an epiphany in my present incarnation during the 21st century.

Quote:As students of the Law of One we speculate that thought becomes material. Well does this work with memory as well? Is memory not past thought process?

All past, present and future events in their various possibility/probability/opportunity vortices already exist in memory. Memory is a bank of living possibilities, both past and future. It is only the re-membering process what people refer to as "memory."



Shin'Ar, out of sheer curiosity, have you ever seen a "ghost" yourself? If you had, then perhaps your present opinion/judgment regarding "ghosts" would be slightly different.













(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]What do YOU suppose regarding the state between incarnations and the need for a physical body in order to evolve?

I know what Ra says. Do you accept that to the degree where you believe that is possibly truth? What does your intuition speak to you regarding this?
shinar, yes I believe we need a body in order to evolve. Otherwise the mind would not have a mirror for itself. space/time locality is always going to be an instance of some aspect of one's totality. The properties of that instance are selected based on what most needs to be reflected back for conscious consideration in order to balance.

(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]This quote of Ra : "Ra: I am Ra. It is perhaps more accurate to note that the yellow-ray, physical vehicle is a necessity without which the mind/body/spirit complex cannot pursue evolution at any pace." UNQUOTE ... I would be in disagreement with. But the quote speaks of yellow ray physical body, and that may not speak to the same thing as the next actual physical incarnation, so because of the uncertainty of interpretation I cannot argue one way or the other.
So what are you saying then?

(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But it is my understanding, intuitively, that there is much that is done as our light body/astral form, and I just cannot wrap my head around this whole time/space versus space/time method of comprehending creation. It does not synch with my field of consciousness and I am aware of information, and have memory, that contradicts such teaching.
It does synch with my field of consciousness, and I am aware of information, and have memory that does not contradict such teaching.

(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]It seems that you accept the words of Ra as indisputable and without possibility of error. In that context I cannot argue anything that you would quote to support your theories.
Such projections have been typical for you on these forums, most likely as an attempt to create a strawman. Having to correct your faulty premise and then trying to find out your real question is a bit tedious.

(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]But I would ask you what you think yourself, beyond what Ra has to say, with regard to your life force being a force beyond the limits of the physical human incarnations?
The limitations that we enjoy have a purpose in drawing attention to very real, unaddressed aspects of self - regardless of concepts of force.

(08-04-2012, 07:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]Do you not see that this force that sustains and creates you, and The All, should be beyond the limits of being restricted to physicality in order to experience and interact with creation?
Yes one can experience and interact with creation on a number of different levels. We are loaned such experience and its our choice to decide how it is put to use. What can be done? How is creation to be best served by our consciousness? Again, the restrictions have a purpose in perfecting what is 'you' so that 'you' may be more effective in that service.
(08-04-2012, 11:24 PM)Siren Wrote: [ -> ]If you're interested, I am linking the video here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NFc8pUwpco

This had really helped me with the concept of Soul. Very good info, and surprised it is not more well known.

Shin'Ar

Well said here Siren: "If you may consider a slight correction, Shin'Ar, I would kindly suggest there is no such thing as "living and living again." There is only one living, and that living is life itself, and life is forever alive.

Contrary to popular misunderstanding, it is erroneous to see death as the opposite of life. Life has no opposite, it simply has phases—namely, birth and death. Hence, the opposite of birth is death. Life flows unimpeded through the death/birth and birth/death processes of an incarnation. Irregardless of whether you are "dead" or "born," you are still alive. Life is pure energy, life is consciousness itself. You are always ALIVE (albeit to various degrees of livingness)." UNQUOTE

This is exactly the point I am trying to make to ZenMaster. the transition is not some limbo where life/evolution ceases to continue.

And although I agree with what you have stated in the above quote, I do not think that in the state between life and death that the consciousness is able to interact with this realm of the flesh. at least not in the ways that are described as hauntings and apparitions.

you also make a valid point for consideration with regard to light being and form, and I respectfully continue to disagree somewhat.

Siren said: "Form is light and light is form. For as long as you are using light as clothing, medium, vehicle of experience, you will have some form. And the time/space form will typically be concordant with the entity's space/time form, as well as also be subject to the entity's level or degree of awareness, of course (i.e. how self-conscious an entity is regarding itself, its reality, and its identity as Creator). Therefore, irregardless of form, whether of "flesh and blood" as you say, or more "ghostly" or "ethereal," the form is made of LIGHT. Light is the manifestation, light is your clothing and your vehicle, whether in the so-called physical or metaphysical." UNQUOTE

It is not that I suggest that your comprehension is inaccurate, because of course this is speculation on both parts, but I think that because of our individual comprehensions that we are describing very different things here.

For instance it seems that the light form that you are speaking of is this same word of god/Logos that you have spoken of in other threads. am I correct? if so, then what you are speaking of is the action/vibration of The Source that 'becomes' matter in the 'process of its being'.

It is not matter in its original form as an acting energy or thought process. It becomes matter as that vibration/thought/ consciousness acts into creation and becomes denser developing into matter at some point of that process.

For example, not all frequencies can alter particular matter. A vibration must reach a specific finely tuned pitch in order to become the action which will shatter that crystal glass. However all waves vibrate at some frequency, low or high, but it is not the action of their vibrating that makes them a form, but the aspect of their particular frequency, in other words, there is a 'process/action involved that is what becomes matter, beyond the vibration which is the energy behind the result.

This is the difference between what you define as light being and what I define as Light being.

You are using the word being to suggest an entity or matter, the result of the process having taken a form.

I am using the word being to suggest the 'process of being, not the result, but rather the process or action.

What I speak of is the Chi, the Ra, the difference between the Ba and the Ka. What I speak of when I use the term Light Being would be better said this way, the 'process' of light actually becoming or being at various frequencies.

Now I know we have discussed this many times and I know exactly how you equate the Light to the Word of God. But I take your thought process a little deeper toward the origin by suggesting that this Light, as 'you' would define it, is not result of the Source acting, it is the energy of the Source acting. And it is this distinction which causes me to always point to the Process of Being. And I know people are tired of hearing me state this over and over, but in my understanding this is crucial to comprehending the difference between matter and Spirit.

Matter is the result. It is the consequence of the Thought Process. It is the manifestation of the Thought. It is the Process of being, and this is what 'all that is manifest' really is. Including our human forms and temporary identities to which we think we are so attached because of the delusion which our physical organ, the brain, causes us to experience.

So the Being in the transition between life and death is no longer matter, but process. It is pure consciousness, which is pure light/thought/vibration in the process of becoming matter; but not matter. This is the Sacred Flame that each of us truly is. A Divine 'process of being' that will result in many forms as the process becomes matter.

In the stage between life and death that 'process of being/field of consciousness', as you have acknowledged, continues to be that which it has always been and will always be, a 'process'. It is a mistake to equate this flame or the light with the flame and light of matter, or of the material realm of assumed forms. It is not the flame of a camp fire. It is the energy force behind creation that is the process of the source, the One, being/existing.

It is the Nwyfre!

When our material forms expire, it is because their vibrations have been altered to the point where transformation takes place. In higher evolved states of being we are able to alter our vibration deliberately to take other forms by matching their frequencies. But in between those two actions/processes of altering vibrations there is always the Divine Vibration, which is the one force of creation, the action of the Source which creates, the 'process' of becoming some form or frequency. The same process that is always taking place as you also noted.

This is what I speak of when I speak of light being/becoming/altering/proceeding to become. And this is the state that we become in this transition between life and death of human reincarnation, as with any transition between frequencies.

As you state clearly, "Only the formless is truly formless."

And the 'Process' of Being is formless, that is why it called the process. It is becoming a form. It cannot be both the form and the process of becoming that form. When our forms expire, 'we' as our brain has identified us, no longer exist except as memory within the field of consciousness. This 'WE' reverts to the vibration of The Source acting/thinking and becomes process, rather than the result of the process acquiring form/becoming matter, which is the consequence of achieving specific frequencies.

I think the problem that many have in this regard is that they continue to associate this after life with their form, which is why they continue to think in terms of the transition working through its past experience and resolving issues and learning from them. But in reality, it is not the 'WE' that is doing this in the transition because that is now nothing but memory and expired brain function/dead rotten flesh decaying with the rest of that material. The Being which is doing the retrospection is The One Consciousness, the One Process of Being, and the retrospection may be about the experiences of that fragmented field of consciousness it realized as the 'WE' that experienced that vibration/form/matter, but that no longer exists to retrospect on anything at all. That delusional identity rots away with the brain, except for the memories of that experience which have been stored in the field of consciousness, which is connected to all fields, via The One Field of the source, and this process is the very process of being that evolves. It is The One Consciousness of The Source evolving through many of these processes and experiences, which in our own subjection within it, however temporary is both vital and very real during this physical time of experiencing it. This is why I always equate time with continuing and past process instead of simultaneity.


ZenMaster said- " yes I believe we need a body in order to evolve. Otherwise the mind would not have a mirror for itself. space/time locality is always going to be an instance of some aspect of one's totality. The properties of that instance are selected based on what most needs to be reflected back for conscious consideration in order to balance." UNQUOTE

Do you see that you are equating the mind/consciousness with the brain? And do you not see that if what you just suggested is factual, then it also implies that this 'mind', as you define it, would have to reflect back upon billions of experiences and past forms all the way back to its spawn? What you are doing is making my point that the one doing the reflecting is NOT 'you'. or 'I', but it is The One.

You do not have to become insulting Zen. I am not trying to become evasive due to inability to declare my thoughts, I am simply pointing out that because we are using very different definitions of identity and consciousness, and because that difference is the meat of my explanation and speculation, that we are obviously unable to discuss it rationally.

I think my discussion with Siren will serve to make my thoughts very clear.







(08-05-2012, 09:48 AM)ShinAr Wrote: [ -> ]For instance it seems that the light form that you are speaking of is this same word of god/Logos that you have spoken of in other threads. am I correct? if so, then what you are speaking of is the action/vibration of The Source that 'becomes' matter in the 'process of its being'.

That is incorrect. I appear to be continously misaprehended (which is somewhat funny since I think what I'm trying to convey is extremely simple). This god/Logos is the Thought/Focus/Love that CREATES, manifests, weaves the LIGHT as a medium or vehicle for experience. Light is the body of Creation. Light is the clothing of the Logos.

This is the Logos macrocosmically, and this are all other foci/fields of consciousness microcosmically. You are thought, energy, vibration, the active, creative, kinetic principle that manifests/reflects ALL light. Light is always the material and form you clothe yourself in and the vehicle you drive as you accrue experience, move, grow and evolve through the greater Creation.

Simple analogy:
Let us say a naked person is this Thought/Focus/Love (intelligent energy), savvy? Now when that person dresses up (i.e. clothes itself), THAT clothing is the LIGHT.

And yes, there are various frequencies; hence, various states of solidity or plasticity of MATTER, or LIGHT.

Yes, I am saying matter is light and light is matter.

Quote:Now I know we have discussed this many times and I know exactly how you equate the Light to the Word of God.

Yes, we have discussed this plenty of times... and yet, this misunderstanding/confusion persists. Thus it is my responsibility/honor/duty to attempt to diminish this confusion: I do not equate light to the Word of God, but as the manifestation/creation of the Logos (refer to the aforementioned analogy about the naked body).

I repeat myself: the Logos is the Thought/Focus/Love, intelligent energy, vibration, the Breath of Life.

Light is the MANIFESTATION, the creation, the form, the pattern, the shape, the vehicle, the medium of that Thought/Focus/Love, intelligent energy, vibration, Breath of Life.

Quote:Matter is the result. It is the consequence of the Thought Process. It is the manifestation of the Thought. It is the Process of being, and this is what 'all that is manifest' really is.

Agreed. And matter is LIGHT.

Quote:And this is the state that we become in this transition between life and death of human reincarnation

You keep referring to this "life and death" process, and I am compelled again to point out at something very simple: the transition is from birth to death and death to birth. Life simply is always flowing, before birth, through the incarnation, and after death.

When you're dead (not incarnated) you're as much alive as when you're born (incarnated).

Quote:So the Being in the transition between life and death is no longer matter, but process. It is pure consciousness, which is pure light/thought/vibration in the process of becoming matter; but not matter.

I grasp the misunderstanding. Whilst you equate light to thought and vibration and energy, I equate light to matter. Though and vibration and energy in are the creators of all light/matter.

It is very understandable that people would see this more subtle and refined form of matter (i.e. light) as being different than the more solid, coarse forms of matter. Hopefully a simple analogy would clear this misunderstanding: to say matter is different than light is the same as arguing that ice (frozen water) is not vapor (gaseous water).

I would agree 101%, however, that the "closest" this material is to the energy vibrations/frequency of the Logos the more and more ethereal it will appear to be (which is what is perceived as "light"), and the "further" it is from Logos the more solid, gross and coarse (i.e. "matter").

I will not push this any further, I will simply synthesize by saying LIGHT is the MAT(T)ERial, the vehicle, the medium, the clothing, the form of the Creator (Thought/Focus/Energy/Life/Love). And I shall conclude by saying this: LIGHT is temporal.

Shin'Ar

And so I hope that our attempt to solve the semantic dilemma has given cause for Zen to further consider the never ceasing process of being, even in the transition between birth and rebirth.
Talk about your thread derailing...

Shin'Ar

(08-05-2012, 02:10 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Talk about your thread derailing...


you are a difficult one to be amicable with Zen.

How is our discussing the transition between life and death not pertinent to that which some people would consider ghosts?

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