Bring4th

I have read a good bit of the Ra material, but I'm still not sure what exactly happens to us during Ascension. Is it like the Rapture where our physical bodies disappear? Where do we go? What happens to those who do not ascend? What exactly is 4th density? Is there still a physical reality?

(08-05-2012, 10:25 PM)ApponoAstos Wrote: [ -> ]I have read a good bit of the Ra material, but I'm still not sure what exactly happens to us during Ascension. [...]

This seems to be the million dollar question which polarizes this community. I would love to offer my opinion on this matter but I seem to insert my foot into my mouth every time I try to clarify this most salient concept with others here on this forums.

Please stick your foot in your mouth lol, any opinion is better than none. What is your personal opinion?

My current opinion is that we will be "sorted" into 3 groups on or before Dec 21st, which compromise 1 group going on to further 3D lessons, 1 small group graduating 90% Service to Self 4D and going to their own place, and finally 1 group graduating 4D 51%+Service to Others will stay here. I think we will have our vehicles upgraded to accommodate the full light of 4D and have the full ability to know anyOne's intentions, meaning no more lies, and no longer have to have variou other 3D oriented responsibilities/limitations. I also believe their may be 100-150 years transition period where we are in full 4D existence but still clinging to old 3D ideals.

In contrast, there are also a great deal of other forum members here who see a more gradualistic interpratation/prediction of things. Their opinion, in summary(if I am correct in perceiving), states that we will live out our lives being gradually/incrementally upgraded and upon their normal/natural death will have the opportunity to be harvested in to the highest density they feel comfortable in. And also that it will be 100-700(or 150) years of waning 3D experience.

My personal prediction based on a great many factors is 90%+ that there has to be a consensus reality switchover point at some point(most likely this year), while 10% of me still wonders if this interpretation/prediction of living out a normal life and being harvested upon death.

Like Parsons hinted, the answers to these questions are hotly debated on these forums. You'll find a ton of great reading material within this particular subforum as opinions and personalities clash in this debate.

Here's my personal distillation from the Ra material.

"Is it like the Rapture where our physical bodies disappear?"
Ra states multiple times that death is necessary for an individual to be harvested. The term is phrased by Don as "the process which we refer to as death," so I assume that if the process were different from the death we understand now, Ra would have corrected Don. Adding to this, Ra says we will go through the normal "post-death healing process" just like we do after any death before we are "harvested." Essentially, you will shed your current body through death (by whatever cause) and will be harvested "between incarnations."

Also according to Ra, the new 4th density body you inhabit will be the result of gradual reproductive evolution of body from 3rd density to 4th density, with harvested entities inhabiting the "transitional bodies" until the evolution is complete.

"Where do we go?"
4th density positive entities will stay with the Earth, 4th density negative entities will go to a 4th density negative planet, and the entities who did not graduate to 4th density will go to a 3rd density planet to continue 3rd density lessons.

"What exactly is 4th density?"
Ra said that 4th density cannot be described with words. They go on to do the best they can:

Quote:We can only explain what is not and approximate what is. Beyond fourth density our ability grows more limited still until we become without words.

That which fourth density is not: it is not of words, unless chosen. It is not of heavy chemical vehicles for body complex activities. It is not of disharmony within self. It is not of disharmony within peoples. It is not within limits of possibility to cause disharmony in any way.

Approximations of positive statements: it is a plane of a type of bipedal vehicle which is much denser and more full of life; it is a plane wherein one is aware of the thoughts of other-selves; it is a plane where one is aware of vibrations of other-selves; it is a plane of compassion and understanding of the sorrows of third density; it is a plane striving towards wisdom or light; it is a plane wherein individual differences are pronounced although automatically harmonized by group consensus.

I find it interesting in that Ra and Q'uo have explained the harvest clearly, yet I for one only came to see that clarity a month ago. Before that, my perceptions were distorted and I saw what I wanted to.

The harvest has already begun. When dissolution of the incarnate experience occurs, one walks the steps of light and is "sorted", as it were. Those unable to be harvested will continue with a third density cycle elsewhere. Those harvestable will continue habitation of Earth through the use of duel activated physical vehicle. Over the next hundred or so years, more and more will be born into duel activated physical vehicles, until there are no strictly third density only vehicles* on Earth. At this time 4th density space/time will go into activation, and third density space/time into potentiaton.

4th density time/space will go into activation on the winter solstice. I cannot say if this will go unnoticed by the many, but I suspect it so.

For all those unawares on Earth, Dec 22nd will be just another day. There is nothing to fear for any.

*The 3rd density mind/bipedal physical vehicle/spirit complex actually employs a 2nd density vehicle with genetic alterations.

(08-06-2012, 01:59 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]4th density time/space will go into activation on the winter solstice.

Don't you mean space/time (which is local)?

A harvest is the reaping of what is sown.

What is sown is fields of consciousness which are meant to evolve according to Divine Design.

Within the Divine Design the cosmos itself goes through cycles of change and adaptations.

What is harvested is evolved fields of consciousness.

However fields of consciousness do not all evolve at the same rate.

Therefore, during these adaptations and cycles of the cosmos, harvested fields of consciousness must be sorted according to their various stages of evolution.

Just as any crop must be sorted to send the ripe to market and the unripened to somewhere else more appropriate for it.

The difference between us and plant crops is that we have evolved to the point of being able to make choices with regard to how we evolve, and at what rate.

And those choices are the result of our evolved understanding of what we are within the Divine Design and what consequences we will experience as a result of our choices.

In reality we are not being harvested, but we are doing the harvesting by our own choices.

One much greater than I has been accounted as saying, "You shall reap what you sow!"

Ascension is not a matter of simply opening a portal and going through it.

It is a matter of making choices as we gain understanding in such a way that those choices will evolve into ripened fruit.

I've said all this before, but my understanding is that there are two types of polarization. One involves the sum-total balanced state of an entity, at the current nexus, which would be ascertained by violet ray. The other is the extent one has managed to polarize within this particular lifetime. In other words, one can be hugely distorted with blocked centers in this space/time lifetime (i.e. due to unfortunate limiting circumstances like physical/mental trauma or disease) and still be harvested to the next density if their unmanifest (non-local) aspects were already sufficiently balanced. These two conditions ('now' and 'all') are actually the same thing when viewed from violet ray, but the work may already have been done long ago.

From that viewpoint Zen, do you think a Wanderer could suffer a lifetime of strife and imbalance, fail to polarize sufficiently, yet still return to their home density after incarnation?

I don't think Ra ever said that Wanderers have to polarize in order to leave 3D (like Q'uo has so many times), but rather they would become karmically involved, forcing them to stay in 3D.

(08-06-2012, 10:11 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2012, 01:59 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]4th density time/space will go into activation on the winter solstice.

Don't you mean space/time (which is local)?

Both, but it will for the most part go unnoticed to those of third density.

On the Harvest.

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0609.aspx Hatonn Wrote:...it is within the self that the transition shall truly occur. That which occurs at harvest is within the self; that which occurs within the planet, although interesting, is a separate subject from the one which might well be considered far more interesting to the self. And that is that it is likely that this lifetime or at the very most, for those who die soon from the physical body, one more lifetime, shall be the last opportunity before graduation to refine the polarity of self to the point at which you the seeker might accept the quality of light which is the native light in fourth density...

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0101.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...One reason there is no need to fear these changes is that these changes are largely non-physical. As the questioner expressed the question, it was clear that the questioner was aware that they take place in the unseen realms, the inner planes. Therefore, while these changes are absolutely radical and revolutionary, they are not changes that will affect life as you know it on planet Earth. Consensus reality shall reflect only shadows of these changes...

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0101.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...It is very likely—and we are looking only at probability vortices, not actual predictions—that your people will not only be able to live out their current incarnations here but that there will be enough energy within third density to maintain third-density bodies and the energies of evolution, in terms of the spirit, for some of your time, perhaps as many as a hundred or a hundred and fifty of your years. It is difficult but not impossible to predict with any accuracy what shall occur with your people. However, the time of third density for doing third-density work is virtually over...

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0101.aspx Q'uo Wrote:...Eventually, your planet will no longer be able to sustain the evolutionary energy necessary to live a third-density life. Once this has occurred and there are no longer any third-density entities dwelling on the planet, fourth density will indeed become able not only to interpenetrate third density but to appear. At this point in its development, all of fourth density chooses not to appear. It chooses to remain as an unseen energy in order to allow the third-density entities to complete their patterns...

IMHO the Harvest is the awakening. If you become spiritually aware at this time, then I would say you are harvestable.

In regards to the harvest having already begun-

I agree that the harvest has already begun, meaning that for a while now, the ones that have "died-off" in this planet however they may have gone, have then underwent the review, then the steps of light, then the choice to enter 4-d or return to 3-d. If you fail to harvest, (and are not a wanderer) I doubt there will be much of a choice.

I'll add that reincarnation back into 3-d (which would most likely be that we return to this planet) will cease after Dec. 21st 2012. In other words, if you 'die' after the event which is the basis of the change occuring on Dec. 21st 2012, you are not going to be coming back here; however, if you are dismissed before the "event of change" (galactic alignment? dark rift? rejoining the solar system track?), you would come back to the terran-experience...under one condition:

you choose to come back after realizing you were unharvestable.

I say "you choose to come back" because there are probably other 3-d planets in the Universe you could attend to. Although, for a wanderer to come back...the point of wanderers coming here was to help us attain harvestability. I don't know if they'd be coming back to help the final incarnates...which in turn would include them also...thus the position now filled for a body on Earth where possibly a non-wanderer could have been given a truly "final" chance in achieving the harvest here. If there is no room, they will be somewhere else in the galaxy, or perhaps Universe, starting where they left off...or at the start of an entirely different cycle.

If you peered this post you might be wondering about the date December 21st 2012. I just put it up there as it is the suspected date for the change, (I've seen it here and there on these forums) I could be wrong though.

(08-06-2012, 05:18 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]From that viewpoint Zen, do you think a Wanderer could suffer a lifetime of strife and imbalance, fail to polarize sufficiently, yet still return to their home density after incarnation?

Yes. But on the other hand, if a positive wanderer had polarized sufficiently toward some relative balance that attracted a negative disposition, they might be harvested to some negative area.

We tend to think of polarization as some scalar concept with two directions. And that is true, but in 3D it involves only those aspects of self which are able, through prior programming, to be consciously acknowledged and worked with in this lifetime (Carla's 'personality shell'). Those aspects can run deep enough to offset any prior balancing toward one direction or the other. As Ra said, the further one has polarized, the easier it is to change polarities (because more of 'you' is involved in conscious action).

(08-06-2012, 05:18 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Ra ever said that Wanderers have to polarize in order to leave 3D (like Q'uo has so many times), but rather they would become karmically involved, forcing them to stay in 3D.

I don't think wanderers have to 're-polarize' to leave 3D either, would make no sense. On the other hand, many wanderers are also here to balance. Negative 4th and 5th dimensions offer potential balancing opportunities to the extent that wanderer has not yet accepted those aspects of self offered by those 'nexii'. 3D may offer the same opportunity if there is something still confusingly compelling about it.

(08-06-2012, 06:10 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO the Harvest is the awakening. If you become spiritually aware at this time, then I would say you are harvestable.

And I would say also one who can forgive all that has happened to them and all they have done. Good point there Patrick.

(08-06-2012, 06:10 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO the Harvest is the awakening. If you become spiritually aware at this time, then I would say you are harvestable.

No way. This is definitely not necessarily true. Becoming 'spiritually aware' is just barely opening the 'heart'. It is the beginning of the validation of subjective experience, the use of the intuition, the Green vMeme of Spiral Dynamics. But once that is touched, one may polarize faster (and ultimately sufficiently for harvest) because things are seen in a new light allowing for possibly more efficient use of catalyst. IMHO, the key to polarizing sufficiently in a lifetime is reaching a point of acceptance where a fear reaction is not based on the illusory reflection of some aspect of self. Such fear is also manifest as anger. There is also not the binding rejection of self stemming from hope (that we see in distortions such as zealotry).

(08-06-2012, 07:05 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2012, 06:10 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO the Harvest is the awakening. If you become spiritually aware at this time, then I would say you are harvestable.

No way. This is definitely not necessarily true. Becoming 'spiritually aware' is just barely opening the 'heart'. It is the beginning of the validation of subjective experience, the use of the intuition, the Green vMeme of Spiral Dynamics. But once that is touched, one may polarize faster (and ultimately sufficiently for harvest) because things are seen in a new light allowing for possibly more efficient use of catalyst. IMHO, the key to polarizing sufficiently in a lifetime is reaching a point of acceptance where a fear reaction is not based on the illusory reflection of some aspect of self. Such fear is also manifest as anger. There is also not the binding rejection of self stemming from hope (that we see in distortions such as zealotry).

This is pretty much what I meant by becoming spiritually aware.

(08-06-2012, 07:09 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]This is pretty much what I meant by becoming spiritually aware.

OK, you preceded that with 'awakening' which is sort of like an ongoing developmental process which has its beginnings before harvestability. At that point, merely apprehend that something 'more' and, at the point, have more of a choice to apply yourself. It is that volitional work that allows polarization to harvestable levels - not the awakening itself per se. Hopefully, there was awakening long before that point in prior lifetimes, cause there is much catalyst to recognize and process once one has individuated enough to make more conscious decisions. In initially accessing one's 'divinity', there can be actually become a 'stumbling block' if somehow sufficiency (usually embodied in someone else's 'idea') is substituted for actual acceptance.

(08-06-2012, 07:05 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO, the key to polarizing sufficiently in a lifetime is reaching a point of acceptance where a fear reaction is not based on the illusory reflection of some aspect of self. Such fear is also manifest as anger.

What's the difference between a "fear reaction" and Ra's "emotional charge?" Do you feel that fear/anger are the most efficient catalysts to utilize for 3D polarization, with other emotions leading to more nuanced balance after one has sufficiently polarized?

I think there are many that are aware of the spiritual nature of creation that will continue to make choices that would not make them harvestable as having evolved further.

If one chooses not to evolve for whatever reason, they will not be harvested in the same manner as one who has evolved.

(08-06-2012, 07:39 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2012, 07:05 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO, the key to polarizing sufficiently in a lifetime is reaching a point of acceptance where a fear reaction is not based on the illusory reflection of some aspect of self. Such fear is also manifest as anger.

What's the difference between a "fear reaction" and Ra's "emotional charge?"

emotional charge can be a fear reaction, but it can be any unconscious reaction that stimulates the unconscious (even seemingly positive experience, something that would be the opposite of fear). Fear (as an unconscious reaction) is a way to put more distance between one's awareness and one's self (some unaddressed aspect of self). Hope (as worthy the idealized object of hope may be) is a way to magnify some other aspect of self, which usually has its purpose in not leaving space for something which needs to be addressed. I have found that many people unconsciously feed that charge, because it can offer a sense of certainty and power which they are unable to access otherwise.

(08-06-2012, 07:39 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]Do you feel that fear/anger are the most efficient catalysts to utilize for 3D polarization, with other emotions leading to more nuanced balance after one has sufficiently polarized?

Well as Ra said, everything is catalyst. It starts with the spiritual and works its way down (or up). If it reaches the point of fear/anger then much has already been ignored, and so that would not be very efficient at all. But if people were 100% efficient, there would be no use for the incarnation. After more balance, there is less charge and more of 'you' actually addressing a situation 'for what it is' - that is, at least for how it may be seen from your conscious worldview. The nuance would be a capacity for acceptance and some kind of an appreciation which tends to be more effective in further promoting consciousness.

By promoting consciousness, do you mean polarizing?

Another prediction by Q'uo

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._1128.aspx Wrote:T1: In the Law of One books I remember Ra told us that there is a complete transition into the fourth density in 2012. When I think of the current, chaotic war situation I wonder if this stage is delayed. I know you cannot give us the detailed dates but could you focus a little about the current situation? Thank you.

We are those of Q’uo, and we thank you, my brother, and are glad to attempt to speak to your query.

Firstly, the dating of the transition into full fourth-density energy for your planet is fixed. It is a matter of your time moving forward. Just as summer gives way to fall and fall gives way to winter, so one age gives way to another and one period of time is succeeded by another. For your particular planet and your particular solar system, there is a turning of energy, a rotation into new space/time as well as new time/space. That is inevitable and is as the ticking of the clock. This will have been accomplished just as it has been foreseen by many at the approximate date of late in the twelfth month of 2011.

So, roughly speaking, 2012 shall see the full realization, in terms of the inner planes of your planet and the time/space aspects of your planet. Fourth density, in 2012, will be your system of energy. Now, my brother, as you can well imagine, there is much energy upon your planet at this time embodied in the persons of the individuals living upon it and the societal groups and structures and governments that these people have created that will be quite inappropriately geared for welcoming fourth-density energy. As we have said, there is a habit of contraction and fear and attempt to control among your people which may well end in entities doing great damage to each other and to the planet because, faced with energies they cannot control, they may well contract themselves into the Armageddon that they so fear. We are very hopeful, however, that this will not occur. There is a growing groundswell among your peoples at the soul level of honest and deep revulsion and distaste for the energies of control and destruction.

(08-06-2012, 08:39 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]By promoting consciousness, do you mean polarizing?

Offering opportunities to polarize.

We seek within.

Just FYI (since the OP is new here and just in case the OP did notice), TheEternal channeled his answer. If you are interested in a different perspective or have questions or have concepts you need clarifying, I recommend reading this thread.

(08-05-2012, 10:25 PM)ApponoAstos Wrote: [ -> ]I have read a good bit of the Ra material, but I'm still not sure what exactly happens to us during Ascension. Is it like the Rapture where our physical bodies disappear? Where do we go? What happens to those who do not ascend? What exactly is 4th density? Is there still a physical reality?

If the Ra material were the only metaphysical body of philosophical and cosmological thought that I felt was worth going off of, I would tell you that the ascension to 4th density is a very gradual event, and that it requires one's 3rd density body to die, so you may reincarnate in a higher functioning 4th density body. According to Ra, when you die during the time of harvest, you walk the "stairs of light" and stop when the light of the creator becomes too bright or glaring to continue.

Your ability to withstand, absorb, or appreciate this intelligent light is in direct proportion to how polarized you are. It's basically related to how unified you are, consciously (and perhaps to some degree unconsciously), with the creator. That's the whole reason polarity matters in the first place. Seek and become one, whether joined in service to self, or joined in service to others. The closer to oneness you are, or in other words: the creator, the more conscious or higher vibrational you are. Higher vibrational does not necessarily mean "nice" though. 4th density STS is higher vibrational than 3rd density STO, but are not terribly concerned with preserving your free will.

Now, I have also investigated many other sources besides Ra.

Many individuals regressed in trance, into past lives, and between lives, have interesting things to say about the ascension of the planet and previous ascensions of this nature. In many of these recounts, what Ra calls "4th density" is described as a sort of an "in the middle place" between subtle non-physical energy, and gross matter. The term many regressees use is "etheric", but, in the Ra material, Ra chooses to use the word "etheric" in a different sense than many other esotericists, theosophists, and occultists use the term. Ra uses it to describe the indigo body, the shaping body or form-maker (analog for intelligent energy).

Now, in the context of these regressees, this so called "etheric plane", between the nonphysical and the dense physicality we are accustomed to now, is experienced by these etheric beings as very physical in nature. The main difference, as described, is that it feels very physical, but one is also extremely aware of the thought of others, have pronounced psychic abilities, and reality manipulation via focused thought is MUCH easier and quicker to manifest than in our plane of existence. Also, the life-span is ridiculously long. In fact, on the plane described, in most cases beings don't die until they choose to die. They are virtually physically immortal on this plane. Most space faring extra-terrestrials are described as coming from this plane, which sounds very much like Ra's 4th density. It is basically a tangible reality, without so many limitations. A very harmonious plane of existence.

The vibrations of planet Earth are described as speeding up, and that Earth is gradually moving into this higher, more energetic dimension.

Another interesting feature, recounted by multiple subjects, and which somewhat clashes with what Ra has said, is that they have stated it is possible to raise the vibration of a 3rd density, or 3-dimensional body up until it is resonant with this etheric plane. They call it "turning up the power". Whether possible or not, it is interesting to think about. I can't say i'm particularly attached to either scenario.

There is no real death, in either regard. There is no annihilation of your personality at the cessation of your physical vehicle, so don't fear the outcome either way. You are eternal.

I believe the truth is somewhere in the middle, and I don't think all will transition the same way. The possibilities are infinite.

Are you sure work in the green is spiritual work? As I understand it, work in the indigo is work in spirituality. Green ray activation is required for and leads to work in the indigo after fast tracking past/through the blue ray. However, work in the beginnings of 4th density love or understanding is not the same as connection to Intelligent Infinity.

(08-06-2012, 07:05 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-06-2012, 06:10 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]IMHO the Harvest is the awakening. If you become spiritually aware at this time, then I would say you are harvestable.

No way. This is definitely not necessarily true. Becoming 'spiritually aware' is just barely opening the 'heart'. It is the beginning of the validation of subjective experience, the use of the intuition, the Green vMeme of Spiral Dynamics. But once that is touched, one may polarize faster (and ultimately sufficiently for harvest) because things are seen in a new light allowing for possibly more efficient use of catalyst. IMHO, the key to polarizing sufficiently in a lifetime is reaching a point of acceptance where a fear reaction is not based on the illusory reflection of some aspect of self. Such fear is also manifest as anger. There is also not the binding rejection of self stemming from hope (that we see in distortions such as zealotry).

Perhaps I may expand. Of course there are different ways to interpret the requirements leading to harvestability (of those positively charged).

From the energetic perspective, it requires the maintained activation of green ray, the result of clearing and balancing the lower triad of rays, their strength determined by polarity. Balance is more important than overall strength, even though overall strength is helpful for accelerating spiritual advancement.

According to Dr. David Hawkins, a consciousness level of 500 is required.

From the human perspective, one must work from the heart, thus be a loving, compassionate, forgiving, and giving person.

To paraphrase Q'uo, "The longest journey one can make within the illusion is from the head to the heart".

So then, yes this is something that is occurring within and most will not even be aware of it, but then again, every butterfly does not spread its wings at once. There is no wrong in that.

I used to fret that if only I had another thirty or fifty years to work on my progress, I would be able to use the knowledge I have thus far learned and advance greatly. I used to think the harvest would be 3 days of darkness (initiation) followed by a bunch of missing people except for the really really happy ones that didn't care. I'm not too worried about it now, I understand that if I do the work, time will be given. The higher self sees to all needs. All is well. All is perfect.

Adonai

undecided as it is the instant fulfilliment of all subjective desires for a subjective infinity that continues through all time.

Imagine placing yourself in a repeating DNA like loop pattern. When the bands of the loop face directly away from you giving a "plate" inmpression and you look through the "empty" areas into "nothingess" which side you look t hrough is STO/STS and the otherside is "infinity" and you looking is getting the echo of your previous actions return to you. AKA: Harvest of wha tyou have sown.

We applaud your last line, as a "harvest of what has been sown" is very much the nature of this harvest. What have humans sown for themselves?