Bring4th

This is just a small humbug that I've had rolling around in my noggin for a while. As I understand it we all incarnate on Earth (or elsewhere) with the purpose of learning some life lesson or other while we are alive. If we successfully learn (deal with, make peace with, etc) that lesson then we do not have to go through another incarnation with that issue as an obstacle for us.

This makes a good deal of sense in a different density such as 4th, since in that dimension we have conscious memories of our past lives. So how does this work in 3rd density, where we do not? Is it that we have the memory of resolving those issues in our subconscious, so that we can effectively side-step them in our present life? Or our lives are planned (by us in time/space, pre-incarnation) to an extent that we probably won't run in to those issues again? Or our higher selves sort of watch out for us to steer us towards lessons that are relevant this time around, or a combination of all of these?

Curious to hear your thoughts!

Hi, L.

Well, I'm not aware of Ra or Q'uo quotes which address this...although I'm sure they're out there. Even so, here's a thought:

When dealing with stuff that requires serious "study" one usually comes back to it again and again at different altitudes in spiral fashion. Take accepting loss of a loved one, for instance. As one processes catalyst of this sort repeatedly the ability to recover and learn from it might increase in efficiency, thus making it feel like less of a "lesson." It's hard to believe, however, that catalyst like that can be avoided completely in any space/time incarnation (excluding higher negative densities).

Nice try, though.

(10-30-2009, 07:40 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]When dealing with stuff that requires serious "study" one usually comes back to it again and again at different altitudes in spiral fashion. Take accepting loss of a loved one, for instance. As one processes catalyst of this sort repeatedly the ability to recover and learn from it might increase in efficiency, thus making it feel like less of a "lesson." It's hard to believe, however, that catalyst like that can be avoided completely in any space/time incarnation (excluding higher negative densities).

That makes sense... basically the lesson is 'learned', thus the catalyst is no longer a catalyst, although you still have the same experiences.

(10-30-2009, 07:40 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Nice try, though.

haha!

Still though, how do we remember to react better to catalyst over the course of various lives, if we always go back to 'default settings' so to speak, when we're born? Surely something is remembered, else we couldn't do a better job next time.

(10-30-2009, 07:51 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]haha!

Still though, how do we remember to react better to catalyst over the course of various lives, if we always go back to 'default settings' so to speak, when we're born? Surely something is remembered, else we couldn't do a better job next time.

Again, I can't conjure forth appropriate citations (maybe someone else can), but it's not exactly a matter of "remembering." As your being becomes more and more regularized (crystallized), you have more of an inherent sense of what you are. Therefore, as you say, you experience things, but they no longer trigger deep unaccepted memories or feelings...because those previous triggers have blended into the crystallization, if you will.

At least, this is how I choose to view it.

(10-30-2009, 08:21 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I can't conjure forth appropriate citations (maybe someone else can), but it's not exactly a matter of "remembering." As your being becomes more and more regularized (crystallized), you have more of an inherent sense of what you are. Therefore, as you say, you experience things, but they no longer trigger deep unaccepted memories or feelings...because those previous triggers have blended into the crystallization, if you will.

Yup, that makes sense to me. I figured it was something on these lines also, yet didn't know exactly how to put it in to words. Anyhow, cheers!

(10-31-2009, 10:30 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-30-2009, 08:21 PM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Again, I can't conjure forth appropriate citations (maybe someone else can), but it's not exactly a matter of "remembering." As your being becomes more and more regularized (crystallized), you have more of an inherent sense of what you are. Therefore, as you say, you experience things, but they no longer trigger deep unaccepted memories or feelings...because those previous triggers have blended into the crystallization, if you will.

Yup, that makes sense to me. I figured it was something on these lines also, yet didn't know exactly how to put it in to words. Anyhow, cheers!

Roger that. And I can add a word of encouragement here. The deeper one enters into a process the conduces to crystallization, after awhile the work begins to feedback on itself and accelerate. At least it looks that way compared to where you where. Compared to where you desire to be, maybe, maybe not.

Cheers to you!

(10-30-2009, 06:24 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]This is just a small humbug that I've had rolling around in my noggin for a while. As I understand it we all incarnate on Earth (or elsewhere) with the purpose of learning some life lesson or other while we are alive. If we successfully learn (deal with, make peace with, etc) that lesson then we do not have to go through another incarnation with that issue as an obstacle for us.

This makes a good deal of sense in a different density such as 4th, since in that dimension we have conscious memories of our past lives. So how does this work in 3rd density, where we do not? Is it that we have the memory of resolving those issues in our subconscious, so that we can effectively side-step them in our present life? Or our lives are planned (by us in time/space, pre-incarnation) to an extent that we probably won't run in to those issues again? Or our higher selves sort of watch out for us to steer us towards lessons that are relevant this time around, or a combination of all of these?

Curious to hear your thoughts!

Hi Lavazza,

I'm not sure how far your study of the Law of One has taken you, but I suspect that you haven't yet ventured into Book IV (the most confusing, intriguing and rewarding IMHO). Please allow me to whet your appetite with a quote that only touches on the topic or how biases are brought forth into a new incarnation, and the role that the Higher-Self plays in the process of introducing catalysts.

The Law of One, Book IV, Session 92 Wrote:Questioner: Turning, then, to my analogy or example of the newborn infant and its undistorted Matrix of the Mind, this newborn infant has its subconscious mind veiled from the Matrix of the Mind. The second archetype, the Potentiator of the Mind, is going to act at some time through the veil—though I hesitate to say through the veil since I don’t think that is a very good way of stating it—but the Potentiator of the Mind will act to create a condition such as the example I mentioned of the infant touching a hot object. The hot object we could take as random catalyst. The infant can either leave its hand on the hot object or rapidly remove it. My question is, is the Potentiator of the Mind involved at all in this experience and, if so, how?

Ra: I am Ra. The Potentiator of Mind and of Body are both involved in the questing of the infant for new experience. The mind/body/spirit complex which is an infant has one highly developed portion which may be best studied by viewing the Significators of Mind and Body. You notice we do not include the spirit. That portion of a mind/body/spirit complex is not reliably developed in each and every mind/body/spirit complex. Thusly the infant’s significant self, which is the harvest of biases of all previous incarnational experiences, offers to this infant biases with which to meet new experience.

However, the portion of the infant which may be articulated by the Matrix of the Mind is indeed unfed by experience and has the bias of reaching for this experience through free will just as intelligent energy in the kinetic phase, through free will, creates the Logos. These sub-sub-Logoi, then, or those portions of the mind/body/spirit complex which may be articulated
by consideration of the Potentiators of Mind and Body, through free will, choose to make alterations in their experiential continuum. The results of these experiments in novelty are then recorded in the portion of the mind and body articulated by the Matrices thereof.

Questioner: Are all activities that the entity has from the state of infancy a function of the Potentiator of the Mind?

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, although the functions of the mind are indeed paramount over those of the body, the body being the creature of the mind, certainly not all actions of a mind/body/spirit complex could be seen to be due to the potentiating qualities of the mind complex alone as the body and in some cases the spirit also potentiates action. Secondly, as a mind/body/spirit complex becomes aware of the process of spiritual evolution, more and more of the activities of the mind and body which precipitate activity are caused by those portions of the mind/body/spirit complex which are articulated by the archetypes of Transformation.

What Ra describes in the experiences of an infant is a set of complex interactions between the significators and potentiators of the mind and body (acting behind the veil) as they present their biases for seeking and processing catalysts to the unfed matrix of the mind (in its conscious, veiled state). You can see then, that even with a new born child, the distilled biases from all previous incarnations (even those of 1D and 2D) influence, or color how a new experience is perceived.

As the mind/body/spirit evolves and chooses a polarity, the process can become more and more conscious, but it is still based upon the distilled (or programmed) biases that have been built up over eons of existence. One way to think of the crystallization process that peregrine refers to, is that through meditation and conscious consideration of the catalysts presented to us, and our reaction to them, we are in effect re-programming our biases to allow us to more fully process each catalyst. In the study of the Archetypes, it is through the archetypes of the Transformation of the mind, body, and spirit that one accomplishes this reprogramming.

There is much, much more to be discussed and learned regarding this process, and here again I feel myself much better qualified to learn/teach than to teach/learn, but I would be happy to muddle through some of this especially if we may draw on the assistance of those more qualified than I to tap into its rich mysteries.

Love and Light,

3D Sunset

I think the learning has to do with the balancing process; perhaps you are too proud and need to learn humility or vice versa. When you gain the qualities you need to develop, they are there inside you and you go on to another lesson. Think of yourself as a teenager and then think of yourself now. How has your perspective broadened? This shows the lessons you have incorporated into your being. Often the same things occur over and over (such as creepy boy/girl friends, cruel authority figures, ungrateful friends); it is hard to know how to grow out of these and takes a lot of thought and inner exploration.

lavazza Wrote:how do we remember to react better to catalyst over the course of various lives, if we always go back to 'default settings' so to speak, when we're born? Surely something is remembered, else we couldn't do a better job next time.

This is my current tentative model concerning this:
As several have said, the knowledge gained from each learning experience is embodied by us, and adds to the substance of our being. When we come into a new life, our essence contains on some level the substance of all of our learning up until this incarnation. Certain aspects of our past knowledge tend to 'awaken' in use when we encounter certain (internal or external) catalysts, and over time as we mature into our new 'habitation'. That may explain why deep insights can occasionally come to a person without any obvious catalyst; we are simply remembering something from our "past" incarnations that may be valuable in this one. I think this could also explain to some degree where some of our talents/weaknesses come from; our talents may be (in some cases) the rewards/gifts of our other incarnations (on this world or others or elsewhere). For instance, if I had been deeply involved with learning/understanding music in another life, either as a musician, or in some other form, I might find that in this life I have certain amount of musical talent.

I am not sure of any of this, however. These are simply ideas which have formed in my mind over time, but as of yet I have no conscious experience with which to verify them. I hope they are helpful.

(11-04-2009, 12:05 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lavazza,

Hey 3D, Long time no see!

(11-04-2009, 12:05 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure how far your study of the Law of One has taken you, but I suspect that you haven't yet ventured into Book IV (the most confusing, intriguing and rewarding IMHO).

Quite right, I am currently near the end of Book III, somewhere near the late sixties (session numbers).

The Law of One, Book IV, Session 92 Wrote:Questioner: Turning, then, to my analogy or example of the newborn infant and its undistorted Matrix of the Mind, this newborn infant has its subconscious mind veiled from the Matrix of the Mind. The second archetype, the Potentiator of the Mind, is going...

(snip)

...by those portions of the mind/body/spirit complex which are articulated by the archetypes of Transformation.

Is Ra making reference to the archetypes in the Tarot card deck? I am unfamiliar with these. Is there some place that offers an explanation for each of them as they are interpreted in TLOO? I found this, but it has so much information as to be un-helpful: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tarot

(11-04-2009, 12:05 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]What Ra describes in the experiences of an infant is a set of complex interactions between the significators and potentiators of the mind and body (acting behind the veil) as they present their biases for seeking and processing catalysts to the unfed matrix of the mind (in its conscious, veiled state). You can see then, that even with a new born child, the distilled biases from all previous incarnations (even those of 1D and 2D) influence, or color how a new experience is perceived.

Makes sense to me, and coincides with others' explanations within this thread.

(11-04-2009, 12:05 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]As the mind/body/spirit evolves and chooses a polarity, the process can become more and more conscious, but it is still based upon the distilled (or programmed) biases that have been built up over eons of existence. One way to think of the crystallization process that peregrine refers to, is that through meditation and conscious consideration of the catalysts presented to us, and our reaction to them, we are in effect re-programming our biases to allow us to more fully process each catalyst. In the study of the Archetypes, it is through the archetypes of the Transformation of the mind, body, and spirit that one accomplishes this reprogramming.

This may be true, but all of my incarnations in India, sleeping on beds of nails still hasn't reprogrammed my reactions to pain catalysts. Just kidding of course! The above quote also makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing!

---

(11-04-2009, 07:27 PM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]I think the learning has to do with the balancing process; perhaps you are too proud and need to learn humility or vice versa. When you gain the qualities you need to develop, they are there inside you and you go on to another lesson. Think of yourself as a teenager and then think of yourself now. How has your perspective broadened? This shows the lessons you have incorporated into your being. Often the same things occur over and over (such as creepy boy/girl friends, cruel authority figures, ungrateful friends); it is hard to know how to grow out of these and takes a lot of thought and inner exploration.

Yes. The comparison of teenage years vs. adult years is a good one to make, certainly we learn many, many things about our selves in between those two stages. I'm sure when looking at all of our incarnations and thinking on it as a single lifetime, we have all had hundreds of "teenage years" incarnations. I hope (and suspect) that many humans are now in their "adult years" level incarnations, although this certainly can't be exclusively the case when we examine some of the more bellicose aspects of our collective humanity.

Lavazza Wrote:Is Ra making reference to the archetypes in the Tarot card deck? I am unfamiliar with these. Is there some place that offers an explanation for each of them as they are interpreted in TLOO?

It is actually making referense to the Major Arcana of the Tarot. The last half of Book IV is dedicated to the study of the seven architypes of the mind, and touches on those of the body and spirit, and that of the fool. The contact was lost before they could cover all 22 cards of the Major Arcana, but there is a wealth of information none the less.

Enjoy your reading and studying!

3D Sunset

(11-05-2009, 05:26 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]That may explain why deep insights can occasionally come to a person without any obvious catalyst; we are simply remembering something from our "past" incarnations that may be valuable in this one.

I agree. I've read about many people who have sudden flashes of the distant past, or flashes of inspiration from seemingly "nowhere" just when they need it most.

(11-05-2009, 05:26 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]I think this could also explain to some degree where some of our talents/weaknesses come from; our talents may be (in some cases) the rewards/gifts of our other incarnations (on this world or others or elsewhere). For instance, if I had been deeply involved with learning/understanding music in another life, either as a musician, or in some other form, I might find that in this life I have certain amount of musical talent.

This may be true (who is to say?) but I can offer at least that this would not hold up from the perspective of Michael Newton, an in-between lives hypno-therapist who has written a few books about the topic. According to his research, we are given the freedom to choose for ourselves (before incarnation) what talents, weaknesses and so on we will have for the next life, in order to best learn whatever lesson there is for us to learn. Not to say of course that we couldn't endeavor to learn whatever we wanted to, such as a musical instrument, free will always exists.

As to Karama however, that may well be a different thing altogether.

cheers!

I'm nervous, this is my first post. When I read all the threads here, I was compelled to register, to post, a hope of being of service.

Lavazza wrote:
Or our lives are planned (by us in time/space, pre-incarnation) to an extent that we probably won't run in to those issues again?

Allow me to direct you to a transcript in the LL library:

http://www.llresearch.org/transcripts/is..._0926.aspx

The answer to the first question of the session provides much insight to your "humbug". The seventh paragraph begins, "It may be said that the self creates its own catalyst or temptations", and my suggestion is to begin there.

Marina wrote:
Often the same things occur over and over (such as creepy boy/girl friends, cruel authority figures, ungrateful friends); it is hard to know how to grow out of these and takes a lot of thought and inner exploration.

The aforementioned transcript addresses this repetition of catalyst:
"You will find that the incarnational lesson revolves and comes around again as long as you are within incarnation."
"Each time it appears on the horizon of your life, it is meeting you where you are and it is ready to help you move forward."

Also, in the Ra Material 18.5:
"Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away."

Obviously, Marina, these are snippets. I offer them as they popped into my head upon reading your post.

If considered appropriate here, I would share a quote from another author, as it is on point, and a source of encouragement to me:
"I've been through all this before," says the Warrior of Light to his heart.
"Yes, you have been through all this before," replies his heart. "But you have never been beyond it."

(11-09-2009, 04:33 PM)otherself-jesse Wrote: [ -> ]I'm nervous, this is my first post. When I read all the threads here, I was compelled to register, to post, a hope of being of service.

As another newbie, let me say: welcome! Thanks for adding your ideas to the conversation.

What is the excerpt from? Is it something by Dan Millman?

(10-30-2009, 06:24 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]This is just a small humbug that I've had rolling around in my noggin for a while. As I understand it we all incarnate on Earth (or elsewhere) with the purpose of learning some life lesson or other while we are alive. If we successfully learn (deal with, make peace with, etc) that lesson then we do not have to go through another incarnation with that issue as an obstacle for us.

This makes a good deal of sense in a different density such as 4th, since in that dimension we have conscious memories of our past lives. So how does this work in 3rd density, where we do not? Is it that we have the memory of resolving those issues in our subconscious, so that we can effectively side-step them in our present life? Or our lives are planned (by us in time/space, pre-incarnation) to an extent that we probably won't run in to those issues again? Or our higher selves sort of watch out for us to steer us towards lessons that are relevant this time around, or a combination of all of these?

Curious to hear your thoughts!

______________________________________

There is an extensive review and extarction process in between lives. The core essence of the experiences and the biases are retained and anything not needed is discraded for the next life. So if you have learned a lesson you would normally not plan it, along with your higher self, again for a retest. unless you want to...