Bring4th

Dating Between Modern Humans and Neandertals

Quote:Dr. Sriram Sankararaman and colleagues measured the length of DNA pieces in the genomes of Europeans that are similar to Neandertals. Since recombination between chromosomes when egg and sperm cells are formed reduces the size of such pieces in each generation, the Neandertal-related pieces will be smaller the longer they have spent in the genomes of present-day people.

I have been following these stories about interbreeding between different species of humans for some time. I have a general interest in the subject, but am also piqued by the possible confirmation of genetic engineering of humans in deep antiquity as alluded to in the Ra Material.

I know this might not be the ideal place to ask this question, but I can't think of any other place where I can discuss science AND fringe topics. And I know there are other members here with a scientific background.

Now... from what I recall from my coursework in genetics about 15 years ago (I have had some medical genetics more recently, but not by much) when interspecies breeding occurs, it involves the exchange of entire chromosomes, not gene fragments, or as they say in this article, pieces.

Does anybody know- what would be the mechanism for exchange of gene fragments in an interspecies breeding scenario? I've read so many articles about this now, and it seems to have been taken for granted that this is possible.

But according to what I learned, it is not possible. Which leads me to believe that what we are seeing is, in fact, evidence of genetic engineering, and that scientists just can't (or won't) wrap their brains around the possibility.

Thoughts?

great i look forward to getting it on with the aliens

(10-09-2012, 09:51 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]great i look forward to getting it on with the aliens

It depends on what they look like for me.

I always liked these aliens from Captain Harlock (Albator).

wonder why they look like green orion slave girls haha

(10-09-2012, 10:45 AM)Oceania Wrote: [ -> ]wonder why they look like green orion slave girls haha

I recently watched that Enterprise episode.

I think what I like is the full body length hair.

(10-09-2012, 11:19 AM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]I think what I like is the full body length hair.

Are those aliens light beings?

(10-08-2012, 07:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Dating Between Modern Humans and Neandertals

Quote:Dr. Sriram Sankararaman and colleagues measured the length of DNA pieces in the genomes of Europeans that are similar to Neandertals. Since recombination between chromosomes when egg and sperm cells are formed reduces the size of such pieces in each generation, the Neandertal-related pieces will be smaller the longer they have spent in the genomes of present-day people.

I have been following these stories about interbreeding between different species of humans for some time. I have a general interest in the subject, but am also piqued by the possible confirmation of genetic engineering of humans in deep antiquity as alluded to in the Ra Material.

I know this might not be the ideal place to ask this question, but I can't think of any other place where I can discuss science AND fringe topics. And I know there are other members here with a scientific background.

Now... from what I recall from my coursework in genetics about 15 years ago (I have had some medical genetics more recently, but not by much) when interspecies breeding occurs, it involves the exchange of entire chromosomes, not gene fragments, or as they say in this article, pieces.

Does anybody know- what would be the mechanism for exchange of gene fragments in an interspecies breeding scenario? I've read so many articles about this now, and it seems to have been taken for granted that this is possible.

But according to what I learned, it is not possible. Which leads me to believe that what we are seeing is, in fact, evidence of genetic engineering, and that scientists just can't (or won't) wrap their brains around the possibility.

Thoughts?

I've always found the possibility of interbreeding between human and neanderthals very interesting. When I was studying anthropology this topic was pretty hotly debated. There were a lot of arguments both for and against, but a lot of Anthropologists are for the idea. What's interesting is that in addition to finding evidence of interbreeding with neanderthals in Europe and Southeast Asia, there has been evidence found that early humans in East Asia breed with another hominid species related to the Neanderthals called the Denisovans. There's even evidence of blends of denisovan and neanderthal genes in some populations. What's really interesting here is that there is only one fossil fragment of a Denisovan ever found, a pinky bone from Siberia. The Denisovans are the only hominid species identified using DNA analysis rather that analysis of skeletal structure. While the bone was found in Siberia, the population that is most likely to carry Denisovan DNA are found in the islands of the South Pacific.

I think that the existence of gene fragments makes sense with current reproductive models as I understand them. Each parent donates half of the genetic material and in each ovum or sperm cell the genetic material has been randomly recombined, so a hybrid hominid's sex chromosomes would be all mixed together, creating the possibility for fragments of genetic material from both the homo sapiens and the neanderthal parent, and as the generations continue forth the neanderthal/denisovan genes would get even more diluted and mixed in. At least that's how I understand it.

One of my professors told us that evidence for neanderthal interbreeding can express itself as red hair, projecting midface, large occipital bun on the back of the head, etc. But I'm not sure if that's true.

(10-11-2012, 09:10 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2012, 07:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Dating Between Modern Humans and Neandertals

Quote:Dr. Sriram Sankararaman and colleagues measured the length of DNA pieces in the genomes of Europeans that are similar to Neandertals. Since recombination between chromosomes when egg and sperm cells are formed reduces the size of such pieces in each generation, the Neandertal-related pieces will be smaller the longer they have spent in the genomes of present-day people.

I have been following these stories about interbreeding between different species of humans for some time. I have a general interest in the subject, but am also piqued by the possible confirmation of genetic engineering of humans in deep antiquity as alluded to in the Ra Material.

I know this might not be the ideal place to ask this question, but I can't think of any other place where I can discuss science AND fringe topics. And I know there are other members here with a scientific background.

Now... from what I recall from my coursework in genetics about 15 years ago (I have had some medical genetics more recently, but not by much) when interspecies breeding occurs, it involves the exchange of entire chromosomes, not gene fragments, or as they say in this article, pieces.

Does anybody know- what would be the mechanism for exchange of gene fragments in an interspecies breeding scenario? I've read so many articles about this now, and it seems to have been taken for granted that this is possible.

But according to what I learned, it is not possible. Which leads me to believe that what we are seeing is, in fact, evidence of genetic engineering, and that scientists just can't (or won't) wrap their brains around the possibility.

Thoughts?

I've always found the possibility of interbreeding between human and neanderthals very interesting. When I was studying anthropology this topic was pretty hotly debated. There were a lot of arguments both for and against, but a lot of Anthropologists are for the idea. What's interesting is that in addition to finding evidence of interbreeding with neanderthals in Europe and Southeast Asia, there has been evidence found that early humans in East Asia breed with another hominid species related to the Neanderthals called the Denisovans. There's even evidence of blends of denisovan and neanderthal genes in some populations. What's really interesting here is that there is only one fossil fragment of a Denisovan ever found, a pinky bone from Siberia. The Denisovans are the only hominid species identified using DNA analysis rather that analysis of skeletal structure. While the bone was found in Siberia, the population that is most likely to carry Denisovan DNA are found in the islands of the South Pacific.

I think that the existence of gene fragments makes sense with current reproductive models as I understand them. Each parent donates half of the genetic material and in each ovum or sperm cell the genetic material has been randomly recombined, so a hybrid hominid's sex chromosomes would be all mixed together, creating the possibility for fragments of genetic material from both the homo sapiens and the neanderthal parent, and as the generations continue forth the neanderthal/denisovan genes would get even more diluted and mixed in. At least that's how I understand it.

One of my professors told us that evidence for neanderthal interbreeding can express itself as red hair, projecting midface, large occipital bun on the back of the head, etc. But I'm not sure if that's true.

Thanks for the info! To your knowledge, would there be any way to discern whether genetic material from another species was introduced into an organism through engineering, rather than interbreeding?

(10-11-2012, 11:30 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-11-2012, 09:10 AM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]

(10-08-2012, 07:46 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [ -> ]Dating Between Modern Humans and Neandertals

Quote:Dr. Sriram Sankararaman and colleagues measured the length of DNA pieces in the genomes of Europeans that are similar to Neandertals. Since recombination between chromosomes when egg and sperm cells are formed reduces the size of such pieces in each generation, the Neandertal-related pieces will be smaller the longer they have spent in the genomes of present-day people.

I have been following these stories about interbreeding between different species of humans for some time. I have a general interest in the subject, but am also piqued by the possible confirmation of genetic engineering of humans in deep antiquity as alluded to in the Ra Material.

I know this might not be the ideal place to ask this question, but I can't think of any other place where I can discuss science AND fringe topics. And I know there are other members here with a scientific background.

Now... from what I recall from my coursework in genetics about 15 years ago (I have had some medical genetics more recently, but not by much) when interspecies breeding occurs, it involves the exchange of entire chromosomes, not gene fragments, or as they say in this article, pieces.

Does anybody know- what would be the mechanism for exchange of gene fragments in an interspecies breeding scenario? I've read so many articles about this now, and it seems to have been taken for granted that this is possible.

But according to what I learned, it is not possible. Which leads me to believe that what we are seeing is, in fact, evidence of genetic engineering, and that scientists just can't (or won't) wrap their brains around the possibility.

Thoughts?

I've always found the possibility of interbreeding between human and neanderthals very interesting. When I was studying anthropology this topic was pretty hotly debated. There were a lot of arguments both for and against, but a lot of Anthropologists are for the idea. What's interesting is that in addition to finding evidence of interbreeding with neanderthals in Europe and Southeast Asia, there has been evidence found that early humans in East Asia breed with another hominid species related to the Neanderthals called the Denisovans. There's even evidence of blends of denisovan and neanderthal genes in some populations. What's really interesting here is that there is only one fossil fragment of a Denisovan ever found, a pinky bone from Siberia. The Denisovans are the only hominid species identified using DNA analysis rather that analysis of skeletal structure. While the bone was found in Siberia, the population that is most likely to carry Denisovan DNA are found in the islands of the South Pacific.

I think that the existence of gene fragments makes sense with current reproductive models as I understand them. Each parent donates half of the genetic material and in each ovum or sperm cell the genetic material has been randomly recombined, so a hybrid hominid's sex chromosomes would be all mixed together, creating the possibility for fragments of genetic material from both the homo sapiens and the neanderthal parent, and as the generations continue forth the neanderthal/denisovan genes would get even more diluted and mixed in. At least that's how I understand it.

One of my professors told us that evidence for neanderthal interbreeding can express itself as red hair, projecting midface, large occipital bun on the back of the head, etc. But I'm not sure if that's true.

Thanks for the info! To your knowledge, would there be any way to discern whether genetic material from another species was introduced into an organism through engineering, rather than interbreeding?

I'm far from being an expert on these things, so I can't say for sure if there would be any tell-tale signs of genetic manipulation. Certainly it is a possibility, and Ra makes mention of genetic engineering in our past, so who knows?

---

I think an important thing to think about here is the idea of species. In biological terms a species is a population which can interbreed and produce viable offspring. A horse and a Donkey can produce offspring, mules, but those offspring are infertile, meaning that horses and donkeys are separate species, but can produce hybrids. If Homo Sapiens Sapiens can breed with Homo Sapiens Neanderthalensis and produce viable offspring that would mean that they are branches of the same species, more like different 'races' as we think of it. We have pretty good evidence that modern humans and neanderthals were able to produce offspring, the best evidence coming in the form of the skeletal remains of a teenage boy from 24,500 years ago found in Portugal which display both modern and neanderthal traits, but some anthropologists argue that this might have been a sterile hybrid, like a mule. If this is the case, how did we end up with neanderthal and denisovan genes in our DNA? Some Anthropologists argue that they are holdovers from a common ancestor before modern man and the neanderthals split.