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This may be a far out question, but I have been receiving vibrations lately to the contrary. Since this is an enlightened group, maybe one or two have sensed this or know of it. Have not discussed it with anyone until this post.

In Ra's Law of One, RA is asked about Lincoln. His response was this:

The one known as Abraham had an extreme difficulty in many ways and, due to physical, mental, and spiritual pain, was weary of life but without the orientation to self-destruction. In your time, 1853, this entity was contacted in sleep by a fourth-density being. This being was concerned with the battles between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth-density for many of your years.

This entity accepted the honor/duty of completing the one known as Abraham’s karmic patterns and the one known as Abraham discovered that this entity would attempt those things which the one known as Abraham desired to do but felt it could not. Thus the exchange was made.

The entity, Abraham, was taken to a plane of suspension until the cessation of its physical vehicle much as though we of Ra would arrange with this instrument to remain in the vehicle, come out of the trance state, and function as this instrument, leaving this instrument’s mind and spirit complex in its suspended state.

The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point, for that which you know as freedom had gained in acceptance as a possibility among many peoples. This entity saw the work done by those beginning the democratic concept of freedom, as you call it, in danger of being abridged or abrogated by the rising belief and use of the principle of the enslavement of entities. This is a negative concept of a fairly serious nature in your density. This entity, therefore, went forward into what it saw as the battle for the light, for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

This entity did not gain or lose karma by these activities due to its detachment from any outcome. Its attitude throughout was one of service to others, more especially to the downtrodden or enslaved. The polarity of the individual was somewhat, but not severely, lessened by the cumulative feelings and thought forms which were created due to large numbers of entities leaving the physical plane due to trauma of battle.


I would imagine that this fourth density entity also requested permission from the Counsel of Nine, and received approval. This was a situation where a spirit was replaced by another spirit and the lifeform continued.

In nature, as above so below, there are many symbiotic relationships. These are not relationships where one is replaced by another, but when two work for the enrichment of both. We mostly see this with some bacteria, plants, insects and animals. For example bees and flowers, shrimp and the goby fish, and the intestinal bacteria in humans. Two separate entities working for the enrichment of both, or in the human case one.

Now to my query. We know that higher density entities have a difficult time existing, in physical form, in third density. Those that do travel here take on a form, not of their natural state, which is probably difficult to maintain for long periods of time. Or, they reside in other earthly planes. What if a higher density entity, asks for, and receives permission from a third density being, to coexist in the same lifeform? This is also a symbiotic relationship. Two spirits coexisting in the same lifeform. Is this quiry registering with anyone in this group?

namaste
(11-01-2009, 09:39 PM)gharghur Wrote: [ -> ]Now to my query. We know that higher density entities have a difficult time existing, in physical form, in third density. Those that do travel here take on a form, not of their natural state, which is probably difficult to maintain for long periods of time.

That much is specifically addressed by Ra, in Session 12 from Book I:
Quote:Let us rephrase for clarity. The fourth density is, by choice, not visible to third density. It is possible for fourth density to be visible. However, it is not the choice of the fourth-density entity to be visible due to the necessity for concentration upon a rather difficult vibrational complex which is the third density you experience.

You asked:
Quote:Or, they reside in other earthly planes. What if a higher density entity, asks for, and receives permission from a third density being, to coexist in the same lifeform? This is also a symbiontic relationship. Two spirits coexisting in the same lifeform. Is this quiry registering with anyone in this group?

I don't know if that is specifically addressed by the Ra material. However, it does seem to relate to what Carla has described as her experience with fully conscious channeling. From her "A Channeling Handbook" chapter 1:
Quote:Channeling is the reproduction by words or sounds of concepts not generated within one’s own conscious mind but transmitted from the subconscious mind or through the subconscious mind into the conscious mind from an impersonal or nonpersonal entity or principle.
In that sense, any channelling experience that the channeler invited would be a kind of symbiotic relationship, wouldn't it?

(I assume that Carla would include writing, not just sound, as channeling, e.g. Neale Donald Walsh's "Conversations With God." Walsh says this is all handwritten rather than spoken.)

I don't have personal experience with this, because I respect Carla's advice to not try such channeling without a well-led group.

A lesser but still important type of spiritual symbiosis is described in Napoleon Hill's classic book Think And Grow Rich. About Faith, Hill wrote:
Quote:When faith is blended with the vibration of though, the subconscious mind instantly picks up the vibration, translates it into its spiritual equivalent, and transmits it to Infinite Intelligence, as in the case of prayer.
Of Imagination, Hill wrote:
Quote:Through the faculty of creative imagination,the finite mind of man has direct communication with Infinite Intelligence. It is the faculty through which "hunches" and "inspirations" are received. It is by this faculty that all basic, or new ideas are handed over to man.
It is through this faculty that thought vibrations from the minds of others are received. It is through this faculty that one individual may "tune in," or communicate with the subconscious minds of other men.

Hill's text (and many other "new thought" and "new age" teachings) seems to me to correspond with your query about symbiosis, and also with Carla's (and many others) perspective on channeling.

I'm curious why you posted in the "Wanderer Stories" forum, do you feel that you have had some kind of symbiotic experience?
Hi Questioner,
Thank you for your quick response.
Yes, can understand your perspective with channeling and connectedness with the higher self as a temporary, or from time to time, symbiotic experience.
My question is in regard to a more permanent situation, and full time (24/7) relationship. In other words, two spirits sharing one lifeform in a cooperative experience. Clearly this would entail a third density spirit coexisting with a higher density spirit. The reason for posting under wanderer.
cheers!
(11-01-2009, 09:39 PM)gharghur Wrote: [ -> ]Now to my query. We know that higher density entities have a difficult time existing, in physical form, in third density. Those that do travel here take on a form, not of their natural state, which is probably difficult to maintain for long periods of time. Or, they reside in other earthly planes. What if a higher density entity, asks for, and receives permission from a third density being, to coexist in the same lifeform? This is also a symbiotic relationship. Two spirits coexisting in the same lifeform. Is this quiry registering with anyone in this group?

Hell yeah Smile In my opinion and experience most organisms are a multitude of entities. Living a multitude of separate experiences. You know the term that we are so often in two minds about something. This is a quite accurate choice of words.

One of the most essential ingredients of the human body, mytochondria are in principle completely separate entities. They do not share our DNA and you've inherited your set from your mother, never from your father, without them you'd be dead in seconds.

There's a suggestion in many esoteric groups that the growth from 2nd density to third density was actually through the inclusion of an external component into the 2d entity. Basically the human animal became ensouled. I'm not so sure about this one, because where'd the 3d human soul come from in that case?

My personal experience of the whole wanderer business is not so much that I was at one point not human and then something happened and I was human but no longer what I was before. It's more like I'm both, now. As far as the individuals exist they express themselves in me as a careful mixture of qualities of these two attractors or entities that my consciousness revolves around..

In Sufism, my particular brand of religion, the individual does not exist but is an emergent quality from its components. Who also don't exist because they're an emergent quality from their components. And so on until we've after a days hard work effectively proven nothing can exist so we can begin drinking the nonexistent wine and laughing about jokes that don't exist either which is perfectly fine.

So in effect, you as an individual are not in symbiosis with anything else in your body. Parts of your self could be described as being in symbiosis with other parts of that self.

And offcourse you're in symbiosis with the rest of the world. Even if sometimes it seams unclear what exactly we're giving back in that relationship.

You ask specifically what if a higher density entity asks a lower density entity for permission to inhabit it's body. I think this is called a walk in but I have no experience there. I did once experience a lower density entity that had showed up in rituals and was now attempting to possess me. I put down very strict rules and allowed it to. Retrospectively this might have been a bit risky. But I was in a different life back then and it all ended well.

For one, this negative lower density entity was the mind of a severely damaged human being pretty much stuck on survival mode. Whether it's actions negatively affected others was something it could not begin to evaluate. It simply lacked the capacity. It was also starved for energy unable to generate it's own.

I didn't know this at the start, it felt more like a mosquito trying to get at my energy. I discovered all this over time. I told it that it could attach to my energy body and use my energy. Any sign of negative effects on me and I'd throw it out. It behaved. At first I hardly knew it was there. But over time it became stronger and I started figuring things out about it. I think it healed and started seeing things clearer for itself. It had some points of view on the less than friendly side of life that I learned about and it has even warned me. I didn't become a happier person through it. But I did figure out a lot about the dog eat dog way.

I would call the relationship symbiotic.
i think it is risky to allow another to reside with you because of our lack of sophistication or discernment. We are each a spark of the creator with a unique vibration. i believe our journey here on earth is a chance to express that and that this is an important task: to be you.
(11-02-2009, 03:09 PM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]i think it is risky to allow another to reside with you because of our lack of sophistication or discernment. We are each a spark of the creator with a unique vibration. i believe our journey here on earth is a chance to express that and that this is an important task: to be you.

But I am me Smile Who else would I be? I don't believe the creator can miss his goals by anything I choose to do. He created me, he created this. This mortal does not have a merest fraction of the power required to mess up Gods plans.

I admit it wasn't smart. But I did not get hurt and I learned that situations that at first sight are intimidating can be transmuted and mastered. The world is a savage garden. It needs a gardener and gardeners usually end up working with weeds. I also did not abandon my ideal of compassion. Some people experienced it's presence. I had a friend who sensed it and would banish it for me. I did not like that prospect at all. The presence was worrying, but banishing it felt like a stab to my gut.

At any rate I believe "our choices made in our pursuit of our ideal self" defines "who we are" much more than an inherent quality. I am as unique as a drop in the ocean Smile Just one of billions. I am who I am because of where I came from, but I choose to define myself in where I'm going.

The presence of this other hasn't been clear to me for a few years now. I think he's had a chance to catch his composure find his bearings and move on. The whole thing reminds me much more of a stray cat who initially was dirty, wary and desperate. Like me in that period incidentally. But later on just loosened up and actually gave me some insights in how people can be selfish through desperation. He was still no angel but hey.. A little care goes a long way.

And yeah you're right, it wasn't a smart move. BigSmile
(11-02-2009, 06:17 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]I had a friend who sensed it and would banish it for me. I did not like that prospect at all. The presence was worrying, but banishing it felt like a stab to my gut.

Feelings in the gut can be associated with the solar plexus. The solar plexus in turn is a physical site of integrity of self-identity and decision making. A sharp pain in the gut is often associated with an attack from outside. This would be an attack on one's integrity and freedom of choice. I have felt that myself, at times. This was when other people had made choices very destructive to me and tried to impose those choices on me, overriding my free will.

Could it be that the feeling was actually not yours? Could that feeling have been the guest entity you described, fearful or angry as it lost the use of your body?

Quote:I admit it wasn't smart.

I wonder if you could discuss that a little more. Or rather, could you discuss what you think now is a smarter way to think about this.

Quote:In Sufism, my particular brand of religion, the individual does not exist but is an emergent quality from its components. Who also don't exist because they're an emergent quality from their components. And so on until we've after a days hard work effectively proven nothing can exist so we can begin drinking the nonexistent wine and laughing about jokes that don't exist either which is perfectly fine.

That sounds like a delightful path to enlightenment, no pun intended.

Are you familiar with the "many I's" discussions of Gurdjieff, and if so is that just another way to describe what you learn in Sufism?

I didn't catch this to comment at first:

Quote:Since this is an enlightened group

It might be better to say it's a group of people interested in topics related to enlightenment. Some people here might be enlightened. Perhaps some have been enlightened in the past but aren't now. Some might be searching for enlightenment, some just intrigued by the concept. At a buffet you can be sure that everyone has some interest in food. But that does not necessarily mean you have a room full of healthy eaters.
Hi Ali,
Can certainly appreciate your sense of humor.
Agree there are a variety of symbiotic relationships ongoing in many entities: lower density lifeforms going about their normal activities within a higher density lifeform.
You are correct. There are billions of third density lifeforms on this planet. All at different stages of awareness. RA suggests that within the third density there are eight levels of awareness, similar to the eight colors of the chakra. Yet, each level has a multitude of levels within it. My experience suggests that this is in fact true. Relatively new third density beings are certainly more animalistic/emotional than older entities. Their thought perceptions are single-minded, and their purpose is self (family) preservation. As one evolves into a greater understanding, those characteristics are still present, but they take on a lesser and lesser significance.
A "walk in". Thank you I will "look into" that term.
You took an interesting risk, with your acceptance of the negative entity's request. A true exercise of service to others on a elevated scale of awareness. It certainly appears that you have passed your own test. Kudos!
Thank you for sharing, and helping to confirm a major part of this quiry.
namaste
(11-02-2009, 06:17 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-02-2009, 03:09 PM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]i think it is risky to allow another to reside with you because of our lack of sophistication or discernment. We are each a spark of the creator with a unique vibration. i believe our journey here on earth is a chance to express that and that this is an important task: to be you.

But I am me Smile Who else would I be? I don't believe the creator can miss his goals by anything I choose to do. He created me, he created this. This mortal does not have a merest fraction of the power required to mess up Gods plans.

I admit it wasn't smart. But I did not get hurt and I learned that situations that at first sight are intimidating can be transmuted and mastered. The world is a savage garden. It needs a gardener and gardeners usually end up working with weeds. I also did not abandon my ideal of compassion. Some people experienced it's presence. I had a friend who sensed it and would banish it for me. I did not like that prospect at all. The presence was worrying, but banishing it felt like a stab to my gut.

At any rate I believe "our choices made in our pursuit of our ideal self" defines "who we are" much more than an inherent quality. I am as unique as a drop in the ocean Smile Just one of billions. I am who I am because of where I came from, but I choose to define myself in where I'm going.

The presence of this other hasn't been clear to me for a few years now. I think he's had a chance to catch his composure find his bearings and move on. The whole thing reminds me much more of a stray cat who initially was dirty, wary and desperate. Like me in that period incidentally. But later on just loosened up and actually gave me some insights in how people can be selfish through desperation. He was still no angel but hey.. A little care goes a long way.

And yeah you're right, it wasn't a smart move. BigSmile

HI ALI QUADIR
I did not men this as a criticism of your experience--I was just making a reply to the larger question posed here. i am grateful that you described what happened to you--it was very interesting.
(11-03-2009, 10:40 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]
(11-02-2009, 06:17 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]I had a friend who sensed it and would banish it for me. I did not like that prospect at all. The presence was worrying, but banishing it felt like a stab to my gut.

Feelings in the gut can be associated with the solar plexus. The solar plexus in turn is a physical site of integrity of self-identity and decision making. A sharp pain in the gut is often associated with an attack from outside. This would be an attack on one's integrity and freedom of choice. I have felt that myself, at times. This was when other people had made choices very destructive to me and tried to impose those choices on me, overriding my free will.
Which was basically the behavior of my friend, and the feeling felt like a response to it. I think it's the same feeling you describe.

Quote:Could it be that the feeling was actually not yours? Could that feeling have been the guest entity you described, fearful or angry as it lost the use of your body?
It was my late teens, the concept empathy was not clearly explained to me... But I had it.. However the entity didn't ever take control of my body. I just felt it in my mind. It's not as if it tried to influence me into doing things. It's mind was just there and it had opinions and moods.

So it could have easily been the guest yes. The emotion accompanying the stab did not feel as a threat to me personally. It just felt cruel. On the other hand if faced with self pity (the guest) then the feeling of witnessing cruelty is often a projection partly or whole. I often wondered if I was wrong there. I even had a falling out with that friend partly over this.

This whole thing has "twofaces" all over.

Quote:
Quote:I admit it wasn't smart.
I wonder if you could discuss that a little more. Or rather, could you discuss what you think now is a smarter way to think about this.
My actions can be described as "fools blunder in where wise men fear to tread". I knew nothing, expected nothing and even had a hard time figuring out who I was supposed to be. I did not really care about the risks. I was slightly self destructive. I guess I had my share of those wanderer blues...

I have no smarter way now. If it happened again I'd have to improvise again. And I can't predict my choices.

Quote:
Quote:In Sufism, my particular brand of religion, the individual does not exist but is an emergent quality from its components. Who also don't exist because they're an emergent quality from their components. And so on until we've after a days hard work effectively proven nothing can exist so we can begin drinking the nonexistent wine and laughing about jokes that don't exist either which is perfectly fine.

That sounds like a delightful path to enlightenment, no pun intended.
I don't see any of them now. We are geographically very distant. And our paths just drifted apart. But I had great fun while it lasted. Sufism encourages it's followers to study and practice parts of other religions that they see as adding to their lives. The core tenet is to be a jewel thief. Find the best gems, then steal em for your own treasure chest. They're usually pretty open to new ideas.

Quote:Are you familiar with the "many I's" discussions of Gurdjieff, and if so is that just another way to describe what you learn in Sufism?
Actually I don't know Gurdjieff as well as he deserves to be known. But Gurdjieff was the man who introduced Sufism to the west. He specifically introduced Hazrat Inayat Khan who is the source of my particular tradition. If it wasn't for Gurjieff I would probably not be a Sufi. So I certainly owe him a debt of gratitude.

The reason Gurdjieff carried the Sufi's with him was that they resonated with him. He took many ideas from many people. I called the Sufi's jewel thiefs... He stole some of their jewels. A sufi getting robbed of his jewels is the summit of their philosophy! I imagine they would have liked the man. And that "many I's" idea could be inspired by Sufism because they very much share the notion. I've read some on the theory. I rather understand these I's to be almost blended into one at some points and pretty separate from each other at other points. Also they don't end in the body many of the minds are shared. Sufi's and Gurdjieff share the idea that mind exists of many subminds. Like water poored into a cup... You can see it as many drops and just one drop at the same time.

gharghur Wrote:Can certainly appreciate your sense of humor.
Agree there are a variety of symbiotic relationships ongoing in many entities: lower density lifeforms going about their normal activities within a higher density lifeform.
You are correct. There are billions of third density lifeforms on this planet. All at different stages of awareness. RA suggests that within the third density there are eight levels of awareness, similar to the eight colors of the chakra. Yet, each level has a multitude of levels within it. My experience suggests that this is in fact true. Relatively new third density beings are certainly more animalistic/emotional than older entities. Their thought perceptions are single-minded, and their purpose is self (family) preservation. As one evolves into a greater understanding, those characteristics are still present, but they take on a lesser and lesser significance.
I think this is correct. One could say that all these "single minded" perceptions are individual members of the symbiote who have become so dependent on each other that we cannot separate them. We often see them as one because something came into being that's neither one or the other. We usually only experience this trancendent result and not the ingredients of the symbiote those become less important. And every trancendence puts us on a higher level of awareness where we can again create the ingredients for the trancendent child that will lift us up even higher.


Quote:You took an interesting risk, with your acceptance of the negative entity's request. A true exercise of service to others on a elevated scale of awareness. It certainly appears that you have passed your own test. Kudos!
Thank you but I don't deserve the credit. I blundered into it it did not take a toll. And it wasn't smart.. Elevated awareness is not exactly the state I was in. Smile Sometimes stupid choices work out.

Quote:Thank you for sharing, and helping to confirm a major part of this quiry.
You had a clear opinion of your own. And it appears quite reliable.

Namaste.
Ali, thank you for helping me learn more about your experiences and about Sufism.

I like the "jewel thief" concept. That seems to me to go well with the type of disclaimer used by Q'uo and some other entities:
Quote:As always, before we begin we would enjoin you to use all discrimination as you listen to what we have to say, harvesting for your later thought those thoughts of ours which resonate with you and leaving the rest behind. If you will use your powers of discrimination and trust in them you shall not be led astray by slick words and by shallow thoughts but shall remain within your integrity and follow your own process. We greatly thank you for this consideration as it allows us to speak freely those thoughts which we would share with you at this time.
In other words: got some jewels here if you want 'em! BigSmile
Look behind you, a Venusian bovine! Tongue
Thank you all for your responses and especially Ali for the details of his real life experience. If we remain with the theme of the quiry and expand it a bit, it may start to resonate with others.

In the metaphysical world there are practices known to us as white magic and black magic.
In general, the adept uses white magic to project positivity and in summoning its spiritual companions to work toward the greater good. In black magic the adept, and many inexperienced practioners, project negativity and summon spiritual accomplices to work toward self-centered goals. While the adept, in both polarities of magic, can discern entities that arrive into its awareness. It can also cast off those that are not fitting into its agenda. Yet, the inexperienced expose themselves haphazardly, and sometimes even invite, not only entities they did not summon, but also those more spiritually powerful than themselves.

In this physical plane of free will and confusion. If one freely invites an entity to enter into oneself and join it in this or that task. After some time, one would have a difficult time discerning the others thoughts from their own thoughts. Eventually, if the invited entity is indeed more powerful it can actually mislead one into thinking that all thoughts are its own. Naturally, this can happen to inexperienced practitioners of white or black magic. But the entities that wish to control will almost always be of the STS negative persuasion.

Might it be that some inexperienced practioners of magic, white or black, have in fact invited others entities within themselves, and, some more powerful entities have assumed control of that lifeform. Does this resonate with anyone with the group?

namaste
It looks like Ra discusses this in book 3. From Session 64:
Quote:The principle behind any ritual of the white magical nature is to so configure the stimuli which reach down into the trunk of mind that this arrangement causes the generation of disciplined and purified emotion or love which then may be both protection and the key to the gateway to intelligent infinity.

Here is the way I interpret this material.

In the case of an intended service to others orientation, I don't see that there would be a need to "cast off" other STO entities. Suppose an entity of loving acceptance and service showed up with an offer that wasn't of interest. One could simply say, thanks but I'll pass, and they would respect that. Much of the L/L Research information is about the white-hat types trying to figure out how to get a message to those who want it, without disturbing those who'd just as soon not be bothered now.

In the case of intended service to others, Ra has a lot of say about the STS drive to "jockey for position" at every level, density and opportunity. The goal there is always to build and maintain hierarchies of control. Sometimes this comes through being smarter or more clever than other entities, sometimes from just plain overpowering them. In any event, whoever is the most impressive leader builds their score, so to speak, by having more followers.

The problem is that a lot of energy is expended when the two sides collide. When an other-loving entity is subject to "psychic greeting," sooner or later it will say, "Thank you for the opportunity to join your hierarchy, however I prefer to serve the Creator with more flexibility and acceptance than your hierarchy could provide." When a self-loving entity has an opportunity to accept another entity as an equal, it will say, "I don't see a way to build a greater structure of control with your offer of an equality-accepting network, so there's not a place for you here." According to Ra, there's a 6D standoff along these lines right now.

Because of this fundamental incompatibility, I don't see symbiosis as something that could be sustained very well when the underlying polarities are opposite. Eventually host or guest would be damaged by the attempt to merge incompatible energies.

Thus the nature of challenging the entities by a standard of polarization, as Carla teaches.

I appreciate your bringing up and expanding the inquiry. I'd love to see someone with more wisdom on the subject enlighten us both.
Hi Questioner,

In regard to your reply.
You bring up a good point about compatibility and acceptance of other entities, invited or not, within ones awareness. This is another whole area of discussion. I emphasized the risks to inexperienced practitioners of white/black magic, in order to separate them from those that are adepts. As we know there are risks for both the intruder and the adept in making contact. For example, STS entities wishing to gather power by approaching an STO adept, in hope of dominating them, risks the chance of losing some of its own power, if the adept is far more powerful than they.

My inquiry, if you will, is if anyone is aware of inexperienced individuals subjecting themselves, unknowingly, to STS entities that have gradually convinced the inexperienced one, that all of its thoughts are its own.

namaste
(11-05-2009, 11:44 PM)gharghur Wrote: [ -> ]My inquiry, if you will, is if anyone is aware of inexperienced individuals subjecting themselves, unknowingly, to STS entities that have gradually convinced the inexperienced one, that all of its thoughts are its own.

Many pyschologists would say this happens all the time, whenever a child, or other person in a less experienced or more limited situation, gets taught, conditioned or brainwashed to feel that beliefs from outside are the truth of the world. This is entirely explainable in 3D, physical life terms. In a way, when we repeat what another person told us or taught us be experience, we're channeling another tangible entity.

This example might be more limited than the metaphysical direction you set for the conversation, but it does seem to me to be relevant.
Hi Q,
Yes, that is an important point.
Commercialism, television, and the new age of "the lie is truth" is the current mode of operation for those in power to keep their power. Brainwashing and subliminal thought control are the terms used nowadays. Still seeking responses, especially from the STS in the group, to the metaphysical side of thought control.
cheers!
Ra mentioned that when one is in a closed system in which STS is dominant, it is impossible to proceed as STO. You can see this happen in kidnapping cases in which the kidnapped child becomes hypnotized by the kidnapper and then may actually grow to "love" him (Stockholm syndrome). Similarly, con artists are excellent at getting people to believe they are freely making their decisions to invest in their schemes. This is why it is so important to keep checking in with oneself to monitor how you feel in the presence of another being.

Usually (in an open system in which you are not trapped with a STS population), even though it might be easy for the STO person to initially become dazzled by the charismatic STS person, eventually, the STO person will begin to feel the discomfort of the control/manipulation. A guilt trip to help other people is an example of this type of manipulation--You know you usually want to help but feel ambivalent or caught. Simply knowing this can free you to step back and decide what you want to do in the situation so that you are not being forced to do something (to "give") against your will.
Hi Marina,
Agree. An STO on a STS planet is a very difficult situation, and it would be difficult to maintain ones sanity. However, it does offer an interesting enviromental test to ones conviction.
The Stockholm syndrome may be an example of breaking ones free will. When one releases their free will to another, they can often justify this to themselves by calling it love. There is also the possibility of a personality split. The oppressed one submits to another personality within, which then takes over and is more comfortable with the oppression. The brain will do whatever it takes to survive.
Yes. This occurs in more aware entities. And "guilt trips" are used by many, even those not necessarily STS.
cheers!
(11-06-2009, 02:12 PM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]This is why it is so important to keep checking in with oneself to monitor how you feel in the presence of another being.

Usually (in an open system in which you are not trapped with a STS population), even though it might be easy for the STO person to initially become dazzled by the charismatic STS person, eventually, the STO person will begin to feel the discomfort of the control/manipulation. A guilt trip to help other people is an example of this type of manipulation--You know you usually want to help but feel ambivalent or caught.

I'm really glad you brought this up, Marina.

Absolutely this is the biggest issue of my life - one that has led to great soul searching, research, discussions, times of deep crying out to God, and ultimately the perspective offered in the L/L Research materials.

Without any memories outside this life, or personal experiences of the paranormal or magical, I nonetheless see myself as most likely a Wanderer with an innate capacity for compassion.

I see that I was put into situations that forced me to realize that an absence of compassion to myself is no way to actually serve or help anyone.

I see that many people have real pain, with utterly unrealistic reasons and obligations they assume about themselves and others as they try to deal with the pain without wisdom or balance. Much to learn here.

In that sense, I've been an unwitting host to concepts, forces, personality shards or whatever you might use to describe an infection from another person's "soul sneezing" without covering their mouth, so to speak!
Hi Q,
We are all on a journey, and all at different levels of awareness.
What you see in others is also part of what/who you are.
Others act as catalysts for you on your journey.
The compassion you feel within yourself should be directed to those who are not yet at the state of awareness.
We are all here to choose and complete the third density cycle.
Then to be a potential catalysts for others on their journey.
The past has brought you into the present.
namaste
Well said, Gharghur!
namaste