Bring4th

I'd give my left nut to be able to change from being an INTJ to a INFJ, but I would guess that that is what was programmed for me for my higher self. Note to self: Kick higher self's ass when off this planet.

Being unfeeling and without compassion for others or myself makes for one cold universe. I'm thankful though that I seem to have love and compassion on the social complex level, just not compassion on a personal level. Why in all creation would one need to not have feelings!?! Perhaps because the rest are not real, but for love?

Are you sure? Are you sure it's possible to not care about others and feel bad about that? To me that sounds like a contradiction. Maybe you're punishing yourself for something the environment tells you... Specifically something some psychologists tell you..

Personality tests like this are not very accurate. I'm trained to do the work, and from this test alone I would not assume you're cold and uncaring.

I mean really... You feel bad about being considered uncaring by a test. Not because of some negative side effect like not getting the high score or losing points for a job. But because it makes the universe cold...

You think someone who honestly is uncaring cares about any of that?

Relax You're fine

Hey, don't worry too much about what type of person others would categorize you as. I don't think the bias towards thinking over feeling implies that you have no compassion, it's more that you tend to favor thinking over feeling as an initial reaction. It might help intensify your emotions to do the meditation technique people around here talk about, of intensifying a feeling, then intensifying the opposite feeling, achieving a healthy balance and new understanding or at least getting those emotions flowing through you.

I think each personality type has its shadow side and its strengths. But I understood how being INTJ-ish might be tricky once I read this: "Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel ... This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals ... Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense."

The good side is: "INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. They have a talent for analyzing and formulating complex theories. They are often acutely aware of their own knowledge and abilities—as well as their limitations and what they don't know - thus develop a strong confidence in their ability and talents, making them natural leaders." I'd give my left.. big toe.. to have those qualities =)

The site I am on has a nice blurb at the end about this stuff... "Carl Jung said: 'every individual is an exception to the rule'. You are a unique individual. The personality types can help you to orient yourself as you find your way around your personality. They also provide a language (a label) that helps you explore your identity. However, personality types are not meant to put you in a box."

Re: Unfeeling
You are not unfeeling; this is simply your first reaction as you process what is happening to you. The feelings of the thinking types is refreshing because it is so genuine. Marie Louise von Franz (famous jungian theorist) said that the weaker functions were our doorways to enlightenment. When you feel something, it can be very profound.

I can't stand it when some organization thinks they can categorize people and then treat them a certain way based entirely upon a stereotype they've created. Each person is completely unique. Each person has a purpose. You can't clump them into a few bunches of letters and believe you know what they need because of this. I try to hold my anger when it comes to things like this, but it still disgusts me. Seeing themselves categorized causes people to automatically assume limitations they might not have had otherwise.

Whatever "letters" you are, you have the complete power within your soul to be happy. You just as you are is a gift. If you want to, there are ways to work on opening the heart and becoming more emotionally aware, but some people are just more solitary and introspective, and this is FINE! If you’re uncomfortable and would like to change, there is no need for shame and the journey should be an enjoyable learning experience. If, on the other hand, you’re comfortable with who you are, you feel that this is where you “fit in”, then there is no need to conform to something society has completely made up. If I had it my way that test and every other one would be flushed down the toilet, but I digress. I don’t want to get worked up over it, and it pains me that it happens to other people as well.

Quote:Are you sure? Are you sure it's possible to not care about others and feel bad about that? To me that sounds like a contradiction. Maybe you're punishing yourself for something the environment tells you... Specifically something some psychologists tell you..

This is not something that someone told me.This is something I know. I used to envy Spock when I was a kid because he had emotions, even if they were weak. I had none. I was in the army eight years and have killed, without emotion and without regret. I have buried comrades without emotion and without regret. I have been fearless all my life. Getting shot at? Whatever... it never bothered me. My brother died in a car accident. I came home and everyone said "You are the rock that holds us together. You are so strong", yet I felt nothing. I simply watched the sun come up and knew it was all part of the natural cycle. It made sense.

Quote:If I had it my way that test and every other one would be flushed down the toilet

And yet this one is me to a T.

Quote:You are not unfeeling; this is simply your first reaction as you process what is happening to you. The feelings of the thinking types is refreshing because it is so genuine. Marie Louise von Franz (famous jungian theorist) said that the weaker functions were our doorways to enlightenment. When you feel something, it can be very profound.

Perhaps this is correct. I began to have weak emotions about five years ago. I can actually feel something when something terrible happens to someone in a movie now, but I always shut it down, even though my intent is to try to experience the emotion. I do wish I could feel compassion for others. I can fake it and look genuine doing so, but it isn't real from within. I have learned how to "show emotions" by watching others do it. I "show emotions" so that I look normal.

Quote:I think each personality type has its shadow side and its strengths. But I understood how being INTJ-ish might be tricky once I read this: "Personal relationships, particularly romantic ones, can be the INTJ's Achilles heel ... This happens in part because many INTJs do not readily grasp the social rituals ... Perhaps the most fundamental problem, however, is that INTJs really want people to make sense."

Oh yes, that is me. Meeting people is so difficult. I just couldn't care to go on a date. A date to me is like pulling teeth, which I actually prefer. I sleep in dental chairs and they have to wake me. I just don't get people. They go about all this fancy talk instead of just saying what they mean...

Quote:The good side is: "INTJs are known as the "Systems Builders" of the types, perhaps in part because they possess the unusual trait combination of imagination and reliability. They have a talent for analyzing and formulating complex theories. They are often acutely aware of their own knowledge and abilities—as well as their limitations and what they don't know - thus develop a strong confidence in their ability and talents, making them natural leaders." I'd give my left.. big toe.. to have those qualities =)

I have risen fast in whatever I have done. There is no satisfaction in it. I quit my last two management positions because it bored me, though I was busy 16 hours a day.

Quote:It might help intensify your emotions to do the meditation technique people around here talk about, of intensifying a feeling, then intensifying the opposite feeling, achieving a healthy balance and new understanding or at least getting those emotions flowing through you.

I will look into that, thanks for the direction.

I had a fellow student at university who also got very angry about the nonsense of this. "We just don't fit under a bell curve". she used to scream out in heated discussions. Hell of a lady, she was in university when she was 69 years old!!! And since the professors were mostly "kids" to her... She often gave them an earful. There were only two different types of professors.. Those that loved her, and those that feared her...

Us real kids were watching the spectacle with open mouths. I helped her with math home work at times (an uphill battle, she'd fulminate about it most of the time), her son was a friend of mine and actually becoming sufi was something we went through together.

By a strange coincidence her name also happens to be Carla.

Quote:This is not something that someone told me.This is something I know. I used to envy Spock when I was a kid because he had emotions, even if they were weak. I had none. I was in the army eight years and have killed, without emotion and without regret. I have buried comrades without emotion and without regret. I have been fearless all my life. Getting shot at? Whatever... it never bothered me. My brother died in a car accident. I came home and everyone said "You are the rock that holds us together. You are so strong", yet I felt nothing. I simply watched the sun come up and knew it was all part of the natural cycle. It made sense.

Peregrinus, don't mistake lack of attachment for lack of care. I don't feel strong emotions when burying people. In stressful situations like fights or one accident with illegal fireworks. (Not mine) I just acted first and worried about not feeling later. This isn't a sign of not caring. It's a sign of being unattached. Unfortunately it is my experience that those events do leave scars. You were the rock, and if no one else was able to do that you were invaluable. It balances out. Don't place shame there, you did what you believed needed to be done.

The personality test measures more the presence of expression of feeling than the presence of the feeling itself. I can imagine from your story that it mistook you for someone who cares very little. That's how you express yourself. But your story also clearly shows the reasons. And they were not egotistical. You were there maybe not emotionally but at that time this is how you cushioned their pain.

Maybe you need to do some work to get in touch with the more emotional you. The kid before he learned to put the emotions away. But I don't think you need to worry about having done the right or wrong thing.

I don't like killing one bit. But I have friends and family in the army. I do understand that it's part of this life. Some people for whatever reason feel the need to go there.

Peregrinus, from my own personal point of view, for what it's worth, I can imagine several approaches you could take.

First, consider what you see as the advantages for those who have a more vivid sense of feeling. For example, you might see this as a way that people can be more compassionate to those who hurt. When you see that someone has those qualities, admire them. You could say, for instance, "I'm glad you're here, Mr./Ms. Feeling, at this time of trouble, because I admire your compassionate quality you bring with your vivid feelings, more than I experience."

Second, consider how you can be of service with your more factual, less emotionally swayed approach than the average person.

For example, if you have any interest in disaster preparedness, you could think things through without being distracted by emotions. If that clutter is not removed from the stairway, it could lead people to not have a clear evacuation path. When people leave in a crisis, they should keep in mind that to see their loved ones again, they might need to leave behind their personal pictures so that they personal selves can escape. Someone who can remain calm when facing these kinds of facts can be of tremendous practical help to everyone else.

In another example, if you like music, you could be a pragmatic and ethical manager with the only dry eye in the house; and therefore, a clear-headed guide to safely get the talent paid and onto the tour bus!

Third, you can meditate and pray, asking your Higher Self to help you experience a healthy balance in this lifetime of feeling and thought, and to help you understand why you have felt imbalanced in this way in this lifetime. Perhaps you already learned the lessons of very deep emotions, and decided to have a change of pace? Perhaps you feel deeper than you realize, and have been trained to disregard the signs of your own emotions? Perhaps you have a greater connection to spiritual truth because your thoughts patterns are so logical? When you quiet your thoughts, what does "the still small voice" have to say?

Remember also that the phrase is service to others, based on helping as asked, not feeling for others. If compassion involves taking action to reduce the hurts of others, perhaps you can do that as well as anyone without having to feel all those hurts yourself. Ra strikes me as pretty much dispassionate throughout the series of books.

I understand your situation very well, being an INTP. I, too, naturally have no knowledge or desire for emotions. That said, I have learned enough about emotions to genuinely feel them. You definitely can feel just as emotional about something as someone else. Everyone has something that they try to overcome in their lifetime, something that needs to be learned. At the same time everyone also has things they excel at and. No one person's circumstances are better than another person's. No one's born with everything all right and aligned perfectly and completely balanced. If we were, there would be nothing to learn from life. The learning experience can be difficult, upsetting, and frustrating at times, but once the learning's complete, we get access to a wealth of exciting wonderful experiences.

The road is bumpy and the skies are gray. But that's just today. Tomorrow, the skies are blue and the destination is reached, and I must say, it is quite a spectacular scene.

The discussion here reminded me of this passage that I enjoy pondering from tLOO:

Quote:Questioner: What is the difference in terms of energy center activation between a person who represses emotional responses to emotionally charged situations and the person who is balanced and, therefore, truly unswayed by emotionally charged situations?

Ra: I am Ra. This query contains an incorrect assumption. To the truly balanced entity no situation would be emotionally charged. With this understood, we may say the following: The repression of emotions depolarizes the entity in so far as it then chooses not to use the catalytic action of the space/time present in a spontaneous manner, thus dimming the energy centers. There is, however, some polarization towards positive if the cause of this repression is consideration for other-selves. The entity which has worked long enough with the catalyst to be able to feel the catalyst but not find it necessary to express reactions is not yet balanced but suffers no depolarization due to the transparency of its experiential continuum. Thus the gradual increase in the ability to observe one’s reaction and to know the self will bring the self ever closer to a true balance. Patience is requested and suggested, for the catalyst is intense upon your plane and its use must be appreciated over a period of consistent learn/teaching.

Questioner: How can a person know when he is unswayed by an emotionally charged situation or if he is repressing the flow of emotions, or if he is in balance and truly unswayed?

Ra: I am Ra. We have spoken to this point. Therefore, we shall briefly iterate that to the balanced entity no situation has an emotional charge but is simply a situation like any other in which the entity may or may not observe an opportunity to be of service. The closer an entity comes to this attitude the closer an entity is to balance. You may note that it is not our recommendation that reactions to catalyst be repressed or suppressed unless such reactions would be a stumbling block not consonant with the Law of One to an other-self. It is far, far better to allow the experience to express itself in order that the entity may then make fuller use of this catalyst.

Questioner Wrote:admire them. You could say, for instance, "I'm glad you're here, Mr./Ms. Feeling, at this time of trouble, because I admire your compassionate quality you bring with your vivid feelings, more than I experience."

I cannot admire. This is a feeling.

Questioner Wrote:Second, consider how you can be of service with your more factual, less emotionally swayed approach than the average person.

This is all I can consider, on an intellectual basis. I understand what brings others happiness and joy, and thus I provide service in such ways as to provide that.

Questioner Wrote:For example, if you have any interest in disaster preparedness, you could think things through without being distracted by emotions. If that clutter is not removed from the stairway, it could lead people to not have a clear evacuation path. When people leave in a crisis, they should keep in mind that to see their loved ones again, they might need to leave behind their personal pictures so that they personal selves can escape. Someone who can remain calm when facing these kinds of facts can be of tremendous practical help to everyone else.

I crushed a vertebrae and had to learn to breath upright and walk again. Therefore there is no work of the physical nature that I am eligible for, even though I made a 100% and full recovery in that the doctors couldn't tell my vertebrae had been crushed a mere six months after the accident.

Questioner Wrote:In another example, if you like music, you could be a pragmatic and ethical manager with the only dry eye in the house; and therefore, a clear-headed guide to safely get the talent paid and onto the tour bus!

Too many of the music industry are of the service to self type for my personal taste, but if you know of anyone looking to hire Mr. Logical, then I am your man lol!

Questioner Wrote:Third, you can meditate and pray, asking your Higher Self to help you experience a healthy balance in this lifetime of feeling and thought, and to help you understand why you have felt imbalanced in this way in this lifetime. Perhaps you already learned the lessons of very deep emotions, and decided to have a change of pace? Perhaps you feel deeper than you realize, and have been trained to disregard the signs of your own emotions? Perhaps you have a greater connection to spiritual truth because your thoughts patterns are so logical? When you quiet your thoughts, what does "the still small voice" have to say?

In meditation, when I get to the gap in thought, it is a blank for me. I go into the state, and then come out of it. There is absolutely nothing in between. I am gone elsewhere, but I know not where. Prayer... I only ask for others. I have all I require, logically, and as thus, ask for naught for myself.

Questioner Wrote:Remember also that the phrase is service to others, based on helping as asked, not feeling for others. If compassion involves taking action to reduce the hurts of others, perhaps you can do that as well as anyone without having to feel all those hurts yourself. Ra strikes me as pretty much dispassionate throughout the series of books.

I can do this, but I just wish I could feel compassion for others suffering. To give an small example. A couple years back, myself and a large group of friends were rafting down a river. On the day, there were many such groups. Another group indicated it was in distress and asked if anyone had medical training, so I swam over and found one of the young ladies had a rather large gash to the bone just below the knee cap. I got her from going into shock, the combination of cold water and the wound, and I stayed with her until evac was able to rescue her. I then swam back to my group. When they asked me what had happened, I said dispassionately "It was nothing. She just had a small boo boo". Well, this apparently reduced the tension everyone felt, because they all laughed at my response, and the day of happiness resumed.

Even when my small daughter cries, I feel no compassion, but do immediately comfort her so that she feels better. Happiness is my goal for her, so I simply act in such fashion as to provide that for her.

(11-11-2009, 01:36 PM)kylissa Wrote: [ -> ]The discussion here reminded me of this passage that I enjoy pondering from the LOO:

Quote: To the truly balanced entity no situation would be emotionally charged.

Though this is true, I know I am weaker in red, orange, and yellow ray. I am currently working on orange according to the Hindu method of balancing chakras. So far, it is working, but rather than an increase emotions, which is what I expected, it appears to be decreasing them further again.

Thanks for that quote. I gather that as so far as I am providing STOSs, all is well. I shall question this no further.

My INTJ friend really responds to music; it seems to bypass the normal processing system. Like you he "casts a cold eye on life, on death" (inscription on Yeats' grave), but music can get past that stance.

One way to do this: Find a safe place, go down on the floor on your back with the heart area open and arms outstretched. If possible slightly arch the back over a pillow or bolster so that the chest is really open and the body is supported. In this position, listen to Pacobel's Canon (not sure of spelling). This will feel like little hands slowly opening up the heart chakra.

Another way (as you mentioned is through film). Film makers know how to help us feel and it is a nice environment-dark, secluded, no other responsibilities.

Art can also do this-a book of Van Gogh paintings can be very moving.
As an INFJ, I also have iN (introverted intuition) as my primary function; this can seem as if I am floating up in space far from earth. Perhaps doing earthy things like tending a garden plant or baking bread might also help get you into the moment and to the feelings that happen in the present moment as you respond to the moment.

It's always an adventure. Good luck!

(11-12-2009, 12:01 AM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]One way to do this: Find a safe place, go down on the floor on your back with the heart area open and arms outstretched. If possible slightly arch the back over a pillow or bolster so that the chest is really open and the body is supported. In this position, listen to Pacobel's Canon (not sure of spelling). This will feel like little hands slowly opening up the heart chakra.

I will try this though I know I am weak in the orange (sacral) already, see below.

(11-12-2009, 12:01 AM)Marina Wrote: [ -> ]Another way (as you mentioned is through film). Film makers know how to help us feel and it is a nice environment-dark, secluded, no other responsibilities.

That lasts for all of about five seconds. I well to tears, and then it subsides before I can shed a tear. The movie Sea Biscuit actually was the first movie I ever actually shed a tear to. I relate to animals better than humans. I find them to be utterly truthful and with less games in their manner. I have learned to listen to them, and, although I dislike the term, can "horse whisper" a horse in no time. Give me the meanest horse you can find, and I can make it gentle and loving and even fall asleep on it's feet standing right in front of me, all in an hour. People are amazed, but to me it is simple. It is logical.

If I understand it correctly, one must have the lower three chakras open in order to have full function of the upper chakras?

I have included, as an attachment, chakra test results. As you see, my orange and green chakras are weak weak weak, which I feel is absolutely accurate. I am currently working on the orange chakra, trying to remove the blockage there. Perhaps I will see if I can get my sister to perform reiki on me and see if that helps.

(11-11-2009, 04:09 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]I cannot admire. This is a feeling.

Very well, you can certainly observe, appreciate, notice, comment upon and consider the value of those who have human qualities you perceive as being manifested more in their life than in yours. You can also share your perceptions and interpretations about these advantages with those people, and with others. All this can honor the diverse ways the Creator's portions can assist one another while living on the 3D Earth.

Quote:I crushed a vertebrae and had to learn to breath upright and walk again. Therefore there is no work of the physical nature that I am eligible for, even though I made a 100% and full recovery in that the doctors couldn't tell my vertebrae had been crushed a mere six months after the accident.

I'm truly sorry to learn of this challenging circumstance in your life. I wish for you all the finest of healing at all levels, and of work and contribution and balancing opportunities, that can possibly come your way.

I went through a very traumatic physical accident myself. Fortunately, I didn't have to relearn as much as you or face as much post-accident repercussion as you. But I can share an opinion with more personal understanding than many people could offer. And my opinion is that the shutoff of feeling perception may be, or may have been, a physiological necessity to prevent overloading your nervous system. Without that, the full awareness of pain, and all its emotional implications, could have been utterly debilitating to further conscious awareness in this lifetime.

It might be a blessing that the absence of joyous highs also saves you from the presence of crushing injury sense to its full extent. In my own case, at some point just before my head hit the rocks at great speed, my memory goes blank, and it doesn't return until some time later. I hope and actually pray that in this lifetime, I never will remember or consciously experience the real feelings of those missing moments.

The ability to have less than full association with physical aspects of feeling could, perhaps, have been a wise, metaphysical, time/space choice each of us made. These choice might have been the best way to prepare us for the accidents that were unavoidable for the evolutionary path and pace we each aspired to experience in this incarnation.

The disaster recovery comment, by the way, was meant to give an example of observation and speech. I had in mind a safety inspector's intellectual service, not of physical rescue service such as a fireman would provide. I apologize if that was unclear.

Quote:Too many of the music industry are of the service to self type for my personal taste, but if you know of anyone looking to hire Mr. Logical, then I am your man lol!

Given the number of "behind the music" stories of people who felt safe with managers who ran off with the money, maybe you'd be a real blessing in that field!

Also given the topic - what exactly happens for you with laughing out loud?

Quote:In meditation, when I get to the gap in thought, it is a blank for me. I go into the state, and then come out of it. There is absolutely nothing in between. I am gone elsewhere, but I know not where. Prayer... I only ask for others. I have all I require, logically, and as thus, ask for naught for myself.

That's interesting. Do you have any recall of dreams?

Quote:I just wish I could feel compassion for others suffering.... (rafting story)

In what way could you have been of more service if you'd had a feeling element of compassion, perhaps distracting you from the pragmatic shock treatment and calmly wry assessment that helped others feel safe?

Quote:Even when my small daughter cries, I feel no compassion, but do immediately comfort her so that she feels better. Happiness is my goal for her, so I simply act in such fashion as to provide that for her.

I believe she'll know that she is loved, and that this world is a place where caring help is available to her. What a wonderful foundation of security she gets to experience! How much more helpful sensitivity to her needs than many parents who might have more vivid mood swings!

Quote:If I understand it correctly, one must have the lower three chakras open in order to have full function of the upper chakras?

Yes, this is the way I understand the Law of One material. The energy inflow which comes up the body becomes unusable if it encounters a blocked chakra. Therefore opening the chakras in sequence from red on up enables the physical portion of the self to integrate this energy for mind and spirit to use. So if the graph is accurate, then orange chakra openness would indeed be the next focus of your evolution.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Very well, you can certainly observe, appreciate, notice, comment upon and consider the value of those who have human qualities you perceive as being manifested more in their life than in yours. You can also share your perceptions and interpretations about these advantages with those people, and with others. All this can honor the diverse ways the Creator's portions can assist one another while living on the 3D Earth.

I can observe, notice, comment upon, and consider the value of human qualities, but it does not make it any more accessible to me... Appreciation is a feeling, lol. I say lol because it is the logical thing to do/say when I find contradiction. Contradiction apparently is humorous, as I use this technique to make people laugh. I also note other reasons, and apply the correct smile or such as required to appear feeling.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]I'm truly sorry to learn of this challenging circumstance in your life. I wish for you all the finest of healing at all levels, and of work and contribution and balancing opportunities, that can possibly come your way.

Please, there is nothing to be sorry about. It happened, and I learned from it. I checked myself out of hospital after seven days, because I felt I could lay around just as well at home as I could in hospital. I only slept four hours a day, and after three months in the wheelchair, rehabilitated myself by moving a few feet at a time, always having to lay down to breath in between. It was not a bad thing to me. It just taught me that I was not invincible, which I had assumed before that. I've had 20+ broken bones and more than more stitches than I care to remember, and I always healed, even from broken bones, in a matter of weeks. I had my right hand literally crushed in a car door during an auto accident, and I was able to use it a week later... seriously, I began to think i was like Chris Lambert in those Highlander movies, except I didn't carry a sword and didn't lop peoples heads off. I fell into a deep fryer one time, my whole right arm went in to just below the elbow. Five days later the skin peeled off and new skin grew back. No scars, nothing...

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]I went through a very traumatic physical accident myself. Fortunately, I didn't have to relearn as much as you or face as much post-accident repercussion as you. But I can share an opinion with more personal understanding than many people could offer. And my opinion is that the shutoff of feeling perception may be, or may have been, a physiological necessity to prevent overloading your nervous system. Without that, the full awareness of pain, and all its emotional implications, could have been utterly debilitating to further conscious awareness in this lifetime.

I've always felt pain was just an illusion, like someone telling you "ok, so now you burned yourself, you must not break the scab so as to let it heal", and never let it bother me. The mind controls the illusion, or so I have thought. Pain was just the bodies way of saying it was repairing itself. That is all I took it as.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]It might be a blessing that the absence of joyous highs also saves you from the presence of crushing injury sense to its full extent. In my own case, at some point just before my head hit the rocks at great speed, my memory goes blank, and it doesn't return until some time later. I hope and actually pray that in this lifetime, I never will remember or consciously experience the real feelings of those missing moments.

I can say I'm sorry to hear that, and I hope you will never have to remember those things as well, but really, I'm not (lack of compassion - I wish I could say that and mean it). I just know it is correct and normal to say things like that, so I say them. Let's pretend that someday I will mean that, and I'm sure I will.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]The ability to have less than full association with physical aspects of feeling could, perhaps, have been a wise, metaphysical, time/space choice each of us made. These choice might have been the best way to prepare us for the accidents that were unavoidable for the evolutionary path and pace we each aspired to experience in this incarnation.

Again, note to self: kick higher self's ass when on metaphysical plane. Send me back to 2D to be a cow chewing my cud. That looks plenty interesting... <--- do you find that funny, or just wierd?

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]The disaster recovery comment, by the way, was meant to give an example of observation and speech. I had in mind a safety inspector's intellectual service, not of physical rescue service such as a fireman would provide. I apologize if that was unclear.

Unclear? What do you mean? You are being unclear...

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Given the number of "behind the music" stories of people who felt safe with managers who ran off with the money, maybe you'd be a real blessing in that field!

I couldn't care less about money, so I am safe to not run off with it, but though I have heard that money talks, the only thing it usually says to me is "good-bye". If it is someone else's, it is safe.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]That's interesting. Do you have any recall of dreams?

Yes, and vivid dreams at that, every night since I have begun to work on my Pineal.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]In what way could you have been of more service if you'd had a feeling element of compassion, perhaps distracting you from the pragmatic shock treatment and calmly wry assessment that helped others feel safe?

Ok I am of service. I have always been of service. Always saved people, always stood up for the smaller guy, always done what i could when I could, but I don't have compassion.... I only do it because it is right, and that is logical to me. In the choice of right or wrong, right has logical benefits, thus right I chose long ago. In all religions being good pays off, thus I simply hedged my bets.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]I believe she'll know that she is loved, and that this world is a place where caring help is available to her. What a wonderful foundation of security she gets to experience! How much more helpful sensitivity to her needs than many parents who might have more vivid mood swings!

In this sense, she is my teacher.I believe she has come to help me with this, for her love is more powerful than any I have encountered. I do love her, but again, I have no compassion for her pains. She is walking now two months and bashes her head on things so often and cries, and I console her, yet feel nothing for her pain. I am a single dad, and she has been with me since almost the day she was born. I lost my home sixth months ago (that's another story, just a thing) and we now live in one room (with bathroom) in a basement. We have closet, play area, crib, my bed, and computer area where I write this all in one bedroom. Not much room at all, but it is filled with all the love I can give her. I have use of the kitchen and living area upstairs.

(11-12-2009, 02:04 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Yes, this is the way I understand the Law of One material. The energy inflow which comes up the body becomes unusable if it encounters a blocked chakra. Therefore opening the chakras in sequence from red on up enables the physical portion of the self to integrate this energy for mind and spirit to use. So if the graph is accurate, then orange chakra openness would indeed be the next focus of your evolution.

It is my focus at current. I believe once I can unblock it, the flood gates will open to my heart, and I will be able to feel compassion once and for all. I can hardly wait to cry at something.

In her I do find joy sometimes. I find myself smiling, and it is strange to me. I just wish I could find compassion. It is funny (not haha), the only thing which the mind cannot do is make the heart work properly. Where's the logic in that?

Wow! this a lot! Don't push yourself to be anything more than you are. Just be.

I've always pushed myself Marina. My work is that of a managerial/ technical senior chemical engineer, teaching those with degrees and masters degrees, and yet I have no degree. I should say, that was my work until I awakened, and now cannot work in that line of work any longer (oil field), due to my conscience in harming Gaia. Always in my life I excel at whatever I choose to. To not do so is illogical. My logic demands a completeness of effort into the chosen direction. I've been poster boy for the saying "Always bite off more than you can chew, and then chew it".

My work life has been one of riches to rags, and I am perfectly ok with it. Finding myself and opening my heart is now my direction of purpose. As long as my little girl has love, attention, wholesome food in her belly, a roof over her head, warmth and her daddy, I require no more.

I always thought a logical mind was enough, and knew the spirit was there, but I disregarded the heart as that of lore. I logically knew the spirit existed simply because it is energy, and energy is understood in physics. Only now I have awakened and understand the mind/spirit/body complex and chakras and balancing and polarities etc etc do I deem it important to find the balance I have long neglected. I now seek to do this, and asking questions of other enlightened ones seems to me to be a logical step in the right direction. Thus I ask here, and the answers I receive are of benefit and help to me. I do thank you all.

You are compassion in action, Peregrinus. In Global Edenism (for an example of what I mean, www.angelicgate.com) I would venture to say your soul ray is that of Green or Yellow. Both are logical, dispassionate types especially when blocked. Green Soul rays make excellent scientists and when blocked they look at everything with dispassion-- I see you opening as you interact with your child. This is a place to begin. Children will make you weep with joy and sadness. You will see as you journey forth as a parent.

Love--
fairyfarmgirl
elizabeth

So I was reading the feeds and stumbled across a free tester for this briggs meyers personality test, no e-mails or accounts needed. Just a simple list of questions a submit button and an answer page with links to further reading.
http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/JTypes2.asp

After the talk here I was curious. I also ended up with INTJ, it's not so bad a profile. At least they're pretty complimentary in the descriptions.

http://typelogic.com/intj.html

We don't fit under the bell curve. These tests do nothing more than draw a very rough sketch. If you know those caricature paintings tourists love to pick up? It's kinda you but there's a whole lot more to be said about a person than can be measured by a test in 70 questions.

On the other hand, we also like to read our horoscope, so don't take it too seriously but do enjoy it...

You can't normalize an infinite range of human personalities in a closed system... it's like trying to fit infinity in a box.

This seems very confused to me.

Go get yourself a human design chart, and then have a reading on that. Or you can run it past me and I can tell you a bit about your chart.

(11-14-2009, 04:56 PM)Phoenix Wrote: [ -> ]This seems very confused to me.

Go get yourself a human design chart, and then have a reading on that. Or you can run it past me and I can tell you a bit about your chart.

Will this suffice? Projector 3 / 5

Hello.

Peregrin, I haven't kept up with this thread and recently noticed it.

I will not doubt your statement about being unfeeling; it is estimated (IIRC) that up to 6% of the population is psycho or sociopathic. If there are this many who don't feel emotion like the rest of us, then it's not surprising that one of them would be found here (trivia: integrity and emotional sensitivity I think are barely related. Even an unfeeling person will pick a direction of up or down, IMO). I'm not comparing you to the evil ones or suggesting you are that kind.

I feel similarly about myself. I only really feel slight discomfort if I go against what I believe to be correct, it is likely that I have stronger emotions than you, however. I also believe that I'm far more sensitive to the subtler forms of emotion; I search for the obscure. Surface emotions don't seem to have much meaning or practicality to me since they're closer to the instinctive part than to the analytical part.

I think "unfeelingness" is actually an enormous advantage if you use it right. I believe that, if you are ascending from a position of unfeelingness, you actually have a great advantage because you will be able to put the lower chakras into alignment without the assumptions and deliria that can come from strong emotions. It seems that many die before getting that done and end up starting a new life being emotionally confused from a young age.

- keantoken

(11-12-2009, 03:04 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]Please, there is nothing to be sorry about.

Well, you sure do seem to have had more than the average person's experience of your body getting banged up and then healing much faster than typical. Also your innate nature seems to be the quality of life that Zeno and the ancient Stoics aspired to reach: free of negative emotions, but also without the happiness part.

Quote:I began to think i was like Chris Lambert in those Highlander movies, except I didn't carry a sword and didn't lop peoples heads off.

Oh good, that should make it much safer if we ever get to meet in person. I'm also not a sword-wielding ancient, as far as I know.

Quote:Unclear? What do you mean? You are being unclear...

Let me see if I can untangle the mess I made of the fire safety comment. I was thinking of a safety inspector, such as a fire marshal, who uses their mind to reduce hazardous situations through observation and recommendations. I was not thinking of physically demanding rescue work such as a fireman's job.

If this still doesn't make sense then we should probably let it go as an unsuitable analogy. Sometimes I get tangled up and trip in layers of verbiage. When this happens and the point is not an essential one, it's often best for me to give up and just discuss something else.

Quote:

Quote:Do you have any recall of dreams?

Yes, and vivid dreams at that, every night since I have begun to work on my Pineal.

May I ask what's involved in that work?

Quote:I only do it because it is right, and that is logical to me.

I'd like to make sure I understand where you are coming from with this explanation. Using your mind, it makes sense to be helpful to other people. Using your mind, you understand that you probably have a spirit and that your spirit also benefits as you are of service.

Using your mind, you realize that other people have a lot to say and express about emotions. But if you have emotions, you can't locate them, other than disappointment, anger and frustration at whatever Higher Self got you into an emotionless life. Since you don't know of having emotions, you can't actually imagine or predict whether those emotions would also feel compassion or would feel something else. There raises a reasonable question: if you could feel emotions, would they relate to your thought processes or have some agenda of their own?

Quote:It is funny (not haha), the only thing which the mind cannot do is make the heart work properly. Where's the logic in that?

They're two different forces. It's like saying that no matter how fast you drive your car around town, that doesn't make your kitchen stove at home run any hotter.

Quote:asking questions of other enlightened ones seems to me to be a logical step in the right direction.

Be aware I aspire to enlightenment but don't think I should be described as an enlighted one. Others here may well be.

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]

Peregrinus Wrote:asking questions of other enlightened ones seems to me to be a logical step in the right direction.

Be aware I aspire to enlightenment but don't think I should be described as an enlighted one. Others here may well be.

You are enlightened inasmuch as anyone sees the Light in you. Perhaps the words "enlightening ones" might have better suited the intended meaning? I'm babbling, but I suspect that to one who is enlightened, all will appear enlightened. One whose light shines freely will finally see that all light shines freely.


I do not know if this is of value to you, Peregrinus, but I looked up the etymology of the word compassion. It comes from a form of the word compani (Greek I think?), meaning "to pity"; com-, meaning "together", and pani, meaning "to suffer". "To suffer together"...

Peregrinus Wrote:Again, note to self: kick higher self's a$$ when on metaphysical plane.

Do you feel anger or frustration about the situation, as this might imply, or this also a "logical" thing to say? Are there any things which might be described as "emotions", which you do feel? And, out of pure curiosity; can you attempt to describe how the feeling of love manifests within you?

A while back I saw an episode of Star Treck in which Data and Spock both noted that the other had posessed by his very nature the qualities that the other had been seeking all of his respective life. Data sought to be more human, and Spock desired to be purely logical, the vulcan ideal.

(11-15-2009, 12:46 AM)Memorandem Wrote: [ -> ]I will not doubt your statement about being unfeeling; it is estimated (IIRC) that up to 6% of the population is psycho or sociopathic. If there are this many who don't feel emotion like the rest of us, then it's not surprising that one of them would be found here (trivia: integrity and emotional sensitivity I think are barely related. Even an unfeeling person will pick a direction of up or down, IMO). I'm not comparing you to the evil ones or suggesting you are that kind.

Sociopath would be the correct term, but that is typically more labeled as antisocial personality disorder nowadays. I have looked into this deeply, and though I fill some criteria, I would not meet many criteria. I am not harmful to others, nor to myself. I do not think only of myself, but greatly of others. These two criteria separate me vastly. I have always known were I to be a monster, I would have been a very bad one. I am thankful to the One Creator I am not.

(11-15-2009, 12:46 AM)Memorandem Wrote: [ -> ]I think "unfeelingness" is actually an enormous advantage if you use it right. I believe that, if you are ascending from a position of unfeelingness, you actually have a great advantage because you will be able to put the lower chakras into alignment without the assumptions and deliria that can come from strong emotions. It seems that many die before getting that done and end up starting a new life being emotionally confused from a young age.

Perhaps this is true, but I have already ascended, being a wanderer, so this is not new to me. I just don't understand how being unfeeling in this incarnation would be of help. Wait... I have had visions of two previous incarnations, and how I died, specifically. In one I was a soldier and died going over the top of the trenches. In the second I was a woman and was strangled to death after having been raped. Perhaps I have been shielded from emotions in this incarnation because the emotions of those deaths would carry through to me... I don't know, just a thought. Balancing the chakras... working on it.

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Well, you sure do seem to have had more than the average person's experience of your body getting banged up and then healing much faster than typical. Also your innate nature seems to be the quality of life that Zeno and the ancient Stoics aspired to reach: free of negative emotions, but also without the happiness part.

I don't know if it was happiness, but I always felt the closest to life when closest to death. Yes, I suppose I am stoic, as per their philosophy... I can understand their philosophies as logical.

To quote Stoic philosophy:

Quote:The universe itself is god and the universal outpouring of its soul; it is this same world's guiding principle, operating in mind and reason, together with the common nature of things and the totality which embraces all existence; then the foreordained might and necessity of the future; then fire and the principle of aether; then those elements whose natural state is one of flux and transition, such as water, earth, and air; then the sun, the moon, the stars; and the universal existence in which all things are contained.

Constantly regard the universe as one living being, having one substance and one soul; and observe how all things have reference to one perception, the perception of this one living being; and how all things act with one movement; and how all things are the cooperating causes of all things that exist; observe too the continuous spinning of the thread and the structure of the web.

The four cardinal virtues of the Stoic philosophy are wisdom (Sophia), courage (Andreia), justice (Dikaiosyne), and temperance (Sophrosyne), a classification derived from the teachings of Plato.

The last I have lived my whole life.

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]I'd like to make sure I understand where you are coming from with this explanation. Using your mind, it makes sense to be helpful to other people. Using your mind, you understand that you probably have a spirit and that your spirit also benefits as you are of service.

I don't probably have a spirit. I have one. This is to me fact, not speculation. Yes I logically chose STOS long ago, before I had heard of the LOO (a month ago). I was able to state all of the LOO principles at 15 years of age. It was logical.

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Using your mind, you realize that other people have a lot to say and express about emotions. But if you have emotions, you can't locate them, other than disappointment, anger and frustration at whatever Higher Self got you into an emotionless life. Since you don't know of having emotions, you can't actually imagine or predict whether those emotions would also feel compassion or would feel something else. There raises a reasonable question: if you could feel emotions, would they relate to your thought processes or have some agenda of their own?

You ask the blind man, who has never seen, what he would imagine something to look like. This is rather impossible.

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]May I ask what's involved in that work? (Pineal)

- I have removed all fluoride from my intake.
- I eat only brown or other non-refined breads.
- I do not ingest sugar, or as minimally as I can. I drink no soda, nor eat candy of any kind.
- I take Sea Kelp supplement daily.
- I take lecithin supplement daily
- I drink the juice from 1/2 lime daily.
- I drink 1 glass of white grapefruit juice daily.
- I have reduced light levels in my room so it is near pitch black when I sleep.
- I look at the sun with my eyes closed for one minute every time I am outside, several times a day if possible.
- I have increased my amount of daily sleep.
- I live each day in love and light, and am increasing my vibrational frequency. In the morning of each day I thank the creator for giving me this opportunity at another day on this earth. It is, as is the creators love, a blessing. I also give thanks many times a day for what I can.

Quote:

(11-15-2009, 02:33 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps the words "enlightening ones" might have better suited the intended meaning?

(11-15-2009, 05:53 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]Be aware I aspire to enlightenment but don't think I should be described as an enlighted one. Others here may well be.

I make a correction. I intended to mean "awakened ones".

(11-15-2009, 05:53 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]I do not know if this is of value to you, Peregrinus, but I looked up the etymology of the word compassion. It comes from a form of the word compani (Greek I think?), meaning "to pity"; com-, meaning "together", and pani, meaning "to suffer". "To suffer together"...

The strange thing is, on a social complex level, I feel compassion. On a personal level do I not. If I walk down the street and see multitudes of people in their personal spaces ignoring the world around them, ignoring others eyes, ignoring those of the street, playing or txting or calling on their cell phones,... oblivious to the beauty around them, it saddens me deeply. I am saddened and pity all of them, but individually, I care not. When a man I knew had his arm broken so that the arm did a right angle and his hand stuck straight out away from the center of his stomach when he held the elbow. My response... "Suck it up buttercup. Crying about it won't help". I wouldn't say such a thing nowadays I know better, but I would think it.

(11-15-2009, 05:53 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]

Peregrinus Wrote:Again, note to self: kick higher self's a$$ when on metaphysical plane.

Do you feel anger or frustration about the situation, as this might imply, or this also a "logical" thing to say? Are there any things which might be described as "emotions", which you do feel? And, out of pure curiosity; can you attempt to describe how the feeling of love manifests within you?

"Kicking higher self's ass", I meant it as a joke. My apology for my incorrect use of humor. Love, to me is ensuring the happiness of others, and giving all I can to ensure that.

(11-15-2009, 05:53 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]A while back I saw an episode of Star Trek in which Data and Spock both noted that the other had possessed by his very nature the qualities that the other had been seeking all of his respective life. Data sought to be more human, and Spock desired to be purely logical, the vulcan ideal.

As I think I previously said in this post, I envied Spock for his emotions, but and I always thought they really overdid them, for someone who was supposed to be more logical than emotional.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence, however, I only seek a balance of that which I am in this incarnate, a spirit having a human experience.

(11-15-2009, 02:56 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]

(11-15-2009, 05:53 AM)sylverone Wrote: [ -> ]

Peregrinus Wrote:Again, note to self: kick higher self's a$$ when on metaphysical plane.

Do you feel anger or frustration about the situation, as this might imply, or this also a "logical" thing to say? Are there any things which might be described as "emotions", which you do feel? And, out of pure curiosity; can you attempt to describe how the feeling of love manifests within you?

"Kicking higher self's a$$", I meant it as a joke. My apology for my incorrect use of humor. Love, to me is ensuring the happiness of others, and giving all I can to ensure that.

It is indeed a funny thing to say; as you said before, "apparently contradiction is humorous". I was trying to determine if the joke contained some degree of honesty as well. It is my experience that in many cases, jokes tend to contain honest feelings or beliefs that have been caricatured. In your case, however, this might not hold true, since I have observed this of emotional people.

Just a joke, I have no intention of kicking my higher selfs anything. As I once was, I am again, about peace, inner and outer. I only strive to have compassion and love for all individuals, not only on a social level.

My latest Chakra test. It appears I am gaining in balancing, though my orange ray is still weak, and how do I throttle back my third eye? I think my head is going to explode from the pressure of it.

(11-19-2009, 01:55 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]my orange ray is still weak, and how do I throttle back my third eye?

The chakras seek their own balance, so as you strengthen orange ray it will help you scale back indigo and vice versa.