I've been looking into the exercise Ra gives in
5.2, offering the steps to mental discipline.
Ra claims that the mind must be opened like a door (the key being silence).
"Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships."
As they go on to explain the different steps to mental discipline, I think I get a bit of an idea what they mean by "geography" and "geometry." Silence may allow us to gaze upon the mind as a map, identifying different aspects of our mind and their relationships. Ra gives the example of internally identifying the polarities of our dimension, such as impatience/patience, both in ourselves and in other-selves.
I suppose that these types of polar relationships are, in part, what Ra was referring to as "geography" and "inner relationships." However, I still don't fully understand what is meant by this.
Ra says the last step of this particular area of learning/teaching "involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind."
Does anyone have any clarification to offer on what is meant by this? What types of ratios are there to be observed? What relationships are to be explored beyond these types of polar expressions (impatience/patience etc.)?
Also, is the "mass mind" the racial/archetypal mind?
... does it have something to do with the intertwined function of the body/mind/spirit complex (30.2)?
Austin - your post made me think of a tool I frequently use to better know myself, to make my to-do list, to "channel" my higher self, to pose and answer questions for myself, or just to make something visual for all the things I'm thinking about at one time. I'm sure you've seen it - called Mind mapping. (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_map). Often, one small point on a map leads to another map and so on and so on.
I realize I'm not answering the questions you pose, but this is what came to mind, so I thought I'd share it.
Interesting questions. I can offer a few thoughts.
The mind is our first stop when trying to understand phenomena. (The energy centers are more the places of real experience, but the mind interprets the narrative, and this aspect should not be underrated because our identity is linked therein.) It's very useful in worldly situations, but limited as things get farther out, if you will. Therefore, it's useful to know when the mind is telling things that are useful and when it is telling you things that are of no value. Additionally, through the steady mind--sometimes whether we like it or not--information can flow into consciousness regarding racial experience and so on into deeper realms.
I find that it's simplest to deal with what's already at hand.
Ra 5.2 Wrote:The disciplines of the mind involve, first of all, identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself, and then balancing each and every positive and negative charge with its equal. The mind contains all things. Therefore, you must discover this completeness within yourself.
To my mind--as it were--what's being said here is that you need consciously to know the tool you're using unconsciously most of the time. "Don't believe everything you think," in other words.
To the extent that you can become objective about the mind stuff, you can begin to see the thing at work and get some perspective on it's structure. "Ratios" and "geography," I expect, are terms used to describe the structure which for most of us is hidden because we are so close to it and dependent upon it. The balancing and other ways of observation and mitigation are tools to help one gain that objectivity. This then may lead to greater sensitivity to other modalities of perception.
One further thought...the completeness mentioned in the passage quoted above can at times be quite hard to take. Don't be surprised if you have an off-again on-again relationship with the process.
This may be more confusing than helpful, but there it is.
Rots o' ruck!
the geometry and geography is the archetypal mind I believe.
the geography comes about through the 22 nodal points.
the geometry is delivered through the inter-relationships between these nodal points.
there are scattered passages of q'uo where they describe the archetypal mind as being rivers of emotion (the undistorted seeking in Ra's terminology.)
q'uo specifically uses the words topology, geography, and geometry when talking about this unconscious or archetypal portion of mind.
the mental training comes about through making these inter-relationships clear to the conscious aware mind. Then these builded structures can be actively invoked to generate a flow of energy through these rivulets.
(11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose that these types of polar relationships are, in part, what Ra was referring to as "geography" and "inner relationships." However, I still don't fully understand what is meant by this.
I read "Inner" as in temporal (interior) vs spatial. In time, things related to each other "resonate". This is how we come to know things through other things which have the same conceptual congruence and why analogies work to reveal information.
(11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]Ra says the last step of this particular area of learning/teaching "involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind."
Does anyone have any clarification to offer on what is meant by this? What types of ratios are there to be observed?
I think this is what you are doing every day anyway, albeit unconsciously. The idea is to become aware of how each resource is informing awareness. "Mind" is a principle. It's also ultimately "one thing" so aspects of it would be shared depending on what needed to be accessed.
(11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]What relationships are to be explored beyond these types of polar expressions (impatience/patience etc.)?
I think the idea is not for the dichotomy to present itself reduced as such, but to provide a means for the acceptance of the unbalanced condition to come to light. Usually you become aware of the feeling or emotion first, then you find the cause of the disturbance by thinking/feeling the disposition.
(11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]Also, is the "mass mind" the racial/archetypal mind?
I think the "mass mind" is anything below the personal.
"identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself" can be difficult.
(11-20-2012, 11:02 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]The idea is to become aware of how each resource is informing awareness. "Mind" is a principle. It's also ultimately "one thing" so aspects of it would be shared depending on what needed to be accessed.
Could you clarify what you mean by "'Mind' is a principle"?
Quote:"identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself" can be difficult.
Would this be difficult because we tend to bury things which we disapprove of within ourselves? Or avoid them through dishonesty?
(11-20-2012, 11:19 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ] (11-20-2012, 11:02 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]The idea is to become aware of how each resource is informing awareness. "Mind" is a principle. It's also ultimately "one thing" so aspects of it would be shared depending on what needed to be accessed.
Could you clarify what you mean by "'Mind' is a principle"?
It's that which sustains and organizes patterns of information. "The identity between the relation of Time and Space and that of mind and body". Consider that in 1D, mind (time) is whole, body (space) is part.
(11-20-2012, 11:19 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:"identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself" can be difficult.
Would this be difficult because we tend to bury things which we disapprove of within ourselves? Or avoid them through dishonesty?
We don't tend to be conscious of many things of which we both approve and disapprove. That's why we need them both to be inflated beyond proportion in order to be recognized. We force others to into convenient roles for this purpose.
Quote: (11-20-2012, 11:19 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:"identifying both those things of which you approve and those things of which you disapprove within yourself" can be difficult.
Would this be difficult because we tend to bury things which we disapprove of within ourselves? Or avoid them through dishonesty?
zenmaster Wrote:We don't tend to be conscious of many things of which we both approve and disapprove. That's why we need them both to be inflated beyond proportion in order to be recognized. We force others to into convenient roles for this purpose.
For many people, acceptance constitutes approval. This distortion is at the root of much confusion.
Approve=like, disapprove=don't like
buddhism is a good place to read about the attraction/avoidance dipole.
the avoidance one, especially, is a hard one to dig out and expose. It's made the more difficult because some avoidances might be hard-coded into our life programming to keep us on a certain path.
Have you ever noticed the golden spiral is in most things? That simple Fibonacci pattern sequence of rabbits breeding produced the curve and ratio by which creation abides.
The inner mind just as the external creation has ratios just like that, that are congruent both in the inner and outer, sadly each inner landscape is unique so offering my own experiences would be less than helpful beyond metaphorical comparison... However I imagine there are overlaps that allow every individual to unify, sort of like puzzle pieces that connect in parts to other pieces.
The Mind: Self, Other Mind: Other-Self, Mass Mind: Collective Self, Infinite Mind: Infinite Self.
Collective Self is essentially Planetary Self, or your part in the Earth-Mind and everyone elses part there.
Infinite-Self is the cosmic-and-beyond self, the self still aware of your true self.
Ratios include the concepts of duality as an example.
You are yin and yang, you have a ratio of good and bad. Tge other self shares this ratio. The mass self shares this ratio, the infinite self shares this ratio, each self has a unique ration, but it is shared, and with enough info to input, relationships could be found in each of those ratios even if they're different.
Like geography, the mind is physically produced by a neural web of electrical information constructed in a way to produce the ability for the mental functions of the creative soul to manifest as Mind, an infinite inner thoughtrealm, both that mind and brain can be mapped. The brain has multi-faceted areas that create an information web that is assessed and crossreferenced with many other information webs each covering their own area of ourpose such as linguistic skills, ocular identification, arithmetic, spatial orientation, balance and equilibrium. Further those areas rely sonetimes on external parts to aid the information processing, eyes to sight, ears to balance, fingers for math for some.
The brain is thus mapped and linked already, we need only notice, such as movement is linked to muscles reactions such as tendons contracting or retracting. There's a relationship akin to geography. One part informs the other part and a reciprocal relationship occurs.
The ratio of such could be said to be metaphorical or conceptual versus always constantly literally mathematical.
Take the mind, let's say in my mind there is a place of darkness that informs my moral self. This mind place has a information web like the brain, but it is here that informs the brain's information web regarding ethics, they share a relationship, there is a ratio, for the darkness that is known the intensity of morality is increased which informs through Mind the physical brain which then reacts accordingly to perceptions of immoral behavior.
Or one can think of enlightenment. As the mind and deeper mind are so informed of the true nature of reality, the body is informed, the brain reacts in specific ways such as kundalini running a circuit of energy along the brain matter associated with feet, legs, pelvis, hips, stomach, diaphragm, chest, shoulders, neck, face which includes mouth, nose, ears, eyes, then head, and along that pathway in the brain is the pleasure center (near area associated with chest) that causes bliss during kundalini electrical current along the physical brain.
This physical result of a seemingly mental or psycho-spiritual inner perception has a ratio that connects the psycho-spiritual to the mental/emotional-physical, linking the brain and mind, a ratio of the Mind of the self for the Body is a creature of the Mind.
This ratio can be found in others with similarities and it's worth noting we all share many more similarities than differences.
My darkness connects to yours and like yours informs you in certain ways, so does mine.
I think of it as mapping the Complex Configurations of the Presently Distorted Complex to discover the most desired Configuration of Self in regards to Others, the Collective (self and all others), and to help is penetrate and become informed of the nature or configuration of the True Self.
Words being unable to clearly portray such things, such realizations may come only through intuition, the leap of faith from intellect to feel.
Do you have tile in your house? How does it's shape align with the rest of the area? House shapes. Doorway shapes, common shapes (circle, square, triangle), and their ratios may synchronistically reflect some manner of the inner. The shape of roads, large buildings, of molecules and particles, the shape of an atom compared to the shape of a sphere, or the shape of a block of stone to the Earth it was cut from (the sphere home of the cube resident).
Tree's grow in spiral ratio to the golden spiral. Further trees are attracted to other tall objects nearby, a tree will grow towards a street light. This is a relationship of the Collective, trees reach for other tall objects for mating purposes, when two branches from different trees interact, breeding is possible if the trees are male and female, yet this occurs in trees near streetlights, that grow into them only to be cut down. They aren't intelligent enough to know the other tall being by it isn't if it's compatibility, it is doing what it is supposed to do, that is a relationship to the infinite mind, just being as is, in a ratio to the mass mind, the planetary mind, the tree mind, and informs us of a plan of sorts.
Just as trees connect roots to become one single being, Human's can connect 'roots' so to speak and work together as one entity or force. Like a team, it is made of many aiming for a similar goal. This is a ratio relationship, many acting in singularity. A relationship of Mind, Other Mind, and Mass Mind in relation to the Infinite Mind.
So it isn't always 1:1, the infinite mind may effect the other three 3:1 or the other three can effect the infinite mind 1:3, or the Self can effect Other Mind and Mass Mind 1:2 and so on.
Ra had trouble with our numbering system, so their referal to mathematical concepts may be more than specifically in an arithmetic way. The relationship of unity isn't very arithmetic beyond All = One or Infinity = Unified Singularity. Number's wise this is a bit hard to write out as an equation for us, and while maybe possible, our mentations and numbering system although informed like all other systems by the creative spark of Creator, may be better viewed alongsude other alien numbering systems in ways of symmetry rather than critical equality, as synonymous rather than the exact same thing produced a different way. A small paradox of disimilarity despite being basically the same thing.
E=mc2 may look entirely different to the exact same expression in an alien equation.
Their ratio and relationship still exist but it's more than mathematical. It's geographical, geometrical, it's metaphysical, metaphorical. Beyond what is seen and known, but intuited and divinely informed.
I hope this helps somehow. Consider the Torus and how the Golden Spiral through a spatial curve (3D curvature instead of 2D spiral curve) produces it.
Is that not a particular relationship and ratio of the Mass Mind with the Infinite?
Now to figure out if Logos belongs to Mass or Infinite Mind. Maybe it can be both, a 2:# ratio.
(11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]I've been looking into the exercise Ra gives in 5.2, offering the steps to mental discipline.
Ra claims that the mind must be opened like a door (the key being silence).
"Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships."
As they go on to explain the different steps to mental discipline, I think I get a bit of an idea what they mean by "geography" and "geometry." Silence may allow us to gaze upon the mind as a map, identifying different aspects of our mind and their relationships. Ra gives the example of internally identifying the polarities of our dimension, such as impatience/patience, both in ourselves and in other-selves.
I suppose that these types of polar relationships are, in part, what Ra was referring to as "geography" and "inner relationships." However, I still don't fully understand what is meant by this.
Ra says the last step of this particular area of learning/teaching "involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind."
Does anyone have any clarification to offer on what is meant by this? What types of ratios are there to be observed? What relationships are to be explored beyond these types of polar expressions (impatience/patience etc.)?
Also, is the "mass mind" the racial/archetypal mind?
I will attempt to share my perspective on this within limits
Starting from love/light and light/love:
Everything vibrates. After the point of awareness there is resonance which creates distortion.
In other words, a logos both calls and is called upon. In this way limitless light is conceived and built upon. Simple enough there are basic light configurations as harmonics, tones and overtones of thought.
To stay within practical knowledge different bodily sensations have resonance patterns with the mind. It is said the mind contains all things. However, he body is the acting focal point allowing movement and often conceptions.
EDIT:
Decided to delete rest
(01-14-2018, 08:41 PM)Cobrien Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]I've been looking into the exercise Ra gives in 5.2, offering the steps to mental discipline.
Ra claims that the mind must be opened like a door (the key being silence).
"Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships."
As they go on to explain the different steps to mental discipline, I think I get a bit of an idea what they mean by "geography" and "geometry." Silence may allow us to gaze upon the mind as a map, identifying different aspects of our mind and their relationships. Ra gives the example of internally identifying the polarities of our dimension, such as impatience/patience, both in ourselves and in other-selves.
I suppose that these types of polar relationships are, in part, what Ra was referring to as "geography" and "inner relationships." However, I still don't fully understand what is meant by this.
Ra says the last step of this particular area of learning/teaching "involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind."
Does anyone have any clarification to offer on what is meant by this? What types of ratios are there to be observed? What relationships are to be explored beyond these types of polar expressions (impatience/patience etc.)?
Also, is the "mass mind" the racial/archetypal mind?
I will attempt to share my perspective on this within limits
Starting from love/light and light/love:
Everything vibrates. After the point of awareness there is resonance which creates distortion.
In other words, a logos both calls and is called upon. In this way limitless light is conceived and built upon. Simple enough there are basic light configurations as harmonics, tones and overtones of thought.
To stay within practical knowledge different bodily sensations have resonance patterns with the mind. It is said the mind contains all things. However, he body is the acting focal point allowing movement and often conceptions.
EDIT:
Decided to delete rest
This has piqued my interest. Can you go into any more detail? Are you visualizing or sensing this geometry in the body?
(01-15-2018, 11:30 PM)Louisabell Wrote: [ -> ] (01-14-2018, 08:41 PM)Cobrien Wrote: [ -> ] (11-19-2012, 11:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]I've been looking into the exercise Ra gives in 5.2, offering the steps to mental discipline.
Ra claims that the mind must be opened like a door (the key being silence).
"Within the door lies an hierarchical construction you may liken unto geography and in some ways geometry, for the hierarchy is quite regular, bearing inner relationships."
As they go on to explain the different steps to mental discipline, I think I get a bit of an idea what they mean by "geography" and "geometry." Silence may allow us to gaze upon the mind as a map, identifying different aspects of our mind and their relationships. Ra gives the example of internally identifying the polarities of our dimension, such as impatience/patience, both in ourselves and in other-selves.
I suppose that these types of polar relationships are, in part, what Ra was referring to as "geography" and "inner relationships." However, I still don't fully understand what is meant by this.
Ra says the last step of this particular area of learning/teaching "involves observing the geographical and geometrical relationships and ratios of the mind, the other mind, the mass mind, and the infinite mind."
Does anyone have any clarification to offer on what is meant by this? What types of ratios are there to be observed? What relationships are to be explored beyond these types of polar expressions (impatience/patience etc.)?
Also, is the "mass mind" the racial/archetypal mind?
I will attempt to share my perspective on this within limits
Starting from love/light and light/love:
Everything vibrates. After the point of awareness there is resonance which creates distortion.
In other words, a logos both calls and is called upon. In this way limitless light is conceived and built upon. Simple enough there are basic light configurations as harmonics, tones and overtones of thought.
To stay within practical knowledge different bodily sensations have resonance patterns with the mind. It is said the mind contains all things. However, he body is the acting focal point allowing movement and often conceptions.
EDIT:
Decided to delete rest
This has piqued my interest. Can you go into any more detail? Are you visualizing or sensing this geometry in the body?
Within some limits yes. After a basic mastery of the mind cycle archetypes there is a recapitulation of body archetypes as a thrust of mind activity. This where shadows approach. The bridge between subjective and objective understanding is broached by shuttling the spirit.
Various disciplines crystallize the shuttling as a map is built.
To answer your second question, depends on the method used.
BYW, these are not my unique ideas.