For those of you who don't know, I live in Orange County, California, but recently quit my job on December 18, 2012. I'm south indian, and there also happened to be a family wedding in Hyderabad, India in the end of December so I've been here since around December 25th and I'm leaving January 29th. My family is very rich in India, and most of us live in a large area of land in one place, not walled off yet, with 10 or so houses, a pool, a large lawn, and a clubhouse area. It's beautiful and the perfect area to retire. Sitting at the clubhouse, it looks like a resort. It's beautiful. However, because this is India with non-existent animal control, and because the land is only half-walled off, many animals come on to the property. It's breathtaking, because we actually get peacocks who come into the area to play and eat. However, on the other hand, we have stray dogs in the area as well. I've probably spent maybe 9 months to a year over the past twelve years on this family land, because I've visited India maybe six times for about two months a piece. I, nor anyone, has ever had a problem with stray dogs attacking or doing anything harmful. However, some of the family considers them an eye sore.
I actually find many of the stray dogs so loving. They are afriad of humans because most of them get shoo'ed or hit with sticks if they hang out where food is being served, but I took the time to pet one and it was so loving, licking my hand, almost purring like a cat. I befriended one just earlier in the month. This is one among maybe 4 adult dogs, along with 4 beautiful puppies.
About 6 hours ago, I notice one adult dog basically passed out on a footpath where we often walk. What was especially unusual is that it did not seem to even try to move as we walked near it. They are usually very fearful of humans and I thought nothing of it. Then 30 minutes later we walked by the same dog; still, it was almost comatose. We have a driver here and he too seemed to notice it and it seemed to affect him.
In the car, my mother tells me that for unknown reasons a beautiful adult peacock was found dead this morning in the lawn right beside the clubhouse, right where we all sit and eat. It was buried right when it was found, but apparently it was very early in the morning and only two family members saw it. The story really seems to move the driver. He slowly told us that he thinks the peacock may have been posioned. He said yesterday the cook asked him for industrial pesticide that he procures for the family for killing plants. He said he gave it to him thinking he would use it on the plants. Then, later yesterday, he followed up with the cook as to where it was going to used and the cook told him that one of my greatuncles gave the order to put large amounts of the pesticide in some raw meat and set it outside so that the dogs may eat it and die. He told them not to do that but did not do anything else since he already had given the pesticide. The driver then went on to say that he thinks that the dog we saw on the footpath probably was poisoned with large amounts of pesticide and although just a drop can kill a tree (when mixed with a gallon of water), he wasn't sure how long it would take to kill a dog and felt bad because he thought the animal was in pain. We asked the driver to double check with the cook to see if he actually put out the poisoned meat yesterday and he confirmed that he did.
I obviously became very upset with this. It's one thing to kill an animal for self-defense or for sustenance, but it's another thing totally to kill an animal because it is an eye sore. And on top of that poisoning an animal with industrial strength pesticide. It's mind boggling to me.
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What've I've done:
- I had my mother call the local vets. Not available till tomorrow morning. But with the language barrier and everything I'm really relying on her to make this happen. Not sure how feasible this is because the dog is no longer on the path (I was in the car when I was told abut this, and when I got back 4 hours later the path was clear) and because the dogs are afraid of humans and the land we live on is huge.
What I want to do:
- I've thought about this, and it's one think to not do anything when tragedy occurs far away, but it's another thing when it happens on your doorstep. And regardless or not if the peacock died due to poisoning, it's so fucking symbolic that one of the majestic birds would die right where everyone would see in the clubhouse lawn the morning after the night the dogs were posioned. I don't know for a fact if any dogs died. I plan to address my family at the next common meal (dinner tonight was not at the clubhouse, so tomorrow morning), and just make it about what my personal philosophy demands without pointing fingers, or passing judgement. I plan on just stating that I found out that someone poisoned the stray dogs and whether or not that actually happened, if I hear about something like that in the future, I could no longer stay on this land and would have to stay elsewhere. Because I feel strongly about animal rights, and my personal philosophy requires that I cannot stay in a place were this occurs. That is all.
What is even more shocking is that:
- my greatuncle apparently told the cook to not tell anyone, and now the cook is denying that it happened and says he didn't . I don't know what my driver will do with the pressure, but he seems like an honest guy.
-my grandmother thinks I'm crazy because it already happened and she told me we live in a world where people are raped and murdered and so I shouldn't care about the dogs and that the best way to live was not to think about those things. I told it's one thing when a tragedy happens on your doorstep, it's another when you read about it in the paper. The said fucking thing is that she talks about God all the time, and that God is love, and here she is basically telling me to close my heart. Oh, and just "pray" for the animal, but don't think about it!
- my father wants me to stay silent when I told something that I had to mention it to the family. He has tried to guilt trip me by saying that the cook and the driver would be fired if the greatuncle found out they talked, even if it was before they were told not to say anything. I don't think it's genuine because my dad could employ them for peanuts (help is cheap in India) and I said we don't know they will be fired and he is in a position to help them. He actually told me that he would refuse to talk to me if I made my statement in front of my greatuncle (I think he is bluffing, and while I think I will accomodate him because I think the family will tell the greatuncle my position regardless, it may be hard to indulge him because the great uncle is always around.) I'm almost not sure how I will react when I physically see my great uncle. Holding my tongue does not seem right just because my great uncle is there, has a great temper, and because he's trying to cover it up. I don't plan to point fingers or even discuss whether it happened, I just want people to know how close to my heart this issue.
It's so fucking sad to think that poor dog I found on the footpath could barely lift it's head because it was poisoned by industrial strength pesticides. What a way to live, what a way to die. My mother said it right, it would be better to shoot them.
How can one expect peace and compassionate in the world when we are blind to it on our doorstep? It's so sad. I have to do something. Unfortunately, there is no animal control and no animal shelters here. So this is more about how to address this with my family. What would you do?
EDIT: Additional Information:
[22:26:25] xise: My great uncle has a life filled with catalyst that he has used to turn bitter
[22:26:37] xise: so I do feel for him as well, it's no surprise that he is like the way he is
[22:26:47] xise: His wife died in her early forties due to cancer
[22:27:00] xise: His investments went poorly so he has to work into his late sixties
[22:27:09] xise: He's a bitter bitter, angry angry man
It feels like I am reading a script from a movie. Such drama, people hiding truth and fear. Honestly I feel angry just reading this but let this be my foolishness.
I would do my most to enlighten the one who sees the other beings as an eye sore. To make them understand what they are doing..
offering death to the starving because they find them offensive for some reason. Once I am able to show them my perspective, hopefully not more is needed.
If not then I would contact any agent authorised by the state to deal with such matters. Animal protection agency if one available or any sort really, as long as they do something within law. I do not know how things are in India. If such a thing is not feasible for what ever reason. Then as long I am there I would keep making the person aware, what they are doing everyday and all others as well who are in on it. Make my best to remove the meat when it is brought outside, maybe keep even watch if possible.
Any of the animals who die I would bring to face to the one's who offered this choice to these starving animals. All who took part in the process. After they have seen the outcome of their offer, I would bury the animal.
I think I would choose a very "thorny" road, but if I feel it is right, then I have do it..
So I am, but this only a fiction I wright, as words can be a mountain, but deeds but a flies. But when one sees a "wrong" then one has to act or feel miserable, so it is with me.
You have the best grasp on the situation and all who are involved. Trust you're judgment and act as you feel is right. Advice on my part.
Love and light
(Edit in
italic)
That's so sad. In my right mind I couldn't imagine doing that.
I don't know what advice to give, except that I'll pray for you.
know that this on some level is chosen by the operator/mind/spirit of the dog. For there are no accidents
Whether it is to be of service to your uncle who has lost his way or this spirit has come to a crossroads and has decided to leave. We can never know. What we can do is accept, and find the resolve to not let the same thing happen again.
Oh dear or dear, what a mess! And what a difficult position you are in! Kudos to you for caring about the animals and for having the courage to speak up, even amid such family pressures and dramas.
Here are my thoughts and suggestions:
You have an opportunity to help the animals. However, confronting the greatuncle and triggering his anger, then leaving, won't help the animals. If you speak up, admonishing the uncle, he will become angry, possibly fire the employees, and cause all sorts of family drama and discord. The employees and their families will suffer by the loss of their jobs. And it will all be for nothing, because if you leave, who is left to protect the animals? No one. The greatuncle will just continue to poison them. So what is accomplished? Nothing. Just a lot of pain and suffering for the employees, but nothing is done about the animals.
So, rather than confront the greatuncle on his thoughtless, cruel action, which would only make matters worse and wouldn't stop the poisoning anyway, because he will just continue after you have left, I suggest a more clever and positive action:
At the next family meal, don't accuse the greatuncle. Don't expose the employees. Don't even tell them that you know the dog and peacock were poisoned. Instead, do this:
Say: "Something is happening to the dogs and peacocks! We found a dead peacock yesterday, and right after that, a very sick dog. I was very worried that the dog was in a lot of pain and suffering! I planned to help him, but later when I returned, he was gone! I can only wonder what sort of pain this poor, helpless creature endured before wandering off into the bushes to die a slow, painful, torturous death! This is horrible, horrible!!! These animals are living beings who feel pain! We are wealthy. We have the power and resources to do something very good, compassionate and noble. Let us build an enclosure for the wild, stray animals. We can keep them confined, so that they no longer wander onto our property. We can build a fence around a large area so they can run and play freely, with a roof over their heads to protect them from the rain, and a warm place to go when it is cold. We can plant flowers around the perimeter to make it attractive. We can get all the stray animals neutered so that don't reproduce. If everyone could just contribute a bit towards their food, I will volunteer to feed them everyday. I gave some attention to a dog and was amazed at how much love this dog offered. Did you know that in the US dogs are considered family members??? Would anyone like to help me in this compassionate effort? Maybe some of us could adopt a dog to live in our homes. That is what they do in the US...the dogs aren't seen as pests, but are honored and loved. Dogs are called by Americans "man's best friend" because they are so devoted. I'm quite sure that we could all learn to enjoy these dogs instead of shooing them away...and maybe even LOVE them! If we get too many dogs, we can advertise and maybe find homes for some of them. I am just 1 person so I cannot do this alone. I need help. Who is willing to help me?"
If they are unwilling to go for the enclosure idea, then suggest that, at the very least, they help you round up the stray dogs, take them to the vet, and get them all neutered. Then leave food and water out for them on a regular basis. At the very least, by getting them neutered, they won't multiply, and will be well fed, and dogs that are well-fed are much friendlier.
By using this approach, there is a chance your greatuncle will feel a pang of remorse over his action, but without losing face. He will be offered a more positive way of dealing with the dog 'problem.' It's very possible that he isn't a cruel person at all, but just didn't know what else to do. We really can't blame him. After all, how is poisoning a dog any different from eating chicken for dinner? Here in the US, most people think nothing of eating cows, pigs and chickens, but are shocked whenever anyone mistreats a dog or cat. This is because dogs and cats are considered 'better' then cows, pigs and chickens, for some reason. But my understanding is that dogs and cats aren't regarded thusly in other countries, and it's common for them to be eaten. I don't know about India, but I know dogs are commonly eaten in China. From your description, it sounds like dogs aren't considered pets in India, as they are in the US. So, if your family eats meat, and dogs aren't honored in India as they are here, then it makes sense that they would think it's ok to poison them!
Therefore, I suggest choosing an approach that enlightens them, rather than condemns them. Offer to them a solution that is good for everyone, which will have the added benefit of opening their eyes and hearts to seeing these dogs as entities deserving of love and capable of returning that love.
Teach them by example. Adopt a couple of the dogs yourself. Become friends with them. You will be amazed at how wonderful dogs are! Bring the dogs (on a leash) with you to family gatherings, and introduce your new companions to your family. Let them see that these are entities with personalities, and lots of love!
This way, they will realize on their own that dogs aren't just nuisances.
Again, I commend you for having compassion, and for having the courage to stand up for those who cannot speak for themselves. Please let us know how it all works out!
Monica, that is very wise.
What sucks is that the uncle is doing what he understands. As a creation of society he does not understand the ramifications of his actions, and how he could be laying out the groundwork for his next experience.
Exactly Pickle!
When I was very open vibrationally, I could make things happen just by focus of will.
The only time I did that intentionally was when I realized that had the reality gone another way,
I would have been seriously unbalanced, and it was up to me to correct the imbalance.
There may be a court date coming up for me, but I am not sure, and I am doing my best to remain impartial,
rather than trying to shift the outcome in my favor. Who knows, there might not even be a court appearance.
I don't hold expectation either way. What happens happens in order to maintain balance. What I desire, if you can call it that, is to be fair and impartial. I became out of my mind because my desire (to be a cartoon character) could not manifest here in 3D.
There is something to a level of awareness when you realize you are Creator inside, and can make miracles happen.
There is also a responsibility to that. If I were to force something in my favor, who knows what would ripple back to me,
it would be spiral that slowly got stronger in a direction that I would not like.
Thank gosh we are in an increasingly positive density. It makes choices more obvious.
After some prayer for the animals, and as well as about a day and a half of sleeping on, I've decided to do the following:
If the general subject of animals, or vegetarianism is brought up, I will mention it. But I am not going to bring it up or go out of my way to talk about what happened or my feelings on it. Mind you, only 3-4 people in this family compound of 20 know about it.
The reason I am taking this action is several fold:
(1) Interestingly, the night I was planning on revealing this information to the larger family (10-15 members), we did not have family dinner. Also, due to random circumstances, the next day we did not have any family meals at the clubhouse at all the next day as well. This morning I went to the clubhouse for breakfast and it was just me and my mother. This has never happened since I've been here since December 25, 2012 - we always have meals together. I suppose this is a sort of message/interesting coincidence.
(2) My driver, on his own, told me that he is not going to give any more pesticide to the cook. He also told me that he went off on the cook for basically lying to him initially about why he wanted the pesticide, and about doing such a thing to the animals. I also feel comfortable in the fact that since I've been here, the driver has really been interested in my spiritual philosophy, and has integrated foreign (to many Indians) concepts such as the idea that love is given freely, not just to those who deserve it. For example, he asked me why I gave beggars money who could clearly work. I asked him why he gives his friends gifts. He said basically he likes them. I told them that was the reason I give all beggars money, as long as they are not clearly going to use it to hurt others. I also told him that I don't think God (I like using the word universe, but I'm not sure he would have understood) loves some people less or more than others, so why should we. He really seemed to think about this.
(3) The firing of the driver and cook are real dangers. And to someone who is willing to cover things up, I don't know if me revealing the poisoning would do anything other than get those people fired, because after all I'm leaving on January 29th for probably a couple years till the next visit. I figure leaving people with a big heart like my driver in positions where they can stop plans in motion may be better than appealing to a family where the person with the most anger wins (my family is known for their tempers. Yes, many have died to cancer at an early age).
I'm not sure this is the best decision, and I may just go off when I see my great uncle, I don't know. And I definitely don't like to be a passive person. But I think the fact that the driver has compassion, and the balls to at least talk to other people employed at his level about right and wrong, makes me feel a lot more comfortable.
(01-20-2013, 01:34 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]After some prayer for the animals, and as well as about a day and a half of sleeping on, I've decided to do the following:
If the general subject of animals, or vegetarianism is brought up, I will mention it. But I am not going to bring it up or go out of my way to talk about what happened or my feelings on it. Mind you, only 3-4 people in this family compound of 20 know about it.
The reason I am taking this action is several fold:
(1) Interestingly, the night I was planning on revealing this information to the larger family (10-15 members), we did not have family dinner. Also, due to random circumstances, the next day we did not have any family meals at the clubhouse at all the next day as well. This morning I went to the clubhouse for breakfast and it was just me and my mother. This has never happened since I've been here since December 25, 2012 - we always have meals together. I suppose this is a sort of message/interesting coincidence.
(2) My driver, on his own, told me that he is not going to give any more pesticide to the cook. He also told me that he went off on the cook for basically lying to him initially about why he wanted the pesticide, and about doing such a thing to the animals. I also feel comfortable in the fact that since I've been here, the driver has really been interested in my spiritual philosophy, and has integrated foreign (to many Indians) concepts such as the idea that love is given freely, not just to those who deserve it. For example, he asked me why I gave beggars money who could clearly work. I asked him why he gives his friends gifts. He said basically he likes them. I told them that was the reason I give all beggars money, as long as they are not clearly going to use it to hurt others. I also told him that I don't think God (I like using the word universe, but I'm not sure he would have understood) loves some people less or more than others, so why should we. He really seemed to think about this.
(3) The firing of the driver and cook are real dangers. And to someone who is willing to cover things up, I don't know if me revealing the poisoning would do anything other than get those people fired, because after all I'm leaving on January 29th for probably a couple years till the next visit. I figure leaving people with a big heart like my driver in positions where they can stop plans in motion may be better than appealing to a family where the person with the most anger wins (my family is known for their tempers. Yes, many have died to cancer at an early age).
I'm not sure this is the best decision, and I may just go off when I see my great uncle, I don't know. And I definitely don't like to be a passive person. But I think the fact that the driver has compassion, and the balls to at least talk to other people employed at his level about right and wrong, makes me feel a lot more comfortable.
I like your words. Have you seen the movie The Intouchables?
Much of what you describe is in this very touching and funny french film.
I wish you luck! Do you're best to follow what you're heart tells you .)
xise, that's a tough issue my friend.
I've been going through some catalyst regarding honesty lately, so that's the perspective I see this situation though, and it puts me at a sort of conundrum.
From what I can understand, for us to be honest would be for us to share, without any distortion and with complete truth, how we feel with the people involved with this. If we are having the experience, especially if it is such extreme catalyst for us, it is part of our being. I believe that sharing this being completely and honestly is what is required for complete blue ray activation (very difficult for us right now). The challenge then becomes to distill love and light from the reality created by the complete radiance of your own being.
But what about if there is risk of creating catalyst for others through this sharing, like in your situation? If you were to be completely honest with all parties involved in your experience here, this could cause difficulty in the life of others.
Is there ever a point where we are to distort the truth (light) in order to effect what we personally consider an appropriate change within the world, imposing our own ideals onto others? Is the reward of possibly bringing about positive change with our honesty worth the risk of harming others in our wake?
I would personally suggest that if you were to be open with all parties about how you feel, I would not be dishonest about the circumstances which brought you to your current mental state which you are attempting to share. Perhaps it is best to wait to attempt to communicate your being until you feel you have processed the catalyst and distill what you feel is compassion in the situation. This honest attempt at compassion is apparently an ongoing task. These types of situations are only steps towards the ultimate lesson.
Quote:To the student of the balancing process we may suggest that the most stringent honesty be applied. As compassion is perceived it is suggested that, in balancing, this perception be analyzed. It may take many, many essays into compassion before true universal love is the product of the attempted opening and crystallization of this all-important springboard energy center. Thus the student may discover many other components to what may seem to be all-embracing love. Each of these components may be balanced and accepted as part of the self and as transitional material as the entity’s seat of learn/teaching moves ever more fairly into the green ray.
After continuing to think about this issue and reading all the posts in here, I'm going to have to think more about how to
(1) react with love to all involved (the animals, the cook and the driver, and the great uncle,)
(2) while protecting the innocents (the animals, but also the cook and driver - the lesson I distilled when Ra states to feed those starving I believe is that while we react and feel love for all those involved, we still manifest a reality where things are set "right"),
(3) while also being true to my own blue ray.
It's a hard balancing act. I'll have to think about it some more.
I'm not sure how to trust my blue ray. For awhile, it seemed like it was feeding me negative wisdom, and I kept trying to forcefully broadcast my blueray out, instead of being in balance. I'm glad I couldn't do any serious damage to others while I was acting out of mind.
(01-21-2013, 10:09 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]After continuing to think about this issue and reading all the posts in here, I'm going to have to think more about how to
(1) react with love to all involved (the animals, the cook and the driver, and the great uncle,)
(2) while protecting the innocents (the animals, but also the cook and driver - the lesson I distilled when Ra states to feed those starving I believe is that while we react and feel love for all those involved, we still manifest a reality where things are set "right"),
(3) while also being true to my own blue ray.
It's a hard balancing act. I'll have to think about it some more.
That is indeed a delicate balancing act!
Suggestion: Consider that they don't need to be balanced with equal weight. In my opinion, #1 and #2 should carry a lot more weight than #3. Protecting the employees and the animals are both serving others, whereas being concerned about one's blue ray is focusing on self.
The criteria for graduation to 4D STO is 51% STO; thus it would seem that serving others might carry more weight in situations like this, than being concerned for self's own balancing of rays.
Since we are veiled, none of us really enjoys full blue ray expression anyway. Because of social considerations, we must be polite in public, etc. Only with our loved ones do we fully express ourselves, in full blue ray honesty.
I'm not suggesting that you lie. I'm suggesting that you creatively find a way to honor #1 and #2 - protect the employees and animals - with total honesty being secondary.
There is surely a way to accomplish the objectives of #1 and #2 without blatantly lying, but it might entail being discreet as to what you say. I don't think it's wrong to withhold some of what you know. It might in fact be an act of wisdom and compassion to refrain from spilling the beans, in order to protect those people who spoke up.
It might be a far greater transgression to knowingly let the cook and driver get fired, than to tact and discretion about what you say.
Were I in your shoes, no way would I tell the greatuncle that the cook and driver ratted him out. I would protect them.
Consider:
Quote:25.6 Questioner: Could you amplify the meaning of when the— what you said by “failure to accept that which is given?”
Ra: I am Ra. At the level of time/space at which this takes place in the form of what you may call thought-war, the most accepting and loving energy would be to so love those who wished to manipulate that those entities were surrounded, engulfed, and transformed by positive energies.
This, however, being a battle of equals, the Confederation is aware that it cannot, on equal footing, allow itself to be manipulated in order to remain purely positive, for then though pure it would not be of any consequence, having been placed by the so-called powers of darkness under the heel, as you may say.
It is thus that those who deal with this thought-war must be defensive rather than accepting in order to preserve their usefulness in service to others. Thusly, they cannot accept fully what the Orion Confederation wishes to give, that being enslavement. Thusly, some polarity is lost due to this friction and both sides, if you will, must then regroup.
It has not been fruitful for either side. The only consequence which has been helpful is a balancing of the energies available to this planet so that these energies have less necessity to be balanced in this space/time, thus lessening the chances of planetary annihilation.
Even the Confederation sometimes chooses to accept a loss in polarity, in order to accomplish their greater objective.
So even if you did lose some polarity by not being 100% honest, your greater objective of serving the cook, driver and animals would be met.
Another quote that seems to back up my premise that sometimes it's acceptable to accept a slight loss in polarity in order to serve the greater good:
Quote:10.14 Questioner: For general development [of the] reader of this book, could you state some of the practices or exercises to perform to produce an acceleration toward the Law of One?
Ra: I am Ra.
Exercise One. This is the most nearly centered and usable within your illusion complex. The moment contains love. That is the lesson/goal of this illusion or density. The exercise is to consciously seek that love in awareness and understanding distortions. The first attempt is the cornerstone. Upon this choosing rests the remainder of the life-experience of an entity. The second seeking of love within the moment begins the addition. The third seeking powers the second, the fourth powering or doubling the third. As with the previous type of empowerment, there will be some loss of power due to flaws within the seeking in the distortion of insincerity. However, the conscious statement of self to self of the desire to seek love is so central an act of will that, as before, the loss of power due to this friction is inconsequential.
Exercise Two. The universe is one being. When a mind/body/spirit complex views another mind/body/spirit complex, see the Creator. This is an helpful exercise.
Exercise Three. Gaze within a mirror. See the Creator.
Exercise Four. Gaze at the creation which lies about the mind/body/spirit complex of each entity. See the Creator.
The foundation or prerequisite of these exercises is a predilection towards what may be called meditation, contemplation, or prayer. With this attitude, these exercises can be processed. Without it, the data will not sink down into the roots of the tree of mind, thus enabling and ennobling the body and touching the spirit.
And another:
Quote:53.3 Questioner: Thank you. During my trip to Laramie certain things became apparent to me with respect to dissemination of the first book of the Law of One to those who have had experiences with UFOs and other Wanderers, and I will have to ask some questions now that I may have to include in Book One to eliminate a misunderstanding that I am perceiving as a possibility in Book One. Therefore, these questions, although for the most part transient, are aimed at eliminating certain distortions with respect to the understanding of the material in Book One. I hope that I am using the correct approach here. You may not be able to answer some of them, but that’s all right. We’ll just go on to others then if you can’t answer the ones I ask.
First I will ask if you could tell me the affiliation of the entities who contacted Betty Andreasson.
Ra: I am Ra. This query is marginal. We will make the concession towards information with some loss of polarity due to free will being abridged. We request that questions of this nature be kept to a minimum.
Last night, as my mother and I walked the footpath to the clubhouse, there was an overpowering stench of decomposition. It was dark, so we saw nothing.
This morning, my mother tells me that early in the morning the stench was even stronger so she had a clubhouse servant search the area. Two dead adult dogs were found in the brush. Their bodies were bloated. The servant tried to pick the bodies up to throw them into the trash but was surprised when he couldn't because they were too heavy. He ended up spending an hour to dig graves where the dogs died and buried them here on the compound.
I used to see my friend, a blonde stray dog almost daily few weeks. I haven't seen him for the last week. The puppies thankfully are alive, but they seem all alone. There is one adult dog left, I'm not sure if it is their mother but I pray it is because as of last week they were still nursing.
Sadness
.
well, I guess your leaving for the States pretty soon xise; so the opportunity for action will pass; but the opportunity for reflection and consideration will stay with you.
perhaps this might create a bias towards more animal rights in your own country; who knows what knock-on effects experiences have.
- -
I related my own experience with travelling to a third world country at the time (Malaysia) and witnessing a 'house servant' who was in her 40's or 50's, prematurely aged, who never left the compound. She got food (not what everyone else ate) and a tiny cupboard to sleep in.
to a westerner, the first seeing of this lead to the thought: "this is an outrage, she needs to be freed!"; and I spoke to my friend who had invited me there for the stay (and surprisingly enough, it was his uncle's house, a former government minister who still had a paid driver and car from the state).
my friend said to me; that's just the way it is, if she didn't work here, she would just beg on the street and die.
it sounded callous, but as I saw more of Kuala Lumpur (this was mid 1990's) the words sounded true enough. There was abject poverty; in the truest sense of the word.
what could I do? could I save her? could I save them all?
this one incident (an ongoing witnessing over weeks) truly kickstarted and spurred me onto my spiritual journey; the asking of questions, the understanding of karma, the collective responsibility we have on this planet. how to act? to change a society? how to be? and how to be most effective with one's skillset and abilities?
I haven't been back to KL since; but things have radically transformed via telecommuncations and outsourcing. My workplace actually has quite a sizeable office over there; and the work that is done there is integral to the ability to do the work in our local Sydney branch. We really are equal partners in this operation (their office and ours).
so times do change; attitudes do change; opportunities arise; the spread of information and understandings works its effects. We are a global peoples at this time; attitudes like what your great-uncle might have had become exposed to a wider audience. People talk about things. Make assessments on what is 'acceptable' or 'not acceptable'; and we move forward.
from the perspective of a single slice of time, it might not appear all too hopeful. But from a wider-arc lens, progress happens.
this careful patience with regards to change in myself, in others, in society as a whole is something I've learnt over the years. After much burnout and excessive effort I must say
peace xise; thanks for sharing this total experience with us; I remember chatting a bit with you and Cyan when you first posted the thread.
peace.
(01-22-2013, 05:54 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]I used to see my friend, a blonde stray dog almost daily few weeks. I haven't seen him for the last week. The puppies thankfully are alive, but they seem all alone. There is one adult dog left, I'm not sure if it is their mother but I pray it is because as of last week they were still nursing.
Sadness .
Is anyone feeding the puppies? If they are too small to eat on their own, they can be bottle-fed. Any raw milk would do.
This is a perfect opportunity to trigger some compassion in your family! Enlist their help in caring for the puppies. Name the puppies and, as they get older, those taking care of them will notice their personalities. Get a commitment from someone that they will get the puppies neutered. That can be done at just a few months old, even when they're still puppies. (Some vets even do it at a very young age.)
The puppies would become part of the community and that could change how your family views dogs in general and have lasting effects.
It seems to me that you've been given a perfect solution!
Neuter.. that's just wrong, what ever the age of the being it is >>forced<< on.
We created this wrong (too many dogs loose) and neuter is an even greater wrong. Why build the bad karma. Fix? That's how they call it. What does it fix, the being its performed on? Insanity.. how can this be "normal"!?
It's service to self, its the easy way to "fix" our mistakes for our comfort. "Look all is well we have neutered the being that was causing us trouble, oh happy jolly day.."
They can not choose so we choose for them? Does that make it acceptable, taking away the ability to make offspring, because it now inconveniences us? I will not accept that.
I am sorry for being off topic but the topic neuter has been one sided here. It's portrayed in the lights of "good". I am dumbfounded how it is so, but now my view on it has been shared. I feel no need to further explain why I see it as so.
I do not want to derail the thread further either.
EDIT I start:
(01-27-2013, 02:41 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]However, until that larger problem is solved, neutering cats and dogs is the lesser of the evils; necessary to avoid further suffering and starvation and/or euthanization.
Why do a thing which you consider "evil" your self at all? Even if its lesser, if you know its evil you stop or you are part of the problem. Can you not see a way that is not evil and actually fixes the wrong? I am sure you can, but it probably seems too hard and.. its just easier to sterilize the beings. How can the larger issue be fixed when we focus on its fallout by doing lesser evil?
What happened to living by example.. when will we stop doing the lesser evils and do what is right for once!? If you think/feel its wrong.. STOP and do what you think/feel is right. Its a choice.
This is my truth.
Thank you for the response Monica! Also for the "Cats and Kittens" thread link, I read through it.
EDIT II start:
(01-27-2013, 04:04 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Please tell us what the solution is, then.
Do what you feel is right.
This is the best advice I can give as everybody is different and as are their circumstances. In my views of life, doing what feels right is what one must do. I will not carry the weight of the right answer for all. I know it not, but I know it is available in this case and known. Cause when the need is little the truth is buried under illusions/lies. In the light of the Law of One though I am sure it entails no freewill being breached, one could ponder on that.
We are all brothers and sisters
I think I know what you mean by "same team". But for clarity, I walk the path what I feel as truth. If we meet on it, I am glad
My view on this subject is that the problem has solved itself.
A lesson here is that your stressing out about the situation did very little for you in the end. Your plans of confrontation and outing were not manifested in reality. Instead, your higher intention became reality likely providing a better resolution than you could have planned for all involved.
Trust in God. Have the highest intentions and act when you feel you have been provided an appropriate avenue in which to act. (it will come if you desire it)
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]Neuter.. that's just wrong, what ever the age of the being it is >>forced<< on.
We created this wrong (too many dogs loose) and neuter is an even greater wrong. Why build the bad karma. Fix? That's how they call it. What does it fix, the being its performed on? Insanity.. how can this be "normal"!?
It's service to self, its the easy way to "fix" our mistakes for our comfort. "Look all is well we have neutered the being that was causing us trouble, oh happy jolly day.."
They can not choose so we choose for them? Does that make it acceptable, taking away the ability to make offspring, because it now inconveniences us? I will not accept that.
I am sorry for being off topic but the topic neuter has been one sided here. It's portrayed in the lights of "good". I am dumbfounded how it is so, but now my view on it has been shared. I feel no need to further explain why I see it as so.
I do not want to derail the thread further either.
I agree that humans created the overpopulation problem, and neutering dogs and cats, as with hunters 'thinning the herd' of starving deer, is but a band-aid on a much larger problem.
However, until that larger problem is solved, neutering cats and dogs is the lesser of the evils; necessary to avoid further suffering and starvation and/or euthanization.
Ask any dog or cat which he would prefer: to be neutered and well-fed, or roaming the streets starving, driven to continuous fighting by irrepressible hormones, culminating in getting captured and then cruelly, painfully, terrifyingly gassed. (Gassing in city pounds is NOT instant nor painless. It's agonizing and terrifying.)
S/he will pick the neutering every time.
Approximately
3-4 million dogs and cats are horrifyingly euthanized each year in the US alone.
These figures lump euthanization by injection (which is more humane) and
gassing (which is horribly cruel) together. The reality is that many city pounds and animal 'shelters' (sic) still use
gassing.
The reality of gassing that goes on every day.
Quote:Just one unaltered female dog and her offspring can produce 67,000 puppies in only six years. In seven years, one female cat and her offspring can produce an incredible 370,000 kittens!
That's a lot of
suffering animals.
http://www.peta.org/issues/companion-ani...euter.aspx
I daresay that the dogs we've been discussing, who then ended up poisoned, dead and bloated, would have much preferred getting neutered and fed. (And again, poisoning by pesticides isn't a pretty death: those dogs may have suffered for hours before succumbing.)
I respect that you don't want to further discuss this side-topic here. But if you'd like to further explore it, here is another thread on that topic:
Bring4th Forums One > Olio > Cats and Kittens
(01-27-2013, 02:03 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]My view on this subject is that the problem has solved itself.
Solved? How was anything solved? More dogs were killed, and now there are motherless puppies, apparently starving to death, if they're not dead already.
(01-27-2013, 02:03 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]A lesson here is that your stressing out about the situation did very little for you in the end.
"You" ? I thought it was about helping the dogs, not about helping self.
This subject is really hard on me.
I think I'm taking it harder than I used to.
I have faced death of one dog in the past,
and nearly faced death of the one I hold most dear.
My mom had my dog neutered, just so that
she could handle him better. Because he had growled
at her in the past. I don't hold it against her,
and I probably would have neutered him as well,
so that he would be better behaved around her.
(01-27-2013, 02:41 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ] (01-27-2013, 02:03 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]My view on this subject is that the problem has solved itself.
Solved? How was anything solved? More dogs were killed, and now there are motherless puppies, apparently starving to death, if they're not dead already.
(01-27-2013, 02:03 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]A lesson here is that your stressing out about the situation did very little for you in the end.
"You" ? I thought it was about helping the dogs, not about helping self.
You can only control reality through yourself. If you don't allow reality to teach you about yourself then you limit the extent to which you allow yourself to grow.
Your attachment to an outcome negatively influences your ability to bring forth your positive intention regarding any situation.
If you deny the positive of the negative, then you are left with only the negative and are going to progress slowly.
Myself, I attempt to let go of the negative, and look for the positive. It works well for me.
This thread is very difficult to read. The subject matter is one of the reasons I am reclusive.
What to do . . . or not do, about such things?
I am not advanced enough to stand by and do nothing. I frankly don't care a bit about humans and their ignorance. The thoughtless pain and suffering humans cause on a regular basis is appalling. I am not talking about subtle emotions or the kinds of pain caused from a person's own unresolved pain. I am referring to the content of this thread: causing direct pain and suffering to innocent creatures, as you put it yourself xise.
My heart goes out to you and your untenable position. I have been in such positions all my life. I can tell you this: If you stand up for what you believe, you may not change a thing at all right now. But I promise you, it will make a difference. I know, because I have seen how my family and friends--even clients I have had (I was a very successful food illustrator and at one point told my clients I was not going to illustrate meat any more), come to understand and respect my views and heartfelt ideas. Sometimes it takes years, decades; but they know in their hearts what you are trying to make them see is true. They know what kind of person you are. They may not be ready to make the changes yet, themselves. But you will plant seeds by speaking your truth. I can assure you, this is true. And the animals will also be grateful. I know this because a few have come to me in dreams to thank me.
So speak your truth, as authentically and kindly as you can, but let your heart be open so the passion comes through and it will touch your family's hearts. Don't expect change . . . as that can't be controlled. And help or save what animals you can on your family's property without pointing the finger in the most proactive way you can.
Someone in this thread said the animals chose this. I have a hard time believing this when they aren't even individuated yet (perhaps there is some "herd-like" choice when incarnating into 2D from 1D). But individuated humans do choose, so the issues of the cook and driver take a back seat for me over the taking of life--cruelly--of innocent animals, who, by the way, are part of the property "trust." All things within the property are under the care of the landowner.
<3
(01-27-2013, 03:34 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]You can only control reality through yourself.
If that were true, then no one could ever affect anyone else. For example, the heroes who saved victims of the holocaust, the heroes who fought to end slavery, etc.
We are all interacting, right now, and affecting one another.
(01-27-2013, 03:34 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't allow reality to teach you about yourself then you limit the extent to which you allow yourself to grow.
Again, you seem to be focused on self. The whole point of the STO path is to be at least 51% more focused on other-self.
No one said anything about not growing or allowing oneself to learn. Of course we learn and grow. But that doesn't negate serving others. On the contrary, serving others is the primary point of the STO path. It's even called
Service to Others.
(01-27-2013, 03:34 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]Your attachment to an outcome negatively influences your ability to bring forth your positive intention regarding any situation.
I agree, which is why I advocate action without attachment to outcome.
However, many seem to think
non-attachment to outcome =
no action at all.
(01-27-2013, 03:34 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]If you deny the positive of the negative, then you are left with only the negative and are going to progress slowly.
Myself, I attempt to let go of the negative, and look for the positive. It works well for me.
Looking for the positive is wonderful, but not if it is used as a justification to avoid appropriate action.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]EDIT start:
(01-27-2013, 02:41 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]However, until that larger problem is solved, neutering cats and dogs is the lesser of the evils; necessary to avoid further suffering and starvation and/or euthanization.
Why do a thing which you consider "evil" your self at all? Even if its lesser, if you know its evil you stop or you are part of the problem.
Lol, you sound like me when I talk about politics!
In principle, I agree with you. I refused to vote for either 'evil' party this past election.
But, the sad fact is that, for the time being, we're in this reality, and the reality is that if we don't get our dogs and cats neutered, they will multiply and add to the problem.
The prime directive, in my view, is to reduce suffering. That trumps any philosophical argument about the lesser of evils still being evil.
This entire illusion could be said to be 'evil.' Yet we still have to live in it, and make decisions as best we can.
It's not always practical to be a purist. Sometimes being a purist causes more of the very 'evil' we are trying to transform.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]Can you not see a way that is not evil and actually fixes the wrong?
Nope. If you think of one, please do let me know! Even millionaires eventually run out of food and space, trying to take care of unneutered dogs and cats who are multiplying exponentially.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]I am sure you can, but it probably seems too hard and.. its just easier to sterilize the beings.
That's where you're wrong. Most animal activists go above and beyond what the average person would ever do. Most average people have only 1 or 2 pets. Animal activists often have 10, 20, 30 or more dogs and cats, that they take care of. And still they open their homes and hearts to more.
Please don't accuse these valiant people of taking the easy route. That's an offense to these hard-working people who do so much more than others.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]How can the larger issue be fixed when we focus on its fallout by doing lesser evil?
Please tell us what the solution is, then.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]What happened to living by example.. when will we stop doing the lesser evils and do what is right for once!? If you think/feel its wrong.. STOP and do what you think/feel is right. Its a choice.
This is my truth.
I'm always open to a better way. Please advise me of the better way. It's useless to just tell us what
not to do. Please tell us what TO do.
(01-27-2013, 01:09 PM)Lycen Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for the response Monica! Also for the "Cats and Kittens" thread link, I read through it.
We're on the same team, Lycen.
I've allowed my perspective to be shaped more and more by Buddhism. Initially I thought that his teachings were specifically catered to a land of poverty and rigid castes. The more that I worked with it though, I realized that his teachings are actually extremely pertinent to all aspects of life and have begun applying them more and more.
This is relevant as one confusing part of Buddhism is the teaching that both pleasure and suffering are to be avoided. Instead you are supposed to simply chase awareness through either.
If pleasure is as large of an impediment to growth as pain is, then it would be natural to apply that to things that happen in the world around us.
The result of seeking awareness through the good and bad is balance I believe.