So many times I feel like I understand so many things. Sometimes, I feel I know nothing. I need to talk about a conflict within me, and I need feedback from others for resolve. I need to find peace about this.
Being a past Christian, I accepted many things on faith. Even though often I questioned the teachers and the pastor. I noticed, as I read the Bible, only certain things resonated with me. I noticed since a very young age. I always felt a higher something helping me see in between the lines. My mother and I have conflicted so many times, helping each other try to see what the other saw. My experiences over the past few years has made me feel as if I am a catalyst for her, as well as her me, while we share our thoughts to eachother. Its always done in a loving way, it is a wonderful experience of unconditional love and respect, agreeing to disagree. We love talking about spiritual things every day, as I am getting her up and ready in the morning.
I have deep issues with Jesus, and that one has to accept him as God and as our sacrifice...in order to have salvation. I feel I have walked with Jesus, and the Holy Spirit has lead me in my humble times...and feel they have both showed me many things. She feels they show her differently, but her shwoing is through her Bible. I accept Jesus as a being who brought the gift of a true offering of his flesh body, to show us, it was not this body that mattered. He showed us how to walk in the 'Way' in the way, carry our own cross, know love can cure past karmas, by turning the other cheek, you raise your vibration, by slapping the one back that smites you, you only lower your vibration.
I know all paths are valid....I know all still lead to the same ONE. But I fear, that since her experiences came to her through so many things I also believed, I wonder why she was shown so many things that went against her beliefs in her visions. I asked the angels of the Earth to use me to show someone the unconditional love and that we all are worthy, for I had just discovered this, and wanted to shout it from the mountain tops.
I feel that I could of came here, for my mother, to help her to raise her vibration. Too many synch come to her that have more to do about my beliefs then her own. She still dreams of going below the Sphinx, and even though the things she still see's, she cant accept that she is being shown things to help her see something.
Tonight she told me again, that I must believe Jesus was God who had to come in the flesh and shed blood for our sins. She got alittle upset with me, and told me she thought I could be walking a path of darkness. So I am somewhat distraught, as close as we are, a belief makes us feel so distant sometimes. For some reason, I feel I have incarnated with her many times.
Take the post for what you will, mabey I just needed to unload. Thanks for listening...I just dont understand, after all the things she has seen, why she feels that this world is about self salvation. She lives for others, but is so caught up in the idea that she is saved and going to heaven because she simply 'believes'. I know we are all going to be ok what ever path we choose, and what one chooses is likely what one does need. But I feel I have a purpose her, that is for her.
Feel free to add other stories here...that people can share their own times of ....not knowing.
Blessing to all
Lynette
Hi Lynette,
I imagine that you might find Carla to be a kindred spirit. She also loves Jesus as one who demonstrates unconditional love, yet she has little use for traditional Christian doctrines about original sin, substitutionary atonement, etc.
Both you and your mother could remember that both of you share some spiritual practices. You both read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand the love that Jesus has for you. Knowing that both of you do this, it is then God's job, rather than the job of either of you, to turn on the light for each other to understand what God wants you to know. If she knows that you also read the Bible, celebrate the love of Jesus and try to be loving as he taught, and pray, then she can have faith that her God will help you see whatever doctrine you need to understand. Even if her words don't get through to you, she doesn't need to fear that God won't have some other way to reach your spirit.
The greatest bliss, joy and union with God that your mother can imagine, is to have the traditional Jesus greet her in the traditional Christian heaven. Is there really a need to try to convince her that there is something else she should want more than that? Is there a problem with her longing to feel certain that you would get to share the greatest union with God that she could imagine? You don't know much about that heaven, but while you are on this earth, you try to love your neighbor as her Savior taught and demonstrated. Isn't that enough for her to celebrate?
(12-08-2009, 11:50 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Hi Lynette,
I imagine that you might find Carla to be a kindred spirit. She also loves Jesus as one who demonstrates unconditional love, yet she has little use for traditional Christian doctrines about original sin, substitutionary atonement, etc.
Both you and your mother could remember that both of you share some spiritual practices. You both read the Bible and ask the Holy Spirit to help you understand the love that Jesus has for you. Knowing that both of you do this, it is then God's job, rather than the job of either of you, to turn on the light for each other to understand what God wants you to know. If she knows that you also read the Bible, celebrate the love of Jesus and try to be loving as he taught, and pray, then she can have faith that her God will help you see whatever doctrine you need to understand. Even if her words don't get through to you, she doesn't need to fear that God won't have some other way to reach your spirit.
The greatest bliss, joy and union with God that your mother can imagine, is to have the traditional Jesus greet her in the traditional Christian heaven. Is there really a need to try to convince her that there is something else she should want more than that? Is there a problem with her longing to feel certain that you would get to share the greatest union with God that she could imagine? You don't know much about that heaven, but while you are on this earth, you try to love your neighbor as her Savior taught and demonstrated. Isn't that enough for her to celebrate?
Hello,
I know what you say is true, I just need reminded of it all sometimes. Why do I feel so inclined to tell her there could be a higher path? Is that egotistical of me? I really do think I totally respect each and every path. But in this time of 'choice' right now and the fact I feel God has shown her things she is ignoring out of her fears of that it doesnt go with her Bible, the felsh self of me does experience frustration...even though I do know, each path is personal and valid. Some of this comes from the fact that I would wish she could let go of her fears that she wont be worthy for salvation...I wish she could let go of some of the fears that the OT God image puts of people.
I guess i just need to express sometimes. I feel like for the first time in a long long time, my mother and I might go on different paths after this life. I feel like that with many around me, but she is my mom and we have experienced so many things together spiritually. Is it selfish of me or egotistical of me to feel this way now and then? Have anyone ever felt they came here for certain others?
Just thinking out loud
Lynette
Quote:Ra: Control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. Acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst.
Accept accept accept! hehe
I think sometimes I still get defensive and feel I need to explain to her why I chose the path I have after she expresses to me worries that I am not saved. So it makes me question things and wonder things.
(12-09-2009, 01:14 AM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Ra: Control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. Acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst.
Accept accept accept! hehe
Thanks Peregrinus...
I do accept, I really do. I want her to know that no matter what we choose, we all end up the same place. I dont want her to worry I am going to hell or something. She is at a time of re figuring her path right now also, she bounces back and forth. As much as I dont give my thoughts, she will ask for them alot. She will venture with new thoughts now and then, and then resort back to old thoughts. I understand where she is coming from most definatly. I feel a tie to others that are on the path I once was...I feel a strong tie to past Christians for it is the path I walked for so long.
Mom has just started recently giving the idea a thought that the Holy Spirit will guide us without a book. She will share new thoughts with me of what the Spirit might have shown her...but then find it not so because the Bible doesnt say it is.
Dont get me wrong...I love our bond and am so blessed to have a mother that I can experience things wtih. Sense we talk every day about things, there are bound to be days that I feel a little frustrated, so thanks for the encouragement, its what I need right now.
Love to all
Lynette
I just want her to know, we are all already saved. I want her to see why I dont worry about self salvation, but self awakening. I want her to see Jesus walked a path to show us how to walk the way.
When I think on reincarnation....I feel that the belief of blood sacrifices can be one of those reasons we reincarnate. I believe her visions showed her that she was trying to bring blood to her heaven...and that it could not be so. I feel that God is showing her that God doesnt need blood of any kind for saving us. Could there not be a reason God or her higher self could be trying to show her this? I know its her choice to believe what she needs, but could there not be something really trying to reach out to her to let go of this Earthly attachment of God needing blood?
I know this is personal beliefs, but I really dont have anyone to role this over with.
(12-09-2009, 12:31 AM)litllady Wrote: [ -> ]I guess i just need to express sometimes.
You found a good forum for that. Please keep right on expressing.
I have a sermon for you. Please take only the parts that apply to you, and let the rest go on by.
I know some people for whom loving someone, and agreeing with their ideas, are all wrapped up together. In their view, these are two strands in the same rope. If you think differently, could you really love them? (All this is on a deep emotional level, not in words, of course.)
My Mom is judgmental that way and has broken off acceptance and contact of almost everyone in her life, including me. So my heart goes out to your situation.
I can empathize with the desire to be compassionate, to not make someone suffer. Yet sometimes another person's suffering comes from their own pain, not from the well considered and open-hearted values you live by. As I see it, if the other person's pain comes from their own hatred of feeling uncertain inside their own mind, then you are not actually responsible for that pain. This has been a hard lesson for me to comprehend. Perhaps it is what this lifetime is supposed to teach me.
It seems that your Mom might at times be one of those people who is terrified by not knowing for sure, yet also with more loving acceptance than my Mom is able to provide. Even so I can appreciate the sadness at seeming to lose a mother's love. When the reason given is that you dared to think for yourself, that this will make you unacceptable to both God and to a parent. It is a bitter thing to be told all this.
You can love her and respect that she has different opinions. Returning that same level of openness is something that conflicts with what she feels she needs for safety and security.
This gets you feeling guilty, as though it was wrong to choose for yourself what you believe about God, truth, and eternal life. Yet you know this makes no sense. How could it possibly be a selfish, egotistical thing for you to seek to honor truth and your conscience the best way you know how? What could be wrong about that? What God worth serving would hate you for understanding more than one spiritual tradition? What Heaven worth reaching would reject you for not living by one particular group's limitations on the unity and forgiveness of the infinite creator? How could it actually inflict pain on another person for you to have a larger view than them?
These are deep questions and there is one thing I have discovered through all of it that might help you too. Set aside for a moment the apparent issue as defined on the surface: the facts about spiritual existence. I believe that this may not actually be the issue.
The issue may actually be that your Mom is afraid of the unknown, and tries to find something definite to cling to. When she finds something that seems to give her the comfort of absolute truth, that resolves the uncertainty. Then you come along and suggest that what she found is just one relative answer among many. Now she is flung back into the stormy sea without that life buoy.
She loves you but she hates the storm of uncertainty.
How can she save herself from drowning, and save you from drowning, and respect your choice as an adult, and protect her child from the risk of Hell, and know she's totally right, and admit that her religion is a matter of faith that one person can't choose for another? There is no one right answer to all of these desperate questions. She swings back and forth, trying to not let any of these waves push her under. But the harder one thrashes about, the more water one gulps in.
The solution is not in the facts about the Bible. The solution is in a heart at peace. Facts for the head do not heal the fear in the heart. Someone filled with divine love does not need to fear any other person's spiritual emptiness. Someone certain that God's love for them transcends any mistakes does not have any need to make sure others are free of any mistakes.
Well, this is more about what I have been learning, but perhaps there is something in it that could help you. I suggest that you consider, on your own, finding a counselor who respects all spiritual paths, and explore the psychological aspects of right and wrong and control in relationships. The real answer may be that the doctrines of Christianity are not the real issue at all.
Sometimes when a person doesn't know how to talk from the heart, they instead talk about the facts. Your Mom comes to you with fear that God might not love someone who doesn't accept the right facts. You can help heal that fear, by loving her despite her not accepting the right facts about how much bigger God's love really is compared to her fears.
Focus on the love, not on the alleged facts that are clung to as a way to cover up the fears. When the heart is at peace, the head has no trouble with the facts. When the heart is at peace, it's not troubled by fearing the facts. When the heart is at peace, if the fact is that we just don't know, it can still know at least this: right here and now is where we can find the love of God.
(12-09-2009, 03:00 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2009, 12:31 AM)litllady Wrote: [ -> ]I guess i just need to express sometimes.
You found a good forum for that. Please keep right on expressing.
I have a sermon for you. Please take only the parts that apply to you, and let the rest go on by.
I know some people for whom loving someone, and agreeing with their ideas, are all wrapped up together. In their view, these are two strands in the same rope. If you think differently, could you really love them? (All this is on a deep emotional level, not in words, of course.)
My Mom is judgmental that way and has broken off acceptance and contact of almost everyone in her life, including me. So my heart goes out to your situation.
I can empathize with the desire to be compassionate, to not make someone suffer. Yet sometimes another person's suffering comes from their own pain, not from the well considered and open-hearted values you live by. As I see it, if the other person's pain comes from their own hatred of feeling uncertain inside their own mind, then you are not actually responsible for that pain. This has been a hard lesson for me to comprehend. Perhaps it is what this lifetime is supposed to teach me.
It seems that your Mom might at times be one of those people who is terrified by not knowing for sure, yet also with more loving acceptance than my Mom is able to provide. Even so I can appreciate the sadness at seeming to lose a mother's love. When the reason given is that you dared to think for yourself, that this will make you unacceptable to both God and to a parent. It is a bitter thing to be told all this.
You can love her and respect that she has different opinions. Returning that same level of openness is something that conflicts with what she feels she needs for safety and security.
This gets you feeling guilty, as though it was wrong to choose for yourself what you believe about God, truth, and eternal life. Yet you know this makes no sense. How could it possibly be a selfish, egotistical thing for you to seek to honor truth and your conscience the best way you know how? What could be wrong about that? What God worth serving would hate you for understanding more than one spiritual tradition? What Heaven worth reaching would reject you for not living by one particular group's limitations on the unity and forgiveness of the infinite creator? How could it actually inflict pain on another person for you to have a larger view than them?
These are deep questions and there is one thing I have discovered through all of it that might help you too. Set aside for a moment the apparent issue as defined on the surface: the facts about spiritual existence. I believe that this may not actually be the issue.
The issue may actually be that your Mom is afraid of the unknown, and tries to find something definite to cling to. When she finds something that seems to give her the comfort of absolute truth, that resolves the uncertainty. Then you come along and suggest that what she found is just one relative answer among many. Now she is flung back into the stormy sea without that life buoy.
She loves you but she hates the storm of uncertainty.
How can she save herself from drowning, and save you from drowning, and respect your choice as an adult, and protect her child from the risk of Hell, and know she's totally right, and admit that her religion is a matter of faith that one person can't choose for another? There is no one right answer to all of these desperate questions. She swings back and forth, trying to not let any of these waves push her under. But the harder one thrashes about, the more water one gulps in.
The solution is not in the facts about the Bible. The solution is in a heart at peace. Facts for the head do not heal the fear in the heart. Someone filled with divine love does not need to fear any other person's spiritual emptiness. Someone certain that God's love for them transcends any mistakes does not have any need to make sure others are free of any mistakes.
Well, this is more about what I have been learning, but perhaps there is something in it that could help you. I suggest that you consider, on your own, finding a counselor who respects all spiritual paths, and explore the psychological aspects of right and wrong and control in relationships. The real answer may be that the doctrines of Christianity are not the real issue at all.
Sometimes when a person doesn't know how to talk from the heart, they instead talk about the facts. Your Mom comes to you with fear that God might not love someone who doesn't accept the right facts. You can help heal that fear, by loving her despite her not accepting the right facts about how much bigger God's love really is compared to her fears.
Focus on the love, not on the alleged facts that are clung to as a way to cover up the fears. When the heart is at peace, the head has no trouble with the facts. When the heart is at peace, it's not troubled by fearing the facts. When the heart is at peace, if the fact is that we just don't know, it can still know at least this: right here and now is where we can find the love of God.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head. She is afraid of the unknown and believing in the book that she feels is facts does give her much comfort.
Your post really allowed me to step back and respect it all again, for what it is. Its so hard sometimes, I just want to say....'MOM, the Universe is trying to speak with you' :-/
It is alot bigger then just her belief and mine. It does have alot to do with her personality and self concept and her view of the world. When she starts to question things...she becomes afraid she is doing something wrong and that the guide she is feeling could be misleading her (satan).
She keeps having a reoccurring dream of a woman that is trying to give her something. This woman was in her NDE vision also. I think this woman is her higher self taking a form that she would be accepting of or comfortable with because she feels no fear at all from the woman but yet she shrugs it as just dreams that are created from her seeing this woman in the vision. She is receiving so many synchronicities that point in directions she would rather ignore.
Its like I just want to say...God IS speaking to you and its not through your book this time. The majority of the time, we give eachother space....but sometimes, family and all, we do give thoughts about the others thoughts. Its nver in a bad way...but was just frustrated today and needed a little boost of love and accepting.
I think a part of me also goes back and questions my path, making sure I dont have anything to fear, making sure that I have understanding for the path I walk. Talking to others helps this within me be confident on the ground I stand on.
Much love
Lynette
Thanks guys...I think I can relax on this and get some sleep eye now. Blessings and thanks....
Dear Lynette,
I think Questioner has made some very good points, and I will add to them my own experiences:
I so completely feel what you are feeling! After being brought up Catholic and my parents thinking I was going to 'hell' when I left the Catholic church, only to then trade Catholicism for an even stricter dogma (born-again Christian) and then having to deal with well-meaning friends who thought I was going to 'hell' for believing differently, your story hits a nerve with me!
My belief is that beliefs don't matter. LOVE (an open heart) is what matters. The Law of One teaches that the requirement for Harvest is LOVE, not belief.
Your mom has a loving heart. Therefore, I would not be too concerned about what she believes!
At the same time, since you obviously care about her, you don't want her suffering unnecessarily...agonizing over the fate of your soul.
I confess I have sometimes refrained from telling loved ones the extent of my beliefs, so as to not cause them undue pain. Rather, I tried to find common ground. Rather than try to fit their beliefs into my paradigm, which only caused them pain because they couldn't comprehend my paradigm, I tried to fit my beliefs into their paradigm.
I personally see the Bible not as literal truth, nor the 'word of God' but as a divining tool, similar to the Tarot or Astrology. It is a collection of stories depicting characters portraying the Archetypes. Christians often say the Bible is a 'living book' ie. it comes alive for them. They see this as proof that it is the 'word of God' not realizing that the Tarot comes alive for the priestess, and the stars come alive for the astrologer.
Hence, if you understand the archetypes, you can translate the images into Biblical terminology, and meet her on common ground, for the most part anyway.
Even the myth ('myth' as in story, with no regard to whether it's literally true or not) of Jesus can be translated into allegorical terms. The way I reconciled it was to equate the Christian version of Jesus with my own image of my Higher Self. (Carla refers to her Higher Self as 'Holly' and notes that Higher Self has the same initials as Holy Spirit.)
Thus, a Christian 'surrendering' to Jesus (in Christian terms) equates to seeking guidance from our Higher Self. Since we are all One, there needn't be a distinction drawn between Jesus the man vs the Christ Self that is the Higher Self of us all.
The Christian version of being 'saved' equates to being Harvested to 4D STO. The only difference is that they think it's based on what they believe, and we know that it's based not on beliefs but on love. The criteria is different, but the idea is the same!
Since your mom has love anyway, does it really matter what she believes?
Sometimes, when I am around Christians, and they ask me if I am 'saved' I simply say yes, to avoid causing them fear and anxiety about the fate of my soul. Is this being dishonest? I think not (although I might feel differently if it were someone I was really close to, like you are to your mom). It would serve no purpose for them to worry about me going to 'hell' since I am quite certain that would be supreme waste of energy! I would much rather they spend that time and energy praying for some truly lost soul, than fretting about me!
Sometimes, I do take on the discussion, but usually not with loved ones. I might engage in a healthy debate with Christians, in which I point out that getting caught up in the "I'm saved you're not" game is to be deceived...I point out that they have missed the whole point by concluding that the criteria is based on belief...meanwhile 'Satan' is laughing his a$$ off, while they bicker amongst themselves about who is saved and who is not. Instead of fretting about that, they could be spending that time working to right the real wrongs of the world!
I agree with you that the whole 'blood sacrifice' thing is a distraction at best, and a deception at worst. I find the entire premise illogical and downright sick! I emphatically reject its very premise. Why would taking on the outer clothing of a physical body, and enduring a mere few hours of physical suffering, mean anything to an Eternal Being? The Being who created this vast and magnificent UniVerse? The entire idea seems ludicrous to me! I agree with you that the real mission of Jesus was to be an exampe for us. The value was in his life, not his death!
But how to explain that to a Christian who is hung up on the blood sacrifice idea?
I've tried to do that and failed. I concluded that, as Questioner surmised, they cannot let go of the belief because they have too much fear.
If Jesus didn't die for our sins, then that would mean they are responsible for their own karma...and that is a scary thought to a young soul!
I do think that most people who cling to a rigid doctrine are likely young souls. They are just now realizing that they want to learn to love, but aren't quite ready to do it on their own. They prefer to have an authority tell them what to believe. There is nothing wrong with that. That's where they're at! I see no need to shake their world, IF they have love! (Some, who do not have love, are served by having their world shaken up a bit.)
So, I have a suggestion: Investigate Christian Universalism. I have a good friend who is a Christian Universalist and I think he understands and lives the Law of One more profoundly than anyone I've ever met! He has never read the Law of One and probably never will. He doesn't need to! He totally believes in the Bible, yet is able to reconcile his Biblical beliefs with a faith that God has a plan for everyone, not just those who believe a certain way. I can connect you with him if you like. Perhaps he might be able to help you translate your beliefs for your mom in such a way that she feels comfortable enough to let go of her fear, yet stretch her enough to make sense of her dreams and visions. Christian Universalists believe that all souls are eventually redeemed. It might give your mom great comfort to know that her little girl is 'saved.' And if you can meet her halfway, it might strengthen your bond with your mom even more.
blessings to you and your mom!
I can only echo my friends here... belief/faith is something we all have, in different ways, and they are never the same. We can think that this belief/faith is the only permissible one though, or we may not.
You are both trying to convince each other that your own specific reality is the only permissible one.
Nothing is known, and thus belief do not matter for anyone but yourself.
You don't need a reason to love others. Right?
Thank you Monica and ayadew...
I felt somewhat guilty today for this post. But we all are human (well for now) and it is something I struggle with sometimes.
I dont think I am trying to convince her that my way is the only permissible one at all though ayadew, I really just want her to know that I will be ok ...not to worry.
I have thought about what you said before Monica, about just not sharing so much about what I believe, even when asked. I do very much so encorporate much of what I beleive in a Biblical way to her...and this is our common ground that we love to talk about.
You are right ayadew, I dont need a reason to love others. I love all and will always. I guess this can be the effect of two people sharing philosophies and ideas. Today carried on just like any other, we continued talking about something new. Our bond is very strong and we have shared so many things together....I just dont want mom to worry about me going the 'wrong' way. Even though in one breath she tells me she see's such a great change in me, she also worries that the devil is just that sly.
Thanks to all for helping me talk this through with myself *smiles*
Much love!
Oh, I see! Well, it's great that you feel better
I think it's quite hard to distinguish if people wish to force their reality upon a person or simply inform. It's a matter of perspective, I'm sure. And perhaps your mother inteprets it as forcing.
I think your mother is at a threshhold, and if she simply can get out of the fear she has from the christianity I'm sure she'll see some wonderful results.
But do let her do that on her own path and time! Know that your very presence is great comfort for her in this time.
Hi, Lynette.
This sounds like a situation close to your heart.
I don't know how much of the Ra Material you've read, but there's a recurring idea that you might find useful when trying to sort out your own and your mother's experiences. To wit, each experience is offered to the first chakra first, then if there's no internal reaction to the second, etc. If, however, there is an internal reaction at some particular chakra, then most of the energy of that experience will remain there at that level and proceed no higher until the "congestion" is cleared.
Therefore, if someone is fearful about something on a survival level, there's little point in speaking to them on an intellectual or spiritual level. That's just not where their focus is.
The origin of her, evidently, equating lack of dogmatic conformity with lack of survival might be quite deeply embedded within her...could be related to past life trauma watching her family killed for their heterodox beliefs, for example.
Sometimes people can be drawn out on these matters in an oblique fashion, that is, not by directly quizzing them on their personal irrational beliefs, but by discussing generally the perils and benefits of charting your course in life by what you know to be beautiful, loving and true instead of by slavishly following the party line. General, supportive discussions of that type may be of some service to her as they allow her the space to explore her feelings in a safe context...over some period of time.
Best of luck!
~p~
(12-10-2009, 04:17 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, I see! Well, it's great that you feel better
I think it's quite hard to distinguish if people wish to force their reality upon a person or simply inform. It's a matter of perspective, I'm sure. And perhaps your mother inteprets it as forcing.
I think your mother is at a threshhold, and if she simply can get out of the fear she has from the christianity I'm sure she'll see some wonderful results.
But do let her do that on her own path and time! Know that your very presence is great comfort for her in this time.
Hello ayadew, thanks for the hope of positive perspective.
I really dont think me or my mom feel that the other is trying to force something onto the other. We talk freely most of the time without any problems, but sometimes she expresses the orthodox view and expresses she worries about my soul being saved. Even though she feels this way, I still feel as though it is all out of genuine care for me, not so much she wishes to force something on me. It is hard to describe our relation, I believe between mother and daughter, it is a very unique relation and one might assume that we are trying to convince eachother of a 'right or wrong' way. When sharing thoughts, it can easily be taken as that way.
I have told her many times, there is no right or wrong way, all paths lead to the same place. So it is things like that when she will also give thoughts back to me, and remind me, in a caring way, that she feels we must know Jesus, that this is the ONLY path.
Instead of going round with her about our differences, I came here and allowed myself to talk about the difference, which worked so much better then her and I going in a circle that wouldnt end anyways
She asked me one day...'what do you think my bible says about what you believe in'....I smiled and said, 'well your bible would probably tell you to 'flee from me'....she laughed...we have both truly tested the unconditional love that exists between 2 people, her more so then I because her belief teaches her to not listen or give any attention to ones own reasoning's.
Thanks to all for helping me to remember to just be thankful for as it is, so it be.
Much love
Lynette
(12-10-2009, 04:30 AM)peregrine Wrote: [ -> ]Hi, Lynette.
This sounds like a situation close to your heart.
I don't know how much of the Ra Material you've read, but there's a recurring idea that you might find useful when trying to sort out your own and your mother's experiences. To wit, each experience is offered to the first chakra first, then if there's no internal reaction to the second, etc. If, however, there is an internal reaction at some particular chakra, then most of the energy of that experience will remain there at that level and proceed no higher until the "congestion" is cleared.
Therefore, if someone is fearful about something on a survival level, there's little point in speaking to them on an intellectual or spiritual level. That's just not where their focus is.
The origin of her, evidently, equating lack of dogmatic conformity with lack of survival might be quite deeply embedded within her...could be related to past life trauma watching her family killed for their heterodox beliefs, for example.
Sometimes people can be drawn out on these matters in an oblique fashion, that is, not by directly quizzing them on their personal irrational beliefs, but by discussing generally the perils and benefits of charting your course in life by what you know to be beautiful, loving and true instead of by slavishly following the party line. General, supportive discussions of that type may be of some service to her as they allow her the space to explore her feelings in a safe context...over some period of time.
Best of luck!
~p~
Thanks for helping me see why others might not be able to see something as we see it, and vise versa. She does have a reoccurring dream and experienced another 'self' in a past life during the days of Jesus. She feels that this self is relation to Pilate's wife and that Pilate and his family went through alot of changes after Jesus was killed. She defiantly feels very tied emotional to that time. I will do my best to allow her this space she needs to explore these feelings in a safe context in a more supportive way without bias. I do try to do this, it is inevitable to happen now and then, because we talk about such things so often. I am gong to try to not say things in ways that I know would make her possibly uncomfortable with due to her own belief.
A work in progress....we are
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(12-09-2009, 05:14 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]So, I have a suggestion: Investigate Christian Universalism.
Hear, hear! I've had very positive experiences at Unitarian-Universalist and Quaker denominations. I forgot Carla's denomination- Episcopal? Methodist? I do remember that writing that her Christian minister warmly accepted both her love of Jesus and her disinterest in doctrine.
(12-10-2009, 01:02 PM)litllady Wrote: [ -> ]She asked me one day...'what do you think my bible says about what you believe in'....I smiled and said, 'well your bible would probably tell you to 'flee from me'.
Lynette, I don't understand at all why you had that response.
Carla wrote about how she decided to only open to channel any spirit that would affirm, three times in a row, that Jesus is Lord. Look at my thread "Understanding Carla's Challenge" for a detailed discussion of this point.
The primary teaching of Ra could be summarized as: love God and your neighbor. Heard that one before?
Yes, the Law of One material does dismiss the doctrines of original sin and substitutionary atonement. But it does say there's a Creator to love by loving each other and having gratitude and service in each moment. I don't see where your comment came from. Your comment seems to me to have been a good way to pour gasoline on the first, which doesn't help.
My answer to your Mom's question would have been, "I think your Bible would agree 100% with the heart of love and peace that rests in the Creator's love for everyone within each moment. I think your Bible would agree 100% with the focus on wisdom, compassion, balance, and service. I think there would be disagreement on what we must do to enter the kingdom of Heaven, but total agreement on the love of God that we find once we do enter in."
(12-12-2009, 11:47 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ] (12-09-2009, 05:14 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: [ -> ]So, I have a suggestion: Investigate Christian Universalism.
Hear, hear! I've had very positive experiences at Unitarian-Universalist and Quaker denominations. I forgot Carla's denomination- Episcopal? Methodist? I do remember that writing that her Christian minister warmly accepted both her love of Jesus and her disinterest in doctrine.
(12-10-2009, 01:02 PM)litllady Wrote: [ -> ]She asked me one day...'what do you think my bible says about what you believe in'....I smiled and said, 'well your bible would probably tell you to 'flee from me'.
Lynette, I don't understand at all why you had that response.
Carla wrote about how she decided to only open to channel any spirit that would affirm, three times in a row, that Jesus is Lord. Look at my thread "Understanding Carla's Challenge" for a detailed discussion of this point.
The primary teaching of Ra could be summarized as: love God and your neighbor. Heard that one before?
Yes, the Law of One material does dismiss the doctrines of original sin and substitutionary atonement. But it does say there's a Creator to love by loving each other and having gratitude and service in each moment. I don't see where your comment came from. Your comment seems to me to have been a good way to pour gasoline on the first, which doesn't help.
My answer to your Mom's question would have been, "I think your Bible would agree 100% with the heart of love and peace that rests in the Creator's love for everyone within each moment. I think your Bible would agree 100% with the focus on wisdom, compassion, balance, and service. I think there would be disagreement on what we must do to enter the kingdom of Heaven, but total agreement on the love of God that we find once we do enter in."
Hello!
Much of the Bible is leassons of flesh, not of spirit. The Bible is not a book that fully teaches service of others and love. It teaches many carnal ways, which distorts a true spiritual path. The path that is not and the patht hat is are both very much in the BIble, which for me, is the reason it is aperfect book.
When someone excepts the entire book as a word of God, they do deeply fear this Satan and any works or thoughts that cant be backed up in the BIble. So yes, when my mother was finding out about my path I was turning on, she used her BIble to back up her thoughts that I was following in the ways of Satan, which is something one should 'flee' from, out of fear, again, we see the placing of fear from the Bible also. The BIble teaches to replace the phylosophy of the Bible to mans own reasonsings, which come from Satan. So in her time of fearing my path, I also had to let her know, I am fully aware of what the Bible says about this. She would remind me of things the Bible says....trying to show me I was walking against God....yes I was well aware that according the the Bible, I was walking against God.
When she uses the Bible for her understandings, she feels I must be walking on a wrong path, one she should not give credit to. One she should fear. When she uses her spiritual thoughts, her intuition and resonation, she tells me she see's the Holy Spirit in me. She is at a place of finding her own personal balance, I said what I said so she knows, I am fully aware that according to the Bible, I would be someone that God would tell her to flee from.
Our relations are so full and unique, so some things we say may not find a place with others....but for her, I think it showed her something very important. I am not using a book to justify my path, I stand tall without that gratification from the book. I choose my inner feelings over what the book is telling me about my path.
You have to understand, for her to ask me questions about my changing in faith, I would give her honest answers. One of these twistings I was coming out of in my change of faith was the idea that the blood sacrifices were not ever needed by God. To her, this was blasphemy! I didnt force these thoughts on her, we discuss, we both ask thoughts and opinions, and we openly share. Sometimes we might get frustrated, for our paths are very different. But its all in good love.
She was weighing in herself, if my words were something she wanted to hear or not, was there something that she felt resonated with her somewhere or not....was she going to use the book to determine her feelings or her inner self. So this was a time of her really needing to see, I was confident on my path, even though the book would say I was not.
All my best
Love Lynette
I too have vastly different beliefs from my natal family. I love them very much and our paths diverge... It is the Love we share as family members that allow us to "see" each other clearly. I have learned to speak less and listen more... I allow their beliefs and projections to flow through me... and now find I accept and forgive simultaneously and it turns out all good.
I discuss only that which I feel compelled to do so and when I do so I do in such a way that it meets my audience at the level they are at... Peace Pilgrim once said, "know your audience..."
Love--
fairyfarmgirl
Lynette, as I woke up this morning I found myself thinking about your discussion and about what it means to "believe in the Bible."
It's impossible to "believe in the Bible" using conscious thought. The Bible is a collection of books from dozens of authors, editors, and compilers, spanning thousands of years and describing events spanning thousands of miles. As a collection, it's full of contradictions about just about every topic or theme it addresses. In particular it's contradictory about not just what the characters did, which makes sense given the range of locations, times and cultures involved. It's also contradictory about the nature of God and about human nature, which doesn't make sense given the Bible's repeated proclamations of God's consistency.
Humanity had to be destroyed, with only one family saved for a second chance. Humanity had to be warned, but even five good men would save a city. Humanity is worth warning, to the extent of making the warner suffer humiliation and terrible pain in a sea monster. Humanity is worth saving, to the extent of proactively separating and destroying a portion of God in order to offer salvation to every person. Which of these is the Bible's consistent point of view of a consistent God?
We can find the same types of contradictions about leadership, women, authority, faith, works, government, wealth, community, prayer, sacrifice, and many other themes. One can find a collection of material from the Bible, completely in context, to support genocide, incest, murder, rape, slavery, misogyny, child sacrifice, adultery, political "regime change" through violence, and countless other events as tolerated by God or even outright commanded by God. Most people today who "believe in the Bible" somehow dismiss those parts as not relevant to their lives today!
Julian Jaynes explained that much of the Bible was written without the use of rational thought as we are aware of it today. To get through many of the Bible's stories without stopping every few sentences - because it stops making sense - one has to enter a trance-like state.
I think that the primary appeal of the Bible today is for the entry into that trance-like state. This is a state in which one accepts being told what to believe, and gets to feel certain that salvation will come without the need for any work by the rational mind. It's right that salvation doesn't come through cleverness. But it's wrong that in giving up the ego's claims one has no choice but to substitute inconsistent trance channeling from thousands of years ago, selectively edited for religious and political propaganda purposes after additional hundreds or thousands of years. In a culture with such rampant disrespect for the spiritual or intuitive side of life, there are few other socially respectable ways to shut off conscious mind and reach out for spiritual truth. There are few other opportunities to try to discern truth outside the limits of the ego's grasping for proven answers.
The Bible is fairly consistent in its description of the love of the Savior. Even there one has to pick and choose which of the contradictory passages one accepts and which one sets aside.
If the answer is given that one just has to choose to believe by faith, then what reason is there to insist that others must have the same faith, rather than their choice of faith in Dawkins, Buddha, Krishna, Mohamed, Descartes, Kant, Joseph Smith, Mary Baker Eddy, Jim Jones, Laura Knight... or Ra? At that point one's down to this claim: "What I feel is right for me has to be what you feel is right for you." I don't mind people saying that, as long as they don't try to convince me that the claim is backed up by anything rational or consistent.
Well, I'm not sure if there is anything here helpful for you and your Mom. It is just some perceptions I have today regarding the whole topic of faith and the Bible.