Bring4th

Which professions today do you think are like modern versions of shamans or mystics? I think philosophy professor/author and psychiatrist are 2 examples.

There are still practicing shamans today that still practice their traditional ways.

I think many modern people have past life experience as a mystic/shaman under their belts which they can access with proper discipline.

LSD addict. I'm drunk.

(02-18-2013, 12:35 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Which professions today do you think are like modern versions of shamans or mystics? I think philosophy professor/author and psychiatrist are 2 examples.

Psychologists maybe but definitely not psychiatrists as they are nothing but pharmaceutical pimps as far as I'm concerned. They treat the symptoms with medication rather than finding the causes like psychologists during CBT or some other form of therapy.

My therapist won't use CBT with me yet. He says I'm not ready for it. I have to stabilize.

(02-18-2013, 02:16 PM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-18-2013, 12:35 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Which professions today do you think are like modern versions of shamans or mystics? I think philosophy professor/author and psychiatrist are 2 examples.

Psychologists maybe but definitely not psychiatrists as they are nothing but pharmaceutical pimps as far as I'm concerned. They treat the symptoms with medication rather than finding the causes like psychologists during CBT or some other form of therapy.

It depends on the psychiatrist, some are the same as psychologists or psychotherapists but also prescribe medication on top of CBT and talk therapy. But the medication part specifically is where I draw a parallel because shamans prescribed substances too.

How about we start by establishing what a shaman/mystic is. What are their defining features?

(02-18-2013, 03:52 PM)Aureus Wrote: [ -> ]How about we start by establishing what a shaman/mystic is. What are their defining features?

Good point. They explore parts of the mind which most other people don't explore and come back with useful insights for us. They use and share psychoactive substances in order to reach exploratory states of mind. They make a living off of doing this.

I don't think that use of psychoactive substances is a criteria for a mystic or a shaman in many traditions. Altered states of mind are a common if not universal tool of the mystic or shaman, but these can be attained without the use of an external substance.

I doubt you'll find a lot of people making a living by handing out psychedelic substances. I also think we all teach and inspire, although to varying degrees.. Psychologists and therapists might well fit your description best, despite being a joke in comparison to people with deeper insight into our true nature.

I would consider musicians, artists, writers, poets, etc. to fall under the Mystics category, but that's just me.

(02-18-2013, 04:02 PM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that use of psychoactive substances is a criteria for a mystic or a shaman in many traditions. Altered states of mind are a common if not universal tool of the mystic or shaman, but these can be attained without the use of an external substance.

I'm pretty sure most traditions did use some external substance, even incense is a psychoactive drug. The traditions which supposedly didn't use drugs you can't be sure of because of self-censorship in authoritarian environments - how can we really know what isolated monks did in their monasteries? We could look at the descendants of those traditions today but the ones I know of (Catholic monks) don't reach the kind of states of mind I'm talking about. It's possible to reach those states without drugs but alot harder. The only monks which come to mind who supposedly don't use drugs and seem to reach the higher states of mind are Buddhists and Sufis, but they do use techniques like self deprivation and dancing into a trance which I consider unnatural and unnecessary alternatives to psychoactive plants which only emerged because of unnecessarily strict religious rules.

(02-18-2013, 04:16 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-18-2013, 04:02 PM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that use of psychoactive substances is a criteria for a mystic or a shaman in many traditions. Altered states of mind are a common if not universal tool of the mystic or shaman, but these can be attained without the use of an external substance.

I'm pretty sure most traditions did use some external substance, even incense is a psychoactive drug. The traditions which supposedly didn't use drugs you can't be sure of because of self-censorship in authoritarian environments - how can we really know what isolated monks did in their monasteries? We could look at the descendants of those traditions today but the ones I know of (Catholic monks) don't reach the kind of states of mind I'm talking about. It's possible to reach those states without drugs but alot harder. The only monks which come to mind who supposedly don't use drugs and seem to reach the higher states of mind are Buddhists and Sufis, but they do use techniques like self deprivation and dancing into a trance which I consider unnatural and unnecessary alternatives to psychoactive plants which only emerged because of unnecessarily strict religious rules.

The example I had in mind were Vodou Houngouns and Manbos who use music and dance to enter trance states where they commune with the Loas. There are many traditions that use dance or meditation in place of psychoactive substances.

The point I am trying to make is your definition of "They explore parts of the mind which most other people don't explore and come back with useful insights for us. They use and share psychoactive substances in order to reach exploratory states of mind. They make a living off of doing this." could be used to describe a drug dealer. The important thing is not the use of substances, it's the use of altered states of mind to access portions of the archetypal mind in order to perform healing.

(02-18-2013, 04:21 PM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]The point I am trying to make is your definition of "They explore parts of the mind which most other people don't explore and come back with useful insights for us. They use and share psychoactive substances in order to reach exploratory states of mind. They make a living off of doing this." could be used to describe a drug dealer. The important thing is not the use of substances, it's the use of altered states of mind to access portions of the archetypal mind in order to perform healing.

Alright, valid point. I just personally feel that psychoactive substances are an important and irreplaceable part of the process.

Terence McKenna?

this place has an awesome collection of his podcast talks (although, of course, not originally podcast talks lol).

http://www.matrixmasters.net/salon/?cat=13

someone linked me up to this vid the other day, which I had seen before, but still appropriate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c8an2XZ3MU

oh, and I guess the original question was as to current professions or practices. Not sure about that one.

Southern America seems to be still full of them tho.

traditions live on.

This book is excellent - goes into detail on Hawaiian shamanism. LOO oriented.

http://www.amazon.com/Urban-Shaman-Serge...ban+shaman

The author is a Hawaiian shaman and has a doctorate in psychology.

(02-18-2013, 12:35 PM)turtledude23 Wrote: [ -> ]Which professions today do you think are like modern versions of shamans or mystics? I think philosophy professor/author and psychiatrist are 2 examples.

Hypnotherapist.