I have struggled with the confederate's concept of 'violation of free will'. It seems very subjective and kind of arbitrary to me. Sometimes they do answers in highly detailed manner and sometimes they don't. first off. Then within confederate there may be differences of opinions as well. Seeme like 'The Nine' believe in helping people more directly like Ra did during the Pyramid phase. The first question is-
1- When they talk about the violation of free will, do they talk about the Act or the intention of the entity asking for information. A 3rd density entiry may not be aware enough to ask for the right stuff but have every intention to ask for it. For example: your house may be on fire and your kids sleeping inside. Would you wait for them to wake up and ask for specific help like yell water or would you pre-empt their intention and help them save their lives.
What really throws me off is this- When you put a quarantine on a planet, is this not a violation of free will of the inhabitants of the planet? Did they ask the inhabitants before they instituted the fence. And if someone sneaks under their fence then is it not their responsibility to fix the damange caused by the sneaking entity?
I am going a little over the top just to make my point clear but you get the gist. Can someone help me understand - how does the confederate acts in regards to the free will violation. Is their a code of conduct an operations manual or something like that?
(12-14-2009, 07:13 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]I have struggled with the confederate's concept of 'violation of free will'. It seems very subjective and kind of arbitrary to me. Sometimes they do answers in highly detailed manner and sometimes they don't. first off. Then within confederate there may be differences of opinions as well. Seeme like 'The Nine' believe in helping people more directly like Ra did during the Pyramid phase. The first question is-
1- When they talk about the violation of free will, do they talk about the Act or the intention of the entity asking for information. A 3rd density entiry may not be aware enough to ask for the right stuff but have every intention to ask for it. For example: your house may be on fire and your kids sleeping inside. Would you wait for them to wake up and ask for specific help like yell water or would you pre-empt their intention and help them save their lives.
Our actual being is that of spirit, not of the ape body which we perceive in this illusion. Therefore, there is nothing to save in the physical sense, and we agreed to come here in the spiritual sense, so again... nothing to save. Throwing a pail of water on the fireproof safe really makes no difference. The safe will withstand the fire anyway.
(12-14-2009, 07:13 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]What really throws me off is this- When you put a quarantine on a planet, is this not a violation of free will of the inhabitants of the planet? Did they ask the inhabitants before they instituted the fence. And if someone sneaks under their fence then is it not their responsibility to fix the damage caused by the sneaking entity?
Would you let your younger sibling, or a child, do as they wished? We are but infants of spiritual evolution here. Our elders simply care for us as they understand how to, with the best of intention. here are bound to be mistakes. We all make them.
(12-14-2009, 07:13 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]I am going a little over the top just to make my point clear but you get the gist. Can someone help me understand - how does the confederate acts in regards to the free will violation. Is their a code of conduct an operations manual or something like that?
As of late, Q'uo actually gives a sort of disclaimer, which allows them to speak freely. Ra by themselves did not use such a disclaimer.
I hope that clears some things up for you?
Hey the fool!
You're right, the only entity able to decide on a quarantine without breaking free will is the human races higher self. These creatures are described in third person but they're in the upper region of the densities. These creatures cannot be thought of as individuals. They are only perceived as such when we observe their actions from our perspective.
I think you'll find that this quarantine doesn't actually stop us from following our free will in any noticeable way. It stops others from breaking our free will. This kinda puts the earth in a bubble in which it seems to be isolated from the universe. But the universe is not isolated from it.
We can still draw down insights and understanding from all of diversity. The quarantine doesn't make it impossible to for example follow the negative path. It just makes it so it's a decision by the individual and not a defacto result of there not being an alternative.
In my understanding the federation is not much more than a word to describe a great diversity of entities who believe that free will and self determination will eventually lead to ascension. And they express it in their field of influence.
As a result we can go pretty much anywhere and find our own sweet spot to evolve in.
It's like an organism to it's body cells.
Quote:I hope that clears some things up for you?
____________________________________________________________
Sorry my brother !!! it does not
Hi Ali- thanks for your response.
Quote:"I think you'll find that this quarantine doesn't actually stop us from following our free will in any noticeable way. It stops others from breaking our free will. This kinda puts the earth in a bubble in which it seems to be isolated from the universe."
I think it is like one Big country (Country A) going and putting their army into another smaller country (country B) so that other countries can not invade B. Now this may be good for B but are they considered free? Another example: in some religions they put a veil on a woman's face apparently to protect her from evil eyes. Are these women free?
Perhaps you would you consider it like this?
In a busy park there is a place where children like to play. In that park are also bicycles, dogs, joggers, lawn mowers, walkers, etc etc.
We are the children. Our elder brothers have simply put a fence around where we play so that we can play and learn without being disturbed by all the other goings-on around us. It is not to hinder us; it only helps us.
(12-14-2009, 11:26 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps you would you consider it like this?
In a busy park there is a place where children like to play. In that park are also bicycles, dogs, joggers, lawn mowers, walkers, etc etc.
We are the children. Our elder brothers have simply put a fence around where we play so that we can play and learn without being disturbed by all the other goings-on around us. It is not to hinder us; it only helps us.
Thank you my friend for advancing the discussion !!!
I am in complete agreement that this arrangement might be helpful for the kids playing activities and safety from the strangers. But they are now fenced in. They are safe but are they truly free? That is the point I am trying to integrate.
What the heck is this free will they keep talking about? Now if one of these kids in the park falls down and break a leg- does he has to ask for specific help for a leg specialist? what if he does not know what a leg specialist is and just cries for pain to go away and the big brother is just standing there waiting for the right words to be uttered. Hey ! you did not ask the right question so we will not respond, first ask it correctly. This kind of stuff will not fly on planet earth. it is kind of funny to think about it. LOL!!!
Coming to think about it- They don't volunteer information like we on planet earth do when we are helping a friend or a neighbor. We will even say things that are not being asked specifically as we know the intention of the question and not the wording of the question. While confederation sources seem to take things/questions Literally...
What am I missing here? I just don't get it.
Hi thefool, welcome to the forum.
Would you mind doing a little bit of an introduction, as far as how familiar you are with the Law of One material, L/L Research, and the Ra books? That would help us understand whether to assume that you are familiar with the way the concepts are used here, or whether we should include more context in our discussions with you. I don't think it's necessary or required, but it would be useful.
Ra defines free will as "the Creator will know itself." Does that help?
(12-14-2009, 11:55 PM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]Hi thefool, welcome to the forum.
Would you mind doing a little bit of an introduction, as far as how familiar you are with the Law of One material, L/L Research, and the Ra books? That would help us understand whether to assume that you are familiar with the way the concepts are used here, or whether we should include more context in our discussions with you. I don't think it's necessary or required, but it would be useful.
Hi thefool, welcome to the forum.
Would you mind doing a little bit of an introduction, as far as how familiar you are with the Law of One material, L/L Research, and the Ra books? That would help us understand whether to assume that you are familiar with the way the concepts are used here, or whether we should include more context in our discussions with you. I don't think it's necessary or required, but it would be useful.
Thanks for the warm welcome. I am glowing in your attention
I am pretty familiar with the material. I have integrated many of the concepts in LOfO Books. I have read them cover to cover. I can not say I understand them all but you probably can skip the extensive quoting from the book. I would really appreciate answers that comes from your understanding of the material. Regurgitating the material does not excite me and I might as well do a key word search on lawofone.info.
Again I appreciate a sincere discussion and would love to learn from your perspectives (should I have said learn/teach lol !!!)
(12-15-2009, 12:13 AM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks for the warm welcome. I am glowing in your attention
You're welcome. I had an Internet glitch right as I posted. I didn't mean to greet you twice, but at least you did get attention.
Thanks for explaining where you're coming from.
(12-14-2009, 11:50 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ] (12-14-2009, 11:26 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps you would you consider it like this?
In a busy park there is a place where children like to play. In that park are also bicycles, dogs, joggers, lawn mowers, walkers, etc etc.
We are the children. Our elder brothers have simply put a fence around where we play so that we can play and learn without being disturbed by all the other goings-on around us. It is not to hinder us; it only helps us.
Thank you my friend for advancing the discussion !!!
I am in complete agreement that this arrangement might be helpful for the kids playing activities and safety from the strangers. But they are now fenced in. They are safe but are they truly free? That is the point I am trying to integrate.
What the heck is this free will they keep talking about? Now if one of these kids in the park falls down and break a leg- does he has to ask for specific help for a leg specialist? what if he does not know what a leg specialist is and just cries for pain to go away and the big brother is just standing there waiting for the right words to be uttered. Hey ! you did not ask the right question so we will not respond, first ask it correctly. This kind of stuff will not fly on planet earth. it is kind of funny to think about it. LOL!!!
Coming to think about it- They don't volunteer information like we on planet earth do when we are helping a friend or a neighbor. We will even say things that are not being asked specifically as we know the intention of the question and not the wording of the question. While confederation sources seem to take things/questions Literally...
What am I missing here? I just don't get it.
Dearest fool,
Ok... here we are, in this illusion. The illusion is one designed by the Logos to allow for us to make choices, but hides much of our true being from us. Without the veil, being incarnate was very blissful place to be, when each knew of intelligent infinity and pure love, and of their oneness with the One Creator. Why seek for what you already have? They didn't. This design was therefore advanced, as such, over billions and billions of years in that it would speed the time, which is used for the third density, so that "the choice" will be made more quickly
1. Prior to the veil, sitting on the fence was the more common thing to do.
I will be more black and white with my analogy. Please understand I only do so in order to further my explanation, and not to cause distress or ill thought.
Keeping the child in the park safe from the pedophile is a responsibility which allows the child to grow and learn without interference which may be damaging to the natural development of the child.
We
are but children. We have on one side STO complex, our loving siblings. On the other side we have STS complex, pedophiles. Keeping us away from pedophiles may be a breach of our free will, but it is for our own good that it is done.
1 only it backfired in this case because of our bellicosity due to the opposable thumb... what we perceive as our greatest asset may be our greatest boon...
Perhaps a paradox is in order.
thefool, my friend, perhaps you are trying to get your head around a most fundamental paradox in our reality - that of free will. If you are not satisfied with realizing that free will fundamentally cannot be understood, and that you decide what it is for yourself, then none can help you but you.
Paradoxes of Freedom: 1. If all had freedom, one individual part of all is free to remove another's freedom, and as such there is no freedom while all has freedom.
This leads to 2. To exist is an infringement on freedom, yet one has to exist to acquire it as freedom denies the possibility of non-existence where there is no freedom.
Leads to 3. The moment you realize that freedom does not matter, and that the feelings which causes this 'lack of freedom' can be denied, then you will be truly free, to do whatever you wish and feel whatever you wish. And yet, the decision itself was part of freedom.
So I don't know what free will is. If one is all and all is one, then we all decide together but also decide for ourselves.
The rational mind doesn't like that stuff! Spiritually speaking, it is almost inert. To argue with a person lost in rationality is not a worthwhile endeavor in my eyes. Rationality is a religion in itself where logic is the Creator and god.
My advise is, look past the rational paradoxes in whatever way you chose. Some stuff makes sense once you realize that they're not meant to make sense
(12-15-2009, 03:48 AM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps a paradox is in order.
thefool, my friend, perhaps you are trying to get your head around a most fundamental paradox in our reality - that of free will. If you are not satisfied with realizing that free will fundamentally cannot be understood, and that you decide what it is for yourself, then none can help you but you.
Paradoxes of Freedom: 1. If all had freedom, one individual part of all is free to remove another's freedom, and as such there is no freedom while all has freedom.
This leads to 2. To exist is an infringement on freedom, yet one has to exist to acquire it as freedom denies the possibility of non-existence where there is no freedom.
Leads to 3. The moment you realize that freedom does not matter, and that the feelings which causes this 'lack of freedom' can be denied, then you will be truly free, to do whatever you wish and feel whatever you wish. And yet, the decision itself was part of freedom.
So I don't know what free will is. If one is all and all is one, then we all decide together but also decide for ourselves.
The rational mind doesn't like that stuff! Spiritually speaking, it is almost inert. To argue with a person lost in rationality is not a worthwhile endeavor in my eyes. Rationality is a religion in itself where logic is the Creator and god.
My advise is, look past the rational paradoxes in whatever way you chose. Some stuff makes sense once you realize that they're not meant to make sense
Hey ayadew, my friend Thanks for your thoughtful analysis and discussion on the topic. You are on to something here. I could not follow everything you said but it did ring a bell somewhere and kick started my thought process.
Actually while I was mulling all of this this morning and answering the nature's call the nature answered my call. lol... I had a flash of insight about all this. Here goes-
Free will is fundamental and most basic to an entity's being. Free will is very core of our existence. No one and I mean no one can take it away from us. It is the Original (first) distortion and we exist because we have free will. No one can give us free will as well. It is ours to claim. The fence or no fence around the planet does not matter and does not make a difference. The fence only helps with maintaining the 3rd density illusion. These are two different topics...
The fence around the planets
As for the LOO creation story, love, light and free will are the primal distortions of the creator. All logoi which is above us created the world we live in by it's free will.
Remember that the 'fence' is created by ourselves. We've put ourselves in this condition for some reason which is not understandable here.
Trust that you know what's best for yourself.
Noone knows you better than you.. and you are everything.
(12-15-2009, 02:52 PM)ayadew Wrote: [ -> ]As for the LOO creation story, love, light and free will are the primal distortions of the creator. All logoi which is above us created the world we live in by it's free will.
Remember that the 'fence' is created by ourselves. We've put ourselves in this condition for some reason which is not understandable here.
Trust that you know what's best for yourself.
Noone knows you better than you.. and you are everything.
Here is a quite appropriate quote from Q'UO on May 25 2003-
"So Creator, then free will, then the Logos, then light, in the manifest universe. That is the progression we would describe to you as a way of saying that free will is not binding merely upon us. It is the first and primal characteristic of the creation of the Father, or that which this instrument often calls the Logos, or the Godhead principle. It is the nature of the Creator; it is the nature of the Creator’s parts."
Hey guys,
I like your discussion about quarantine. There are some issues that I am not sure about and you could probably help me to understand. I read books, Quo sessions and still it's Creator's mystery for me
Quarantine means that good guys from elsewhere can't get here without asking Council on Saturn and bad guys get here only finding some sort of window. I understand it that quarantine should be lifted in 2012 and we should move from time lateral to main track. Does it mean that all guys could come here without any problems after 2012? Or do we have still free will issues? Would be lifting discrete or is it continuous? And what about anothet direction, our probes and man made ufo's visiting other planets...how is it possible for them to break quarantine now? Or is it not? Steven Greer said that we can't get out, because of something that blocks us. I am wondering if Steven Greer is Law of One student and how serious does he take this material and fuzing his insider sources with LOO material. I know it's lot of questions, but it's very interesting for me, concept that there could be some landing. And of course, what about the Orion guys... Will they stay here or will they simply leave after 2012?
(12-14-2009, 09:35 PM)thefool Wrote: [ -> ]I think it is like one Big country (Country A) going and putting their army into another smaller country (country B) so that other countries can not invade B. Now this may be good for B but are they considered free? Another example: in some religions they put a veil on a woman's face apparently to protect her from evil eyes. Are these women free?
I think they're free if it is what they desire to do.
The hijab does not protect from evil eyes. Even if it may have been used as such once. It is now a symbol of islamic consciousness. I think everyone should be free to choose to wear it or not. I don't know many women who wear it but those I do know do so through their own free will even in the face of prejudice. The females in my group of Sufism tend to follow contemporary fashion and style.
In this light I believe that freedom does not depend on your clothes, it depends on your ability to create your own life and find your own sweet spot. For some this may be wearing a hijab. My personal expression of spiritual freedom has always been my long hair. There doesn't happen to be any religious rules promoting this in my environment. But some groups of jews among them rastafarians do consider it one of the do's...
@Nathan: as far as I understand by 2012 the human race will be at a point where this outside influence no longer affects them to the point of removing their own free will.
I followed Greer a bit he doesn't strike me as someone who knows the Law of One, he doesn't show he does. But I think the idea is that there's one world in one universe, this one, both perspectives have a unique vantage point at it, if they agree then that's actually a good sign for those perspectives even if they have little else in common.
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I think they're free if it is what they desire to do.
In this light I believe that freedom does not depend on your clothes, it depends on your ability to create your own life and find your own sweet spot.
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Well said.