There are lots of mention of spiritual wars between 4th-density entities. I think part of the 4th-density equation is accepting those you are defending yourself and others against, if you engage in this type of catalyst. I don't know how you could learn to love just by loving those whom naturally give love. That's not much of a challenge. I think their might be a negative component to 4th density -- just not as harsh as 3rd density.
As for 4th density negative... I have no clue what their catalyst will be besides being in constant hate which seems paradoxical to me. I wonder how 4th density negative ends up serving the Creator.
What do you think?
I don't expect it to be cupcakes and rainbow; life just isn't that way. It will probably seem like it in comparison to this density, however.
As has been stated, polarity is an important quality in determining whether or not one is ready to graduate from this density; so, in terms of a positive harvest, acceptance is crucial. Acceptance has no value for negative entities - they prefer control. Also, keep in mind that positive and negative fourth density are on different planets.
I hope there is a negative element, polarity is what makes life beautiful; in fact, the experience of life cannot even exist without polarity. It is a common misconception that someone who is blind can see only darkness, they actually don't even see that. Someone can only see darkness if they can see light too - they come together as a package. It is when both exist together that the experience of sight is created. In a similar way, it is when the masculine and feminine come together that a new life is born; without both, there is nothing.
(03-23-2013, 02:22 AM)Adonai-1 Wrote: [ -> ]There are lots of mention of spiritual wars between 4th-density entities. I think part of the 4th-density equation is accepting those you are defending yourself and others against, if you engage in this type of catalyst. I don't know how you could learn to love just by loving those whom naturally give love. That's not much of a challenge. I think their might be a negative component to 4th density -- just not as harsh as 3rd density.
As for 4th density negative... I have no clue what their catalyst will be besides being in constant hate which seems paradoxical to me. I wonder how 4th density negative ends up serving the Creator.
What do you think?
4th density negative serves the creator because the experiences which attract 4th density service to self entities are also exercises in the creator knowing itself. Its impossible not to serve the creator. The creator is everything, so any exploration, no matter how dark or light, is serving the creator in its finite exploration of itself.
Quote:19.17 Questioner: Can you tell me what bias creates their momentum toward the chosen path of service to self?
Ra: I am Ra. We can speak only in metaphor. Some love the light. Some love the darkness. It is a matter of the unique and infinitely various Creator choosing and playing among its experiences as a child upon a picnic. Some enjoy the picnic and find the sun beautiful, the food delicious, the games refreshing, and glow with the joy of creation. Some find the night delicious, their picnic being pain, difficulty, sufferings of others, and the examination of the perversities of nature. These enjoy a different picnic.
All these experiences are available. It is free will of each entity which chooses the form of play, the form of pleasure.
(03-23-2013, 03:33 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]4th density negative serves the creator because the experiences which attract 4th density service to self entities are also exercises in the creator knowing itself. Its impossible not to serve the creator. The creator is everything, so any exploration, no matter how dark or light, is serving the creator in its finite exploration of itself.
Yes, thanks for the reminder.
But what I wish to know what exact knowledge and experience is gained. You know, the exact lessons in 4th density negative, if you will.
Self-empowerment through the enslavement (or killing) of other-selves, I believe. They have difficulties forming societies due to the individualism.
You sure?
Seems to me that warfare in a reality of dreams would be any form you wish for it to be. I prefer mine to be My Little Pony and The Next Generation.
They do have warfare and conflict but show nice examples of how love and prevalence of STO attitude can prevail even in most basic societies (Agricultural for MLP and small exploration craft for TNG).
Please remember that even the act of making love is a war of a kind. It is a war that My 4th D is full of. A war of reproduction and love!
"Dream" density is 6th density, where one can create the reality. There is not warfare. 4th density positive planets need to defend against external invasion attempts.
Quote:It will probably seem like it in comparison to this density, however.
Compared to early 3rd density conditions, I think 'cupcakes and roses' actually fits quite well in the here and now. We forget how far we've come just in the last 100 years alone...
What may be surprising is actually how close our current world might look to a 4D planet when all is said and done. All it may take is a bit of rearranging of the deck chairs, imo. If we see technology as an extension of ourselves, things like telepathy and such already exist. 'Thought turning to things' could just be hinting at technology in manufacturing and prototyping or the digital revolution in general. If we can get some 4D societal systems into place and into use, things may get '4D' very quickly. I'm focusing on such things as much as is possible for myself. 4D is now.
52.9 Wrote:"The Wanderer, if it remembers and dedicates itself to service, will polarize much more rapidly than is possible in the far more etiolated realms of higher-density catalyst."
Personally I believe only an Orion landing would polarize this planet. There have been some "premonitions" (such as V, Independence Day, Earth Final Conflict, War between Worlds) so that may be one probability vortex.
(03-27-2013, 05:00 AM)greywolf Wrote: [ -> ]Personally I believe only an Orion landing would polarize this planet. There have been some "premonitions" (such as V, Independence Day, Earth Final Conflict, War between Worlds) so that may be one probability vortex.
It has been said many times over that Earth is slated as a 4D+ planet moving past 3rd density. If it doesn't make that designation, the 'earth changes' would be of a more cataclysmic nature and it would become uninhabitable rather than going to 4D-, so I don't think an Orion landing would be very possible in any way, shape, or form (i guess there is always a chance, but only if Ra and Q'uo are both bunk)
The 'premonitions' you speak of are nothing more than Orion programming found in our culture. Fear of the unknown, fear of those more advanced than us... the key to all of those shows are fear. That should tell you something about the source.
I have an old thread where I argue that the 'difference' between 3D and 4D is perception; how exactly we perceive the world around us. Think of it simply as confusion vs understanding. This is why the 3D and 4D 'bodies' are incompatible; you cannot think in two diffferent ways at once. 'electrically incompatible fields' could refer to brain function. Do we know for sure that 4D is a completely different place both physically and otherwise? What if 3D and 4D share the same stage, but interact differently? What if 4D is already laid before us, it just comes down to whether or not you have 'jacked in' to awareness of it?
(03-27-2013, 11:52 AM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]It has been said many times over that Earth is slated as a 4D+ planet moving past 3rd density. If it doesn't make that designation, the 'earth changes' would be of a more cataclysmic nature and it would become uninhabitable rather than going to 4D-, so I don't think an Orion landing would be very possible in any way, shape, or form (i guess there is always a chance, but only if Ra and Q'uo are both bunk)
I don't believe it's "slated" for anything, what happens depends on those who live here. There is only an "automatic" end to a cycle, and that in itself just means no more opportunities on this planet.
Here is Ra on an invasion, so I don't agree with the "bunk".
Quote:16.9 Questioner: If the Orion group was able to land, would this increase their polarization? What I am trying to get at is, is it better for them to work behind the scenes and get recruits, shall we say, from our planet, the person on our planet going towards service to self strictly on his own using his free will, or is it just as good for the Orion group to land upon our planet and demonstrate remarkable powers and get people like that?
Ra: I am Ra. The first instance is, in the long run, shall we put it, more salubrious for the Orion group in that it does not infringe upon the Law of One by landing and, thus, does its work through those of this planet. In the second circumstance, a mass landing would create a loss of polarization due to the infringement upon the free will of the planet. However, it would be a gamble. If the planet then were conquered and became part of the Empire, the free will would then be re-established. This is restrained in action due to the desire of the Orion group to progress towards the One Creator. This desire to progress inhibits the group from breaking the Law of Confusion.
Also considering the possibility that quarantine may have been lifted. (I do agree that it would likely be their last resort.) I suspect perhaps it's their "turn" now, the light has had it's opportunity in recent times.
(03-27-2013, 11:52 AM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]The 'premonitions' you speak of are nothing more than Orion programming found in our culture. Fear of the unknown, fear of those more advanced than us... the key to all of those shows are fear. That should tell you something about the source.
If you think the usual response to these kind of movies is fear, I'm not sure you have watched that many movies. I do agree that there are also these kind of movies you mention.
(03-27-2013, 11:52 AM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]I have an old thread where I argue that the 'difference' between 3D and 4D is perception; how exactly we perceive the world around us. Think of it simply as confusion vs understanding. This is why the 3D and 4D 'bodies' are incompatible; you cannot think in two diffferent ways at once. 'electrically incompatible fields' could refer to brain function. Do we know for sure that 4D is a completely different place both physically and otherwise? What if 3D and 4D share the same stage, but interact differently? What if 4D is already laid before us, it just comes down to whether or not you have 'jacked in' to awareness of it?
You believe there is already widespread positive polarization while I don't. Money systems rule, warfare is around the corner, even the movies (and video games) discussed suggest otherwise.
Quote:If you think the usual response to these kind of movies is fear, I'm not sure you have watched that many movies. I do agree that there are also these kind of movies you mention.
I have a university degree in Film Studies.... i've seen a few
Quote:I don't believe it's "slated" for anything, what happens depends on those who live here. There is only an "automatic" end to a cycle, and that in itself just means no more opportunities on this planet.
'end of cycle' happened a while ago already. If what you say is true, what then of the 'transition period' of 100-700 years as the planet's inhabitants allow the 3D thoughtforms and artifacts to fade away and be replaced with 4D versions?
As far as things depending on those who live here, what then do you think about the fact that the planetary population has nearly doubled since the time Ra gave these channelings? What of Ra mentioning that more and more wanderers would incarnate here for the harvest moving forward, as to help pull the planet's vibrations closer to the 4D+ goal that has been set by the sub-Logos?
Here's a few quotes to reinforce what i'm trying to say:
Quote:13.22 Questioner: Is— what is the density level of our planet Earth at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. The sphere upon which you dwell is third density in its beingness of mind/body/spirit complexes. It is now in a space/time continuum, fourth density. This is causing a somewhat difficult harvest.
Earth is already 4th Density in nature. We are still 3rd density in nature, and this is the disconnect we all experience. We are 3D beings in a 4D world; not much of it is apparent to us nor does it make sense to us.
Here's the big one that is very pertinent to what we are talking about:
Quote:17.23 Questioner: You spoke of the alleviation of karma being forgiveness. Are… are… I’m having a hard time phrasing this question. I think I’ll have to come back to it. I’ll ask this other question. Can you tell me why the Earth will be fourth-density positive instead of fourth-density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?
Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.
The 'harvest' happens at and beyond death. As for the here and now, the 4th density positive earth will only emerge when we change ourselves to allow it to emerge. We have to put an end to 3D energies and thought patterns within our own lives and communities, and only at that time will the 4D sphere become 'habitable'. This will most likely happen through generational change (hence why Ra mentions this happening through the reproduction cycle) as many of us have way too much 3D influence on our lives to this point already. We are already patterned to think in 3D terms, and therefore, 4D would be very tough for any of us to adjust to as we were all imprinted with strong 3D vibrations from a very young age. As we come closer and closer to a 4D society, this change will become inherent through our children as we remove that which doesn't fit from our models moving forward. This could take 2 generations or it could take 20 generations; that part is up to us and how quickly we would like to move as a whole.
I can dig up more quotes and such if you have more questions about it all. Earth will not be a 4D negative planet - period. There will be no 'landings' - orion or otherwise - until we call for such landings. The reality is we have a lot of work on the table as it is.
(03-27-2013, 01:46 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:If you think the usual response to these kind of movies is fear, I'm not sure you have watched that many movies. I do agree that there are also these kind of movies you mention.
I have a university degree in Film Studies.... i've seen a few
Quote:I don't believe it's "slated" for anything, what happens depends on those who live here. There is only an "automatic" end to a cycle, and that in itself just means no more opportunities on this planet.
'end of cycle' happened a while ago already. If what you say is true, what then of the 'transition period' of 100-700 years as the planet's inhabitants allow the 3D thoughtforms and artifacts to fade away and be replaced with 4D versions?
As far as things depending on those who live here, what then do you think about the fact that the planetary population has nearly doubled since the time Ra gave these channelings? What of Ra mentioning that more and more wanderers would incarnate here for the harvest moving forward, as to help pull the planet's vibrations closer to the 4D+ goal that has been set by the sub-Logos?
Here's a few quotes to reinforce what i'm trying to say:
Quote:13.22 Questioner: Is— what is the density level of our planet Earth at this time?
Ra: I am Ra. The sphere upon which you dwell is third density in its beingness of mind/body/spirit complexes. It is now in a space/time continuum, fourth density. This is causing a somewhat difficult harvest.
Earth is already 4th Density in nature. We are still 3rd density in nature, and this is the disconnect we all experience. We are 3D beings in a 4D world; not much of it is apparent to us nor does it make sense to us.
Here's the big one that is very pertinent to what we are talking about:
Quote:17.23 Questioner: You spoke of the alleviation of karma being forgiveness. Are… are… I’m having a hard time phrasing this question. I think I’ll have to come back to it. I’ll ask this other question. Can you tell me why the Earth will be fourth-density positive instead of fourth-density negative after the cycle is complete since it seems that there is a greater negative population?
Ra: I am Ra. The Earth seems to be negative. That is due to the quiet, shall we say, horror which is the common distortion which those good or positively oriented entities have towards the occurrences which are of your space/time present. However, those oriented and harvestable in the ways of service to others greatly outnumber those whose orientation towards service to self has become that of harvestable quality.
The 'harvest' happens at and beyond death. As for the here and now, the 4th density positive earth will only emerge when we change ourselves to allow it to emerge. We have to put an end to 3D energies and thought patterns within our own lives and communities, and only at that time will the 4D sphere become 'habitable'. This will most likely happen through generational change (hence why Ra mentions this happening through the reproduction cycle) as many of us have way too much 3D influence on our lives to this point already. We are already patterned to think in 3D terms, and therefore, 4D would be very tough for any of us to adjust to as we were all imprinted with strong 3D vibrations from a very young age. As we come closer and closer to a 4D society, this change will become inherent through our children as we remove that which doesn't fit from our models moving forward. This could take 2 generations or it could take 20 generations; that part is up to us and how quickly we would like to move as a whole.
I can dig up more quotes and such if you have more questions about it all. Earth will not be a 4D negative planet - period. There will be no 'landings' - orion or otherwise - until we call for such landings. The reality is we have a lot of work on the table as it is.
To me it seems you contradict yourself, on one hand it's a "goal" set by some sub-Logos on the other hand change depends on personal change. "Continuum" to me means a transitional stage. End of cycle to me is still in the future. Wanderers can promote both positive and negative polarization. But I agree that it's of no use to dwell on negative probabilities, so I won't argue this from this point on.
Quote:To me it seems you contradict yourself, on one hand it's a "goal" set by some sub-Logos on the other hand change depends on personal change.
All is one, my friend. All work in concert with another on behalf of the One Infinite Creator.
I don't mean to characterize the sub-logos as having goals or being in control in any way. According to Ra, the reason earth will become a 4D positive planet is because it was decided as much by the Council of Saturn, or by the beings who abide in the realms above our own. In terms of negative polarization on earth, we have to remember there have only been a handful of harvestable STS entities on this planet over the entire 3D cycle, and we're talking about the baddest mofos that ever lived. Genghis Khan was apparently one of these; today, 1 in 200 men are direct descendants of him due to his rape and pillage copulation habits; he was known to make his enemies eat their own body parts under his capitivity; he nearly took over the entire known world at one point. This is a harvestable STS entity. Who fits that bill today? If any, there can only be a few. Why then would we argue that Earth might turn 4D negative when there are only a handful of entities from our history that could ever steer it that way in the first place? We are 'slated' to become 4D positive because our playground doesn't support that level of progression for negative STS entities in the first place. We will become either a 4D+ society, or the planet will experience a cataclysm in protest of us and our vibrational energies (if we go by Ra's teachings). 4D- is just not in the cards for Planet Earth.
I just watched this movie, apparently there are consciousness promoting efforts at several levels.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnJi9QDSxiI
While I agree that your scenarios are the most probable I would not say other scenarios are out of the question but no longer want to discuss it.
Might be cupcakes and Pinkie pies though.
(03-27-2013, 05:20 PM)greywolf Wrote: [ -> ]While I agree that your scenarios are the most probable I would not say other scenarios are out of the question but no longer want to discuss it.
The only thing I know is that I do not know. Anything is possible.
Love and light to you
(03-27-2013, 05:42 PM)Not Sure Wrote: [ -> ]Might be cupcakes and Pinkie pies though.
And unicorns.
(03-27-2013, 04:34 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]According to Ra, the reason earth will become a 4D positive planet is because it was decided as much by the Council of Saturn, or by the beings who abide in the realms above our own.
I don't remember Ra saying anything like this. When Don asked why Earth would be 4D+, they said that this was because the positive harvest was much greater than the negative harvest (17.23). They also said that our local Logos skewed our archetypal mind to slightly favor positive polarization rather than negative (100.8).
I am so grateful for the positive harvest, however large it may be. I think cupcakes and rainbows comes in 6th density.
(03-27-2013, 07:59 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ] (03-27-2013, 04:34 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]According to Ra, the reason earth will become a 4D positive planet is because it was decided as much by the Council of Saturn, or by the beings who abide in the realms above our own.
I don't remember Ra saying anything like this. When Don asked why Earth would be 4D+, they said that this was because the positive harvest was much greater than the negative harvest (17.23). They also said that our local Logos skewed our archetypal mind to slightly favor positive polarization rather than negative (100.8).
I think it had to do with the guarding of the quarantine and the direction behind those actions; I will try to find the passage I am thinking about. I thought it had said that the Council was in charge of the general 'decisions' regarding the overall development of our planet in the macro, but I could be misremembering...
Regardless, it's a small point. Like you say, the positive harvest was much larger than the negative, which kinda fits in. Council or no council, the idea that there was enough of a negative harvest to push the planet towards that polarity doesn't hold any water as far as Ra's channelings go. That was my overall point.
Similar to the not understanding the brain so we can't reproduce it, we don't understand 4D so why manufacture a revelation about some ironic conditions which are to be the actual consequence of a completely undetermined social system? It's a self-referential loop of innuendo and conveniently vague notions. In an ad-hoc manner, according to fantasy and whim, a story of "that which transcends 3D" is created to suit the desires of entertainment and escapism.
(03-28-2013, 12:41 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Similar to the not understanding the brain so we can't reproduce it, we don't understand 4D so why manufacture a revelation about some ironic conditions which are to be the actual consequence of a completely undetermined social system? It's a self-referential loop of innuendo and conveniently vague notions. In an ad-hoc manner, according to fantasy and whim, a story of "that which transcends 3D" is created to suit the desires of entertainment and escapism.
Do we never have opportunities to transcend 3D then? Is that not possible in your point of view?
Just as you say, we cannot and do not understand 4D. Could it then be that it is right in front of our noses and not be recognized by us? and if that is the case, maybe the only thing holding us back from understanding it is attempting to work with it?
Zen, you are welcome to dwell in 3D energies as long as you like. I prefer to search out windows into the 4D energies. Thought experiments is how I do such things. I don't think it's a waste of time or purely entertainment; I take a lot from it and I feel i've grown from it.
4th density WILL be cupcakes, rainbows, unicorns (quadracorns?) and fairies for me.
In this density as well as all others, existence is what it's made to be...
There is supposedly warring in the heavens, but only for those who feel there is something to defend.
As above, so below... I imagine there are entities who feel they must fight against an opposing force for some cause, in all layers of creation.
As for me, STO, STS, who cares? BALANCE is what I want. Equilibrium.
All of these labels for what we call ourselves, in all parts of creation, in all lives that we will live, is code for what we really want: total equilibrium. Which is, the source. God.
In short, if you have to fight for what you think should be, there's an eternity of that in an infinity of places. I'm just very tired of conflict...
Lots of talk on what 4D may be like (or what people think is '4D') and very little talk of higher 3D sub densities (tho great discussions when discussed). Could anyone envision what our society would look like in 5-years time?
Pretty much like today but with more dragon/fairy overtones with ST:TNG style technology.
We still do have 700-900 years of conventional 3rd D remaining on Earth folks until all souls incarnated, disincarnated, and wanting to incarnate on this sphere have had a chance and we pack up the show and move somewhere else.
lol quadracorn, dragon/fairy
(03-28-2013, 02:08 PM)hogey11 Wrote: [ -> ]Zen, you are welcome to dwell in 3D energies as long as you like.
Thanks, I was waiting for your permission.
(03-28-2013, 03:06 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of talk on what 4D may be like (or what people think is '4D') and very little talk of higher 3D sub densities (tho great discussions when discussed). Could anyone envision what our society would look like in 5-years time?
Doubtful, but perhaps a lot more neck issues from people looking down at their phones.
I tend to hold my ipod up to my face rather than look down at it. And generally I am standing still or sitting down when I use my ipod. I do not have a phone yet, but when I do I find it quite likely that I will do the same with it. :-P