I tried to subtly hint at this in the archetypes board but I've decided to open it up wide open:
Love is an illusion. Even as Ra has said, it is a distortion. It is a creation within illusory experiences.
This shouldn't even be controversial but I know many of you will question this. Love is something sacred to you. It gives you something to aspire to. And the irony is that is its very spirit and purpose. It is the moonlight in the darkness.
I digress, why is love a distortion you ask? Because it already exists as the defacto state within infinity. The unity of love is inherent. Love only needs to be defined as a concept when it is shaded by darkness and disunity in an existence such as ours. Within infinity, it needs no name. Love does not to be defined for it is not strived for. It simply is.
So when one loves all things, truly so, love as a concept becomes extraneous. A concept needs duality in order to exist, at least here, thus love is only made definable by disunity.
This is like a yin and yang type of thing. Anyways, just food for thought that we can discuss.
References:
Quote:1.1 Questioner: Do you have a specific purpose, and if so, could you tell us something of what your purpose is?
Ra: I am Ra. We communicate now. We, too, have our place. We are not those of the Love or of the Light. We are those who are of the Law of One. In our vibration the polarities are harmonized, the complexities are simplified, and the paradoxes have their solution. We are one. That is our nature and our purpose.
...
Quote:27.13 Questioner: Is Love— is there a manifestation of love that we could call vibration?
Ra: I am Ra. Again we reach semantic difficulties. The vibration or density of love or understanding is not a term used in the same sense as the second distortion, Love; the distortion Love being the great activator and primal co-Creator of various creations using intelligent infinity; the vibration love being that density in which those who have learned to do an activity called “loving” without significant distortion, then seek the ways of light or wisdom. Thus in vibratory sense love comes into light in the sense of the activity of unity in its free will. Love uses light and has the power to direct light in its distortions. Thus vibratory complexes recapitulate in reverse the creation in its unity, thus showing the rhythm or flow of the great heartbeat, if you will use this analogy.
If you broadly define illusion, there is nothing illogical about what you say.
My questions are:
(1) Do the conclusions you draw from this analysis follow in the spirit of the Law of One's treatment of love?
(2) What practical purpose, spiritual or otherwise, does this analysis have on your seeking or any other actions you might take in this incarnation?
Always interesting reading your posts, Albert.
-Isaac
When Ra said he wasn't of the love nor the light all he meant was that he was united with creation. Within unity, these concepts are undefinable because there non-existence is inconceivable.
(07-11-2013, 06:16 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]If you broadly define illusion, there is nothing illogical about what you say.
My questions are:
(1) Do the conclusions you draw from this analysis follow in the spirit of the Law of One's treatment of love?
(2) What practical purpose, spiritual or otherwise, does this analysis affect your seeking or any other actions you might take in this incarnation?
Always interesting reading your posts, Albert.
-Isaac
If one seeks love, then they must know what it is. Ra has stated the distortions very clearly. Love is the second distortion.
When one wants to see through the darkness, they must know what the darkness is.
In other words, by knowing love and unity is the default state, we can better face disunity.
Make sense?
If seeing love as an illusion helps you know and seek love, then that belief may well be a useful tool in your journey.
But to know love through the mind is to miss out on its beauty. Open the heart. Experience that connectedness feeling and you will know love in a much more intimate way than anyone can put into words. This is the reason love is considered sacred by many.
(07-11-2013, 06:36 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]If seeing love as an illusion helps you know and seek love, then that belief may well be a useful tool in your journey.
But to know love through the mind is to miss out on its beauty. Open the heart. Experience that connectedness feeling and you will know love in a much more intimate way than anyone can put into words. This is the reason love is considered sacred by many.
The love of the heart is simply love of the body or love within the illusion. As the body is a creature of the mind, I have yet to see the heart as anything else. I have yet to see this truly discredited except out of calls of mysticism and enchantment.
The funny thing is many will consider this derision of the heart. This is not so. It only is if one considers knowledge non-virtuous.
I hold love as simply the desire to get to know creation. This is not only done in books but in love-making, play and all of the whimsical things people refer to as heartful as even this is the exploration of infinity. The feeling of love is just a return to the unity that exists.
I feel that in my own way.
Words are abstraction, highly distorted creations. The irony is I embrace such illusion for it is an equal part of infinity.
As creation became/becomes self-aware it also creates the first feeling for itself. It is commonly called love because if you're all that is, chances are good you have a positive disposition to yourself.
So begat polarity at top level, starting with the identification of concepts.
That's how I see it, anyway.
Love is acceptance. Acceptance is growth. Growth is the untangling of the illusion, the polarity integration.
(07-11-2013, 07:25 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]As creation became/becomes self-aware it also creates the first feeling for itself. It is commonly called love because if you're all that is, chances are good you have a positive disposition to yourself.
So begat polarity at top level, starting with the identification of concepts.
That's how I see it, anyway.
A positive feeling cannot be identitified without the negative. It only becomes clear with its shadow.
The creator only begans to creates concepts as it conceives galaxies, not at the level of infinity.
(07-11-2013, 09:18 AM)Aureus Wrote: [ -> ]Love is acceptance. Acceptance is growth. Growth is the untangling of the illusion, the polarity integration.
Growth is a function of a reality with shadow. Without shadow, there is no light to aspire to. You are the light, you are all things.
(07-11-2013, 06:47 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ] (07-11-2013, 06:36 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]But to know love through the mind is to miss out on its beauty. Open the heart. Experience that connectedness feeling and you will know love in a much more intimate way than anyone can put into words. This is the reason love is considered sacred by many.
The love of the heart is simply love of the body or love within the illusion. As the body is a creature of the mind, I have yet to see the heart as anything else. I have yet to see this truly discredited except out of calls of mysticism and enchantment.
I'm going to assume here that xise was speaking of what some call the "center" or "heart chakra" when he said "open the heart", not the physical heart. It doesn't have much to do with the body.
Consider this: opening the heart opens a
portal to the infinite flow, to source. So when you connect with others through the heart, you are connecting to their infinite divine essence, a true connection the more limited mind cannot comprehend or experience. Our minds have limitations, but the heart does not, because it is a wide-open connection to the all-that-is.
Indeed unconditional love could be described as flow and unity. It is the recognition of it, the experience of it.
That is my experience at least
If you define illusion as this I completely agree.
(01-05-2013, 12:54 PM)Siren Wrote: [ -> ] (01-03-2013, 05:04 PM)MarcRammer Wrote: [ -> ]What are your thought?
Reality is an illusion and the illusion is real.
In order to understand this let us dispel the erroneous idea that illusion is somehow "bad."
The problem, if I may use this misnomer, with the word "illusion" (just like "distortion" or "imbalance") is that 99% of the people connote it with something bad, negative or otherwise undesired; something to remove, destroy, renounce, overcome, get rid of, or break free from. And yet those who seek to escape are those that remain trapped, for they have not yet comprehended that: The illusion is not a prison, it is a matrix for experience.
I don't think I'd be very far off by making the bold statement that there are very, very few individuals upon this planet who actually grasp the true nature of the illusion at this present space/time nexus (not that it would be a requirement for a 3rd-density entity to do so anyway).
Quote:6.14 Thus, the illusion is created of light, or more properly but less understandably, light/love. This is in varying degrees of intensity.
There are many upon the spiritual path, shall we say, who mistakenly believe that 3rd-density physical existence is "The Illusion." This couldn't be farther from the truth. 3rd-density is but a portion of the "Grand Illusion" that is the Creation itself. The illusion continues. Granted, 4th-density is not 3rd-density (just as 3D light is not 4D light): the stage changes, the illusion changes. As Ra said (29.20), as the mind/body/spirit complex evolves upwards/inwards the illusion becomes "denser" (i.e. more vivid, more lucid, more vibrant; having a greater spiritual gravity, drawing closer to the One Infinite Creator).
So let me ask you a question: If the dreamer dreaming the dream is real, would you say his dream is un-real because it's a "figment of his imagination"? This begets the question: Why would you dream an illusion then? Now take a look at a stage play. Would you say the artificial scenario upon which the characters dance and play is illusory or unreal? We all understand it's just a drama, no? So are the actors playing their roles illusory or real? Let's take a painting as another example; would you say the painting is unreal although the painter who painted it is real? But... if there was no painter there'd be no painting. So what is real: The dreamer dreaming the dream, or the dream dreamt by the dreamer?
So is the dream real? Yes, as an illusion, as an imagination of the dreamer. And who is the Dreamer dreaming all dreams if not the One Infinite Creator?
To think the illusion is "bad" is the same as saying dreaming is "bad," that imagination is "bad," and that Creation is "bad."
There is nothing inherently "wrong" with the illusion itself.
Your life is a complex system of illusions after all, an artificial dream within a Greater Dream, an imagination of consciousness within Intelligent Infinity. This is what Creation is. Individuation (as well as subsequent re-unification) would not be possible without the experience of densities, illusions, distortions, biases and limitations. You are a Dreamer and a co-Creator within the Great Dream that is the Creation.
Eventually, the illusion dissolves as the Creator, satisfied with Its intelligent estimate of knowing/experiencing Itself (i.e. the Creation), again coalesces unto Itself and thus returns to a state of un-potentiated Intelligent Infinity to begin anew.
Without illusion there is no Creation, there is no manyness, and there is no experience.
Quote:54.7 Were there no potentials for misunderstanding and, therefore, understanding, there would be no experience.
Quote:104.26 The stage changes. The acts ring down. The lights come up once again And throughout the grand illusion and the following and the following there is the undergirding majesty of the One Infinite Creator. All is well. Nothing is lost. Go forth rejoicing in the love and the light, the peace and the power of the One Infinite Creator.
Those who grasp nature of the illusion will understand that not only the body is an illusion, but also the mind and the spirit (1.0, 4.20); not only space/time (physicality), but also time/space (metaphysical) (70.17, 71.21); not just the human-being, but also the planets, the suns, the galaxy and all the natural laws of the universe (13.9, 13.13, 27.17). Indeed, the entire Creation is an illusion, a dream, an imagination of the One Infinite Creator.
That which is not illusory is consciousness itself. Yet consciousness can dance and amuse itself in illusory patterns of its own creation for the sake of experience that which it is. All is well and all is perfect as it is.
Ultimately, all except Intelligent Infinity is an illusion in one way, shape, form or fashion.
As for delusions: It depends on one's own subjective interpretation. To me, personally, to be deluded is to be dreaming asleep rather than dreaming awake. We are all dreaming. Those who are awake are lucid dreamers, those who are asleep are sleep-walking. In other words, I dance within this illusion, but am aware it is an illusion. Delusion, therefore, is: to believe there is no illusion.
When I understood infinite/unconditional love I found it to be an illusion. I love. There is no distinction in who or what, I just love. (I tried explain this to my wife and she couldn't understand it at all and it ended up hurting her because of lack of understanding, so maybe I'll choose better ways to say I love you in the future.)
Thank you for that post, MarcRammer. That adds much needed context.
As for Vervex, body to me is a concept more than it is flesh but that's irrelevant. The reason you think the mind has limitations is because you associate it with abstraction and very high-level distortions such as words. Of course when one solely thinks through the distorted darkness that is creation, they become dulled to the lower-level infinity that exists in all things.
One's mind does not have to be solely limited in such a way. Semantically, I hold that an opening of the heart is a true desire of your mind to embrace creation.
People can continue to disassociate the mind from this and that's fine.
Regardless, I acknowledge the heart (lol pun) of your message and it is indeed true:
The heart can "overcome" the dark illusions and dreariness of the mind.
(07-11-2013, 12:19 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ] (07-11-2013, 07:25 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]As creation became/becomes self-aware it also creates the first feeling for itself. It is commonly called love because if you're all that is, chances are good you have a positive disposition to yourself.
So begat polarity at top level, starting with the identification of concepts.
That's how I see it, anyway.
A positive feeling cannot be identitified without the negative. It only becomes clear with its shadow.
The creator only begans to creates concepts as it conceives galaxies, not at the level of infinity.
(07-11-2013, 09:18 AM)Aureus Wrote: [ -> ][abridged ^^]
Growth is a function of a reality with shadow. Without shadow, there is no light to aspire to. You are the light, you are all things.
Yes, the yin yang of creation, so to speak.
Most controversial thing I'll say?
A girl in the movie theater next to me while I watched Despicable Me 2 had the same shoes as a other girl I know had when I last saw her. I paid attention.
I smiled. I don't know if that's a good thing or not.
Love is simply the most misunderstood, bastardized, and subjectively biased word in human language.
That being said, within the context of a cosmology, Love is, in its purest sense, Intelligent Infinity "funneled" (out of free-will) and "con-centrated" into a kinetic focus of activity/motion/energy/vibration. Love is a Thought of the highest possible order, magnitude and intensity. Love is the potentiated, self-aware Creator. Love is the kinetic, dynamic, creative force of all Creation. Love is the primordial orgasm.
From there on, Love may be distorted, twisted and contorted infinitely into various shapes and forms and actions to gain an infinitely varied experience of Itself.
(07-11-2013, 02:28 PM)Philosoraptor Wrote: [ -> ]Love is a Thought of the highest possible order, magnitude and intensity.
All thoughts are equal for they are "love" or in unity. But unity does not need a name in the end for a name separates.
Illusion is an illusion. What you are saying is an illusion. Truth is an illusion. Etc, etc.,
(07-11-2013, 02:47 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Illusion is an illusion. What you are saying is an illusion. Truth is an illusion. Etc, etc.,
And we are here to journey through that darkness so why not know it as what it is?
Knowledge is an illusion. Knowing is an illusion.
Heh. We will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Everything can be inevitably understood. That's why we are here.
There is no mystery above me or anyone else. Infinity shall know itself. That is our purpose.
I concede. Knowledge is an illusion for all is already known.
The universe is a kaleidoscope of creation that is constantly changing, understanding just creates new mysteries. As Ra would say "Thus all begins and ends in mystery."
Is mystery also an illusion? Is the illusion a mystery?
My hair is an illusion . . . and yet I still brush it every day.
And that is a great mystery, no? There is a reason the old schools were called mystery schools and not just because they were mysterious.
So we can conclude illusion is reality and reality is illusion.
People may think I wish to transcend it... I just wish to know it. Anyways, this discussion will be beneficial for all who see it.
And everything is reality.
Nothing does not exist.
Reality/illusion are yin and yang.
In regards to love, love is what generates light and imprints it with information. Light is what makes up the holographic reality in which we find ourselves. As such love is the prime mover and creative force of this Logos' creation. This reality could then be said to be a distortion of love and love is the distortion of unity chosen by our logos, through free will, to explore itself.
As Ra said, love is the heartbeat. It separate and unites this creation.
Seperation is not possible yet it is. In the end, love is only uniting even through the illusory separation.
Philosophically speaking, unconditional, universal, love is the singular most unifying concept conceivable.
(07-11-2013, 04:16 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]Philosophically speaking, unconditional, universal, love is the singular most unifying concept conceivable.
And true unity needs no concept nor name to define it. It simply is.
Names separate.
Love is the act of unifying. Unification is the end of such act.