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The topic is renamed to Can healing be done by STS adept?
Please follow to this POST to read the question and thoughts on this subject. If you however can help with the advice of the main subject of the topic, please feel free to write your thoughts!

Hello, everyone!

This is my first message here as I finally came to realize that I am unable to understand some aspects of the polarity so that is what made me to start a topic here in order to find some advice and help in undestanding.

The question is about positive/negative polarity that is a thread I cannot untangle. I am on my way to be polarized but I therefore realize that I can't accept the hypothesis of me being the One with another selves, so that I divide myself from others. BUT this concers only OTHER HUMAN BEINGS. I can easily understand that I love animals, trees, whatever. But when I look at another human beings I feel some kind of disgust like "They are not the same as me. I am not the same as them. I am not they. They are not I."
Is this a necessity to see the One Infinite Creator in Others if you are going the way of negative polarity?

I cannot say I love others. I am more neutral/hatred to them in some kinds, seeing how they are destroying everything else around them, how they treat animals, how they treat the nature. I think I would easily kill the stupid children that are injuring animals and so on.

I am more feeling that neutrality is the right way, not loving/hating others just for nothing but what they do deserve for.
I then think that my minds and feelings lead me to Service-to-Self, not Service-To-Others. Where should I look for the Truth? How to come to realize what is right?
I would like to ask you a question in response to your question: Do you love yourself as a human being?
You meditate.
(07-16-2013, 02:33 PM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]I would like to ask you a question in response to your question: Do you love yourself as a human being?
Yes I do.

I want to add that I also love some people but only in the way I judge them myself.
Is negative polarity about when you treat people the way you like by judging them on your own thoughts? I can love some, I can hate some, I can control some. And not blindly love everyone.
I do love my wife, for example as she is a good person and I feel a spiritual connection between her and me. She is the only one main person in my life. I can also notice that my love is some kind different from everyone's else. A lot of people accuse me that I love only myself that I am not doing something for them and only for my own favor. I see this from another point of view. I can control my beloved, but will never lose her. I am manipulating people in some ways but still in the good relationships with them. What is the sense?

(07-16-2013, 02:38 PM)Aureus Wrote: [ -> ]You meditate.

I do. I still can't love people of the lower rate than I am. I judge them in the way I like.
What bothers me is that should I reject my personal love to other life forms of 2nd density like animals? Will it be an obstacle to my negative polarization on the way? I can't do the damage to them, I am trying to take care of them for the sake of their evolution.
Polarity is all about choice. For everything that happens to you you have a choice of how you react to it. If you want to polarize on the service to self path then the choice is to seek your own interests, pleasures and comfort first and foremost since you, as the most important person in the Universe and the one most able to secure these things for themselves through their own cunning, are most deserving of these things (or so the reasoning of the STS path goes).

Realize this is a tough path to walk though, since you are on your own with no one to catch you if you fall, and indeed other service to self entities are perfectly willing to push you down to advance their own interests.

So if this is the path you choose then make that clear to yourself and pursue it with all of your being, else meditate and see if that path is truly in line with your intentions.
What is about seeing The Infinite Creator in Other Selves? Should I see but divide myself from them?

So you say that negative polarity is about following your own interest for the sake of your own, but what about love to others here? Is negatively polarized person allowed to love someone instead of only him?
Now, I am only going by conjecture here because I do not have much conscious experience working with the STS path, but the way I see it the STS entity would view relationships with others in terms of what they can get out of them. Here's a Ra quote on the use of the spirit complex by positively vs. negatively oriented adept:

Quote:The adept, whether positive or negative, has the same Matrix. The Potentiator is also identical. Due to the Catalyst of each adept the adept may begin to pick and choose that into which it shall look further. The Experience of the Spirit, that which you have called the Moon, is then, by far, the more manifest of influences upon the polarity of the adept. Even the most unhappy of experiences, shall we say, which seem to occur in the Catalyst of the adept, seen from the viewpoint of the spirit, may, with the discrimination possible in shadow, be worked with until light equaling the light of brightest noon descends upon the adept and positive or service-to-others illumination has occurred. The service-to-self adept will satisfy itself with the shadows and, grasping the light of day, will toss back the head in grim laughter, preferring the darkness.
So the negative adept may realize the light of unity and see the creator in others, but rejects that reality preferring the illusion of separation.

I feel like a negatively polarized entity would view love as a weakness that could be exploited by others and would tend not to develop loving relationships, but instead indulge in relationships that feed their ego and lower chakras.
It is the interesting affirmation that should be thought over.
So basicly the negatively/positively polarized adept actually has equal possibilities to evolve. What is about healing? I guess it can be done by negatively polarize adept as well as he is crystallized entity which is the only condition for being a pure channel of intelligent energy? How exactly service is done on these two ways?

The STO adept offers himself only as a channel of intelligent energy to heal? While STS adept may improve its own ego and assign the posssibilities of healing exclusively to himself while offering it to others, other words it is HE who heals, not the intelligent energy? However he may surely know that he is just a pure channel. I believe the difference lays in the way the healing is offered to others?
Good question, I'm not sure how the STS adept would go about healing.
I renamed the topic in order to get the people's thoughts on the subject of healing by STS adept.
However, if everyone wishes to help with their advice on the main topic subject (the previous one), please feel free to write your thoughts and advice here.

Unbound

Sure, there are plenty of such "healers" floating around. However, a fundamental difference would be that they act as a catalyat for healing not necessarily for healing but for their own benefit, power, ego and dominance. Rasputin is notorious for being a dark adept who used healing as a way to manipulate himself in to more power.

Key here is understand that no one actually does the healing for someone else. You cannot "make" someone heal, in the sense of curing them. Rasputin would never actually cure the young szar, but instead used his ability to ease the young man's sickness to gain favour with the royal family to further pursue his ideal of "salvation through sin", possibly even influencing him to remain sick.

It must be remembered, that if you wish to follow a path of polarization you can only "graduate" with the appropriate amount of polarity. Are you ready to dedicate 95% of your focus towards serving yourself and making yourself the one and only dominant creator? That is where the negative path takes you.

You wish to serve animals, trees, the Earth, and this is Service to Others, because animals and plants are also other selves in the same way humans are. Or do you only love those things for the advantages you can gain from them?
(07-16-2013, 05:12 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]You wish to serve animals, trees, the Earth, and this is Service to Others, because animals and plants are also other selves in the same way humans are. Or do you only love those things for the advantages you can gain from them?

I see myself as mostly STO, though I can be selfish at times. I'm glad we only need 51% STO for graduation. Sometimes I love trees, animals and Earth for what I can gain from them. That is where the selfishness comes in. I don't think my level of selfishness has made me an STS adept. I don't even think I'm adept in the STO polarity.
(07-16-2013, 05:12 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Rasputin would never actually cure the young szar, but instead used his ability to ease the young man's sickness to gain favour with the royal family

He would never cure because he couldn't or just wished not to? So that STS adept CAN be a pure channel of intelligent energy to heal but wish not to cure so that the diseased person will be cured in result? I guess STS adept can cure an entity in the response for some wealth gained?


(07-16-2013, 05:12 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]You wish to serve animals, trees, the Earth, and this is Service to Others, because animals and plants are also other selves in the same way humans are. Or do you only love those things for the advantages you can gain from them?
I don't see actually any advantages to gain from animals or trees, huh? I can see advantages from people, it may depend on that 2nd density entities cannot provide what 3rd ones could.
But, is serving 2nd density and not 3rd density is really Service-to-Others? Can positively polarized adept choose who to serve, and who to not? Wait... I understand. Now. He may realize that he is the One Infinite Creator with Others, but the way to serve he chooses on their own? He seeks for the ways to serve others and if he doesn't want/doesn't see any ways (please make an accent on this, if you reply: may he "doesn't want" actually in this way?) to serve these entities, he simply does not. Is it right or not?

(07-16-2013, 05:16 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-16-2013, 05:12 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]You wish to serve animals, trees, the Earth, and this is Service to Others, because animals and plants are also other selves in the same way humans are. Or do you only love those things for the advantages you can gain from them?

I see myself as mostly STO, though I can be selfish at times. I'm glad we only need 51% STO for graduation. Sometimes I love trees, animals and Earth for what I can gain from them. That is where the selfishness comes in. I don't think my level of selfishness has made me an STS adept. I don't even think I'm adept in the STO polarity.

I am kinda confused about your message. The entity shouldn't be an adept to be harvested? It may be polarized without realizing?

I mean how can you become polarized without becoming an adept? Am I missed something in studying this subject? Please confirm or deny my thoughts.
Think of a tree that you love. Picture it, feel it, love it. Now, let's fast forward, let's say 200 years. Who are you? Maybe you're in a different body on Earth, maybe you're residing in another plane, maybe you've taken up a 3D existence on another planet. Regardless, let's say at least the tree has graduated, and you are adept enough to recognize its energetic signature. Do you now scorn the tree, for having become advanced enough to indulge in free will? Do you judge it for the decisions and paths it takes to learn how to love? 3D life is about embracing the mistakes, of ourselves and others, as learning opportunities. Do you forgive the tree easily, because of the past connection? Do you feel indebted to the tree, based on things it had given you previously- food, shade, beauty, joy?

I personally just feel it is unfair to feel more kindly to 2D than 3D. Don't get me wrong, I completely empathize, the 2D world is full of beauty and wonder, and humans appear to muck things up quite often. However it is impossible for me to deny the interconnectedness of all, especially humans. It was difficult to me when I learned from the LOO that a STO gives love to all, even that which it despises. It seemed impossible until I realized that unconditional love is just that - unconditional - like a mother who never gives up on her child, no matter how many mistakes they make. Negative entities and scenarios are necessary for our growth and polarization, whether it be STO or STS: We need negative scenarios to polarize. People who play this role are doing you a service.

Quote:I don't see actually any advantages to gain from animals or trees, huh? I can see advantages from people, it may depend on that 2nd density entities cannot provide what 3rd ones could.
But, is serving 2nd density and not 3rd density is really Service-to-Others? Can positively polarized adept choose who to serve, and who to not? Wait... I understand. Now. He may realize that he is the One Infinite Creator with Others, but the way to serve he chooses on their own? He seeks for the ways to serve others and if he doesn't want/doesn't see any ways (please make an accent on this, if you reply: may he "doesn't want" actually in this way?) to serve these entities, he simply does not. Is it right or not?

A positively polarized adept who sees All As One is in service to the One Infinite Creator just by their desire for reunification. By seeing All As One we don't pick and choose who we serve, we serve All at once and always with as much fervor as possible, recognizing the "butterfly effect" caused by every single loving action.

Unbound

Couldn't have said it better myself!
(07-16-2013, 05:46 PM)Guenivere Wrote: [ -> ]A positively polarized adept who sees All As One is in service to the One Infinite Creator just by their desire for reunification. By seeing All As One we don't pick and choose who we serve, we serve All at once and always with as much fervor as possible, recognizing the "butterfly effect" caused by every single loving action.

I am sorry to be mistaken in the sentence of positively polarized adept is choosing who to serve. It was meant that he is looking for the ways to serve and if he doesn't find any to serve here, then he is not serving? So if STO adept doesn't see any ways to serve humans, but to serve animals. Is it still positive polarization in its pure way?
(07-16-2013, 05:53 PM)Seeker of the One Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-16-2013, 05:46 PM)Guenivere Wrote: [ -> ]A positively polarized adept who sees All As One is in service to the One Infinite Creator just by their desire for reunification. By seeing All As One we don't pick and choose who we serve, we serve All at once and always with as much fervor as possible, recognizing the "butterfly effect" caused by every single loving action.

I am sorry to be mistaken in the sentence of positively polarized adept is choosing who to serve. It was meant that he is looking for the ways to serve and if he doesn't find any to serve here, then he is not serving? So if STO adept doesn't see any ways to serve humans, but to serve animals. Is it still positive polarization in its pure way?

Probably, all it takes is 51% dedication to service to others, 2D included. You could live on a nature reserve and not see another human for the rest of your days, taking loving care of the plants and animals, and polarize, I believe. Purely? I think I described what "pure" positive polarization entails, and that is seeing all as one and equal, without favoritism to certain entities. Of course we all have biases as to where our path of service leads, but ultimately deciding you have love for one group of organisms and not another wouldn't be a "pure" STO perspective. But my guess is that it is viable for positive harvest into 4D, if that is what you are indeed interested in.
(07-16-2013, 05:59 PM)Guenivere Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-16-2013, 05:53 PM)Seeker of the One Wrote: [ -> ]
(07-16-2013, 05:46 PM)Guenivere Wrote: [ -> ]A positively polarized adept who sees All As One is in service to the One Infinite Creator just by their desire for reunification. By seeing All As One we don't pick and choose who we serve, we serve All at once and always with as much fervor as possible, recognizing the "butterfly effect" caused by every single loving action.

I am sorry to be mistaken in the sentence of positively polarized adept is choosing who to serve. It was meant that he is looking for the ways to serve and if he doesn't find any to serve here, then he is not serving? So if STO adept doesn't see any ways to serve humans, but to serve animals. Is it still positive polarization in its pure way?

Probably, all it takes is 51% dedication to service to others, 2D included. You could live on a nature reserve and not see another human for the rest of your days, taking loving care of the plants and animals, and polarize, I believe. Purely? I think I described what "pure" positive polarization entails, and that is seeing all as one and equal, without favoritism to certain entities. Of course we all have biases as to where our path of service leads, but ultimately deciding you have love for one group of organisms and not another wouldn't be a "pure" STO perspective. But my guess is that it is viable for positive harvest into 4D, if that is what you are indeed interested in.

I see then. Thank you so much for your time spending to answer and thanks to everyone who also answered here!
I have read your first post about the tree while listening to the song Yiruma - Kiss the Rain. I have to say therefore it inspired me a lot.
I need to thought over everything you have written Smile
Much love, my friend, and I hope to you that you find joy in every moment of your seeking.

Brittany

The positive path and the negative path generally possess the same set of acknowledgements. Both realize the unity of all consciousnesses- that we are all, essentially, One. The major difference is in the perception of this knowledge.

The positive seeker chooses to crystallize by embracing the truth of Oneness, and, working through careful balance and discipline, they progressively remove the distortions that separate them from all other consciousness, until the Self is seen in All, and the All is seen in Self. The self is transcended again and again, ever expanding to include more and more of the creation, and the primary attribute of the positive seeker is a brilliant radiance of Self- the open giving of self to that which is ultimately seen as the Self in macrocosm. The open heart.

The negative seeker, seeing this system of unity, finds it dis-satisfactory, openly rejects it through his free will, and chooses instead to remove himself from the system entirely and create his own domain steeped in shadow. Through careful balance and discipline he systematically cuts away all ties to "consensus reality"- anything that would leash him through overarching divine principle, and hones and sharpens his personal identity again and again, amassing for himself great personal power at the expense of others instead of their benefit, for the personal Self becomes the only item of value, and the preservation of this Self is the goal held most sacred. It is recognized that there are certain universal laws in effect which cannot be revoked, but the negative seeker will do whatever he can to circumvent, distance himself from or simply jeer in spite at the concept of Divine Will. The hallmark of the negative seeker is a compactness and sharpness of being, as they shape the world to their dominion. The black heart.

Neither path is something that can be walked simply by experiencing certain emotions or holding certain attitudes, though these certainly come into play in the polarization process. Both paths require a great deal of discipline, focus, and, ultimately, sacrifice. A part of the Self is sacrificed to give birth to a new Self regardless of the choice made, and it is a refining process that continues throughout the soul's experience. At a certain point along the path, a choice must be made with the most earnest and fervent of intentions. Becoming highly polarized isn't something that just happens because you feel loving or non-loving on any given day; it is the culmination of seeking, working and crystallizing that occurs once the options are understood and a choice has been made.

One may find themselves with a large deficit of compassion, but, seeking the positive path with all their strength nonetheless, they practice the exercises to open and strengthen their heart and expand their perception of unity. One may find themselves perpetually beset with sentimentality, but, seeking the negative path with all their strength, they continually crush and destroy the parts within themselves that would lead to weakness and faltering. Any given behavior does not make you "STO" or "STS", and I loathe the use of these terms as titles or classifications of behavioral systems. You are not an adept of anything until you know the goal you are working towards.

*edited for typo
(07-16-2013, 02:24 PM)Seeker of the One Wrote: [ -> ]Can healing be done by STS adept?

i did a post a few weeks back on yellow-ray transfers which are what negatives would in theory excel at since they infringe on peoples free will.
http://www.bring4th.org/forums/showthread.php?tid=7550
These can be used to heal others temporarily by pushing the energy/understanding of the sts entity from the yellow ray into another persons field. I also noted that if a negative can do this for other people, then the strength of their own yellow centre may naturally be used to manipulate their own field to heal themselves. I dont know if this would be temporary and require constant renewal by the sts entity or whether by virtue of the strength of the yellow ray centre the sts individual is more or less guaranteed health so long as they remain sts polarized. Its mostly hypothetical but its food for thought.
(07-16-2013, 06:10 PM)Brittany Lynn Wrote: [ -> ]Both paths require a great deal of discipline, focus, and, ultimately, sacrifice. A part of the Self is sacrificed to give birth to a new Self regardless of the choice made, and it is a refining process that continues throughout the soul's experience.

Nothing is ever truly lost or sacrificed in this universe. Such is an illusion, a deception. Such deception is embraced on the negative path however.

A true expansion of perception entails only unity; not conflict, repression or a need for sacrifice.

Sacrifice only entails the devaluation of something which is not possible when all is loved.

You advocate surrender, sacrifice, compromise but there is nothing to surrender to for you are already all things. Nobody is below infinity and nobody resists it by being who they are. Such resistance is an illusion that will inevitably be embraced.

Unbound

Is there no surrender to the true self? Must you not sacrifice self-deception for self-truth? Hmm...
(07-16-2013, 10:35 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Is there no surrender to the true self? Must you not sacrifice self-deception for self-truth? Hmm...

I find that our resistance and distortions are what brings us to our "true-self." As all things occur at the same time, so does the existence of our universal perception building off our illusory finite one.

What perceivably "falls away" are our foundations. It's what makes the journey possible. Our distortions are never rejected, they act as a trunk that spirals into infinity in both directions.

Quote:18.5 Questioner: Thank you. I have a question here from Jim that I will read verbatim: “Much of the mystic tradition of seeking on Earth holds that belief that the individual self must be erased or obliterated and the material world ignored for an entity to reach ‘nirvana,’ as it’s called, or enlightenment. What is the proper role of the individual self and its worldly activities in aiding an entity to grow more into the Law of One?”

Ra: I am Ra. The proper role of the entity is in this density to experience all things desired, to then analyze, understand, and accept these experiences, distilling from them the love/light within them. Nothing shall be overcome. That which is not needed falls away.

The orientation develops due to analysis of desire. These desires become more and more distorted towards conscious application of love/light as the entity furnishes itself with distilled experience. We have found it to be inappropriate in the extreme to encourage the overcoming of any desires, except to suggest the imagination rather than the carrying out in the physical plane, as you call it, of those desires not consonant with the Law of One; this preserving the primal distortion of free will.

The reason it is unwise to overcome is that overcoming is an unbalanced action creating difficulties in balancing in the time/space continuum. Overcoming thus creates the further environment for holding onto that which apparently has been overcome.

All things are acceptable in the proper time for each entity, and in experiencing, in understanding, in accepting, in then sharing with other-selves, the appropriate description shall be moving away from distortions of one kind to distortions of another which may be more consonant with the Law of One.

It is, shall we say, a shortcut to simply ignore or overcome any desire. It must instead be understood and accepted. This takes patience and experience which can be analyzed with care, with compassion for self and for other-self.

Brittany

(07-16-2013, 08:10 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing is ever truly lost or sacrificed in this universe. Such is an illusion, a deception. Such deception is embraced on the negative path however.

A true expansion of perception entails only unity; not conflict, repression or a need for sacrifice.

Sacrifice only entails the devaluation of something which is not possible when all is loved.

You advocate surrender, sacrifice, compromise but there is nothing to surrender to for you are already all things. Nobody is below infinity and nobody resists it by being who they are. Such resistance is an illusion that will inevitably be embraced.

Let’s say you go to the doctor, and they tell you that your arteries are all clogged and you‘re heading toward heart disease. They tell you that if you don’t change your lifestyle and start eating healthy foods and getting good exercise, the condition will shorten your lifespan considerably. Would you be willing to give up unhealthy foods that you love the taste of, even if it caused cravings and irritability, in order to give yourself a better life?

Now, in the macrocosmic scope of things, it wouldn’t really matter. You could have a heart attack from eating six double cheeseburgers, die, reincarnate and start your lessons all over again and the universe wouldn’t bat an eye at the entire process. You could do this six billion lifetimes in a row and still have all the time in the world to get the message. Your true, highest existence would still be one of joy and perfection. But would you really *want* to die from cheeseburger gluttony that many times? Wouldn’t it be a whole lot easier in the long run to just scrap the cheeseburgers, eat some celery, endure a few weeks of discomfort as your body adapted to new eating habits, and live a much longer, healthier and more fulfilling life, moving on to more stimulating lessons?

This is the choice. It is saying “I am ready to move to the next step. I am ready to grow. I am ready to be initiated and pass through the gateway.” Yes, you can dilly dally in third density or whatever else you want to call it forever if you want to, engaging wantonly in any behavior that gratifies you in that moment without consideration for the greater scope of your spiritual evolution. Yet once that choice to move upward is made, work is absolutely required. The diamond must be polished and cut in order to shine with its full brilliance.

The work of polarizing will almost always involve stepping out of one’s comfort zone and adding, subtracting or modifying various behaviors as they become useful or non-useful. For example, when I decided that I wanted to further my ability to teach others, I had to overcome my terrible fear of public speaking. This involved forcing myself to talk in front of large groups of people even though it caused me tremendous anxiety, and I would much rather have stayed at home by myself like I always do. Once the final goal was achieved and I could speak publicly without fear, the initial discomfort I willingly entered into seemed like nothing. The small bit of comfort I sacrificed paled in comparison to what I gained, and in fact all that was “lost” was the discomfort in itself. However, during the moment in which I decided to place myself in this situation it seemed like a *tremendous* sacrifice, and without that push of willpower, to give up one thing in favor of another, I would still be choking up every time I tried to talk to a crowd.

It is easy to see how this concept extends into the larger arena of general polarization. It can be very difficult to sacrifice one’s immediate desires in order to benefit the whole, and perhaps even more difficult to achieve a perception of separation from the whole, in spite of all social instincts driving one to do otherwise. These are perceptions that must be continually reinforced, or the seeker will simply slide back down into the sea of indifference. If one prefers wallowing in that sea, who would take their joy from them? Yet for those who wish to continue up the spiral, the concept of sacrifice is unavoidable.

When I look at the self I was ten years ago, I barely recognize that person. I live a completely different lifestyle. My social behavior is entirely different. Even the deep roots of my thought process have been transformed. The selfish, bitter, insecure person that I was has been shed like a snake’s skin, and in many places the process was extremely painful and involved great personal sacrifice. That does not, however, mean that I do not appreciate that portion of myself, or that it was destroyed in the process or some part of myself was somehow lost. That portion was instead crystallized, refined in the fire of transformation, and now serves as an analog of the wisdom gained through my experience. I do not regret a single second of my life, and I can look back on even the most painful experiences with the utmost joy, because of the perspective I hold only from enduring those experiences in the first place.

The true state of every being is that of pure, unadulterated joy, with no sense of loss, sacrifice or fear. Yet to attempt to exist in this state without first refining the self in the fire is like trying to become a licensed doctor without attending a single day of medical school. You can try it, but the results will speak for themselves. It is the appreciation of the sacrificial mindset that allows the true Beauty to shine forth.
If one truly desires a healthy state over consumption, it's not a sacrifice. It's a profit. Nothing was lost. If it truly was worth doing, you will be happier in the end. Thus calling it a sacrifice perplexes me.

And comparing third-density to a disease... I find it rather degrading of the whole purpose of existence.

Anyways, great anecdotes. It's always a pleasure to hear your thoughts, your passion.

I only contend that evolution is inevitable for all things and what hardwork and progress actually feels like differs to all.

Additionally, people get put out of their comfort zones naturally. The extent of this varies and can happen in an infinite number of ways.

Case in point: I see no sacrifice. All things are pure profit to me.

Quote:Yet to attempt to exist in this state without first refining the self in the fire is like trying to become a licensed doctor without attending a single day of medical school.

Medical school can be a piece of cake or hell depending on how you go about it.

Evolution can be a painful experience. It doesn't have to be. It usually might be but the pain can be seen as pleasure.

Anyways, this argument is pure semantics. The principles are agreed upon it seems. I simply don't find life treachorous of a process requiring pain-staking sacrifice because the sacrifice to me is the same as minor evolution that occurs moment-to-moment.

Brittany

I don't think you're incapable of grasping the meaning behind my metaphors.

No one who hurls himself through the Abyss between perceptions can say for sure what he will find when he reaches the other side, or that he will reach the other side at all. On the far shore may lie understanding of perfect bliss, but it is from behind the veil that the leap is made. The limited initiate leaps from the sacrificial platform, offering his Self to that which eludes his understanding, that leap his one desire beyond all others, that far shore his only guiding light, and propels himself to limitlessness. On the supernal shore there is only gain, but from behind the veil the act of will required to make that leap is great and a jewel dearly bought.

Regardless of individual bias and experience, I have no doubt that every advanced adept has had his moments of temptation to turn away, his moments of fear upon the notion of change, and his time in the garden fervently praying "Father, let this cup pass from me." These moments are that which galvanize the soul and allow the veil to be torn in the first place. How can one understand the value/pleasure/profit of pain without first experiencing pain in its raw and visceral glory enough times to desire transcendence from its thorns?
(07-17-2013, 12:01 AM)Brittany Lynn Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think you're incapable of grasping the meaning behind my metaphors.
That's a nice way of putting it. Wink

(07-17-2013, 12:01 AM)Brittany Lynn Wrote: [ -> ]No one who hurls himself through the Abyss between perceptions can say for sure what he will find when he reaches the other side, or that he will reach the other side at all.
You think some might not reach it?

(07-17-2013, 12:01 AM)Brittany Lynn Wrote: [ -> ]On the far shore may lie understanding of perfect bliss, but it is from behind the veil that the leap is made. The limited initiate leaps from the sacrificial platform, offering his Self to that which eludes his understanding, that leap his one desire beyond all others, that far shore his only guiding light, and propels himself to limitlessness. On the supernal shore there is only gain, but from behind the veil the act of will required to make that leap is great and a jewel dearly bought.

Regardless of individual bias and experience, I have no doubt that every advanced adept has had his moments of temptation to turn away, his moments of fear upon the notion of change, and his time in the garden fervently praying "Father, let this cup pass from me." These moments are that which galvanize the soul and allow the veil to be torn in the first place. How can one understand the value/pleasure/profit of pain without first experiencing pain in its raw and visceral glory enough times to desire transcendence from its thorns?

While acknowledging the inherent truth of your words, I have only this to say:

Is pain not bliss?

Unbound

Only for those who seek constant pain, and they can help themselves to that, I am good on that, myself. Smile
At the ends of the universe, does not absolute agony become absolute bliss? Does not the rubber-band effect apply? How does infinity perceive agony? It certainly does not deny it, does it?
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