Hey, any of you have experience with ebook readers? I've been thinking about getting myself one, it will safe a lot on books and book cases.
But I have absolutely no idea what to pay attention to. :-/
> But I have absolutely no idea what to pay attention to. :-/
You should look towards battery life, what kind of file-formats it reads.
Right now, you should "wait" because current ebook readers have short battery life and needs constant recharging. Catch22 is Ebook readers costs $$$ money and to buy next year's model costs $$$ money again, and not all Ebooks are equal.
Most Ebooks are DRM protected, and that limits your choices. So if you buy that knock-off no-name China Ebook reader, don't be surprised you'll have to buy another Ebook reader. That's why you see plenty of them on Ebay LOL.
You cannot easily convert PDF to Mobi format, CHM to PDF, or DOC to Mobi easily. Then again, you'll find reading PDFs on Ebook a finiky process with sometimes Ebook reader hanging out, or just unable to render that page. It's a hit and miss affair, so you need to get the original files from vendor (or else expect to spend ages re-formatting and re-checking your conversion).
Ebook readers are one thin long device that looks like it could probably get bent, scratched or broken easily. Which means you have to get a cover. If you mishandle it, you come back to square one, having brought an ebook reader and not able to use it. That also voids your warranty, or means expensive repairs.
You should consider current ebook readers like first generation handhelds (WinCE, Palm, Apple Newton) - very slow (to turn page), klunky to operate.
Another annoyance with Ebooks is lack of "bookmarks" or last turned page remember.
DRM protected Ebooks have limited numbers of activations. Depending on which ebook-store you buy from, you could find yourself locked out from your ebook.
There are competing formats, such as Adobe Ebook, Microsoft Ebook, Mobi, Silo, and others, but I have not seen any ebook which supports both Adobe Ebook and Microsoft Ebook format, so beware.
If you really need ebook reader, you should get netbook anyway, since, you cannot just read a book anywhere. If you bring a book, you probably cannot read it while riding a bus or in subway. If you bring it to friends house, you probably spend more time talking and doing things rather than reading.
With the slate (google for iSlate), more thinner netbooks, iPhone (you can actually read your ebook from iPhone).
Last, with this kind of economy, don't be surprised you'll spend that money you needed for an Ebook towards some immediate expense, such as gas, food or paying off debt.
Carrie, I really like the e-ink technology and the idea of the ebook readers. But I agree they are too fragile, expensive and proprietary to be as useful as they should be. I hope that in the next few years, they become much more affordable, reliable, and open.
Did you see the news about Amazon's fiasco with the book 1984?
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(01-09-2010, 03:24 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]become much more affordable, reliable, and open.
Did you see the news about Amazon's fiasco with the book 1984?
That statement comes from owning an ebook reader and reading around maybe 1000 topics worth of discussions, replies and counter-replies, monitoring EBook vendors forums ...
The "most" juicy topics are the ones that are deleted/ or removed, that you can only read within hours of posting. Complains such as this Ebook does not work, PDF not render correctly, certain PDFs with issues, very short battery life, problems with Mobi, Silo formats, DRM issues, fragile hardware, connectivity (to PC to move ebooks from PC to ebook), lack of developer tools and so on...
Some users who were really annoyed got replies such as: Please buy latest version of our Ebook reader! Of course, this is not like software where upgrading is a download away. Upgrading an Ebook reader costs money as it's hardware.
If you got US$500 to spare to buy an Ebook reader (along with S&H + Taxes) you have to spend another US$500 next year because of device limitations... The best Ebook reader I've seen Irex Illiad/Sony, but my experience is less than ideal. It's nice to have ... but that same US$500 would compete with netbook (more usages) or BlackBerry/iPhone.
With this kind of economy, don't be surprised you'll have to sharply reduce-prices on your 2nd hand Ebook reader if you want to sell it.
Then again, if you had US$500, I would most probably suggest you save it, least you run out of cash / or fall on hard times. :/
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Ebook Pros
- You have easy-to-read viewer
Ebook cons
- Expensive hardware
- Ebook format problems
- Finicky rendering
- Poor battery life
- DRM issues
- Fragile hardware, you need to buy study cover.
- New Year, new ebook models.
- Shades of green-gray
- You may get trapped into endless "book" subscriptions or book clubs with no easy way to cancel, and possible harassments to pay-up hundreds or possibly thousands (did you see the Web Retailer credit card scam?).
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Netbook Pros
- May be slightly larger
- Same/ or similar batter life with Ebook
- You can use it as laptop alternative
- Easier on weight
- Can read all Mobi/Silo/Adobe/Ebook/PDF/XDF/XML formats
- Can run Office/Word with usual desktop apps
- Can browse Internet with Java and Flash working
Netbook Cons
- You need shop around for good performance/ good specs
- New Year, New netbook models
- Mix between desktop, laptop replacement. It won't truly replace a notebook nor desktop.
- You cannot make a phone call (maybe using Skype).
Hey thanks for your insights guys...
I do believe the ereaders changed a bit though, battery life now is 7000 page changes you can easily read 20 books before you need a recharge. If you don't change the page you can still read the page but it wont use energy, the benefits of e-paper! And they're available quite cheaply now in Europe, I'm very sorry about the American economy but it has certain advantages in Europe. We were also not hit as hard.
The unwanted book club stuff is not an issue in Europe either. Sod off or sue me. At this time many of these court battles are won so in effect companies almost never sue unless they have your signature on paper. I won't join a book club. I'm a bit of a OCD packrat when it comes to text. If I end up reading only a fragment of the junk on my HD it's going to be an overworked device.
I have my eye on a reader that can read all open formats and a few proprietary ones. I will be reading mostly pdf's and internet pages, both are open so that won't present a problem. I do gather rendering is sometimes still an issue though.
I am going to check out how fragile the devices are though. That's sound advice that I hadn't actually thought of yet. I would not want it to break and get stuck with an ugly paperweight.
Thanks, Carrie, for sharing your experience and extensive study.
From my research, I'd really like to try a pair of readers. I would use them almost entirely for free pdf's, and for downloads from web sites that get converted to pdf or another ebook-compatible format with links. The Irex 1000 line has a 10" diagonal, 1280x1024 that looks nice for reference documents, especially full page diagrams. The Sony 500 and up line has a 5x7" case that could fit inside a planner notebook. This would of course be with money available after a reasonable personal savings contingency fund.
I like the Kindle's keyboard, but I really don't like the way they handle DRM.
Quote:The Irex 1000 line has a 10" diagonal, 1280x1024 that looks nice
Hi, I have the Irex 1000. I was disappointed in it. The Power Management and others were not as what they claimed it to be.
Quote:I like the Kindle's keyboard, but I really don't like the way they handle
My friend brought Kindle, he said he was hesitant to recommend due to DRM and somewhat need to convert everything to Kindle format.
Quote:I am going to check out how fragile the devices are though
You would need to buy cover for it. Otherwise you get many scratches to screen or if you not careful, slightly bent ebook reader. Worse, try dropping it...
I gave mixed review over current ebook readers due to vendors not solving current issues and rushing to market newer ebook readers.
You can read on Irex site about people buying older illiads (no longer sold on their site) and only solution was to upgrade...
I felt both Kindle and Irex 1000 were not satisfactory, I don't know what to upgrade to?
Well... I was thinking about a variant of the the Hanlin v3 that should cover all the file formats, it also comes with a protective cover.
> Hanlin
I saw their site, I was cautious about it because they had no Paypal/ Credit card payment, and expected to send money via Wire Transfer or Western Union, along with expensive S&H.
Example:
US$249 +
US$40 Sender's Wire Transfer Fees
US$21.50 Recipient Wire Transfer Free
US$62 (Delivery Fee, from their site) =
US$372.5
Even S&H from Irex (somewhere in Netherlands) to my country didn't cost that much.
Ali,
if you're looking at US$299 range, you might wish to try Sony. At least they use original Adobe reader, so less likely you run into problems or issues commonly on Ebook forums.
Well, a hanlin is for sale right near the place where I work for about 330$ all in. However, the dollar to euro conversion rate is pretty good right now.
Sony is on my boycot list so that's a total nono... I don't like a company who sells cd's and mp3 players and then prosecutes those who would combine the two. They have quality products but their lawyers department is having a bad trip IMHO.
then, post results and how you find it
This was new at CES with a $500 list price.
http://www.entourageedge.com/devices/ent...-edge.html
Dual-screen ebook/netbook tablet
One side has e-ink, the other has an LCD touchscreen.
Also has video camera, audio and video recording, runs Google Android for adding applications, has Bluetooth for a wireless keyboard.
Looks impressive. I haven't seen reviews yet.
I will Carrie
Thanks for thinking along.
& Questioner, that's really a sexy device. I think it does a lot more than I'm looking for though.
Quote:Looks impressive. I haven't seen reviews yet.
You may wish again to hesitate, eInk is fairly new technology, there are two competing technologies, older display kind and newer ones. Newer one, like what Ali is buying is safe.
If you buy that CES thing, it's very limited device - It's more limited than NetBook and bit less than average Sony/Kindle/Handlin/Irex.
enTourage specs observations:
- no internal hdd (or solid state hdd)
- most likely using slower internal USB flash ram/rom (equivalent to 4gb USB stick)
- 1gb memory, most of it will be used by Linux/XWindows/Chrome, what's left for apps?
- flash playblack is not stable on Linux, it is also known problem
(see refunds of Android netbook issue)
- MP3 player with 3gb space, sounds curious.
Bear in mind newer Ebook models are coming out - and if you Ebay your old model - you may curiously find nobody wants to buy it.
I talked today with someone who saw the Skiff presentation at CES. Apparently the presenter said that within the next couple of years, there will be a color version.
The other brand-new one that looks quite appealing to me is this:
http://www.que.com/index.asp
Both of these new devices are said to not use any fragile glass. That would be a good thing.
I really like the full page display size. That would be great for me.
Wifi access to download files to the device would be handy. The cellular access doesn't mean that much to me.
This is an emerging market but one that has really captured my interest.
Well, I've bought the device a few days ago. And I promised to give some feedback.
So far it worked well. With the zoom function it reads quite well.. I've spent a few hours reading on it I guess somewhere in the range of 10-14 hours now. The battery meter still indicates full. It's certainly better on the eyes than a monitor.
Certain PDF's are really scanned book pages, images. They don't work very well. And on other occasions I've seen the reader misplace images. This isn't a big problem for illustrations but if the images serve as chapter headers, on one book it was confusing to know where the chapter starts. But the average book works quite well
The indexing is a mess, I'm not sure if it's a reader thing or badly done in the books but I've only seen 1 or 2 books give proper indexes.
(01-21-2010, 05:37 PM)Ali Quadir Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I've bought the device a few days ago.
Which device did you get?
Apple just launched their tablet today. It will take me a while to get familiar with it. carrie, since you've been deep into the ebook scene for a while, I look forward to your take on it.
Sorry Q, I missed the previous message...
I bought a bebook 101, I understand it's basically a repackaged version of the Hanlin, I believe the v3, but I am not sure.
This is the one at any rate.
http://www.shinyshiny.tv/2008/11/ebook_review_th.html
The previewers suggested downsides are slow page flip times, it's normal compared to it's peers, and once you get used to it, you can preclick, just click halfway the last sentence and it will swap at the end of it. The other downside, you can't read it in the bath... I guess he's was really in need of a second downside.
I'd seen other reviews that said the touch layer makes e-ink screens dimmer, with less contrast, which is trouble in low light.
The earlier Sony readers could be patched by Linux enthusiasts. If the new one can also be patched, then the menu delay issues could be worked around.
It would be cool if someone could figure out a dual layer e-ink/LCD display (LCD on top, with the e-ink showing through). The e-ink layer is great for reading clarity with great battery life. The LCD can do color, animation, and instantly responsive menus. Might be too narrow a product niche to be worth a manufacturer's investment, but it could be best of both worlds.
Wow, never heard of E-paper technology before. That will be nice when blackberry's implement that for their non-video operations.
The epaper sounds like a great way to reduce eye strain. I mostly do coding, so a monitor for this with this technology would be outstanding.
This is just the non-classified technology that we do know about. I can't imagine the technology that exists that we don't know. Perhaps it's like those monitors in Avatar, or even more.
(03-03-2010, 11:56 AM)Questioner Wrote: [ -> ]It would be cool if someone could figure out a dual layer e-ink/LCD display (LCD on top, with the e-ink showing through). The e-ink layer is great for reading clarity with great battery life. The LCD can do color, animation, and instantly responsive menus. Might be too narrow a product niche to be worth a manufacturer's investment, but it could be best of both worlds.
E-ink can have excellent clarity, and it has absolutely no flicker. Just as with paper, it works fine under direct sunlight. Once the image is drawn, it stays on with no power needed and no refresh needed. The problem with e-ink is that it takes about a second to change anything on the screen. While the change happens, the screen flashes. There are plenty of youtube videos that show how this works, but you really need to see it in person.
It's wonderful for reading. You can just press the "page turn" button (or touch gesture) as you get to the last line of the page. The whole page blackout is kind of like flipping a page on a book.
If you type or draw onto the display, or put up menus, it's a huge nuisance to wait for the redraws.
I read a lot of pdf's and so I'm interested in an e-ink reader. For coding, an e-ink screen would be useful for reference manuals but not for a text editor. I guess it could also be useful to redirect stderr to an e-ink screen, since you'd want error messages to stay up while debugging. When I had a tech support job monitoring which store computers had "phoned home" with daily sales data, an e-ink screen would have been great for that.
I don't know of any e-ink screen that can take a live video or text feed. All the ones I know of are standalone devices that led you read documents which have been downloaded into the device. Some of them can run arbitrary Linux code downloaded to the device, but I don't know if anyone has set that up to accept a text stream and update the screen as each complete line is received.
This is why the dual layer idea intrigues me, if it's possible.
Is this technology still mechanical in nature then?
I mean, pockels cells (used in Q-switching lasers) are extrememly quick. According to Wikipedia, "Switching between no optical rotation and 90° rotation creates a fast shutter capable of "opening" and "closing" in nanoseconds.
Quote:Is this technology still mechanical in nature then?
from my own experience - no. wait for prices to go down.
for me, I brought one thinking of heavy usage, but it turned out otherwise.
GW, Here's a good article on how it works:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_paper
Inside each pixel cell are several small particles of pigment, which have a permanent electrical charge. Applying a voltage to the pixel can cause the particles to bunch up at the top or bottom of the cell. This makes the pixel turn clear or opaque. Once the particles have been moved into position, the voltage can be turned off and the particles stay in place.
"Another limitation is that an imprint of an image may be visible after refreshing parts of the screen. Those imprints are known as "ghost images", and the effect is known as "ghosting". This effect is reminiscent of screen burn-in but, unlike it, is solved after the screen is refreshed several times. Turning every pixel white, then black, then white, helps normalize the contrast of the pixels. This is why several devices with this technology "flash" the entire screen white and black when loading a new image, in order to prevent ghosting from happening."
As far as I know, there are no consumer-priced devices that use lasers in an e-ink display (or that use electrowetting as described in the article).
here is my latest re-review.
Trying to read one of the PDFs on the llresearch.org site, the Law of One, part 1.
This is with the IREX Digital Reader 1000S.
Last month I updated the drivers, software to the latest version. It took a couple of times to do so.
The IREX DR1000S costs Euro 587.39 or US$795.18 at March 22nd 2010. That is exclusive of S&H and necessary protective cover you need to buy.
The review is somewhat positive:
Earlier on, before the firmware update, I got around max. 3 hours reading-time and need to consciously turn-off your device.
Now, the device will turn itself off after 10 minutes of non-activity and last 3 or 4 days of reading-time before a recharge.
Readability:
In low light conditions, it is very readable and reads like paper. Example: you dislike the computer glare and want to read LOO1 as a paper-back. You can read it without the glaring LCD/CRT light.
Usability:
The updated drivers make the device more responsive to clicks and presses. Formerly you had to press hard or not twice (not clear about that since E-ink refreshes after a bit of time)
Battery Life:
- on an average charge, you would get around 14 day's worth of reading time (assuming you read 100 pages each day) before recharging. the device will turn itself off after 15 minutes of inactivity.
File Formats:
- PDF, Text, HTML, JPG, BMP
Would I recommend it?
- Yes: Only if you can afford it and do not wish an IPAD.
- Maybe: The IPAD and Netbook is also tempting.
- No: You have used the iPhone and really tempted to get an iPad, or tight on spending.
Thoughts:
- Ebook reader is useful if you want something easy on your eyes and have lots of material to read (costs aside)
- Most digital content is in Proprietary/Sony, Kindle/Amazon, Secured PDF/B&N. You may find it hard to find fully unlocked PDFs (other than old books) of current books.
The ebook market is changing:
- One of the changes is (of course) the iPad, the combined EBook/Netbook, the combined EBook/MP3 player (Audio-books), the combined touch-screen ebook/mp3 player.
The iPad is somewhat interesting because content for iPad is supposed to be interactive, for example, parts of the book can be 3D (you need 3D glasses), the next page can be a movie, the characters can talk, the book can present itself as a self-test and unlock itself on input of correct answers.