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I have just finished seasons 2 and 3 of Game of Thrones (didn't watch first season). It is a fairly engrossing storyline with superb acting (casting is spot-on) and luscious scenery and production values. Plus it has a killer hook for a theme song.

the essence of what is portrayed, though, is one of feudal culture; which until quite recently (say, last 200 years) was the given norm of what humanity lived under in the last 6000 years (with the exclusion of indigenous cultures).

where 'civilization' spread, it became under the guise and view of the Feudal System.

Civilization, until very recently, was predicated on Feudal Law. Some of the principles of feudal law (where-ever it took root; say in Japan, the Chinese Dynasties, all the kingdoms of Europe, India, etc) were:

* the establishment of a King, a Queen, and a ruling royalty at the top
* the elevation of 'bloodlines' and 'right to rule' as a result
* the establishment of armies to defend the Royal We
* a court of bickering Barons and Lords jostling for power and conniving constantly
* the peasants, the merchants, the servants and the slaves (also the soldiers) who propped up this top heavy system
* a religion or belief system or mythology that was spread so that the status quo was justified, and explained that this was the way it had to be

and as I've said, whether this be in Asia, or Europe, or the South Americas, where 'civilization' took hold, it was formalised under the system of empires and feudalism. It was the only way that a few could control the many; through the threat of sword and death.

- -

Game of Thrones shows such a system in play in the most realistic and confronting way (in my opinion). The 'Players' are those that use their intelligence and social networks to arrange alliances, to blackmail others, to imprison their enemies, or arrange their mass slaughter. Women are used as pawns, and the threat of rape is constantly in the air. Such is the bleakness of constantly living in the first three energy rays. (red, orange, yellow level consciousness).

but the show is amazing. The personalities are vivid; and there is the giddy wonder in how things will progress, what zany 'move' or ploy is next.

Deneris Stormborn (the 'Mother of Dragons') is the one bright light of virtue in the storyline. She represents the principle or ideal of freedom; and that men (and women) are free by birthright, and not meant to slave under the yoke of another.

the magical elements are also fine; and look really good.

and despite the feudal machinations, the many starring characters are very archetypal, and offer a candid portrayal of various elements of the self (the seeking of authentic love, the principle of loyalty vs conscience, the burning fires of revenge, the seeking of position and change).

- -

all in all, after this experience I got a much more visceral sense of the collective karma of this planet, and why sto polarization might have been so so difficult in such societies.

if one is under the constant threat of survival, one is illiterate (literacy is a recent mass phenomena), ideas are not available (the feudal religion specifies what is 'right' to think), and one is toiling in someone's castle or field everyday, then how to make that monumental shift in understanding?

Quote:11.28 Few there are working physically from daybreak to darkness, as you name them, upon your plane who can contemplate the Law of One in a conscious fashion.

that said, the collective humanity only arrived at such a position after repeatedly rejecting more harmonious opportunities to polarise, so in a way, the feudal system was 'deserved' and represented the culmination of many many choices on the part of many many people over a long period of time.

- -

that said, it is also a tv show, and one is free to enjoy it as pure entertainment; although it has the possibility of speaking to deeper principles.

do you like Game of Thrones? what do you get out of it?

peace, and namaste,

plenum
I've never watched the show but i've studied history a fair a bit and so know a bit about what you're talking about. I'd say all main societies that have existed are pretty much the same, but slightly different levels of perception of positon. What we have now isn't so different to feudalism. Instead of royalty and aristocracy we have the bankers and a system of money that regulates everyone. There are still labourers, enforcers, and the men at the top are still pretty much the same. In a way a societal memory complex could perhaps be seen akin to a mind/body/spirit complex with its different levels and rays. Perhaps it was much more obvious in feudal times. There will always be people at different levels of progress, so there will always have to be people to fill each role. What would the point of this density be if everyone was equal?
Yeah HBO did a great job with translating such story to such TV.
*runs away from thread screaming* DONT SPOIL DONT SPOIL DONT SPOIL! BigSmile Also, spoilers in the link.

https://vine.co/v/b3XZMHmxzxh

*runs away from thread screaming* DONT SPOIL DONT SPOIL DONT SPOIL! BigSmile Also, spoilers in the link.

(Yes yes, I realize the irony of having my level of blue ray activity and knowing that the books are already out there yet trying furiously to both see everything and not see the future plotlines of my favorite stories, try not to pay too much attention to it, it hurts the brain... BigSmile)

[Image: 600full-maisie-williams.jpg]

As they say in my Hood, Dem Eyebrows. (What I sense will soon be the main char. Arya Stark...)

Unbound

My girlfriend loves Deneris, she has a picture of her as her cellphone background. In the future we plan to get 3 lizards and name them after her dragons aha
Cute Tanner.
I love this series. I just want to understand why Sean Bean's characters seem to always dies in the first season/part and in lots of the shows he's on.
I hate to be a stereotype about this, but he is "A Good Guy" and they as a rule die early.

Unbound

Maybe he gets bored of being on shows quickly. Tongue
Yeah and he had to die so the Starks could go on their own journey.
(08-26-2013, 03:08 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]My girlfriend loves Deneris, she has a picture of her as her cellphone background. In the future we plan to get 3 lizards and name them after her dragons aha

the mother of lizards BigSmile
We still live in a feudal system, but most people don't realise it. The royalty are the central bankers. The lower nobility are the heads of states and companies. The military class is police and military. The rest are slaves that get to choose their method of serfdom (aka their job). Nothing has really changed since the dawn of civilisation.
Anyone read the books or am I the only one hehe?

Damn you all I want to talk about what happens but I'll spoil it for you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now I know how Ra feels.
(08-27-2013, 12:04 AM)Guardian Wrote: [ -> ]We still live in a feudal system, but most people don't realise it. The royalty are the central bankers. The lower nobility are the heads of states and companies. The military class is police and military. The rest are slaves that get to choose their method of serfdom (aka their job). Nothing has really changed since the dawn of civilisation.

Comedy is still the one true language of dissent, everyone else gets shipped off to love camp at git-mo where they learn about the evils of fear and how they should always love their fellow man with marshmellows. Wait, no? Oh, okay.

But in seriousness, in most civilizations it is the jester and only the jester that has any true freedom from the predetermination of their archtypes. But that would be the fools journey and what not.

(08-26-2013, 06:19 AM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I have just finished seasons 2 and 3 of Game of Thrones (didn't watch first season).

You........skipped season 1?

[Image: Jackie-Chan-WTF-meme-face-70958233396.jpeg]

(08-26-2013, 06:19 AM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]do you like Game of Thrones? what do you get out of it?

Yes, I like it.

And it is mostly just entertainment for me. The world presented is very mysterious and the believable characters really pull you in and make you care what happens.
Fun that you bring this up, I am currently reading A Game of Thrones and I did not even know there was a TV series. So far I think it's a great story, but yes the feudal society depicted is quite something to behold from our current perspective. Smile
(08-27-2013, 08:46 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]Fun that you bring this up, I am currently reading A Game of Thrones and I did not even know there was a TV series. So far I think it's a great story, but yes the feudal society depicted is quite something to behold from our current perspective. Smile

Hard to see the serfs at the bottom of a tower that reaches heaven.

Aloysius

Yeah as far as the feudal depiction goes they don't really focus on the meshwork decentralized decision making and resource flow of medieval/late feudal culture, but that's because they're trying to tell a story, which they do a pretty good job of lol.
I like the show, tyrian (or however you spell it lol) is damn cool
(08-27-2013, 03:16 AM)Not Sure Wrote: [ -> ]But in seriousness, in most civilizations it is the jester and only the jester that has any true freedom from the predetermination of their archtypes. But that would be the fools journey and what not.

It is very cool to read what you said here for me...because lately in life as a musician (which isn't my 'job'...yet!) I have begun to VERY STRONGLY identify with the concept of a jester, and have begun to feel as such when I perform...my act is no different than it used to be, I do no silly antics, but I certainly have begun to feel like a court jester or a benevolent trickster in essence, in spirit. Hah!
Babylon 5 Day of the Dead episode has a good take on jesters and "meaningful things"
Sad that Peter Dinklage won't be playing Tyrion anymore.. thought he would make a good jester but I guess they were looking for a more goofy type of jester
(09-01-2013, 01:57 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]Sad that Peter Dinklage won't be playing Tyrion anymore.. thought he would make a good jester but I guess they were looking for a more goofy type of jester

http://hbowatch.com/peter-dinklage-april-season-four/ Just ruining your joke here ;D

No one makes fun of Tyrion. BigSmile
LMAO no way?! I was watching the comicon thing w/ Peter Dinklage and Martin and they even said he won't be playing it there! Oh thank goodness! Thank you Not Sure!
"Why a medieval peasant got more time off than you"

http://blogs.reuters.com/great-debate/20...-than-you/

Apparently, peasants in the feudal system only worked 150 days a year.
There were several defining characteristics of the era of the classical civilizations of Greece and Rome.

1. Wide land and sea trade routes that allowed goods and people relatively to safely travel far and wide; think Herodotus.
2. Large cities that consumed and produced goods for far and wide; relative freedom for individuals with the means to do so, to choose difference professions.
3. Critically, a concept of citizenship with legal and sometimes political rights; Athenian Democracy, or Rome, which was more progressive in the sense that women were citizens, heavily involved in business and other ventures, allowed everything but hold military or public office.

After it's transition to nominal one man rule, Rome became a Principate. The emperor was called a "First citizen", and intentionally humble title. The senate still held considerable power, and there was still a concept that the Empire was still called "Res Publica", and believed to be for the benefit of the Roman people.

In the West, it began after the third century crisis, a series of disasters that nearly destroyed the Roman empire, and after this there were a series of changes that led to what we now call Medieval culture. ( P.S. Marcus Aurelius was the last of the five good emperors, and the crisis can also arguably be dated to the succession of Commodus.)

The end of large cities, the movement of citizens to rural, landed estates and smaller, walled cities, where they gave up the rights to the landownders (later Lords) and became "colonoi", later called serfs; essentially bonded labor, or a modified form of slavery; certainly a far cry from the citizenship of classical times. The old trade routes declined, good were now produce locally in hereditary professions. Overall imperial power declined and these new, local areas would vie for power.

The "Principate" became the "Dominate", with a more naked absolutism, forcing people to kneel before him and kiss his robe, etc.

---------------------
Rewinding, how did the classical period start? Between 1206 and 1150 BC, some events, it's remarkably unclear what, but something led to the Collapse of the Myceanean Kingdoms, The Hittite Empire, and the New Kingdom in Egypt. Both the story of the destruction of Troy in the Iliad, and the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt, occurred during this collapse and led to the founding of those civilizations, as well as the Founding of Rome.
---------------------

Anyways, it was the rediscovery of the Greek and Roman writings, with concepts of Citizenship, Democracy, Natural Law, in the writings of Cicero and others that would spark the Renaissance and fuel the Enlightenment. Where are we now? I don't know.
(08-26-2013, 06:19 AM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I have just finished seasons 2 and 3 of Game of Thrones (didn't watch first season). It is a fairly engrossing storyline with superb acting (casting is spot-on) and luscious scenery and production values. Plus it has a killer hook for a theme song.

the essence of what is portrayed, though, is one of feudal culture; which until quite recently (say, last 200 years) was the given norm of what humanity lived under in the last 6000 years (with the exclusion of indigenous cultures).

where 'civilization' spread, it became under the guise and view of the Feudal System.

Civilization, until very recently, was predicated on Feudal Law. Some of the principles of feudal law (where-ever it took root; say in Japan, the Chinese Dynasties, all the kingdoms of Europe, India, etc) were:

* the establishment of a King, a Queen, and a ruling royalty at the top
* the elevation of 'bloodlines' and 'right to rule' as a result
* the establishment of armies to defend the Royal We
* a court of bickering Barons and Lords jostling for power and conniving constantly
* the peasants, the merchants, the servants and the slaves (also the soldiers) who propped up this top heavy system
* a religion or belief system or mythology that was spread so that the status quo was justified, and explained that this was the way it had to be

and as I've said, whether this be in Asia, or Europe, or the South Americas, where 'civilization' took hold, it was formalised under the system of empires and feudalism. It was the only way that a few could control the many; through the threat of sword and death.

- -

Game of Thrones shows such a system in play in the most realistic and confronting way (in my opinion). The 'Players' are those that use their intelligence and social networks to arrange alliances, to blackmail others, to imprison their enemies, or arrange their mass slaughter. Women are used as pawns, and the threat of rape is constantly in the air. Such is the bleakness of constantly living in the first three energy rays. (red, orange, yellow level consciousness).

but the show is amazing. The personalities are vivid; and there is the giddy wonder in how things will progress, what zany 'move' or ploy is next.

Deneris Stormborn (the 'Mother of Dragons') is the one bright light of virtue in the storyline. She represents the principle or ideal of freedom; and that men (and women) are free by birthright, and not meant to slave under the yoke of another.

the magical elements are also fine; and look really good.

and despite the feudal machinations, the many starring characters are very archetypal, and offer a candid portrayal of various elements of the self (the seeking of authentic love, the principle of loyalty vs conscience, the burning fires of revenge, the seeking of position and change).

- -

all in all, after this experience I got a much more visceral sense of the collective karma of this planet, and why sto polarization might have been so so difficult in such societies.

if one is under the constant threat of survival, one is illiterate (literacy is a recent mass phenomena), ideas are not available (the feudal religion specifies what is 'right' to think), and one is toiling in someone's castle or field everyday, then how to make that monumental shift in understanding?

Quote:11.28 Few there are working physically from daybreak to darkness, as you name them, upon your plane who can contemplate the Law of One in a conscious fashion.

that said, the collective humanity only arrived at such a position after repeatedly rejecting more harmonious opportunities to polarise, so in a way, the feudal system was 'deserved' and represented the culmination of many many choices on the part of many many people over a long period of time.

- -

that said, it is also a tv show, and one is free to enjoy it as pure entertainment; although it has the possibility of speaking to deeper principles.

do you like Game of Thrones? what do you get out of it?

peace, and namaste,

plenum

A few points without spoiling too much, I hope:

1. Why oh why did you skip season 1!?! It sets the whole stage for the rest of the series and stuff doesn't make any kind of sense without the actions in the first season >.<

2. Daenarys Targaryen is batshit mad. Just like her brother. She just happens to be batshit crazy about the 'righter' things rather than the 'wronger'. Mistake not her ideals of superiority by birthright because she looks at herself like the rightful ruler of their entire planet in order to set everyone free.

3. The mythology, if you read the books (or listen to the tidbits dropped in the series), is very eerie and lays the foundation to why things look like they do with powerful hierarchies ruling in a no-nonsense world.
The planetary movement here is Very interesting; every 1000-2000 year-ish the winter of winters come and is the culling of mankind.
With summers lasting several years and winters being only a year or so mankind tends to forget the bad days rather quickly and grow in numbers and softness.
This time around the turning of the great seasons fall in line with magic seeping back into the world with the birth of dragons. The Children of the Forest are still gone as such but have made themselves heard and also have their players working for them.

I've come to understand the mythology and the greater happenings of the world as a fun analogy to our own but the complex manner of its insertion to translate into ours makes it hard to put into a clear formulated text. Much like tarot it changes depending the person and their personal views of our world and how they in turn interpret their.
None the less I, personally, see many likeness to what we are doing =).

It is less applicable to our medieval times even though it shows how hard it has been for STO to gain a good grasp. This was intended, on the other hand, so no worries.
I find their world and events more applicable in terms of money and structure with the crumbling of institutions and fall of powerful people. The changes and the 'harvest', as some call the great winters are very interesting to make further analogies about ^^.

Sorry if I'm spoiling but I feel too little emphasis have been put upon the mythology itself which is the entire backdrop of this series and determines, ultimately, almost all actions taken or acts as guiding goal.