What main factor makes "physical" incarnation the main preferred realm of existence over the inner planes aka the afterlife? What prevents the inner planes from being as enticing as a place to live in? Especially for negative entities: What satisfaction of control do they get incarnating in physical bodies over staying in the inner planes?
What removes most if not all catalyst from the inner planes?
I think we can spiritually progress only so much in time/space. Sure, I'd love to chill out there for millions of years, but my guide and others I had made preincarnative agreements with sort of push me into incarnating because "that's where the party's at". Life's lessons are hard, and I think we can spiritually progress faster while incarnated because of the veil. I just know that I don't want to come back here in 3D, which I don't think will be a problem since Earth is now 4D magnetized. Were I harvestable, I don't know if I'd go to 4D or if my home is really 5D or 6D, which I resonate to both about the same. But I desire for 7D, so I'd rather be in 6D which is obviously closer to the gateway density.
Someone once asked me what I'd do if I knew I would be perfectly safe, and I answered "jump into a black hole". I didn't know at that time that 7D was a black hole.
Ra also mentions timelessness of an unimaginable nature in 7D, the Law of Foreverness. So it's interesting how you can make it to the next octave if 7D is forever.
I think what removes catalyst in time/space is the fact that we cannot correct any unbalanced actions, so there would be no catalyst to unbalance us. At least that's how I see it.
Hope that made sense. I'm fascinated by the topic.
The question made me think of this quote:
Quote:71.7 I am Ra. The process in space/time of the forgiveness and acceptance is much like that in time/space in that the qualities of the process are analogous. However, while in space/time it is not possible to determine the course of events beyond the incarnation but only to correct present imbalances. In time/space, upon the other hand, it is not possible to correct any unbalanced actions but rather to perceive the imbalances and thusly forgive the self for that which is.
The decisions then are made to set up the possibility/probabilities of correcting these imbalances in what you call future space/time experiences. The advantage of time/space is that of the fluidity of the grand overview. The advantage of space/time is that, working in darkness with a tiny candle, one may correct imbalances.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What main factor makes "physical" incarnation the main preferred realm of existence over the inner planes aka the afterlife?
The physical body provides a particular configuration of mind. It is an orientation of awareness where that which is not yet accepted is placed into the unconscious. This unconscious is then funneled to consciousness based on that which has been accepted, in the form of interpreted experience. In order to feel and to be congruent with experience, the balancing work proceeds.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What prevents the inner planes from being as enticing as a place to live in?
Apparently, the inner-plane vehicles do not provide the range of experience and intensity and compelling enough illusion for optimal progression.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Especially for negative entities: What satisfaction of control do they get incarnating in physical bodies over staying in the inner planes?
They probably desire to progress. Physicality provides a relatively richer set of opportunities for that purpose and they recognize that. Pre-incarnative overview shows that which they desire as an attraction to some experience in the physical.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What removes most if not all catalyst from the inner planes?
The type of body dictates the mind you are working with. The mind provides the opportunity to process experience in a certain manner which calls upon "the core of your being". If the core of your being is recognized in that which you experience, things become less compelling. You are satisfied with this mere recognition (and the feeling it engenders) even without actual acceptance of it.
Maldek entities were actually provided with inner-plane bodies (of a particular nature) so that they could work with some type of illusion, and so some type of progression could be allowed, until physical bodies could be furnished.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What main factor makes "physical" incarnation the main preferred realm of existence over the inner planes aka the afterlife? What prevents the inner planes from being as enticing as a place to live in? Especially for negative entities: What satisfaction of control do they get incarnating in physical bodies over staying in the inner planes?
What removes most if not all catalyst from the inner planes?
Well, the most dynamic trinity for learning is mind/body/spirit complex. See the body as a malleable filter to manage acquisition of experience at an increased rate compared to discarnate entity.
In short it brings intensity to experience, magnifying the lesson through a malleable but somewhat inert filter through which the spirit realms can mirror itself.
There's obviously more to it but I like condensing my point =D
There is still a body provided in the inner planes but it is made out of a finer material, a distorted light. Q'uo has even said the light bodies in the inner planes require maintenance of sorts.
By inner planes, you're referring to time/space, right? Is the mind/body/spirit no longer complex on the other side of the veil?
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What main factor makes "physical" incarnation the main preferred realm of existence over the inner planes aka the afterlife? What prevents the inner planes from being as enticing as a place to live in? Especially for negative entities: What satisfaction of control do they get incarnating in physical bodies over staying in the inner planes?
What removes most if not all catalyst from the inner planes?
First off, for most souls time/space is much preferred and more comfortable and natural place for one's consciousness to exist in. That being said, comfortable though it may be, there is little contrast/catalyst with which to accelerate ones growth. In the absence of aversive stimuli, there is no asking/seeking new and improved conditions. It was similar to how 3rd density was pre-veil. There is little motivation to grow, or expand one's consciousness.
As Ra brought up with the poker game analogy: there is no challenge in time/space. The cards of personality are open to the eye. "The cards would be played correctly, but with no interest."
Perception is everything, and the physical world provides an avenue of interpretation which provides a sort of catalyst that time/space cannot provide. When you experience what you don't want, you become, in that moment, equally clarified as to what you DO want.
(09-08-2013, 11:02 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]There is still a body provided in the inner planes but it is made out of a finer material, a distorted light. Q'uo has even said the light bodies in the inner planes require maintenance of sorts.
The inner plane bodies are "mental bodies".
If you astral project, or mental project etc, you can see that the body is more of a "thought-form" or "mental-emotive" body. It's more of a "symbolic construct". It's kind of interesting, actually, because in space/time, or the "physical world", everything is an arrangement of primal 1st density matter, which is about as close to "unconscious" as you can get.
It is the furthest projection/manifestation of separation/chaos. This "arrangement" of (relatively) unconscious matter "mimics" mind in the form of
brains. This neural structure provides an avenue for the seemingly separated matter to "communicate" in a quasi unified way. In time/space, there is no "matter" per se, and it is all "mind". And in this zone, this "mind" attempts to
mimic matter, through these thought form bodies, giving a quasi tangible interpretation to a vibration of conscious beingness which is
basically intangible in nature.
Anagogy, you are aware that time/space (inner planes) came as a byproduct of the investment of spirit complexes into the bodies of our physical reality? That the physical Logos and its creations preceded the creation of an afterlife?
(09-08-2013, 11:14 AM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]By inner planes, you're referring to time/space, right? Is the mind/body/spirit no longer complex on the other side of the veil?
Inner planes = time/space
Whaaa?
How do you get time/space as occuring 'after' space/time?
They would have to be naturally occurring reciprocals that co-exist simultaneously, I am not sure how you are getting the idea of incarnations existing before non-incarnative experience.
(09-09-2013, 03:40 AM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Whaaa?
How do you get time/space as occuring 'after' space/time?
They would have to be naturally occurring reciprocals that co-exist simultaneously, I am not sure how you are getting the idea of incarnations existing before non-incarnative experience.
They are inherently united. The different perspectives only shift when the first energetic body hatches from a physical one. The first experiences of life were space/time.
In the context of our system, souls are not just randomly spawned. They are a product of physical life being invested by the Sun that can then become disincarnate.
So you believe incarnative existence became a possibility before disincarnate experience? This makes no sense to me, I am not following you aha
Define physical life?
Where are you getting this info? I have always seen bodies as incubators, they are concentrations of energy through which new consciousness is formed, but that essence exists apriori to the recapitulation of the form.
So the Sun has always existed as an incarnate being? The logos is just an incarnate being? I am confused aha
Nothing is predestined entirely. Possibilities are infinite. The Logos did not handcraft a Adam and Eve and send them on their way. The Logos only created chaos while only foreseeing a broad potential for life within the parameters of its elemental seed.
The Suns are only offshoots of the original Logos of this galaxy but this displacement occured by nature, by what we perceive as chaos.
By the same chaos, the Sun invests into physical life on the barren rocks that inevitably become planets. The original intelligences are just as chaotic in their original will and do not begin to form any afterlife until they become fully sentient.
The inner planes are creations created by individual entities like you and me after realizing they can be disincarnate, otherwise incarnation is automatic. These realms had no existence until they were willed. They are not divine, they are not predestined. They are sandboxes and recreation areas created by individuals.
I'm sorry, you lost me when you said the Logos created chaos because my understanding is that the Logos is a focus or concentrating of intelligent infinity in to intelligent energy, which is an ordered action.
Yes, ordered only in its ability to forsee. You need massive dynamic catalyst in order to form a universe by what we could call nature, Tanner. You need the interaction of massive amounts of energy and matter to forge planets and systems of various properties.
There is no god here molding things directly. I'm not that religious to buy into such magical thinking.
So what is the intelligent infinity doing with its intelligence, exactly? Makes little sense to me how an infinity of intelligence bases all of its existences on chaotic interplay. How can any pattern or design be manifest without first the design in potential?
You are doing anything and everything you can to make yourself God. You are allowed to do this as you please, but I admit I am at a loss as to your desires. I think you may be running from something which you have never even taken the time to perceive in itself. You are in a fortress of beliefs and I grant you, it is quite impenetrable. Nothing in, or out.
I do not know exactly what I believe, but I can say that in my personal, existential experience, I have experienced both ordered and chaotic views of the universe and it is wholey ridiculous to me to attempt to treat either as superior or above the other. Were you not striving for equality between all things in your view most recently?
Do not all states exist simultaneously and it is only the kaleiscopic perception of the One which is experiencing itself?
I commend your thoughts, but I am afraid I am not able to follow them.
How can the microcosm exclude the macrocosm?
I can feel your fear of there being anything beyond your understanding, a quaking at the concept of the unknown. Perhaps I am projecting or making things up, but your whole system as I perceive it feels like it is running, trying to escape from something which is seen to be destructive to what you are. I do not know, but it makes my heart hurt.
(09-08-2013, 08:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What main factor makes "physical" incarnation the main preferred realm of existence over the inner planes aka the afterlife? What prevents the inner planes from being as enticing as a place to live in? Especially for negative entities: What satisfaction of control do they get incarnating in physical bodies over staying in the inner planes?
What removes most if not all catalyst from the inner planes?
Far as I can tell, in the inner planes the force of your light pushing outward is too strong because of no resistance so all romantic comedies are "doyouIdo" with nothing more in them, While that is a simplification the base idea is the same.
I know that existence before incarnations exist because it is in my memories. Incarnation in to a physical body is but one experiment the One is engaging in. However, it only became possible when it was realized that all things were disincarnate, and thus the incarnative process, and later the veiling process, became realized as existent. All has always existed, but perception activates the potentials of the One and the Many.
I simply do not follow your logic, I am afraid.
I am only saying so to gain further clarification.
Of course, all imo. I certainly believe that your configuration of the process of consciousness in creative perception is valid, I just do not see the reason to attempt to destroy what you see to be as opposing configurations.
Any existence prior to this solar system's incarnations is likely travelers from other parts of the universe.
Quote:So what is the intelligent infinity doing with its intelligence, exactly? Makes little sense to me how an infinity of intelligence bases all of its existences on chaotic interplay. How can any pattern or design be manifest without first the design in potential?
In evolved patterns, deciding initial elemental and energetic biases that shape life in broad strokes.
The suns work with large strokes, large parameters. The details are formed by the life that is spawned in a natural process.
You ascribe too much human intelligence to the original intelligence which is so united that its abstraction is minimal. You deny it its true nature and give it the persona of a bearded man in the sky.
Additionally, what you perceive as disincarnate is perhaps incarnate entities that had not begun to die.
The "physical" came first.
Such is a fearful assumption of the capabilities of such an intelligence. Is not our own intelligence merely a fractal of the infinite intelligence of the One Infinite Creator? I feel you are putting the cart before the horse, my friend.
Quote:Ra: I am Ra. You must picture the activity within all that is created. The energy is, though finite, quite large compared to the understanding/distortion of your peoples. This is an obvious point well known to your peoples, but little considered.
This energy is intelligent. It is hierarchical. Much as your mind/body/spirit complex dwells within an hierarchy of vehicles and retains, therefore, the shell, or shape, or field, and the intelligence of each ascendingly intelligent or balanced body, so does each atom of such a material as rock. When one can speak to that intelligence, the finite energy of the physical, or chemical, rock/body is put into contact with that infinite power which is resident in the more well-tuned bodies, be they human or rock.
With this connection made, a request may be given. The intelligence of infinite rock-ness communicates to its physical vehicle and that splitting and moving which is desired is then carried out through the displacement of the energy field of rockness from finity to a dimension which we may conveniently call, simply, infinity.
In this way, that which is required is accomplished due to the cooperation of the infinite understanding of the Creator indwelling in the living rock. This is, of course, the mechanism by which many things are accomplished which are not subject to your present means of physical analysis of action at a distance.
Is not our own creative character merely a microcosm to the creativity of the macrocosmic creator? How can something with no personality existent within itself BE all personality? I am afraid I still do not follow you. Simply because a personality is abstract makes it no less a personality. The One has the personality of Infinity.
Also, you are putting words in my mouth and applying concepts to me which I have not expoused. Simply because the only way you can imagine personality is by applying it to a form such as a bearded man does not in any way mean I have done so.
The Creator is all things, I discount nothing from it, exclude nothing from it.
I do not fear the "God" character you create because he does not exist. There is no such deity, individuality, abstraction within that united intelligence.
Objectively, I am still an atheist.
Intelligent energy is only given highly abstract form by entities such as ourselves. We are The Creator. He is not above us for we are him. We shape this reality.
The personality of infinity is silence for every abstraction has some resistance. There is no character, there is no deity that represents infinity.
This "God" character simply doesn't exist.
Also, we ARE the intelligence of the Sun, and of the Galaxy playing out the patterns. Do you not see what I am saying and the irony of our argument? WE are the Creator that is actively molding its creation. You are choosing how to create your creation and I am choosing how to create mine?
Will you stop at nothing until all creations bow to your own?
You feel frantic to me, I do not understand, but I suppose you shall create as you wish to create. It is a shame, the Creator is a wonderful being to get to know.
I find this to be worthy of popcorn.
I can simply do as is natural to me and enjoy my communion with the macrocosm which I have no desire to rob of its own essence. Infinity exists all around and within me in all directions and non-directions, in every form of perception. Why would I ever want to exclude any part of it from my experience? I am the Creator imagining itself, I can perceive the One in any infinite number of ways, there is no right or wrong. We are One.
Also, don't get me wrong, I absolutely agree that the Creator exists in the way you say it does, but to me, that is not the only way. The Creator is true infinity unbound by any limitation of imagination or conscious perception. Nothing is impossible in the Creator.
I will also say, that just as I am the Creator imagining itself, there is a Creator which is imagining itself as me. Everything exists from its own side, every self exists and everything is a self. The One is a self, I am a self, you are a self, rocks are selves, air is a self, trees are selves, the sun is a self, the moon is a self, and so on. We are all other selves to eachother, and yet not one is not themselves!
May I ask you, why do you believe so strongly in chaos? Is it because there is chaos in your own life? Or because it gives you rationale for your power seeking?
I really am trying to understand where you are coming from. I can see the logic, I understand the objective view and perception you are expressing. I see how you can create the universe you are creating. I only ask, "Why?"
I do not ask this only of you, for I ask it to myself daily.
If you wish to study the things which are not of the one that is everything there is don't you need to potentiate that which is not yet in existence to bring it into existence? You know, to potentiate that which is not (yet)? Since we are apparently having an argument about core logics in a way that cant be solved, I thought I'd thrown in a spoon of confusion.
(sits back and watches the chaotic ants of Tanner and Adonai self run around and try to make heads or tails of this comment, or entirely ignore it)
Quote:Vervex: "You ascribe too much human intelligence to the original intelligence which is so united that its abstraction is minimal. You deny it its true nature and give it the persona of a bearded man in the sky." - YOU DO THIS, YOU DO THAT, YOU SAY THIS, YOU DENY, YOU BELIEVE IN A BEARDED MAN. this is very aggressive.
and dictating
I want to give my apologies for my poor choice in tone. Let me say that I really appreciate the mirror you provide here, Tanner. And that I value your words. Let me really put myself in your shoes and relax and I'll respond to your post.
I do hope you see I am sincere and am not trying to discount or in any way reject your perceptions. I am only offering a view from the eyes of another part of the Creator, from self to self.
(09-09-2013, 05:00 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Vervex: "You ascribe too much human intelligence to the original intelligence which is so united that its abstraction is minimal. You deny it its true nature and give it the persona of a bearded man in the sky." - YOU DO THIS, YOU DO THAT, YOU SAY THIS, YOU DENY, YOU BELIEVE IN A BEARDED MAN. this is very aggressive.
and dictating
I want to give my apologies for my poor choice in tone. Let me say that I really appreciate the mirror you provide here, Tanner. And that I value your words. Let me really put myself in your shoes and relax and I'll respond to your post.
Good Girl V
(09-09-2013, 05:00 AM)Not Sure Wrote: [ -> ]If you wish to study the things which are not of the one that is everything there is don't you need to potentiate that which is not yet in existence to bring it into existence? You know, to potentiate that which is not (yet)? Since we are apparently having an argument about core logics in a way that cant be solved, I thought I'd thrown in a spoon of confusion.
(sits back and watches the chaotic ants of Tanner and Adonai self run around and try to make heads or tails of this comment, or entirely ignore it)
What is confusing about this? Such is the mystery, the well of the unknown, which infinity is ever making kinetic from within itself.
imo