I know very little about the Law of Responsibility. Does this mean that the more we know, the more we're held accountable for?
If I were to pierce the veil, would I have to then act upon the knowledge I received? Does karma automatically increase if you become aware of some unbalanced actions you took in a previous life?
A lot of my spiritual experiences have taught me what I am not. But some, like watching stars being created in the sky when I had eyes to see, represent who I am. So maybe I am a Logos at another level. Maybe I'm a Sohar (the great central sun of a Universe) at some higher level. If I became fully aware of being a great central sun to a Universe, am I held responsible for what I do with this knowledge? I'm talking beyond a simple knowing, into really experiencing.
At some level I'm a star. And at a higher level I'm a great central sun, esentially being the whole Universe.
Is Law of Responsibility like Law of Karma? Karma taught me a hard lesson this past weekend.
Capability is responsibility, regardless of knowledge.
Some knowledge systems introduce enough confusion or distraction whereby the connection between ability and possibility is ignored.
Capability being responsibility makes sense. Did not make the connection before. Thank you for presenting it on a level that I could understand. Zen you're pretty good at speaking to the level of understanding of your audience.
So ability determines responsibility. Makes sense. If I were a god, I would have loads of responsibility and potentially karma too.
Know thyself. Know what you are truly capable of and you know the extent of your current power, all power comes with responsibility.
What drives responsibility, or should I say what oversees it? If I have more responsibility than another, what keeps me from abusing that power? Is it karma?
(09-23-2013, 01:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]What drives responsibility, or should I say what oversees it? If I have more responsibility than another, what keeps me from abusing that power? Is it karma?
I think you keep yourself from abusing power. Or, you discover you wish to become negatively polarized because you enjoy abusing power (I say this without condemnation/judgment). It's about true honesty of your inner being. Of course, in order to determine what you are, and what your shadow is, I think requires deep honesty with the self.
Abuse of power comes from not honouring the responsibility of that power, imo. Responsibility is tied, as Zen said, to the capability that stems from one's power. I would say there is a natural balancing mechanism that causes responsibilty to be there, kind of like how "what goes up, must come down". Whenever you move energy or use your power, you cause changes in the reality and the responsibility we have is equal to those changes, both within and without ourselves.
That being said, responsibility isn't just about negativity or karma, but is also very much about positive responsibility as well. For example, you have given yourself the responsibility of loving and taking care of your dog because you have accepted the power of being his human companion and caretaker.
Also, I agree with Xise, nothing stops us from abusing our power, that is our free will, and that is why the Choice must ultimately be made consciously to progress. We eventually become consciously aware enough of our power and the realization that it may be abused and we either take the responsibility of that power and honour it, or we continue to take and use power and continue to abuse it.
One of my teachers once taught me that power comes with the responsibility of its control. He said that control is the ability to use power without causing harm to others. This is not a limiting, restrictive kind of control but one of discipline and responsibility. Thus those who use power without regard for the responsibility connected to it are abusing that power. These are just some of the things I have learned, of course.
(09-23-2013, 01:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]What drives responsibility, or should I say what oversees it?
You do.
(09-23-2013, 01:49 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]If I have more responsibility than another, what keeps me from abusing that power? Is it karma?
Karma doesn't keep you from abuse. What keeps you from abuse is your decisions.
Aside from doing something physically harmful to another, I don't think I have any magical power.
(09-23-2013, 08:02 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]Aside from doing something physically harmful to another, I don't think I have any magical power.
I don't know what you mean.
It's simply putting into action what you've learned..which is also what they're referring to when they say.. "Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good."
They're not suggesting that we have a responsibility to vocally repeat our knowledge to others, but to apply our understandings of unity when dealing with others and how we interpret experience. A simple example would be that many spiritual people have so-called great wisdom, but they're still very judgmental. They're still separating. That doesn't create transformation.
Don't get hung up on such terms. Responsibility comes with capability so that you can't hurt someone, including yourself. After a life we set the terms of the next one, I set my terms, you set yours. Some people call that Karma, and some other people think that it is cause and effect, crime and punishment etc.
If you confront certain difficulties in this life blame your higher self in company with your own self, not some mysterious punishment machine called Karma. Set yourself free of these superstitions, meditate and proceed with making decisions. The more you meditate, the more the decisions will be good ones. Relax and feel the One all around. It's the law!
(09-23-2013, 10:33 PM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]It's simply putting into action what you've learned..which is also what they're referring to when they say.. "Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good."
What they are referring to when they say "Thus, to learn is the same as to teach unless you are not teaching what you are learning; in which case you have done you/they little or no good." is simply that when info is provided, if it's not derived from your own worldview then it doesn't represent your investment. Answers to questions can not be backed up by sincere experience, nor can they be recognized as something from self by something from self.
The transformation may occur because of the reaching from something genuinely made from self, not from anything else.
The Law of Responsibility is completely orthogonal to the method of learning, or to the efficiency of learning. It's just that when awareness increases, so does your participation - you affect that which is included in your awareness for better or worse. Consciousness expands to include more aspects of this condition. The universe does not care if this awareness is confused or overly complex due to inherited convention - once the possibility to speak to intelligence is achieved you're responsible for how it is addressed.
But as you know, what is, isn't always in alignment with our worldview hence the continued catalyst. You're saying change only occurs by putting your thoughts into action, otherwise your opinions have no tangible value and cannot benefit the collective. That's not any different than the general idea of what I originally said, but I was referring to understandings in general in response to catalyst between you and another or the world in general. We're responsible for balancing our perceptions..exercising our understandings.
"..once the possibility to speak to intelligence is achieved you're responsible for how it is addressed." You're referring to the responsibility required to affect change once problems are understood, rather than sitting around complaining, I agree. I don't think that's different than when I spoke of "applying understandings." I'm speaking of affecting consciousness moment by moment and you're referring to addressing real problems..different levels of interpretation of the same thing but both valid points. As you develop more and more the consciousness to understand how the self works and its application to mind and experience, you're responsible for applying those understandings in the moment.
I think when people genuinely grasp something within, it's very often not put into practice in their daily perceptions and so people often aren't teaching what they're learning.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]But as you know, what is, isn't always in alignment with our worldview hence the continued catalyst. You're saying change only occurs by putting your thoughts into action, otherwise your opinions have no tangible value and cannot benefit the collective.
That's not quite what I'm saying. There is a distinct difference in thoughts coming from a learning disposition and those thoughts which are not. You can put any thoughts into action without accountability. You also don't need to put thoughts into action in order to learn.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]That's not any different than the general idea of what I originally said, but I was referring to understandings in general in response to catalyst between you and another or the world in general. We're responsible for balancing our perceptions..exercising our understandings.
Yes, but that responsibility has nothing to do with the "Law of Responsibility". There are no techniques. It's just that when you are aware, regardless of the method used, you are responsible for that presence.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]"..once the possibility to speak to intelligence is achieved you're responsible for how it is addressed." You're referring to the responsibility required to affect change once problems are understood, rather than sitting around complaining, I agree.
No, I'm really not. It's more simple than that. You don't have to understand something at all in order to become responsible for it.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that's different than when I spoke of "applying understandings." I'm speaking of affecting consciousness moment by moment and you're referring to addressing real problems..
Nope I'm not referring to addressing real problems.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]As you develop more and more the consciousness to understand how the self works and its application to mind and experience, you're responsible for applying those understandings in the moment.
Rather, as you develop more and more the consciousness to be able to understand how the self works and its application to the mind and experience, you become responsible for that ability.
(09-24-2013, 10:04 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]I think when people genuinely grasp something within, it's very often not put into practice in their daily perceptions and so people often aren't teaching what they're learning.
I think when people do not genuinely grasp something, but think they do, they often do not bother to take that mere apprehension to comprehension which would solidify it into the worldview. An apprehension can always collect that addictive charge because it indefinitely remains intuitively suggestive of various treats.
(09-24-2013, 10:16 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]You can put any thoughts into action without accountability.
That's contrary to the concept of responsibility. If that were the case there would be no need for catalyst or the evolution of the spirit.
Quote:Yes, but that responsibility has nothing to do with the "Law of Responsibility". There are no techniques. It's just that when you are aware, regardless of the method used, you are responsible for that presence.
I was just giving an example..it doesn't necessarily involve technique (I would say that's true for more advanced understanding though). I still believe what I've said on this topic holds true, especially in relation to healing and the concept of honor/duty. It seems that as a person becomes more aware, they're responsible for putting their learning into practice otherwise there are negative consequences. An example would be how the group's thoughts were becoming things, as catalyst was being dealt to the body.
But I get what you're saying now..that primarily, one has the responsibility to address the nature of experience simply due to awareness. It's not so much related to responding to effects, but that responsibility just is a thing in and of itself. Perhaps it's best described as a duty. Another way of saying it would be the yearning and reaching for the spirit..answering the call.
(09-25-2013, 10:19 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ] (09-24-2013, 10:16 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]You can put any thoughts into action without accountability.
That's contrary to the concept of responsibility. If that were the case there would be no need for catalyst or the evolution of the spirit.
then ALL thoughts are necessarily put into action.
(09-25-2013, 10:19 AM)Icaro Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:Yes, but that responsibility has nothing to do with the "Law of Responsibility". There are no techniques. It's just that when you are aware, regardless of the method used, you are responsible for that presence.
I was just giving an example..it doesn't necessarily involve technique (I would say that's true for more advanced understanding though). I still believe what I've said on this topic holds true, especially in relation to healing and the concept of honor/duty. It seems that as a person becomes more aware, they're responsible for putting their learning into practice otherwise there are negative consequences. An example would be how the group's thoughts were becoming things, as catalyst was being dealt to the body.
But I get what you're saying now..that primarily, one has the responsibility to address the nature of experience simply due to awareness. It's not so much related to responding to effects, but that responsibility just is a thing in and of itself. Perhaps it's best described as a duty. Another way of saying it would be the yearning and reaching for the spirit..answering the call.
if you are here, in this place, the disparity between the conscious and unconscious mind as suggested by the vauge sense of wholeness offered by the spirit is the call to duty.
the way I experience the Law of Responsibility is that I am given everything that I need to progress ... and that the rate of progress is entirely up to me.
for eg, my dreams will consistently point me to either areas or specific understandings I need to implement if I desire to move towards greater balance or clearance. I can either choose to implement them, or be stuck with a nagging sense that something is left undone. Through repeated exposure to this type of catalyst, I automatically value my dreams, no matter the content, and promptly analyse and deconstruct as soon as I awake. It is THE MOST important task upon returning to this plane of consciousness for me; the guide for the coming day.
responsibility also shows itself in meditation and the things revealed there. Images or scenes, similiar to concept complexes conveyed in dream material, reveal themselves with deep, persistent quieting of the mind. They will speak to whatever issues I am considering, and with decoding and implementation are a conscious way of accessing the subconscious; in the same way that dreaming is the fully unconscious way of accessing the unconscious.
this information represents opportunities, and these opportunities are offered as a response to some form of internal calling or seeking. They are offered ... and much like any other offering or gift from a friend, if they are not recognised or acknowledged for what they are, they are less likely to be offered again in the future. Not because of spite, or because there is a grudge, but because if one approach did not work (the offering of opportunities) then another tack is needed (the deprivation of opportunities to lead to a greater seeking, and then consequent appreciation of those opportunities).
responsibility is about correct valuation; about correct identification; about savvy assessment. It is a sharpness or acuity of recognition.
(09-25-2013, 11:19 PM)plenum Wrote: [ -> ]responsibility is about correct valuation; about correct identification; about savvy assessment. It is a sharpness or acuity of recognition.
You may take your understandings, desire, faith, and will and apply it toward "correct valuation" or whatever compelling agency is produced from the sensibilities of your dominant psychological disposition, and call that "responsibility" - but that has nothing to do with the "law of responsibility".
(09-25-2013, 01:16 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]then ALL thoughts are necessarily put into action.
I was referring to speaking your mind involving another and the results, or putting thoughts into motion literally.