Bring4th

Hi again everyone,

I submitted the following question to the L/L contact e-mail address yesterday, the day before they sent out the e-mail about this forum! Well, now that we have this area, I'm going to copy it to everyone here so they can weigh in with their thoughts.

I am relatively new (awakened) to the world of the metaphysical, spiritual... etc. I've noticed thus far that there are a lot of people channeling and making their information available. I don't believe that they are all of the same quality (or brightness, perhaps) though. There are those who predict lots of doom and gloom and I typically disregard it, suspecting that a negative entity is involved. But, there are also sources that are not all doom and gloom oriented, but rather fall in to the gray area (Harvey Grady who channels Monitor, for example. I suspect this is a positive source but he talks to some extent about political conspiracy). In situations like this I usually defer to my own intuition, although this can also be difficult at times. Is there perhaps something in the Q'uo material that would help someone like me filter out misguided sources of information? Failing that, has Q'uo ever been asked about other entities and how to discern positive from negative?

I'm also curious to hear what thoughts you may have on the nature of how channeling comes through and the quality of the message sent. For instance, Carla channeled Ra in a trance state in order to accommodate the narrow band frequency in which Ra communicates. Q'uo does not require this and Carla channels consciously in this case. Does the consciousness of the channeler in any way interfere, or interpret the information coming through? I have heard that the process of conscious channeling involves a fusion of the instrument and the entity's mind, and if so, should I assume that unconscious channeling is more accurate, being more 'direct'?

Thank you very much for your help.

(01-08-2009, 03:20 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Hi again everyone,

I submitted the following question to the L/L contact e-mail address yesterday, the day before they sent out the e-mail about this forum! Well, now that we have this area, I'm going to copy it to everyone here so they can weigh in with their thoughts.

I am relatively new (awakened) to the world of the metaphysical, spiritual... etc. I've noticed thus far that there are a lot of people channeling and making their information available. I don't believe that they are all of the same quality (or brightness, perhaps) though. There are those who predict lots of doom and gloom and I typically disregard it, suspecting that a negative entity is involved. But, there are also sources that are not all doom and gloom oriented, but rather fall in to the gray area (Harvey Grady who channels Monitor, for example. I suspect this is a positive source but he talks to some extent about political conspiracy). In situations like this I usually defer to my own intuition, although this can also be difficult at times. Is there perhaps something in the Q'uo material that would help someone like me filter out misguided sources of information? Failing that, has Q'uo ever been asked about other entities and how to discern positive from negative?

I'm also curious to hear what thoughts you may have on the nature of how channeling comes through and the quality of the message sent. For instance, Carla channeled Ra in a trance state in order to accommodate the narrow band frequency in which Ra communicates. Q'uo does not require this and Carla channels consciously in this case. Does the consciousness of the channeler in any way interfere, or interpret the information coming through? I have heard that the process of conscious channeling involves a fusion of the instrument and the entity's mind, and if so, should I assume that unconscious channeling is more accurate, being more 'direct'?

Thank you very much for your help.

Lavazza, I believe I have a good answer for the first part of your question.

Quote:Is there perhaps something in the Q'uo material that would help someone like me filter out misguided sources of information? Failing that, has Q'uo ever been asked about other entities and how to discern positive from negative?

You bring up a great point about the channeling that is out there already. It is indeed true that there are many sources of channeling that exist, and as you've already noticed, not all of it speaks a resonating truth. Carla often talks about one important aspect of her channeling work that I also wholeheartedly believe is the most important thing one can do before channeling, but is often not done--Challenging the source of the information against the highest truth that you know, such as in the name of Love. It is also importnat to protect yourself in white light or the blessing of the Infinite Creator, and then to ask for the highest vibration information you are personally capable of receiving. Once people begin receiving information that they feel is coming from another source, they miss that most important task of challenging the entity! It seems so many channelers don't care (or are unaware) about qualifying who's on the other line! They just excitedly take in the information, and form a trust with this source of information, who at first may play nice by offering loving comments that help you to feel good. But soon enough, without any challenging of the entity, the channeler is susceptible to having the entity slowly slip in its Service to Self agenda, which slowly detunes the channeler to the point that he or she barely recognizes their own negativity. It's subtle, but it happens. The other negative circumstance that occurs is that you might have a very loving being on the other line, but without challenging who you're talking to each and every time, entities can sometimes pull a "bait and switch" on you, and act like the entity you were just speaking to. In the same manner, they will then detune the messages of love by slipping in their STS information.

When you read materials online, you can generally "feel" whether something is coming through clearly or not. That is probably your best radar.

There's one other complication that I need to throw in here. There are many channelers who call in entities who are of the inner planes. And when this happens, the entities can speak about transient and world events without infringing upon will, because they have already had a human incarnation and are allowed to speak what they know in order to serve. But again, unless that entity is challenged as a Christ conscious entity, your mileage will vary as far as the genuineness of the content.

In those cases where I read messages about love that also incorporate transient information about conspiracy theories, I simply move on. There are far too many sources of information out there that don't water down the message of love with earth events. I don't need to get wrapped up in fear for no reason, right?


Now regarding your second question.. You are right.. Conscious channeling can introduce more "noise" into the mix because the human intstrument has to interpret the thoughts that are coming to mind in conscious channeling. When Carla did her trance channeling, the entity had used Carla's body while Carla "stood by" waiting to get back in when the session was done. This means that Ra was speaking through her directly, and Carla did not have to interpret the message coming through. But as I said above, the great thing is that if you challenge your sources when you channel consciously, you are bound to get messages of love that are just as pure as one who is trance channeling. Because the channeler is tuned to love, and the entity giving information is tuned to love.

Hope that helps!
Steve

Thank you Steve, for sharing your thoughts. I love hearing about how others think on these matters. I think you raise an excellent point about how entities can slip through the back door, so to speak, and replace with entity that you think you're communicating with. It can get pretty confusing, which merits the extreme caution. There's yet another channeler that I've read who has successfully predicted earthquakes which would seem to earn them credibility. However there is a vast amount of other things that have not come to pass as predicted. I presume that this was just due to the future being not set, i.e. ever changing possibilities. But who can say for sure, it may easily just be a negative agenda. I'm still not quite sure how I think about those sources, but one thing I can say for sure now is that any "literal" or earthly / material predictions that I hear about I will certainly take with a critical eye. I agree that it would make the most sense for the philosophical and spiritual information to have the most truth. And I daresay the most important for us to hear.

I'm very happy to hear that Carla screens every session with a prayer and challenge for the entity to pass. Whether there is interpretation or not, this is enough to satisfy me. My question actually stems from something I read by David Wilcock, where he was making the argument about the transition from 3rd to 4th density as being instantaneous (instead of gradual). He was addressing the fact that that idea was dismissed in the Q'uo sessions, and his response was that Carla herself has always been against the notion of such a fast shift. So in effect he was saying that we shouldn't hold the Q'uo material on the same level as the Ra material because of the way those two entities are channeled. But, using my 'radar' intuition, I don't feel that he's quite right about that. The information 'feels' genuine and undistorted. But even so, on a purely logical basis I am willing to accept that we are hearing the information with the words that she chooses to use, but I can't believe that Q'uo would continue the transmission if he/she/they were bearing witness to such a large distortion of their meaning.

(01-08-2009, 11:02 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]...My question actually stems from something I read by David Wilcock, where he was making the argument about the transition from 3rd to 4th density as being instantaneous (instead of gradual). He was addressing the fact that that idea was dismissed in the Q'uo sessions, and his response was that Carla herself has always been against the notion of such a fast shift. So in effect he was saying that we shouldn't hold the Q'uo material on the same level as the Ra material because of the way those two entities are channeled. But, using my 'radar' intuition, I don't feel that he's quite right about that. The information 'feels' genuine and undistorted. But even so, on a purely logical basis I am willing to accept that we are hearing the information with the words that she chooses to use, but I can't believe that Q'uo would continue the transmission if he/she/they were bearing witness to such a large distortion of their meaning.

Since the LOO sessions did not explicitly say that there would be an instantaneous shift, and there have not been any other sessions by anyone (that I'm aware of) with the same sort of configuration as the LOO sessions (in terms of how the channel was tuned), then on what basis would DW's assessment be more accurate than the Q'uo readings?

In other words, since DW is evidently questioning the clarity of the Q'uo sessions, does he offer other material that he considers more clear? If so, on what basis?

I haven't kept up with his work lately, so I really can't comment much on his views.

But, regarding the Q'uo sessions, I too feel a resonance with them; and, rather than considering them distorted, my perception is that Carla is even more finely tuned to the transmission than before; hence, the smoothness of the delivery.

This also brings up another point: Isn't Carla a scholar of the LOO just like the rest of us? Why would she be coloring the info regarding the shift, if it were absolutely clear in the LOO?

I don't see it as a case of "Q'uo vs Ra" or "gradual vs sudden" at all. The info seems to flow seamlessly from the LOO to the Q'uo sessions...with enhancements and updates. Any discrepancies are not because of opposing views, but because of narrowing possibilities/probabilities as 2012 approaches.

(01-08-2009, 11:02 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]...where he was making the argument about the transition from 3rd to 4th density as being instantaneous (instead of gradual). He was addressing the fact that that idea was dismissed in the Q'uo sessions, and his response was that Carla herself has always been against the notion of such a fast shift.

I'm under the impression he believes Carla would bias her answer with Q'uo, based on her long-held beliefs of how society would transition. But that is very hard for me to believe that Carla would selfishly taint the data she receives. Having been in one of Carla's channeling intensives, I feel that there is no room to bias channeled material when truly in the zone of removing the ego in order to receive outside information. Ego and foreign information do not mix. An activated ego would naturally react and challenge the incoming information. You would basically throw yourself "offline" from the session because your conscious would then want to begin evaluating the legitimacy of what the ego just flagged. From my experience, when you are in the zone of receiving, you are free and clear of conscious thought! --THE-- main goal at that point is to articulate the "thought bubbles" that spring to mind.

The bias, if from anywhere, would likely be from STS entities who happened to become part of the channeling, through lack of being challenged as an STO, Christ-conscious being.

Regarding DW's Light Switch Theory. I've talked to a handful of friends about this exact topic, because if true, it opens up questions that haven't been adequately answered. Also, I haven't come across many who feel that an instantaneous shift is imminent, or natural. The common assumption, I find, is that we are moving into an increasingly energized zone of vibration. If you look at our galaxy, there are no "hard walls" that might indicate we would smack head-on into a similar kind of vibrational force, jarring us into some denser vibration. My impression from the LOO series and the Q'uo material is that everything happens in a cycle, a flow of increasing or decreasing intensity, the way nature itself generally changes form and state. And that's how I understand the shift--Gaia moving into a field of energy that becomes increasingly dense, much like how fog wisps in to a bay, becoming denser and denser over space/time.

So the transitional period of ramping up the vibrational intensity also plays nicely with the concept that there would be a multitude of dually-activated entities who need to experience the 3D-to-4D transition in order to help pave the way for procreation of full 4th density entities. In my opinion, full, 4D births would only happen once the last of the 3rd density energy has waned and the last 3rd density entity has died.

It's an interesting topic, for sure! And in no way am I implying that my explanation and belief is right. This is one area that is ripe for speculation.

Steve

Thanks once again, Steve and Dreaming, you've both done yet another fine tag-team response I completely agree with all of your statements. When I strip everything away to it's core foundation, take a walk through a park and ponder the subject, I always come to the conclusion that a shift of this nature would best be served by everyone over the course of hundreds of years, rather than mere minutes. Then you have the Ra and moreover the Q'uo material to back it up. This also ties in to the 'Children and Ascension' thread where a similar train of thought is coming up.

I think for a lot of people, including myself, it's some times hard to shift your idea of an outside authority of information as being the actual authority. I'm working on that! I.e. I am pretty new to the metaphysical and Law of One teachings, meditation, etc... having grown up in a western culture (usa), we're not taught to use our intuition. We're taught to seek truths from outside sources... The news, the government, etc. Of course you know that I don't mean that you should stop seeking information, but simply that there is no emphasis placed on what we can determine as right or wrong, true or false for ourselves. That's why DW's argument wade a pretty big splash with me initially. I think also that the idea of an instant shift for a lot of people is very exciting, which may be responsible for some people not wanting to give up the notion. There are more and more 2012 themed websites starting everyday. But a fast shift is more likely something you'll see in the movies.

However, this leaves the significance of 2012 in some question for me. If the shift is gradual, what does the year mean, or does it mean nothing?

One last note, I can see now, and agree that any STO entity such as Carla would never put her own spin on channeled information, as has been suggested by DW.

(01-09-2009, 05:04 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks once again, Steve and Dreaming, you've both done yet another fine tag-team response I completely agree with all of your statements. When I strip everything away to it's core foundation, take a walk through a park and ponder the subject, I always come to the conclusion that a shift of this nature would best be served by everyone over the course of hundreds of years, rather than mere minutes. Then you have the Ra and moreover the Q'uo material to back it up. This also ties in to the 'Children and Ascension' thread where a similar train of thought is coming up.

I think for a lot of people, including myself, it's some times hard to shift your idea of an outside authority of information as being the actual authority. I'm working on that! I.e. I am pretty new to the metaphysical and Law of One teachings, meditation, etc... having grown up in a western culture (usa), we're not taught to use our intuition. We're taught to seek truths from outside sources... The news, the government, etc. Of course you know that I don't mean that you should stop seeking information, but simply that there is no emphasis placed on what we can determine as right or wrong, true or false for ourselves. That's why DW's argument wade a pretty big splash with me initially. I think also that the idea of an instant shift for a lot of people is very exciting, which may be responsible for some people not wanting to give up the notion. There are more and more 2012 themed websites starting everyday. But a fast shift is more likely something you'll see in the movies.

However, this leaves the significance of 2012 in some question for me. If the shift is gradual, what does the year mean, or does it mean nothing?

One last note, I can see now, and agree that any STO entity such as Carla would never put her own spin on channeled information, as has been suggested by DW.

Thanks for your kind comments!

My understanding regarding the real significance of 2012 is that it is the absolute final date for Harvesting of souls. It's important to remember that it's a harvesting of SOULS, not bodies! And many of those souls have already been harvested, when they left 3D reality via natural 'death.'

Ra stated early on that the Harvest could have occurred sooner, if we had all been ready. Say, for example, if the entire population had been ready to be harvested in, say 1995. They could have harvested us then. But the population was not ready, so they have been delaying the Harvest until the last possible second, in order to maximize the chances for polarization, so that the Harvest would be increased (being that the Harvest was so small).

Evidently, the Harvest has increased since the LOO sessions...Q'uo seems to indicate that they are pleased now instead of worried at the, er, tiny Harvest. But, it's still relatively small, apparently, so they are still giving us as much time as possible. But they cannot go past Winter Solstice 2012, for astrological reasons, evidently. Ra said it was 'like the turning of the clock.' Gaia is being very patient, but there is a deadline by which She will no longer be able to support new 3D entities incarnating.

My interpretation is that, while there will indeed be a transitional period lasting perhaps decades or even centuries, 3D entities won't be able to choose polarity after 2012. So, while there will be many 3D entities still here on Earth after 2012, it will be only those who are harvestable, since the Harvest of souls will have already occurred for those discarnate...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

I love the term used in Q'uo and LOO material. Resonance...I never knew what to call it. To me, resonance manifests physically by sending chills or shivers from the base of my skull across the shoulders, down the backs of my arms and down the spine. This is how I know that whatever material I'm studying has a message for me.

Happens during moments of synchronicity also. I've always kind of considered it as kind of cosmic slap on the back the head...sort of a trans-etheric "Pay Attention!"

But this is how I separate the wheat from the chaff in metaphysical matters. I do find it refreshing though that the Q'uo specifically state to move on if you don't feel a resonance.

Richard

(01-08-2009, 03:20 AM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]I am relatively new (awakened) to the world of the metaphysical, spiritual... etc. I've noticed thus far that there are a lot of people channeling and making their information available. I don't believe that they are all of the same quality (or brightness, perhaps) though. There are those who predict lots of doom and gloom and I typically disregard it, suspecting that a negative entity is involved. But, there are also sources that are not all doom and gloom oriented, but rather fall in to the gray area (Harvey Grady who channels Monitor, for example. I suspect this is a positive source but he talks to some extent about political conspiracy). In situations like this I usually defer to my own intuition, although this can also be difficult at times. Is there perhaps something in the Q'uo material that would help someone like me filter out misguided sources of information? Failing that, has Q'uo ever been asked about other entities and how to discern positive from negative?

One of my very first experiences with channeled material was a book that said the aliens would lift us all up into spaceships in the late 1980s to escape a nuclear war. It was a New Age version of the rapture. I found it very...hokey! This was more than 25 years ago, about a year before I discovered the LOO.

I read lots of stuff after that, and it all seemed to fall into 1 of 6 categories (or a combination of these):

1. Hokey
2. Full of techno-babble without really saying anything (sort of like Star Trek...or worse!)
3. Doom-and-gloom...fear-based
4. Niceties that anyone could have come up with
5. So verbose that the reader thinks "This has GOT to be profound" but upon close inspection, isn't really saying anything
6. Demands something of you, like insisting that you believe a certain way or do a certain thing, or follow a certain leader or belief.

#1 is easy to spot. If it sounds silly...well...there you go.
#2 is easy to spot if you understand the individual terms but they just don't make any sense when put together.
#3 is easy to spot: I just avoid stuff that says a disaster is going to happen on a certain date, or that the lizards are going to take over the Earth. Yikes! I avoid that stuff!
#4 might sound good...but...nothing particularly intriguing or enlightening. In other words, anyone could have written it.
#5 Lots of flowery language, but again...nothing of substance.
#6 A tip-off that it's either mixed or negative polarity...the good guys won't demand anything of you...they'll always respect your free will.

The LOO/Q'uo material, otoh, is rich, deep, complex, and, imo, just so obvious that it's from a higher source. And, it's consistent. And, it resonates.

Ultimately, I would say to pray or meditate if you're not sure about something...in whatever way you seek your own personal guidance. Look for resonance...what is resonance? That deep, inner knowing that goes beyond the mere intellect...as though you were remembering something you already knew but had forgotten.

And, most importantly of all, look for a resonance of love and respect...and then see if it's something that is useful to you. If it's not useful right now, discard it or file it away for possible future reference. And if it evokes fear in you, I would suggest avoiding it.

Those are just some ideas...I hope you find something useful here! (and if not, just discard! )

Discarded. Just kidding!

I fully agree with you on the above points. And yeah, meditation / listening to your higher self has got to be the best way to determine these things, if our common sensibilities don't tell us by themselves. I like the concept of intuition being just remembering something you already knew. Our over-souls or higher selves are at this point, after roughly 75k years of incarnation quite wise and well experienced. So this makes a lot of sense to me.

I also, Richard, I really like the bio-feedback system you've honed in to. I don't get the goose-bumps myself, but I do get sort of a mental 'ah ha!' where what I'm discovering is very solid every other option sounds silly. I think it was Einstien who said that a shabby theory is one that is made out of wood. It needs to be cut and nailed together, supported with glue and maybe has to have some sort of forgien structure to make it stand up. A good theory on the other hand is one that is carved out of marble. It's solid, polished and beautiful. It doesn't need support because it stands on it's own just fine. And of course it was always in there, you just needed to chisel away the bits of marble you don't need.

My wife and I have been meditating every evening for about ten minutes, for the last month or so. It's amazing how quickly we began seeing results. Even my wife who claimed she didn't feel focused during the sessions has experienced some amazing synchronicities lately, and I've noticed her making some bold decisions that I wouldn't have otherwise expected. Over the last two weeks or so I've been asking my higher self to lead me to only the best information that I can get access to. I stumbled across the L/L archive site shortly after

(01-11-2009, 11:41 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Discarded. Just kidding!

I fully agree with you on the above points. And yeah, meditation / listening to your higher self has got to be the best way to determine these things, if our common sensibilities don't tell us by themselves. I like the concept of intuition being just remembering something you already knew. Our over-souls or higher selves are at this point, after roughly 75k years of incarnation quite wise and well experienced. So this makes a lot of sense to me.

<snip>

My wife and I have been meditating every evening for about ten minutes, for the last month or so. It's amazing how quickly we began seeing results. Even my wife who claimed she didn't feel focused during the sessions has experienced some amazing synchronicities lately, and I've noticed her making some bold decisions that I wouldn't have otherwise expected. Over the last two weeks or so I've been asking my higher self to lead me to only the best information that I can get access to. I stumbled across the L/L archive site shortly after

Yeah, our Higher Selves better be smart, since they're so much older than we are!

Hey that's really cool that you & your wife are meditating together!

Might I also suggest that Ra never said 12/21/2012. Ra said the Harvest would occur in approximately 2011. I do not think it's necessarily the 2012 date that was being referred to, but it could be.

(01-13-2009, 02:10 PM)sos Wrote: [ -> ]Might I also suggest that Ra never said 12/21/2012. Ra said the Harvest would occur in approximately 2011. I do not think it's necessarily the 2012 date that was being referred to, but it could be.

There has been dispute between Winter Solstice 2011 and Winter Solstice 2012.

I just did a search and the only reference to either is this:

Questioner: Am I to understand that the harvest is to occur in the year 2011, or will it be spread out?

Ra: I am Ra. This is an approximation. We have stated we have difficulty with your time/space. This is an appropriate probable/possible time/space nexus for harvest. Those who are not in incarnation at this time will be included in the harvest.

With Q'uo's indication that there will likely be a transitional period, and, therefore, the only relevance to an actual date being a cutoff for incarnating souls to experience 3D for the purpose of choosing, then...to us who are already here, I don't see the date as having all that much significance, except as symbolic, sort of like when we celebrate the new year.

Although, we will surely feel a difference in energies/influences, I would think! Much in the same way as when Aries turns to Taurus...

(01-13-2009, 06:42 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]With Q'uo's indication that there will likely be a transitional period, and, therefore, the only relevance to an actual date being a cutoff for incarnating souls to experience 3D for the purpose of choosing, then...to us who are already here, I don't see the date as having all that much significance, except as symbolic, sort of like when we celebrate the new year.

I'm actually thinking there may be a little more to it than just a symbolic acknowledgment. Don't forget, Q'uo, among other Christ-conscious sources, indicate that our quarantined time line will be merging back to Gaia's natural time line, which is supposedly a lot more influenced by outside sources, both STO and STS. As we move into a more excited energy state and the veil continues to thin out, I wonder if people will begin receiving more "messages" from sources who are able to more easily tune to them. This would then add a ton of new catalyst to the mix, and really tempt those who have been trying to live diligently in STO. Conversely, it will also help those who are 'crystallized' in STO to work on recognizing STS catalyst and further committing to a path of being in service to others. So in my view (which is as good as anyone's, really!), we will simply be offered more catalyst based on a deteriorating veil and more influences from both polarities to challenge our paths.

Steve

(01-16-2009, 03:20 AM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-13-2009, 06:42 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]With Q'uo's indication that there will likely be a transitional period, and, therefore, the only relevance to an actual date being a cutoff for incarnating souls to experience 3D for the purpose of choosing, then...to us who are already here, I don't see the date as having all that much significance, except as symbolic, sort of like when we celebrate the new year.

I'm actually thinking there may be a little more to it than just a symbolic acknowledgment. Don't forget, Q'uo, among other Christ-conscious sources, indicate that our quarantined time line will be merging back to Gaia's natural time line, which is supposedly a lot more influenced by outside sources, both STO and STS. As we move into a more excited energy state and the veil continues to thin out, I wonder if people will begin receiving more "messages" from sources who are able to more easily tune to them. This would then add a ton of new catalyst to the mix, and really tempt those who have been trying to live diligently in STO. Conversely, it will also help those who are 'crystallized' in STO to work on recognizing STS catalyst and further committing to a path of being in service to others. So in my view (which is as good as anyone's, really!), we will simply be offered more catalyst based on a deteriorating veil and more influences from both polarities to challenge our paths.

Steve

Agreed!

To clarify, I didn't mean to diminish the significance of the date, but I was referring to what would be immediately visible on the morning of the Solstice. Are we going to notice a drastic change in our environment that day? Or will it be so gradual that we might not notice anything til a couple of weeks...months...even years...later?

Ahh yes! I forgot to include that in my response! Dang it.. lol My feelings and insights during meditation definitely have me convinced that it's supposed to be more of a gradual process. One that is a natural cycle of birth, or the slow and washing entrance similar to an ocean tide. I can't imagine something unnatural and abrupt as a "light switch" flicking on. But that's just a humble opinion, and one that might be totally personalized if we are moving into this creating our own realities.

Steve

As a follower of the LOO since the mid-80s, an early subscriber to Light/Lines, and a channeler in my own right, I can tell you that the act of conscious channeling is as normal as apple pie -- except someone is speaking/projecting into your mind. Once you get past that startling event, it seems totally normal.

The content of what is being imparted makes or breaks the material, not the manner in which it is received. Notice that vast majority of channeled material is spiritual in nature, or explains the nature of spirituality. You don't see channeled works on "Be a Better Poker Player," or "Have a Better Sex Life," for almost all material deals with our spiritual ascension in some manner.

Never accept channeled material just because its source claims it was channeled. If it doesn't ring true, ignore it. If it rings true, evaluate what it has to say.

Bill Missett
www.awakeningthesoul.info

Several thoughts occur to me on these topics, but before I relate them I want to reiterate the futility of such speculation. Can we know this mystery? I maintain that we cannot, and regardless how many sources are channeled and content compared, summarized, and analyzed, the transition to 4D will be mysterious and wonderful.

Given that caveat, let me indulge, once again, in this gluttony of speculation, hyperbole and assertion. (I have omitted several relevant quotes from LOO in order to be more brief. Please PM me, if you’d like to see them.)

Ra indicated that the basic vibration of the photon has already increased in “quantum fashion”. Thus Ra indicated that the final change in the photonic vibratory level from yellow to green was instantaneous and then resulted in a “gradual upgrading of vibratory levels”. Separate, but flowing from this quantum event, is the more gradual transition of the density from 3D to 4D. With the advent of a true color green photon, however came the environment for dual activated entities to begin incarnating and performing 4D work.

So, we now live on a true color green planet. What we lack is the removal from the planet of (especially) those harvestable 4D negative entities that must move on to continue their evolution and thus allow us a more harmonious environment for increasing 4D positive work. Certainly Earth will not be a 4D Positive planet as long as there are any harvestable 4D Negative entities incarnate. Recall also that it was the disharmony (actually those living outside the Law of One) in our 3D existence that led to our reduction of lifespan from its natural 900 years to its current 90.

So with the removal, somehow, of harvestable 4D negative entities and those living contrary to the Law of One, one could reasonably expect 3D lifespans to increase again, possibly back to several hundred years. I see it as quite possible that this is the difference between the 100 and 700 year estimates Ra states for the transition to 4D positive. I think greater disharmony leads to a quicker transition to 4D through a more catastrophic or instantaneous harvest thereby removing more unharvestable 3D entities. A more harmonious environment would lead to a more protracted harvest and greater time for unharvestable, but positively polarized, 3D entities to make the grade and graduate.

The bottom line is this. Through some vehicle, harvestable negative entities need to be freed of their Earthly bonds, and this certainly must happen before Earth can complete its transition to 4D Positive. Is this, perhaps something with which 2012, or times thereabout deal?

Food for thought,

3D Sunset

(01-16-2009, 02:42 PM)3D Sunset Wrote: [ -> ]So with the removal, somehow, of harvestable 4D negative entities and those living contrary to the Law of One, one could reasonably expect 3D lifespans to increase again, possibly back to several hundred years. I see it as quite possible that this is the difference between the 100 and 700 year estimates Ra states for the transition to 4D positive.

Holy cow.. That's the ticket! I never understood why the transition would take the 100-700 year span that Ra suggested. I had often pondered it was because it covered the length of time for "traditional" 3rd density beings to die, in addition to dual-activated bodies dying who still contained partial 3D energy bodies. Then I thought perhaps medical advances in longevity are observably characteristic to beings who are at our stage of development, and Ra was simply factoring that into the equation. But 3D sunset's examples are entirely more natural and more closely associated with the true reason for why our lifespans used to be so much longer.

I had asked Carla about the 4D transition in her first chat, and she seemed to agree that Gaia would become a true 4D entity once the last of the 3D energy dissipates from the planet through the course of 3D entity death.

Thanks for the great thoughts!
Steve

(01-09-2009, 06:33 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ][quote='Lavazza' pid='488' dateline='1231535062']
Gaia is being very patient, but there is a deadline by which She will no longer be able to support new 3D entities incarnating.

My interpretation is that, while there will indeed be a transitional period lasting perhaps decades or even centuries, 3D entities won't be able to choose polarity after 2012. So, while there will be many 3D entities still here on Earth after 2012, it will be only those who are harvestable, since the Harvest of souls will have already occurred for those discarnate...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

Good Greetings All:
Agreed! Heartily!
--fairyfarmgirl

(01-09-2009, 06:33 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

DreamingPeace, you mentioned that the only souls remaining on Earth are ones who are choosing to help with the healing of Gaia. If I'm not mistaken, there are still many STS individuals trying to graduate as well, and my guess is they are not interested in helping people or the planet... So I imagine they will be with us past 2012, working as hard as we are, but in different directions. Does this seem to be a little more accurate?

Take care,
Steve

(01-16-2009, 05:34 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-09-2009, 06:33 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

DreamingPeace, you mentioned that the only souls remaining on Earth are ones who are choosing to help with the healing of Gaia. If I'm not mistaken, there are still many STS individuals trying to graduate as well, and my guess is they are not interested in helping people or the planet... So I imagine they will be with us past 2012, working as hard as we are, but in different directions. Does this seem to be a little more accurate?

Take care,
Steve

Well, since no more souls will be incarnating for the purpose of doing 3D work, then the only STS souls still here will eventually exit their 3D vehicles and be transported elsewhere. So for awhile yet, during the transition, yes, we have a mix, but if I'm understanding Q'uo correctly, it can't last any longer than a normal lifespan for the youngest STS babies. And even that is questionable, in the sense that, if the quarantine is lifted, will the STS entities be able to stay? I'd think that they won't be able to withstand the vibration.

I know you said that the quarantine ensured a certain amount of immunity from STS influence, meaning that once the quarantine is lifted, there could be MORE STS influence, but I interpreted that to mean while in 3D. Since the 4D negatives won't be here once we're fully 4D, since Gaia is 4D positive, then I don't see how they could still be here after we rejoin the original time-lateral.

But maybe I'm missing something...?

From what I understand, the STS folks will die off naturally, which means today's babies would still be present after 2012.

As far as rejoining the time lateral, my understanding is that there will not be a significant vibration change. The whole idea of the time line was to offer us more space to handle less intense catalyst, still arriving at the same lessons learned. However, the time lines still need to meet at the same point of space/time in order to be sync'd up. This would mean the vibration would also need to be the same, or else we would experience that "light switch" effect where suddenly everything changes as we are forced into a higher vibration. You might recall from other threads about the transition that there is some reason to believe the transition will be gradual across that 100-700 year period, which would allow the vibrations of the planet to gradually accommodate the shrinking 3D energies and emerging 4D energies from the galactic space of higher vibration that we are entering. Our alternative time line and the natural Gaia time line are entering into the new galactic space together, so that is how I am rationalizing that there would be minimal change.

An interesting side bar... Q'uo had indicated that if we had not lightened ourselves and the planet to the extend we have so far, that our alternative time line and the natural time line would indeed be incompatible, which is part of why there was the possible nexus of there being a pole shift in the 80s. Since we avoided that, and since we have been exponentially lightening ourselves, the threat of that abrupt energy change rippling through Gaia seems to have been mitigated.

Where the heck am I going with all this... oh! hehe So to comment on your suggestion that 4D STS would not be here during the time line merge, I would venture to say that it would be no different of an experience for them than it would be for the STO entity. Like 3D STO, the 3D STS would live out his/her life, and any current 3D/4D dual-activated offspring would continue through the transition as well, but not being able to decide its polarity any longer. Once on our natural time line, the STS influences will not be buffered like they were on the alternative time line, and therefore STS beings may find catalyst to help them further "hone their edge," as Ra puts it.

Ok, wake up everyone, I'm done rambling..

Steve

(01-16-2009, 05:54 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-16-2009, 05:34 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-09-2009, 06:33 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

DreamingPeace, you mentioned that the only souls remaining on Earth are ones who are choosing to help with the healing of Gaia. If I'm not mistaken, there are still many STS individuals trying to graduate as well, and my guess is they are not interested in helping people or the planet... So I imagine they will be with us past 2012, working as hard as we are, but in different directions. Does this seem to be a little more accurate?

Take care,
Steve

Well, since no more souls will be incarnating for the purpose of doing 3D work, then the only STS souls still here will eventually exit their 3D vehicles and be transported elsewhere. So for awhile yet, during the transition, yes, we have a mix, but if I'm understanding Q'uo correctly, it can't last any longer than a normal lifespan for the youngest STS babies. And even that is questionable, in the sense that, if the quarantine is lifted, will the STS entities be able to stay? I'd think that they won't be able to withstand the vibration.

I know you said that the quarantine ensured a certain amount of immunity from STS influence, meaning that once the quarantine is lifted, there could be MORE STS influence, but I interpreted that to mean while in 3D. Since the 4D negatives won't be here once we're fully 4D, since Gaia is 4D positive, then I don't see how they could still be here after we rejoin the original time-lateral.

But maybe I'm missing something...?

(01-08-2009, 11:02 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]My question actually stems from something I read by David Wilcock, where he was making the argument about the transition from 3rd to 4th density as being instantaneous (instead of gradual). He was addressing the fact that that idea was dismissed in the Q'uo sessions, and his response was that Carla herself has always been against the notion of such a fast shift.

First, let me apologize for how late this response is to the quoted statement and I know their has been several very good replies already. However, it was just one of those things that struck me at the time and this is the first opportunity I have had to get back to posting a comment.

Every time I encounter these types of questions I am reminded of the admonishments that our brothers who walk the Red Road give in these kinds of situations. The elders wonderfully remind all that if take and place an object in the middle of a circle of observers and ask each to describe the object you will get as many different descriptions as there are people in the circle. Each person is not incorrect as they readily describe exactly what they see. It is just that they cannot see the whole picture. If one of the members of the circle were to take only their view and try to expand it into a description of the whole then the object they would describe would not be the object in the center of the circle.

What does this have to do with the issue of the view of DW and the view of Q'uo only that perhaps one or both are viewing the event from a different perspective. If one considers that what may be happening in 2012 is merely the completion of a spiraling increase in consciousness energy then, yes, one may be able to project out and see an "instantaneous" event. An influx of increased energy to elevate consciousness could definitely happen in what would appear to be a sudden event. Afterwards there would be noticeable increases in the application of higher levels of consciousness if one were able to be aware of what to observe. Therefore, DW could be right, they just might be some event in 2012 that could be considered to be a sudden event.

On the other hand, if you were expecting there was to be some kind of sudden disappearance of the 3D physical body and the sudden engagement of a 4D energetic body, for those who are SG fans similar to the elevation of the ancients or Wraiths, then no according to Ra and other reliable sources that will not happen. RA clearly states that the only way to be harvested from 3D to 4D is for a consciousness to experience what we refer to as death. I believe I recall Ra also stating that it would take from 100 to 700 years before the physical planet would be fully populated by 4D entities.

If you consider that at some point in the progression there has to come the time when no further consciousnesses seeking harvestability in 3D would be allowed to incarnate. Has that point been reached? Based on "reading between the lines" I don't think so. RA did state that there were SOME who were incarnating with dual activation but that implies that others were incarnating with simple 3D activation.

The only way to know for sure that I can see would be to use a method similar to what Don used--make a statement, then ask if it is correct and if not would the answerer please expound on what portions were not correct. An example, the marker of 2012 is the point in which inflowing energy becomes capable of generating and maintaining 4D consciousness is achieved. The Harvest and harvestability is related but separate from this marker. Is this statement correct and if not, would you please expound on what portion of it is incorrect.

So to me the what I find as being various different opinions of the importance of 2012 is nothing more than merely the vantage point from which they are viewing the object in the center of the circle. One last small tidbit, when I had the honor and pleasure of attending a small gathering with Don Alejandro, he emphasized several times that too much is being made of the 2012 date. As a 13th generation Maya elder he stated that we should be more concerned with learning to live as one than whether a particular date has importance or not.

Just wanted to share a view from a different position in the circle.

(01-16-2009, 06:38 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]From what I understand, the STS folks will die off naturally, which means today's babies would still be present after 2012.

As far as rejoining the time lateral, my understanding is that there will not be a significant vibration change. The whole idea of the time line was to offer us more space to handle less intense catalyst, still arriving at the same lessons learned. However, the time lines still need to meet at the same point of space/time in order to be sync'd up. This would mean the vibration would also need to be the same, or else we would experience that "light switch" effect where suddenly everything changes as we are forced into a higher vibration. You might recall from other threads about the transition that there is some reason to believe the transition will be gradual across that 100-700 year period, which would allow the vibrations of the planet to gradually accommodate the shrinking 3D energies and emerging 4D energies from the galactic space of higher vibration that we are entering. Our alternative time line and the natural Gaia time line are entering into the new galactic space together, so that is how I am rationalizing that there would be minimal change.

An interesting side bar... Q'uo had indicated that if we had not lightened ourselves and the planet to the extend we have so far, that our alternative time line and the natural time line would indeed be incompatible, which is part of why there was the possible nexus of there being a pole shift in the 80s. Since we avoided that, and since we have been exponentially lightening ourselves, the threat of that abrupt energy change rippling through Gaia seems to have been mitigated.

Where the heck am I going with all this... oh! hehe So to comment on your suggestion that 4D STS would not be here during the time line merge, I would venture to say that it would be no different of an experience for them than it would be for the STO entity. Like 3D STO, the 3D STS would live out his/her life, and any current 3D/4D dual-activated offspring would continue through the transition as well, but not being able to decide its polarity any longer. Once on our natural time line, the STS influences will not be buffered like they were on the alternative time line, and therefore STS beings may find catalyst to help them further "hone their edge," as Ra puts it.

Ok, wake up everyone, I'm done rambling..

Steve

(01-16-2009, 05:54 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-16-2009, 05:34 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]

(01-09-2009, 06:33 PM)DreamingPeace Wrote: [ -> ]...and the only souls remaining on Earth will be the dual-activated entities and those who are clearly harvestable and choosing to stay and help with the healing of Gaia.

That's my take on it...what does everyone else think?

DreamingPeace, you mentioned that the only souls remaining on Earth are ones who are choosing to help with the healing of Gaia. If I'm not mistaken, there are still many STS individuals trying to graduate as well, and my guess is they are not interested in helping people or the planet... So I imagine they will be with us past 2012, working as hard as we are, but in different directions. Does this seem to be a little more accurate?

Take care,
Steve

Well, since no more souls will be incarnating for the purpose of doing 3D work, then the only STS souls still here will eventually exit their 3D vehicles and be transported elsewhere. So for awhile yet, during the transition, yes, we have a mix, but if I'm understanding Q'uo correctly, it can't last any longer than a normal lifespan for the youngest STS babies. And even that is questionable, in the sense that, if the quarantine is lifted, will the STS entities be able to stay? I'd think that they won't be able to withstand the vibration.

I know you said that the quarantine ensured a certain amount of immunity from STS influence, meaning that once the quarantine is lifted, there could be MORE STS influence, but I interpreted that to mean while in 3D. Since the 4D negatives won't be here once we're fully 4D, since Gaia is 4D positive, then I don't see how they could still be here after we rejoin the original time-lateral.

But maybe I'm missing something...?

I greatly enjoy this speculation and projection of the probabilities of what is to be. Although this is not the density of understanding it surely should not be the density of not knowing as that is two different things.

With all the discussion about the lifting of the quarantine and the conjunction of the original and alternate time lines a question has arisen. In the Ra materials there is a reference to STS, for the lack of a better term, societies attempting to dominate STO societies. RA even explained that 5D has to enlist the assistance of 4D to fight their battles. If that is the case, once quarantine is lifted will not Earth and it's entities be open to become the target of some STS group?

There are a myriad of consequences of having the quarantine lifted that has seemed to float through my consciousness. Just thought that I would check to see if anyone has any thoughts on this issue.

(01-17-2009, 01:25 PM)BrotherAsa Wrote: [ -> ]With all the discussion about the lifting of the quarantine and the conjunction of the original and alternate time lines a question has arisen. In the Ra materials there is a reference to STS, for the lack of a better term, societies attempting to dominate STO societies. RA even explained that 5D has to enlist the assistance of 4D to fight their battles. If that is the case, once quarantine is lifted will not Earth and it's entities be open to become the target of some STS group?

I don't remember if it was Q'uo or Ra (I think it was Ra), but I remember them saying something about a new 4D SMC being separated from the STS, so that they could focus on learning how to be a SMC. So it seems we'll be given a time period to get strong as an SMC before having to deal with that stuff. That's what I remember anyway...if anyone has the reference to this session, please let us know!

Hi again everyone,

Great comments in this thread so far. I had a thought today about channeling, and was wondering if it's in any way similar to what is called 'speaking in tongues' in the Christian religion. In this scenario an individual is used as an instrument by god to deliver a message in a foreign language like Hebrew, usually the language is one that the person speaking doesn't even know. So in a way this is basically channeling, but I haven't heard much discussion about this specific type of channeling. Any thoughts on this?

much appreciated, as always.

Speaking in tongues, in my opinion, was definitely trance channeling! Carla would have been labeled the same if she were around when people were calling it that. ;-)

Steve

(01-17-2009, 07:45 PM)Lavazza Wrote: [ -> ]Hi again everyone,

Great comments in this thread so far. I had a thought today about channeling, and was wondering if it's in any way similar to what is called 'speaking in tongues' in the Christian religion. In this scenario an individual is used as an instrument by god to deliver a message in a foreign language like Hebrew, usually the language is one that the person speaking doesn't even know. So in a way this is basically channeling, but I haven't heard much discussion about this specific type of channeling. Any thoughts on this?

much appreciated, as always.

(01-17-2009, 07:52 PM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: [ -> ]Speaking in tongues, in my opinion, was definitely trance channeling!

I've been around speaking in tongues a lot and I agree that it's definitely channeling. (Although I never have figured out exactly who they're channeling!)

When I was a born-again Christian, I prayed and prayed for the 'gift of tongues' but it never happened. But I did start getting psychic visions instead!

Hmmmm... It seems obvious that during the past few centuries a few important things happened: opportunities for both STS or STO polarization!
Some examples are: the urge for domination, corruption and opportunities for self-pleasure (STS) increased as we approached 2012; the opportunities for STO work have also increase, since our society had grown to a very complex state, providing many different ways of living, travelling and contacting people. There were many new intentional communities established in the sixties and new ways of having honesty and freedom in relationships. So, I guess there had been much MORE opportunities and catalysts, as we approach 2012, for both STS or STO polarization. This is fairly obvious.
The same thing rings true for an increased contact of ET inteliggences to Earth inhabitants, either by pure inspiration, guidance, channeling or the STS contacts.

It seems that this is the HARVEST, the POLARIZATION.
Then, it also seems that more gradually the vibrations have been increasing. We had an approaching unstable 20th century but perhaps it is more harmonious now.
It could be finnaly be the transition 3D to 4D as we approach 2012 and the decades following a gradual transition, for our society.

There it still remains two things to be manifested fully:
1- removal of old 3D and STS patterns of thinking and 2- further association between STO entities for true STO work:
Since the sixties we have seen much of this (and even before with the end of slavery, french and american revolutions, new political ideals, new ecological ideals, minorities having rights, the emancipation of women, the internet), but the service that we provide is still some to STS goverments, so I guess this economic-social-ecological crisis is just one of the last catalysts before the 2012 turning point! It makes much sense to me. It provides a further opportunity for graduation and polarization, and increase in vibration. Therefore the Earth changes do not need to be radical, at least when society seems to be more radically transformating. But I still thing these Earth change will still happen, to some degree, to provide full catalyst for association between STO entities. Hard times such a depression provide that chance. STS and 3D old patterns crumble and STO opportunities abound more easily.
If 2012 does not bring such dramatic events, or if society does not change that much, I still think 2012 is still a turning point with much activity around the date (at least the economic depression and the powerful catalyst it provides, and a changein societal structures, and thus opportunities for STO work) Curiously, astrologically, in 2011 both Uranus enters Aries initially a new cycle of change and radical turning points (as I have stated for the 1760s, 1848 and 1930s periods of awareness for new rights and societal reorganization), and Neptune enters Pisces (new spiritual ideals), Pluto cycles also correlate with these things (I do not want to go much into detail herein, but you see the point, in how much turns around the next few years) Then, I would see, depending in how much our peoples change between 2010 and 2025, a century ahead with not so much sudden change but more gradual change, permitting the true STO work, in a gradual way, in both a pragmatic way, structural (communities, families, cities) and spiritual (more connection to green ray, love, union). This would be the start of our memory complex formation. 4D would manifest then, in this transition 100-700 years period, by a gradual vibrational increase of the peoples.
I think by 2100 and 2200 much will have change! How much of our society remains is the unknown answer. But mostly only STO aspects should remain, even if physical. I do not see any puff into the air because, you know, 4D is already here. You can meditate or calm down and sometimes you enter it for a few seconds. It happens to me when sometimes see powerful storms, those small breakthroughts of something else...
You can trip mushrooms (not so recommended) and you see it even more. You have lucid dreams you see it here. You the reality is already it in an astral way. I think, as people during the next centuties fully realize and access to this, the consensus will be more and more of that. We would just became more aware of that.
But I dont reject the possibility of something happening around 2011 or 2012 that would bring many of us closer to that. Maybe a few, maybe many, maybe widespread (but that would cause chaos to many unprepared). I think things would only get much more sensitive and emotional, so unprepared would crush or awake, and the rest would increase more their vibrations.
I also foresee some really powerful STO inspirational entities incarnating at this time and therefore providing even more catalyst, such as Christ did 2000 years ago. Seth said this once.
I based much of this in my intuition, logic, some astrology, and some dream visions. It all makes sense now.
:idea:

I am sorry for the really long text!

The big question now is: how can we provide much STO opportunities for work, service and association, transcending our current societal structures (besides a more positive approach to family, and without the need for include a head-jump into intentional communities, such as for us many whom live in cities, and in relative isolation to our neighboours).


Maybe some of you can ask Carla what Ra/Quo thinks of the catalyst that this "2009 crisis" presents towards STO work. And if after 2012 3D/4D dual bodies will remain working on Earth, together with 3D entities. I wonder that many will remain fully alive after 2012 and fully capable of giving birth, but maybe children will be more and more or only dual activated. Maybe the gross of Earth has moved towards a STO state by 2012 but the transition is really gradual after then.