So, as I grow as a seeker and potentially gain in knowledge and a smidge of wisdom every now and then, I increasingly run into the dissatisfaction with this illusion.
Someone will say something and I will just explain how I view it and they will usually accept that whatever I say is true. This leads to a deep restlessness deep in my soul where I want to run around shouting: "Wake up! Wake up! All of this is so simple!" I want people in my life that challenge MY thinking and lead me on intellectual roller-coaster rides. It may just be that I tune out whenever other people are talking, but they take SO LONG to explain simple things.
This is such a recurring theme recently in my life that I've almost stopped being interested in meeting spiritual people. There's so much 'extra' stuff that people have added to their view of reality, when in reality the essentials are quite straightforward.
The most frustrating part is that I lived in fear and isolation for so long that I find myself becoming very stressed out and afraid around people that I've met recently that I have shared myself around. I'd cut off my friends and family from who I truly felt I was, and now when I share my 'true' self with others I feel unaccepted, fearful, and fake.
So, I'm not really depressed. I'm simply observing the rules of the game and looking at my pieces and saying to myself: "Well, this is a pretty silly situation I find myself in. Why can't I just start over?"
I guess overall, I feel very top-heavy. I've plumbed the depths of information relating to the fundamentals of reality without first balancing the lower rays. I was simply insatiably curious and felt strongly that I had a 'mission'. Now I feel like half of me is a wizard, and the other half is a fearful little child. Merging the two will simply take time, and I'm simply incredibly impatient.
QQ
Could say the same for what you just wrote. Just feelings, they come and go and grow and evolve and dissolve. Words will never satisfy, words are in the past by nature. The wizard and child merging, the experience of words without talking.
What if you went to a local cafe and ordered a drink to your liking. Imagine sitting down and closing your eyes while you slowly just drink and enjoy your beverage. Imagine this was all you were focused on doing. If all you were focused on in that moment was the enjoyment of your favorite drink, especially with your eyes closed, you'd most likely find yourself opening your eyes once the drink was done and having to mentally readjust to the fact that you are in public in a cafe...while you were drinking, all that mattered was the taste and the rewarding sensation of your body responding to something which it really enjoys experiencing.
That was a very "down to earth" lower ray experience...do you really think you would have been dissatisfied with this illusion during that experience? In short, why not allow yourself to increase the frequency with which you enjoy very basic and down to earth experiences that have absolutely NOTHING to do with "higher consciousness learning"?
I have a hard time not consciously processing catalyst. All the time. My curiosity is always tugging at my attention. What about this, what if this, think about this, try calling this person, did you do this, etc.
The problem is, is that there is learning done by the mind through this. Unfortunately as it is not learned in the moment, much of it requires conscious control to utilize putting a very large burden on the yellow ray. I have a feeling that I'm consciously adding to this 'burden' as I add nearly every social interaction into this cauldron and haven't had the week/month/year to allow much of it to filter down into the deep brain.
My trouble is understanding when catalyst is presented to me, and then how to integrate it. I don't feel like I have a lot of intelligence.
Emotional charge is like a nice alert system to pay attention to. When we have emotional floods our brainz will work to shut it off bc it goes into overload. I guess mindfulness meditation became big bc it can help us to be very aware of self… so if feeling that 'high' one can be very aware of what's emerging and attempt to ground self.
If emotions are flat, body sensations are alternate alert systems.
Sit back, enjoy the story. You made the movie, but that doesn't mean the characters in the movie know what you know. Perhaps it isn't about what you know, but about how you choose to interact. I feel the same as you a lot, and it is mostly because of impatience. I have been impatient with myself, so I can be impatient with others. It takes time, by all means. Much love, brotha.
Or, sit, listen to your heart and your wisdom and let it flow! Aha
I know what you mean, GR. Well, it's not always the case but sometimes I feel exactly the same. It actually made me chuckle at how familiar it seems.
I think patience is indeed a wonderful reminder.
what have your dreams been like lately?
any help there?
I found that if presented with alot of 'slow' interactions where people take forever to explain something, it isn't per se uncomfortable or dissatisfying. It's what you have (or I have) made of it rather than what it really is.
Some people simply are so different that their train of thought or explanations are simply roundabout or more based on creating a setting to experience the information instead of going to the simple core.
Learning to give people the time they need to present their thoughts/ideas for these things will make interactions with people feel more giving and likely the other person will feel less stressed out by the interaction as well.
Since you've been experiencing this for a very long time, maybe there is a lesson still unlearned about patience and/or resting in the moment?
(12-17-2013, 10:47 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]My trouble is understanding when catalyst is presented to me, and then how to integrate it. I don't feel like I have a lot of intelligence.
Believe me, Wolf, if you really don't have a "lot" of intelligence, you have a lot of something(s) else that you can use instead. You are an avid reader of these threads so you know that some posts show a lot of "intelligence" and also show a lacking in one thing or another.
You have posted your share of good insights around here.
Here in 3D, catalysm is like the air we breathe. It's all around. When something triggers a reaction, we react to it. That leads us into experiences that serve the One, which means it serves ourselves. "Integration" just happens. Some of us choose to attempt (or force) conscious integration. That is merely a choice, but not necessary, IMHO.
(12-18-2013, 05:43 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]I found that if presented with alot of 'slow' interactions where people take forever to explain something, it isn't per se uncomfortable or dissatisfying. It's what you have (or I have) made of it rather than what it really is.
Some people simply are so different that their train of thought or explanations are simply roundabout or more based on creating a setting to experience the information instead of going to the simple core.
Learning to give people the time they need to present their thoughts/ideas for these things will make interactions with people feel more giving and likely the other person will feel less stressed out by the interaction as well.
Since you've been experiencing this for a very long time, maybe there is a lesson still unlearned about patience and/or resting in the moment?
That's true, but a lot of people feel that they are being validated as a human being when someone is being dishonest with them and pretending to be interested as they prattle on endlessly. I've begun calling it preaching. People love to think that they are converting someone to their ideas when in actuality they are letting someone else validate them. As you feel worse, they feel better. I've done this with tanner and an getting better at applying it to correct situations.
I simply say: "you're not engaging me as you haven't included me into your conversation at all. May I have a moment to present my perspective? "
(12-17-2013, 09:47 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]So, as I grow as a seeker and potentially gain in knowledge and a smidge of wisdom every now and then, I increasingly run into the dissatisfaction with this illusion.
....
I very much resonate with what you said for prior periods in my life growing up as a major introvert. Many struggle with what you are feeling for their entire lives.
What got me out of the kind of mode you are in was learning how to be a "lighthouse" for those around me, and to not take myself so seriously. When I started to get good at that, I learned better how to accept others and others began wanting to be around me. Thus, much of my fear has gone away. It is a continual lifelong challenge for me though.
If it was easy, anybody could do it. I don't think it's supposed to be easy though.
(12-18-2013, 03:12 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 05:43 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]I found that if presented with alot of 'slow' interactions where people take forever to explain something, it isn't per se uncomfortable or dissatisfying. It's what you have (or I have) made of it rather than what it really is.
Some people simply are so different that their train of thought or explanations are simply roundabout or more based on creating a setting to experience the information instead of going to the simple core.
Learning to give people the time they need to present their thoughts/ideas for these things will make interactions with people feel more giving and likely the other person will feel less stressed out by the interaction as well.
Since you've been experiencing this for a very long time, maybe there is a lesson still unlearned about patience and/or resting in the moment?
That's true, but a lot of people feel that they are being validated as a human being when someone is being dishonest with them and pretending to be interested as they prattle on endlessly. I've begun calling it preaching. People love to think that they are converting someone to their ideas when in actuality they are letting someone else validate them. As you feel worse, they feel better. I've done this with tanner and an getting better at applying it to correct situations.
I simply say: "you're not engaging me as you haven't included me into your conversation at all. May I have a moment to present my perspective? "
I agree with what you are saying, however I would say philosophy has one of the widest spectrums of thought and there are many pathways and trains of thought to follow. Some people like to follow short trains, others like long winding ones.
I think it is good that you are recognizing your interests and what about conversation engages you, that is knowing yourself. I also think it is good that you have interest in seeking those who are more of like mind, that can certainly be beneficial.
My main thought here is that, as you say, the thoughts of others may be so different that they are simply unappealing pathways to take through mind. Yet, I would say it is a profound truth that even though others may take more scenic routes with their descriptions, they are not wrong for doing so, just as you are not wrong for embracing simplicity. Personally, I strive to accomodate both in my thoughts as I feel both are relevant. That is just me, of course.
The descriptions others use don't always work for us, and yes sometimes people are looking for validation, but really, it seems you are too. Perhaps I am projecting, but it seems to me that maybe you find long winded explanations exasperating because you are still attached to the validity of the simple ones. Forgive me if I am incorrect aha
What do you think? Do you feel there is anything which one may gain from the interaction between simplicity and complexity?
(12-18-2013, 04:25 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 03:12 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 05:43 AM)ChickenInSpace Wrote: [ -> ]I found that if presented with alot of 'slow' interactions where people take forever to explain something, it isn't per se uncomfortable or dissatisfying. It's what you have (or I have) made of it rather than what it really is.
Some people simply are so different that their train of thought or explanations are simply roundabout or more based on creating a setting to experience the information instead of going to the simple core.
Learning to give people the time they need to present their thoughts/ideas for these things will make interactions with people feel more giving and likely the other person will feel less stressed out by the interaction as well.
Since you've been experiencing this for a very long time, maybe there is a lesson still unlearned about patience and/or resting in the moment?
That's true, but a lot of people feel that they are being validated as a human being when someone is being dishonest with them and pretending to be interested as they prattle on endlessly. I've begun calling it preaching. People love to think that they are converting someone to their ideas when in actuality they are letting someone else validate them. As you feel worse, they feel better. I've done this with tanner and an getting better at applying it to correct situations.
I simply say: "you're not engaging me as you haven't included me into your conversation at all. May I have a moment to present my perspective? "
I agree with what you are saying, however I would say philosophy has one of the widest spectrums of thought and there are many pathways and trains of thought to follow. Some people like to follow short trains, others like long winding ones.
I think it is good that you are recognizing your interests and what about conversation engages you, that is knowing yourself. I also think it is good that you have interest in seeking those who are more of like mind, that can certainly be beneficial.
My main thought here is that, as you say, the thoughts of others may be so different that they are simply unappealing pathways to take through mind. Yet, I would say it is a profound truth that even though others may take more scenic routes with their descriptions, they are not wrong for doing so, just as you are not wrong for embracing simplicity. Personally, I strive to accomodate both in my thoughts as I feel both are relevant. That is just me, of course.
The descriptions others use don't always work for us, and yes sometimes people are looking for validation, but really, it seems you are too. Perhaps I am projecting, but it seems to me that maybe you find long winded explanations exasperating because you are still attached to the validity of the simple ones. Forgive me if I am incorrect aha
What do you think? Do you feel there is anything which one may gain from the interaction between simplicity and complexity?
I feel it is as simple as math. There are many paths through which you can accomplish a simple thing. Many people will have gotten very good at a complex thought form which gets them to a certain point.
Having no spiritual background at all and largely being exposed to the simplicity of the LOO I can look at their convoluted path to a certain point and simplify, clarify, and broaden their thinking so as to allow them a much more useful tool to apply to their own life. Spiritual people are usually open and aware enough to realize accurate thinking wherever it comes from.
Ah, but what is convolution but distortion relating to distortion? I definitely see your point, but I admit I find it interesting as I believe simplicity can be just as convoluted as complexity, it all depends what you are trying to create.
What I wonder is why the need or desire to be able to offer a 'better tool' renders you without enjoyment of the interaction?
I partly say this out of my own experience. Some of the things that seem so simple to me become convoluted when I try to share them in overly simple terms. It is not necessarily the fact that the concept itself isn't simple, but grasping a concept based on a very simple explanation can sometimes actually just make things more confusing for some people because context has not been built.
Aha Also, as for things being as "simple as math", I would point out that not everyone has their strong suit in math. Math is simple for you or whomever because it is grasped. For other people english and words are simple, but math is not. For others drawing is simple, or singing or doing carpentry is so. Simple is really just a matter of comprehension. Anything is simple once you comprehend it, at least, those are my thoughts on the matter! Aha
what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
True, sometimes the best service is to simply listen! Listening for the other is different than listening for yourself, imo.
Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
(12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
That may be possible yeah.
What's difficult to accept tho?
(12-18-2013, 10:10 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]What's difficult to accept tho?
How about something of which one is not aware or which is blocked by confusion or distraction.
(12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
It's actually very simple. I've been awake for 1 year. I meet people that have been 'awake' for a much longer time (relatively of course), and find that I end up taking the role of teacher when what I really want to be is the student.
(12-19-2013, 12:56 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
It's actually very simple. I've been awake for 1 year. I meet people that have been 'awake' for a much longer time (relatively of course), and find that I end up taking the role of teacher when what I really want to be is the student.
What about becoming more aware of what you want to learn (as "the student"), rather than being concerned with role playing?
(12-19-2013, 01:03 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2013, 12:56 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
It's actually very simple. I've been awake for 1 year. I meet people that have been 'awake' for a much longer time (relatively of course), and find that I end up taking the role of teacher when what I really want to be is the student.
What about becoming more aware of what you want to learn (as "the student"), rather than being concerned with role playing?
I simply need to live in the moment and let what I have learned intellectually to filter into my life. I don't want to learn anymore, I want to live.
(12-19-2013, 01:14 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2013, 01:03 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2013, 12:56 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
It's actually very simple. I've been awake for 1 year. I meet people that have been 'awake' for a much longer time (relatively of course), and find that I end up taking the role of teacher when what I really want to be is the student.
What about becoming more aware of what you want to learn (as "the student"), rather than being concerned with role playing?
I simply need to live in the moment and let what I have learned intellectually to filter into my life. I don't want to learn anymore, I want to live.
Ok, you want to be a student, but one who doesn't learn or "use experience" as Ra says? Sounds like you are confused.
(12-19-2013, 01:14 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2013, 01:03 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ] (12-19-2013, 12:56 AM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ] (12-18-2013, 09:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Dissatisfaction comes from lack of will within the relative freedom you've carved out for yourself.
(12-18-2013, 09:12 PM)rie Wrote: [ -> ]what happened to simple appreciation for the time and effort and care the other is sharing, in sharing their ideas?
Some posts do not involve time and effort and care and yet are appreciated. Some posts are the result of a great deal of time, effort and care yet are not appreciated.
It's actually very simple. I've been awake for 1 year. I meet people that have been 'awake' for a much longer time (relatively of course), and find that I end up taking the role of teacher when what I really want to be is the student.
What about becoming more aware of what you want to learn (as "the student"), rather than being concerned with role playing?
I simply need to live in the moment and let what I have learned intellectually to filter into my life. I don't want to learn anymore, I want to live.
Living is learning. What you may have tried to say, I think, is "I don't want to study theory anymore, I want to live". To move away from spending time with heavy theoretics and practice them in everyday life instead?
In any case, you'll likely spend alot of time moving between the two modes in your life.
(12-19-2013, 01:33 AM)zenmaster Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, you want to be a student, but one who doesn't learn or "use experience" as Ra says? Sounds like you are confused.
I've been confused my whole life.
*edit* I've met NO single person that has been able to lead me further on my path. Instead I've almost become addicted to meeting new people as I get to find out more about myself with each new interaction. At the same time, I'm terrified of being friendless and alone. This leads me to attach to every new person that I meet. At the same time, having found the LOO, it's difficult to accept that any 'traditional' path for growth is better than simply experiencing, meditating, and accepting.
(12-17-2013, 09:47 PM)GentleReckoning Wrote: [ -> ]I want people in my life that challenge MY thinking and lead me on intellectual roller-coaster rides.
Sounds like you're getting on fine doing that all by yourself ;-). I'd say from what I've read in this thread there's quite a bit for you to work with personally.
You may not necessarily realise it but those people are offering you learning. The learning of the acceptance of the path they are on whilst simultaneously highlighting a distorted
belief within yourself which is creating the apparent dilemma you are finding yourself in now. It isn't necessarily about directly affording evolution of the Self either, but rather being of Service to Others (It could be in a subliminal fashion rather than a direct 'brute force "
Here's my belief you better accept it because I know it's right, don't you see!" approach', which has the benefits of assisting them and in turn you with the expanded opportunities which results from that. There is learning to be found in being humble with what you 'know' whilst simultaneously acceptance of those aspects of Self which may not necessarily be content with that state.