Bring4th

*sniped* from the galactic free press

This is a question we get asked every now and again, and it begs another question: Does sadness or pity do anything to relieve another's suffering? I see a whole lot of people who behave like it does, yet I also see a world that's filled with people suffering. Does being sad yourself really help at all, or does it just contribute more sadness to the world?

You've probably heard the expression "misery loves company", which means that suffering people are usually quite eager to spread their suffering to others. If this provides any relief, I suspect it's only because the mind gets what it wants. The mind gets validation for it's suffering by spreading it to another, which doesn't really relieve the suffering at all, it strengthens the patterns of suffering.

If you want to help bring another out of their suffering, one of the first things to realize is that it's not your choice to make. You cannot make the decision to let go of misery for another, the choice is ultimately up to them. If they don't want to let go, you can't make them, and trying to do so is very likely to just create frustration and suffering within yourself. Trying to force another to do something is controlling them, and that's probably not going to end well.

What you can do is offer your love and support. You can observe suffering within another without taking it on yourself. This is one of the tricks to being a happy empath, feeling what's in another without taking it on yourself. You can be a source of positive energy in someone else's life, someone there to help lift them out of their suffering. This is far more helpful than taking on the suffering yourself, which would just add more suffering to a world that already has far more than it needs.

what are your thoughts on the matter Raz?

Taking anothers rejection and placing it upon yourself is only retaining the same distortion, no healing occurs. Healing only occurs when the distortion is accepted and healed by all parties involved. In other words, I completely agree. This is my belief/understanding.

Teaching and learning still works with suffering. The question you are asking focuses on suffering for some reason, when what you want to focus on is that teaching and learning.

I think we've been so deeply ingrained with the idea that suffering is 'good'. That selfnessness and self-sacrificing behavior is seen as loving and something to encourage, admire or even celebrate, it's not. While people who take responsibity for their life and choose to 'follow their bliss' tend to be seen as selfish, or fake etc. (in general). The only way to reduce the suffering on this planet is to reduce your own. If you claim to love yourself while you're keeping yourself in crappy relationships or working at a job you hate, you might want to think again. What has helped me a lot is asking myself, what would someone who truly loves herself do? Whether that involved choices about food or relationships, it's always quite different that what I'd 'normally' choose. Scary but fun.

(03-22-2014, 07:48 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]I think we've been so deeply ingrained with the idea that suffering is 'good'. That selfnessness and self-sacrificing behavior is seen as loving and something to encourage, admire or even celebrate, it's not. While people who take responsibity for their life and choose to 'follow their bliss' tend to be seen as selfish, or fake etc. (in general). The only way to reduce the suffering on this planet is to reduce your own. If you claim to love yourself while you're keeping yourself in crappy relationships or working at a job you hate, you might want to think again. What has helped me a lot is asking myself, what would someone who truly loves herself do? Whether that involved choices about food or relationships, it's always quite different that what I'd 'normally' choose. Scary but fun.

Yes, I see it the same way. The root behind selflessness is a subtle hositility against life. One must be good to oneself. It's often surprising what kind of thoughts are running through one's head about oneself. It's also interesting to observe one's own or other persons' language when one speaks about oneself. This indicates a lot about the relationship of the self to the self.

Here is a great quote of Meister Eckhart about self-love:

Quote:If you love yourself, you love everybody else as you do yourself. As long as you love another person less than you love yourself, you will not really succeed in loving yourself, but if you love all alike, including yourself, you will love them as one person and that person is both God and man. Thus he is a great and righteous person who, loving himself, loves all others equally.

Love of the self is for Meister Eckhart a necessary condition to love others. He says: Only after you love yourself, you will love others - not the other way around. So important is here that self-love must predate brotherly love or unconditional love.

Very very good responses. This thread makes me...well...

(03-22-2014, 02:41 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]what are your thoughts on the matter Raz?

That the same applies on an individual level. Everybody believes they have some type/level of suffering within some aspect of their life. Some of it you can do something about, some of it you have to let run its course.

you don’t have to stand in the way of that force, if you have a physical body that is in chronic pain you can work with directing it and channel that energy to our inner "release valve".

like if you stub your toe or something similar instant pain, you can let go of it and that energy will channel to the release valve and burst out laughing.

You can use the same principle for any type of signal that putts stress on the system.

It is counterproductive healing to suffer (resist, hold and/or playing a victim) from our suffering.

The idea of us containing and holding a personal suffering hurts, let go of ownership of the energy and let it expand without limit and get diluted in the whole.

Allot of our suffering about suffering comes from the idea that it is dangerous. I agree that pain can be very persuasive in convincing us something is dangerous or wrong, and this is true and practical on a human level.

I have come to a conclusion, through a NLE experience and years of research about "after physical Death"; Death is perfectly safe

This leads me to the conclusion that all types of suffering is perfectly safe and I trust it will depart (transform) once it has played it´s part in teaching/learning.

Life is like getting a tattoo, you will suffer, but the end result is one of cherished art.

I don't experience the physicality of suffering of the world firsthand, but I pick up empathatically the negativity of the world. Even though I don't see it, it has an emotional impact on me. It makes being here a sacrifice. But being able to help the vibration of the planet makes it worth it.

(03-22-2014, 07:31 PM)Raz Wrote: [ -> ]Life is like getting a tattoo, you will suffer, but the end result is one of cherished art.

I have realised recently that for me to listen to music is a far better way for me to process the suffering of the world than reading a newspaper or watching something like 'the hunger games', or one of these cop shows that seems hell bent on showing that big brother has a nightmare of Orwellian tools at its disposal.

For instance, Michael Jacksons: They don't really care about us. Gives me a real feeling. Accesses a sense of betrayal at having leaders that don't care about their citizens, with the good feeling of the talent in the song; whereas a more war like film might simply supress this instinct and replace it with righteous anger. Also the line 'you're going to Sodom and Gomorrah, but what do you care' in Bob Dylan's Jokerman gives me a feeling of satisfaction that I don't have to bother with those sorts of people.

In relation to the suffering of others I use it in a large part in improving my service/ improving myself. Which sometimes in a sort of Ho-oponopono sort of way I'm hoping will improve others as well. I started meditating again recently and the effect of all the subtle little changes meditation makes seems to change my relationships with others in a very positive way.

One of the many reasons I'm so grateful for the internet is that you're able to construct different perspectives regarding your worldview. Next to the suffering there are so incredibly many people/organizations creating sustainable solutions which would increase the well being of all in tremendous amounts. Imagine how spreading ideas such as 'unconditional basic income' (them swiss) affect our collective consciousness. No more need for survival, equality of basic human rights etc. I prefer to think about those kind of ideas, these days.

In a sense an idea like 'unconditional basic income' like you say, does come from suffering though. People put these ideas together as solutions to problems. Or perhaps it was simply an idea that worked and then was spread because it worked and not in opposition to anything.

One of the things that I intentionally bought to improve my world view was 'the spirit level' which is a sociological and statistical work that shows that a lot of the worst problems in our society are created by inequality, but above a certain level. Not Per Capita income. So to be clear the research said that the level of inequality in a country was well correlated with violence, teenage pregnancy, stress etc. However the overall richness of a country made no difference (excluding poverty). It is worth noting that these tendencies are seen across all income levels. In the case of health problems, if you removed the poorest you would not make a dent.

This will have effected the collective unconscious. Apparently the authors have received a lot of comments that this was a worldview people feel some part of them instinctively knew. Personally, such proofs mean I can argue against any random thought/ vague uncertain feeling, in my mind that proposes the validity of hierarchy, or of one person being treated better than another in relation to an abstract value.

“Imagine you are being born and society tells you ‘Welcome, you will be cared for, and asks you what you want to do with your life, what is your calling? Imagine that feeling, that’s a whole different atmosphere“ – Daniel Straub, Co-founder, Basic Income Initiative

Imo, that doesn't come from suffering. It's a totally different 'energy' compared to today's society, where you are forced to earn your right to exist, your value is generally measured by the amount of numbers on your bank account and your chances at development are highly dependable on where you're born. This idea is based on love, equality and most importantly; it's self-empowering. Whereas I believe that most, if not all suffering in the world today is caused by the idea/feeling of powerlessness.

I'm totally fond of the intention behind this idea.

It's an interesting idea. Because if it was put through and the benefits began to show through, politicians of many nations would start to look like idiots.

Also, like we have said the collective unconscious. I have read recently that a family will get better when one of the members works on themselves in therapy for example, because there is unspoken negativity that is always there between members. Perhaps the effect would be similar.

(03-24-2014, 05:26 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]“Imagine you are being born and society tells you ‘Welcome, you will be cared for, and asks you what you want to do with your life, what is your calling? Imagine that feeling, that’s a whole different atmosphere“ – Daniel Straub, Co-founder, Basic Income Initiative

Imo, that doesn't come from suffering. It's a totally different 'energy' compared to today's society, where you are forced to earn your right to exist, your value is generally measured by the amount of numbers on your bank account and your chances at development are highly dependable on where you're born. This idea is based on love, equality and most importantly; it's self-empowering. Whereas I believe that most, if not all suffering in the world today is caused by the idea/feeling of powerlessness.

I'm totally fond of the intention behind this idea.

The problem with that is you would be on the hook to someone else in order to gain that benefit. It doesn't matter whether that someone else is government or another person - you will have just given that other entity power over you by accepting a benefit from them.

The real solution is in getting rid of the Fed and private central banking and moving to a sound currency.

The Fed has caused asset prices to be completely out of control through easy loans. When you take that away, things like houses and cars revert to prices normal people can afford. Just to exist now, most of a normal person's money is just going to a car, housing, gasoline, etc.. It doesn't have to be that way. One could probably earn a living growing tomatoes in your back yard once the Fed is gone and things have settled down.

Then once free energy is here, all of humanity will be set free..

(03-24-2014, 06:50 AM)Phoenix Wrote: [ -> ]It's an interesting idea. Because if it was put through and the benefits began to show through, politicians of many nations would start to look like idiots.

Also, like we have said the collective unconscious. I have read recently that a family will get better when one of the members works on themselves in therapy for example, because there is unspoken negativity that is always there between members. Perhaps the effect would be similar.

Perhaps it would, I certainly believe so
You know those cliches like "be the change you want to see" which perfectly ties into "you are that which you seek", basically says it all. Change is inevitable if you accept yourself, just as you are.

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(03-24-2014, 07:52 AM)ScottK Wrote: [ -> ]

(03-24-2014, 05:26 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]“Imagine you are being born and society tells you ‘Welcome, you will be cared for, and asks you what you want to do with your life, what is your calling? Imagine that feeling, that’s a whole different atmosphere“ – Daniel Straub, Co-founder, Basic Income Initiative

Imo, that doesn't come from suffering. It's a totally different 'energy' compared to today's society, where you are forced to earn your right to exist, your value is generally measured by the amount of numbers on your bank account and your chances at development are highly dependable on where you're born. This idea is based on love, equality and most importantly; it's self-empowering. Whereas I believe that most, if not all suffering in the world today is caused by the idea/feeling of powerlessness.

I'm totally fond of the intention behind this idea.

The problem with that is you would be on the hook to someone else in order to gain that benefit. It doesn't matter whether that someone else is government or another person - you will have just given that other entity power over you by accepting a benefit from them.

The real solution is in getting rid of the Fed and private central banking and moving to a sound currency.

The Fed has caused asset prices to be completely out of control through easy loans. When you take that away, things like houses and cars revert to prices normal people can afford. Just to exist now, most of a normal person's money is just going to a car, housing, gasoline, etc.. It doesn't have to be that way. One could probably earn a living growing tomatoes in your back yard once the Fed is gone and things have settled down.

Then once free energy is here, all of humanity will be set free..

Ideally that would be fantabulous, of course. Since I have no idea when all you have described may occur it seems like a wonderful solution, in the meantime.

The intention behind this idea has little to do with having power over another entity, or not. It's more about sharing and trust. If your basic 'every day' costs are covered, unconditionally; without having to work for it. Well, it would be interesting to see how that would affect humanity.

(03-24-2014, 07:52 AM)ScottK Wrote: [ -> ]The problem with that is you would be on the hook to someone else in order to gain that benefit. It doesn't matter whether that someone else is government or another person - you will have just given that other entity power over you by accepting a benefit from them.

I have to agree with this. Because it makes you essentially powerless to the government.

In England what they do at the moment is create the situation where poverty is enforced and then in exchange for a little money make people apply for jobs, and set out a vicious campaign at demonising those people as apparently lazy people for not getting a job. (Sometimes those that are low on money actually have jobs and still need benefits.)

The point seems to get as far as possible away from the idea that the government actually owes it's citizens anything; by making it the fault of the people that are low on money.

The power of the implication of 'we are giving you money and you have to give xyz back' is quite total. I have heard people say many times that they don't feel they can complain because they are being given money.

Well, would you rather prefer to focus on those 'old' governmental structures or those that are shifting alongside their citizens? Like the Swiss, or Iceland.

I focus on what I realistically think is going to happen.

The Swiss model is from a country that most likely doesn't have the negative polarity running around in it's government, quite as much; and even though a short term solution may be to create such a welfare state, the fact that it hasn't sorted out the 'currency problem' means that it is liable for corruption. It is potentially better than what we have at the moment, but it means people can still print money; and all you need is a few negative folks to start chipping away at the freedoms of people in order to turn that 'absolute power' of the welfare state into a nightmare. In my opinion.

You know, realistically speaking I'm living in a house which I absolutely can't afford, since I have no job or steady income. Yet I'm still living here, surrounded by trees (something I've always wanted), and have been for about a year now, am able to feed myself and the cat, to drive a car wherever I want to go and pay my bills. Plus, I'm debt free. Realistically speaking it is -absolutely- impossible. But here we are. lol

This experience, among others, has stretched my limited belief of what is possible a great deal. What I'm trying to say is that it's ok to have a dream, no matter how unrealistic it may seem.

Idk anything about currency and am looking forward to the day that money becomes obsolete. In the meantime I'll support any idea which is considerably more loving and supporting.

Pardon the rambling and cheers to ideas and dreams.

These are my ideas. They are perhaps a little more ambitious. I will be using made up terms and ambiguousness to approximate ideas:

In mid 2014. The financial decimation of what came to be called 'The Lucy Cartel', lead to a sudden expansion of society as we know it. I personally was having to adapt to a powerful ability to see auras which had just revealed itself and my own personal story, is one of constant activity and adaption, all under some unseen guiding hand.

One of the things I do remember is the Pyramids. They started erecting them all over the place, and they did contribute to widescale wellbeing. Societies diet had vastly improved and in general, I remembered one day that I hadn't seen anybody in a really frustrated place for a long time. There was one common thread. Everybody had some sort of service that they were determinedly getting on with. The previously held ideas of a lazy being, based on the biomedical model were simply forgotten after the ongoing energy the increase in health and opportunities produced. Love became easier.

Honestly, I could read this all day. The Lucy cartel made me lol. Thanks for sharing!

Q:How can you be happy when there's so much suffering in the world?

A:Very carefully

I strive to be and feel love. Happiness would be seeing a real furry anthro wolfie.

(03-24-2014, 05:26 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]“Imagine you are being born and society tells you ‘Welcome, you will be cared for, and asks you what you want to do with your life, what is your calling? Imagine that feeling, that’s a whole different atmosphere“ – Daniel Straub, Co-founder, Basic Income Initiative

Imo, that doesn't come from suffering. It's a totally different 'energy' compared to today's society, where you are forced to earn your right to exist, your value is generally measured by the amount of numbers on your bank account and your chances at development are highly dependable on where you're born. This idea is based on love, equality and most importantly; it's self-empowering. Whereas I believe that most, if not all suffering in the world today is caused by the idea/feeling of powerlessness.

I'm totally fond of the intention behind this idea.

I see why a lot of people including you have this view. The problem with basic income is that you have to take this money from somebody else. There must exist a power structure which expropriates rich people and transfers this wealth to the poor. Today, this power structure is the state. A loving society would not need any enforcement or violence of a state apparatus. People would freely give.

Based on what I've read about it, I'd say the intention of the Swiss is that it will be shared freely and lovingly.

Just opened tumblr and bumped into another video regarding this subject;

I have to say that video has convinced me. It strikes me that there is no perfect system against corruption. (The Edgar Cayce readings once said 'You can't legislate goodness into the human heart.')

She has a solid grip of economics etc. And it is well explained.

But really, I always imagine that God has planned things better than my own ideas in a lot of ways.

Tumblr is a bit of an echochamber for detached-from-reality ideas, such as self righteous extreme leftism.
The more I actually look into politics and economics the more I tend to think the ideals of the far left are somewhat foolish given what is already established.

Unconditional income is already sort of a thing here in Australia with easily accessible government welfare which is a system that has undeniably caused a lot of harm by perpetuating and further enabling unemployment and general degeneracy.