in the following passage, Ra makes a distinction between the attitude and action of 'guiding' and that of 'teaching'.
Quote:9.3 Questioner: The healing exercises that you gave to us are [of] such a nature that it is best to concentrate on [a] particular exercise at a time. I would like to ask at this time what exercise I should concentrate on… possibly a little exercise change… should concentrate on [inaudible], say tonight?
Ra: I am Ra.
Again, to direct your judgment is an intrusion upon your space/time continuum distortion called future. To speak of past or present within our distortion/judgment limits is acceptable.
To guide rather than teach/learn is not acceptable to our distortion in regards to teach/learning.
We, instead, can suggest a process whereby each chooses the first of the exercises given in the order in which we gave them, which you, in your discernment, feel is not fully appreciated by your mind/body/spirit complex.
This is the proper choice, building from the foundation, making sure the ground is good for the building. We have assessed for you the intensity of this effort in terms of energy expended. You will take this in mind and be patient for we have not given a short or easy program of consciousness learn/teaching.
how do you understand this difference?
I noticed that Ra on many occasions turned down Don when he asked for personal advice on - 'what should I do?', rather than asking for the information that would elucidate a certain principle of action.
it's a subtle difference, but one that speaks to taking responsibility for our life choices, and the sort of questions that we ask.
(04-02-2014, 04:54 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]I noticed that Ra on many occasions turned down Don when he asked for personal advice on - 'what should I do?', rather than asking for the information that would elucidate a certain principle of action.
it's a subtle difference, but one that speaks to taking responsibility for our life choices, and the sort of questions that we ask.
I think you nailed it.
I believe the difference is delineated by a line, fuzzy though it may be.
On one side of that line is Person B making as free, un-influenced, and non-coerced a choice as possible. On the other side of the line is Person B circumventing their own decision process by choosing what Person A said to choose, or by following Person A's prescribed course of action.
In the latter, Person B has not made their own choice, precisely, but rather has made Person A's choice, or followed Person A's course of action.
I think Ra had to be extra careful about that line, knowing that their words were given significantly more weight (and thereby susceptible to overly influencing the group's free will) due to
a) their role as teacher and
b) their vastly increased perception/understanding/knowledge owing to their position in sixth density.
I don't think that the relationship between third-density entity to third-density entity need be as limited.
What if you were to give someone options? Would this then preserve free will? If someone were to ask for help, should you first ask them wha they would do, offer alternate suggestions then leave it up to them to decide or would this still be the influence to which they speak?
(04-02-2014, 05:16 PM)Bring4th_GLB Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that the relationship between third-density entity to third-density entity need be as limited.
yes, I think so too. When one 'confused entity in 3d' tries to make the attempt to guide another 'confused entity in 3d', we are sort of on a level playing field, the blind leading the blind if you will
it is definitely helpful (and valuable) to speak up while on this plane of existence. The catalyst it provides is invaluable.
To guide is to lead upon a pre-existent path. To teach is to offer awareness of the paths and their directions.
Yes it would seem to me that guiding involves the assumption of no free will , teaching on the other hand does. Doesn't really change the stimulus externally more so internally.
Guided/lost, teach/learn. Both can be seen as the same I would think Ra was just using the most common notion or symbol of each term currently within the societal memory complex.
I.e guided/lost carries a much more be all end all tone. teach/learn is much more open and up for change.
Ra describes positivity as attempting to address situations with "How may I be of service?" Another way of saying that is "What is this person truly asking of me?"
I think to guide would be when your will is getting in the way, where you're interjecting opinion when certain things aren't truly being requested..using the opportunity to align others with your thoughts. Because how often does a person truly turn to you and say, "I'm confused, what do you think of this or that?" Teaching would be answering questions that are asked. I think it really takes a lot of practice and trial and error to distinguish the two..it really is a lifelong journey.
One way to view all this would be as if someone is walking/searching and it's as if your will is used to pull the other in a certain direction (absorbent). If the other turns to you and asks for advice, a pathway can then be offered in an outwardly manner due to the request, which is radiance.
Silence is a comfort for sleeping, so I think there is virtue in learning to be quiet and patient. I think here in this reality, we need to learn to have the faith to let energy flow freely by letting others be themselves, own their thoughts, and make mistakes, trusting that the divine within them will guide themselves to a place where they seek deeper answers.
As a guide I can drive you the distance and point out the highlights.
As a teacher I can help you learn to drive, then warn you of the potholes and downed trees on the road most traveled. Then send you off saying "drive careful".
Would there be a difference when a 3D person guides a 3D person versus when a 6D entity guides a 3D person?
(My answer is yes btw)
(04-03-2014, 03:20 AM)reeay Wrote: [ -> ]Would there be a difference when a 3D person guides a 3D person versus when a 6D entity guides a 3D person?
(My answer is yes By the way)
I see the 6d entity as all things within experience, in space/time all you can perceive is the 3d entity and it's random quantitative bias, once you start perceiving the flickers of time/space contact you realize the feelings in the moment of space/time is the 6d entities way of communicating.
I.e you start to see the qualitative quality of direction with experience in space/time. Then you can as Ra sais become conscious and in control of the relative balancing of each quantitative division of self.
Could think of it in terms of human anatomy as well. We only have one head.
(04-03-2014, 03:20 AM)reeay Wrote: [ -> ]Would there be a difference when a 3D person guides a 3D person versus when a 6D entity guides a 3D person?
There is more freedom here to interject opinion, however, our downfall I believe is that this 3d mind is attached to the idea that when we encounter difference of opinion, something that we consider incorrect, it must be corrected. The opposite of that mind-frame is the basis of moving beyond orange/yellow ray and into green ray..a giving, allowing others
to be. It's the definition of acceptance/forgiveness..freely given love.
I think this is related to what Ra refers to as man-made distortions in
18.6. As we become more aware, I think we're required to not be so concerned with the delegation of knowledge, but harmony in the moment. Afterall, bellicose actions are to become those of thought
66.31..the powerful presiding over the less powerful. I think if you're doing it right, you're not causing conflict or disharmony in the interaction by dominating the other with thought.
"However, our very being is hopefully a poignant example of both the necessity and the near-hopelessness of attempting to teach."
(04-03-2014, 01:15 AM)BrownEye Wrote: [ -> ]As a guide I can drive you the distance and point out the highlights.
As a teacher I can help you learn to drive, then warn you of the potholes and downed trees on the road most traveled. Then send you off saying "drive careful".
Great analogy. Guiding infringes upon free will because the entity being guided sees the straight line they may walk. Resulting in an "easy" process of spiritual evolution.
Teaching on the other hand is an entity recieving the skills, stamina, or whatever it may need to spiritually progress. Spartan children trained and trained before heading out into the wild. The teachers can't do the hunting for them, they can only teach it.
Good points BrownEye/Hotsizzle..so it's not such much about insights themselves, but the tools needed for those insights that we're to communicate. I like that.
I would also add that since I am here in this body as an equal, I consider myself to be going through a test of proper learn/teaching, teach/learning..where the exterior and it's manifestations are a result of that balance. In other words, I am the student learning how to properly make use of that which I know.
I remember b4 I read Ra coming up with definitions:
Ordinary person - obvious
Seeker - one consciously trying to improve
Guide - one that offers advice out of compassion
Master - one like Jesus & Buddha or one with very superior knowledge to share
Teacher - someone who so riles me up that I must deal with why I'm vulnerable 2 that.
I have contemplated the issue presented of a 3rd density individual not living by the same standards of guiding vs teaching that a 6th density individual chooses to.
In either case, the entity has free will. I choose to at least try to live my life by that standard. Due to recent catalyst, I am attempting to be accepting of individuals who do not at all live their life by that standard.
Of supposed 6th density entities do you mean the Ra smc alone? To be honest mate i wouldn't compare apples and oranges, there are human methods which are the type that we are actually capable of reproducing with the same intent (we have no idea how sophisticated a sixth density mind is and how they process a decision so it would be kind of impossible to actually know the "standard") which I think are worthy enough to be considered, each to their own though, as you said everyone has their choice.
Though, if by "standard" you mean the associations drawn from what we are told in the Ra Material about sixth density (a balance of love and wisdom) then that is indeed an admirable way to live one's life. That said, the definitions of "love" and "wisdom" given by Ra are somewhat different than the usual meanings as they are principles rather than just actions in the context of the Ra Material.
Edit: *cosmic principles
Parsons, are you talking about personal preferences?
Quote:I have contemplated the issue presented of a 3rd density individual not living by the same standards of guiding vs teaching that a 6th density individual chooses to.
I said what I said because I have noticed and experienced a certain trauma in individuals who's actions, by necessity, cannot be in alignment or consistent with their ideals or what they believe in. It can induce a very hopeless feeling that I would not wish wish upon others, especially when there are worthy alternatives and the opportunity to find something more applicable and related to reality.
(04-15-2014, 06:32 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]Parsons, are you talking about personal preferences?
I am talking about my personal preference to teach/learn rather than guide (whenever possible).
I realized the attitude was one of my holdovers from before I awoke to any degree. I remember as a child occasionally showing someone how to do something and prefacing it with something like "this is best way I've found to do this, but you may find a better way".
(04-15-2014, 02:06 PM)Parsons Wrote: [ -> ] (04-15-2014, 06:32 AM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]Parsons, are you talking about personal preferences?
I am talking about my personal preference to teach/learn rather than guide (whenever possible).
I realized the attitude was one of my holdovers from before I awoke to any degree. I remember as a child occasionally showing someone how to do something and prefacing it with something like "this is best way I've found to do this, but you may find a better way".
What about 'my way or the highway'? Did you skip that phase?
No, I constantly struggle with that. As I've grown older and had more and more time to contemplate certain things, I have a harder time not taking the attitude of "my way or the highway" because my opinions become more entrenched/refined. However, because I lean slightly more towards 'perceiving' rather than 'judging' on the MBTI; I can perceive someone's opinion rather than judge it "wrong".
I find I listen diligently to what people say and take there advice always, anything said can be seen in an allegorically enhancing way. Allows for sincere joyful defiance which confuses a lot.
(04-15-2014, 06:04 PM)Parsons Wrote: [ -> ]No, I constantly struggle with that. As I've grown older and had more and more time to contemplate certain things, I have a harder time not taking the attitude of "my way or the highway" because my opinions become more entrenched/refined. However, because I lean slightly more towards 'perceiving' rather than 'judging' on the MBTI; I can perceive someone's opinion rather than judge it "wrong".
How do you percieve without judging?
You simply perceive/understand a viewpoint without making a decision on if it's 'good or bad' or 'right or wrong'.
I understand the mechanics but I don't understand how that's applicable during any kind of social interaction, other than repression.
/To clarify, in the grand scheme of things, sure. And I don't mean it in a sense to consistently act upon it, but in the moment of having a conversation I can't help but think of something as wrong/right etc. And I'm quite ok with it too. Otherwise we wouldn't have anything left to talk about.
I wonder why they call them spirit guides instead of spirit teachers, since they don't really guide you.
(04-16-2014, 02:42 PM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]I understand the mechanics but I don't understand how that's applicable during any kind of social interaction, other than repression.
/To clarify, in the grand scheme of things, sure. And I don't mean it in a sense to consistently act upon it, but in the moment of having a conversation I can't help but think of something as wrong/right etc. And I'm quite ok with it too. Otherwise we wouldn't have anything left to talk about.
No right or wrong in a moral sense per Ra:
Quote:1.7 Questioner: [The question was lost because the questioner was sitting too far from the tape recorder to be recorded.]
Ra: I am Ra. Consider, if you will, that the universe is infinite. This has yet to be proven or disproven, but we can assure you that there is no end to your selves, your understanding, what you would call your journey of seeking, or your perceptions of the creation.
That which is infinite cannot be many, for many-ness is a finite concept. To have infinity you must identify or define that infinity as unity; otherwise, the term does not have any referent or meaning. In an Infinite Creator there is only unity. You have seen simple examples of unity. You have seen the prism which shows all colors stemming from the sunlight. This is a simplistic example of unity.
In truth there is no right or wrong. There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things. You are not speaking of similar or somewhat like entities or things. You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation. You are unity. You are infinity. You are love/light, light/love. You are. This is the Law of One.
No right or wrong in a factual, physical sense because every single statement about the external world is probabilistic in nature. There is no such thing as 100%. Senses can be wrong, etc, etc. There's a ton of discussion in epistemology (philosophy) on this.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistemology
There can be right or wrong in a limited sense within definitions of concepts, but it's more about how you define things and whether definitions are internally consistent. Ie defining love as not including acceptance is not internally consistent - you could say wrong but it's hard to argue about overt definitions since any definition can be created subjectively. I think this is the closest you can get to something being right or wrong, but this usually seldom comes up in overt real life social interactions.
At the end of the day, you really don't need the categories of right and wrong to think about the world or make decisions. Although, to be fair, I am a philosophy major so I do think about the world in different ways.
(04-16-2014, 03:08 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]At the end of the day, you really don't need the categories of right and wrong to think about the world or make decisions. Although, to be fair, I am a philosophy major so I do think about the world in different ways.
No, you clearly don't.
If only I could put aside right or wrong. At least I try not to have judgment in my meditations about what's wrong when images come up, or thoughts. I once thought I was in 4D, that there was no consequence to my actions, and I did some foolish things. I guess they weren't wrong, and I could have done worse things. I no longer think of coming here into 3D was a wrong decision. Maybe a hard one, but not wrong.
(04-16-2014, 03:12 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]If only I could put aside right or wrong. At least I try not to have judgment in my meditations about what's wrong when images come up, or thoughts. I once thought I was in 4D, that there was no consequence to my actions, and I did some foolish things. I guess they weren't wrong, and I could have done worse things. I no longer think of coming here into 3D was a wrong decision. Maybe a hard one, but not wrong.
Judgment is a valuable/positive tool and it isn't something you can put aside. Judging aspects as right/wrong or preferable/nonpreferable, whatever you want to call it, is quite healthy and necessary for your own personal/spiritual (it's all the same to me) development.