I found this video interesting, because it shows our beliefs can create what we experience on the other side. This guy was a Christian and baptized (so was I), and still experienced hell. It makes you wonder why God would throw a believer into hell. But I realize that the reality of the afterlife is much more than this. We might start in a dark place if we have feelings of unworthiness, only to have our guides bring us out, and help us. There is much help on the other side.
I was thinking about death again, and this makes me wonder what I will experience when I pass over, since I sometimes have a conflict going on internally regarding what is truth.
Because he believes in hell. God didn't throw him into hell, his own expectations did.
A person's biases and unconscious expectations (derived from belief) will influence any sort of "visionary"/hallucinogenic experience.
i've read accounts of people claiming they saw jesus even tho' they didn't believe in him whatsoever. likely lies, obviously, but imo interesting nonetheless bc there's a chance they're not fabricating it
Quote:Eadie notes -- as have researchers -- that Jesus is not always the first person met upon death. Many report angels or deceased loved ones. But there is only one Mediator, and most do swiftly encounter His Light. "Those who had not believed in Him before, often come back to find their worlds turned upside-down," she said, adding, however, that no one should judge another religion harshly. One Jew who did not believe in Jesus saw the Lord at the end of a tunnel. "He placed His hands on my shoulders and said, Go back, My son; your work is not done," testified this man, who later became Catholic.
Quote:i've read accounts of people claiming they saw jesus even tho' they didn't believe in him whatsoever. likely lies, obviously, but imo interesting nonetheless bc there's a chance they're not fabricating it
You don't have to "believe" in Jesus to be aware of him (have the concept of him in your mind) and hallucinatory images come from one's own mind. Those people, I guarantee you (if the cases were not fabricated), were from cultures where Christianity is practiced.
Even if the cases you are talking about were fabricated I have seen official documentation of that phenomena before, previous societal analogues for current personal experience are often offered to the hallucinating individual. A lot of people in the 60s suddenly became christians after seeing Jesus on acid lol
What if they really saw Jared Leto?
![[Image: jared-leto-totally-looks-like-jesus-1-15...-8_big.jpg]](http://s3-ak.buzzfeed.com/static/2014-03/campaign_images/webdr03/2/19/jared-leto-totally-looks-like-jesus-1-15482-1393808366-8_big.jpg)
It's curious bc whatever memory people tap into to recall their so-called death experience can be created - meaning we can't really verify or refute what we think we remember, we could make memories up. If the mind streams hell-ish, devilish figures that could have some symbolic meaning for them in their 'death' experience. They may or may not be Christian or believe in any figures but perhaps those are symbolically relevant to them in context of their death experience.
I really think there are two separate dynamics at work here. I think that when someone has a near death experience or takes a powerful psychedelic, you do have an experience which is heavily shaded by your own biases. But I also think there is a metaphysical component that is severely underestimated.
84.17 Ra Wrote:Indeed, the body complex as a whole is greatly misunderstood due to the post-veiling assumption that the physical manifestation called the body is subject only to physical stimuli. This is emphatically not so.
I think people really do interact with entities in other densities in some instances. In fact, I think it might be quite common.
For example, when I had an extremely intense experience with a homemade ayahuasca brew, I believe I experienced both dynamics. As a result of the much too high dosage, I found out first hand why it is nicknamed the 'death vine'. I was intensely focused on the unexpected terror of thinking I had died.
I went through an experience at first which was clearly colored by my expectations in terms of what I experienced immediately after death. But I also believe there was a negative entity opportunistically fucking with me at one point. I have never, ever had the slightest belief in 'hell' or the Christian portrayal of 'Lucifer' , but I had an entity at one point tell me that I had a 'Luciferian' tattoo on my leg which meant something bad would happen. Because I was so terrified at the time, I just simply ignored it and wasn't the least bit worried about what it said. Since it was such a non sequitur in an otherwise (surprising) coherent experience, I think it was likely an 'outside' influence rather than just my mind hallucinating.
(05-01-2014, 03:25 AM)Fang Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:i've read accounts of people claiming they saw jesus even tho' they didn't believe in him whatsoever. likely lies, obviously, but imo interesting nonetheless bc there's a chance they're not fabricating it
You don't have to "believe" in Jesus to be aware of him (have the concept of him in your mind) and hallucinatory images come from one's own mind. Those people, I guarantee you (if the cases were not fabricated), were from cultures where Christianity is practiced.
Even if the cases you are talking about were fabricated I have seen official documentation of that phenomena before, previous societal analogues for current personal experience are often offered to the hallucinating individual. A lot of people in the 60s suddenly became christians after seeing Jesus on acid lol
then how is spaced's comment true? he wrote that the guy went to hell bc he believed in it
(05-01-2014, 10:49 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2014, 03:25 AM)Fang Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:i've read accounts of people claiming they saw jesus even tho' they didn't believe in him whatsoever. likely lies, obviously, but imo interesting nonetheless bc there's a chance they're not fabricating it
You don't have to "believe" in Jesus to be aware of him (have the concept of him in your mind) and hallucinatory images come from one's own mind. Those people, I guarantee you (if the cases were not fabricated), were from cultures where Christianity is practiced.
Even if the cases you are talking about were fabricated I have seen official documentation of that phenomena before, previous societal analogues for current personal experience are often offered to the hallucinating individual. A lot of people in the 60s suddenly became christians after seeing Jesus on acid lol
then how is spaced's comment true? he wrote that the guy went to hell bc he believed in it
If Fang is stating the idea that mere conceptual familiarity alone without any requirement of full belief is all that is required to have these experiences of hell, then that is indeed consistent with Spaced's idea that full belief can generate these experiences as well, since full belief almost always includes conceptual familiarity with what you believe in.
To give an example of the logic involved: You don't have to believe in Jesus be familiar with his story. But if I fully believe in Jesus (in an educated fashion), I am almost certainly familiar with his story.
(05-01-2014, 10:56 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2014, 10:49 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ] (05-01-2014, 03:25 AM)Fang Wrote: [ -> ]Quote:i've read accounts of people claiming they saw jesus even tho' they didn't believe in him whatsoever. likely lies, obviously, but imo interesting nonetheless bc there's a chance they're not fabricating it
You don't have to "believe" in Jesus to be aware of him (have the concept of him in your mind) and hallucinatory images come from one's own mind. Those people, I guarantee you (if the cases were not fabricated), were from cultures where Christianity is practiced.
Even if the cases you are talking about were fabricated I have seen official documentation of that phenomena before, previous societal analogues for current personal experience are often offered to the hallucinating individual. A lot of people in the 60s suddenly became christians after seeing Jesus on acid lol
then how is spaced's comment true? he wrote that the guy went to hell bc he believed in it
If Fang is stating the idea that mere conceptual familiarity alone without any requirement of full belief is all that is required to have these experiences of hell, then that is indeed consistent with Spaced's idea that full belief can generate these experiences as well, since full belief almost always includes conceptual familiarity with what you believe in.
To give an example of the logic involved: You don't have to believe in Jesus be familiar with his story. But if I fully believe in Jesus (in an educated fashion), I am almost certainly familiar with his story.
fang's not stating u can experience something w/o having "full belief" but rather he's stating u can experience it w/o having any belief of it at all. he claims the knowledge of it is all that's *required*
if fang's correct then one can't discern so matter-of-factly the guy experienced hell solely bc he believed in it like spaced wrote. he very well could have experienced it just bc he knew of it, assuming fang's assumption is correct...
spaced's comment implies that u'll definitely get out of going to hell if u simply completely disbelieve in it
Even if you don't consciously believe in Jesus, if you are raised in a family or society that constantly pushes the image of Jesus as saviour and the idea that you will be reunited with christ after death then your subconscious is still gonna pick up on that and that idea will still be floating around in your psyche and can then inform any metaphysical experiences you'd have.
(05-01-2014, 11:13 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]spaced's comment implies that u'll definitely get out of going to hell if u simply completely disbelieve in it
More like you can't have an experience of hell if you aren't aware of the idea of hell.
The experience of 'Death' acts as a literal feedback system to ones beliefs sure, however what is actually occurring is the experience of 'real time' manifestation of ones thoughts. In 3D this construct is 'slowed' down tremendously allowing for the illusion of a process and choice with the veil, partly due to the nature of the Mind and being subject to space/time. When one's thoughts are charged with belief they are
immediately apparent on the higher vibratory planes (This is where the idea of thoughtforms, energetic dysfunction & spiritual catalyst (Eventually manifesting into 3D if not addressed) come into play), taking time to crystallise and become 'dense' into the current 3D reality stream, from a potential probable event to one that is concrete. It is also why visualisation is so potent.
We don't notice this obviously, due to the nature of our condition, however once the transition is made through expanding conscious focus from the physical apparatus to the higher planes (Or rather aspects of Self), ones beliefs taking form become apparent. These are usually programmed or conditioned beliefs regarding death that were either unconscious or conscious, but nevertheless were accepted on some level, and are being processed out. Conscious awareness of this ceases the experience being played on 'automatic', which has been reported by many NDE'rs. There is also the idea of the HS providing an environment which will not 'shock' it's aspect, but rather that which will conform to it's beliefs to ease transition.
Not sure if anyone here can 'remember' the experience of their condition pre-veil, however if you do you would know you could form an environment through the equivalent of our imaginative faculties in an instant. It is highly similar to being able to form all sorts of weird wacky stuff by simply 'thinking it' when Astral Projecting. When one interfaces with their guides in Meditation through Imagination an environment is also being constructed which they (and you) partake in as a meeting area.
Quote:16.55 Questioner: To make this a little more clear, if I were to daydream strongly about building a ship, would this occur in one of these other densities?
Ra: I am Ra. This would, would have, or shall occur.
(05-01-2014, 11:13 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]then how is spaced's comment true? he wrote that the guy went to hell bc he believed in it
...
if fang's correct then one can't discern so matter-of-factly the guy experienced hell solely bc he believed in it like spaced wrote. he very well could have experienced it just bc he knew of it, assuming fang's assumption is correct...
Re: then how is spaced's comment true?: Without any outside information, based on the theories we're discussing, Spaced's comment can be potentially true, as both belief or mere knowledge can lead to these experiences.
However, given the OP and the video, I think Spaced's discernment is probably true since the guy seems pretty hardcore into his belief in the video (of course, after the fact). We of course don't know for certain whether the guy actually believed this stuff beforehand or whether he had mere knowledge of it, but it doesn't seem unreasonable. I do think there is room for disagreement on the subject though as we don't really know what he thought or knew beforehand.
(05-01-2014, 11:39 AM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]Re: then how is spaced's comment true?: Without any outside information, based on the theories we're discussing, Spaced's comment can be potentially true, as both belief or mere knowledge can lead to these experiences.
However, given the OP and the video, I think Spaced's discernment is probably true since the guy seems pretty hardcore into his belief in the video (of course, after the fact). We of course don't know for certain whether the guy actually believed this stuff beforehand or whether he had mere knowledge of it, but it doesn't seem unreasonable. I do think there is room for disagreement on the subject though as we don't really know what he thought or knew beforehand.
it's for sure only "potentially true" & no doubt insinuates he went to hell only bc he believed in it
i can't deny it's likely he went there bc he believed in it so strongly but i just thought i should point out that 1 can still go there w/o having any belief in it
My understanding is there is no eternal hell, since the Creator is all love, and no part would be eternally separated from it. In fact we are never truly separate from it, despite the illusion that we are. If anything, this life is hell, because of the apparent separation from Creator. I agree that our beliefs create what we will experience, both conscious and subconscious. But it will be only temporary. I think before long, our creation comes more under our conscious control.
The video shows that we can think we're doing good, and experience a totally different reality. But I'm not sure what he thought before the experience either.
(05-01-2014, 12:16 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that our beliefs create what we will experience, both conscious and subconscious.
i think it's more like our beliefs *can* create what we'll experience
u'll probably see master jesus, & he'll be in anthro form, then he'll say to u that u may only speak to him when u're on your knees then u'll get on your knees then say "ah, heaven, at last"
There was the case of a monk who had passed on. He experienced a personal hell of a blade that would cut into his head. He was aware he would have to do this for 1000 years (or so). And then the next person would come and experience that. He said he would take the next 3 turns so that others wouldn't have to suffer like he did. Because of his compassion, the blade broke and he was free.
I like that isis what you say. Though I'd probably think it was my higher self. If it appeared to me as light, I'd recognize it as myself. If it appeared to me as an anthro, I'd either think higher self or another being. Not sure Jesus though since he's busy in 5th density.
(05-01-2014, 05:01 AM)Parsons Wrote: [ -> ]I was intensely focused on the unexpected terror of thinking I had died.
I thought that death itself was peaceful. It was the dying process that was traumatic. I once thought I had died, and I was thrilled. Ayahuasca must have an additional psychological component to it that caused fear in that instance. I've taken Pharmahuasca, which is the active ingredients of Ayahuasca, and it was a beautiful experience. Although I almost took too much once and kept thinking that I didn't want to put my friend through that.