Bring4th

I've done some pretty separative things in my life. Ones that have incurred karmic feedback, and for which I've felt the consequences fair and square.

in this passage here, Ra speaks of full forgiveness, and the elements that go into it:

Quote:18.12 Questioner: You stated yesterday that forgiveness is the eradicator of karma. I am assuming that balanced forgiveness for the full eradication of karma would require forgiveness not only of other-selves but forgiveness of self. Am I correct?

Ra: I am Ra. You are correct. We will briefly expand upon this understanding in order to clarify.

Forgiveness of other-self is forgiveness of self.

An understanding of this insists upon full forgiveness upon the conscious level of self and other-self, for they are one.

A full forgiveness is thus impossible without the inclusion of self.

in common societal understandings, when a 'wrong' has been done, the person who committed the wrong is responsible for taking ownership of the action, and then making some form of appropriate reparations, as is somehow commonly agreed upon. I have no beef with that. It is reasonable.

However, on a metaphysical level, sometimes there are 'wrongs' which are not breaches of society's laws, and yet are deliberate actions of separation against the other self.

Sometimes a long period has passed, and a direct apology or confession to the other person is not possible.

what then?

In Ra's understanding, the forgiveness is not evinced by any external action which may or may not take place (given circumstances and appropriateness), but it is a metaphysical ownership of the action and the recognition of the separative nature of what took place.

when this is fully made explicit and conscious, then any karmic fallout should also dissipate, as it is no longer being required as a learning tool to see the consequences of a certain line of thought.

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and what is my Final Forgiveness?

at the age of 12, I went to the end of my street early one morning and incited an ant's nest with a long twig. The enraged ants came storming out, and I spent the next five minutes stomping on hundreds of them. This was a totally sadistic act, with no possible advantage for me except to see what would happen.

And know what? I repeated the same action the next morning. But that was it.

I've long held the guilt of this action from so many years ago and used it as a weapon against myself. That I was an evil individual and totally deserved everything I got.

I don't condone what I did; but it has been finally accepted and released.

Will I ever again make that error? I have made a stern commitment not to.

Quote:34.5 Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error.

Did Ra speak on the error "never being made again" out of a commitment or a natural acceptance and faith in the self?

What is your understanding of why you did what you did Plenum? What sort of thinking and beliefs, conscious and unconscious, led to your behavior?

Quote:34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

I ask about understanding because it's mentioned in the quotation and I've personally begun to study more and more pure "understanding", I'm discovering it is just as essential to attempt to 'understand' "understanding" as it is to learn acceptance and forgiveness when studying green-ray love.

You probably have great understanding of what you did and why you did since you are talking about forgiving yourself, but I think it would be great if you could share your insights as to what led to your behavior.

'Karma' is just your conscience and forgiveness/acceptance is basically a daily practice, it never ends, that's the beauty of it.

(05-22-2014, 06:23 PM)Melissa Wrote: [ -> ]'Karma' is just your conscience and forgiveness/acceptance is basically a daily practice, it never ends, that's the beauty of it.

I'm not sure I agree. I think way Ra defines it, it's both your own feelings and the other's self involved feelings toward the act.

Quote:34.4 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?
Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?

Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.

This also makes logical sense. Say if Person A mutilates Person B and cuts off B's arms for shits and giggles, logically s*** is gonna happen until Person A AND Person B are cool with how things went down. If Person A forgives himself, but Person B is angry, stuff is gonna happen through B's revenge etc. If Person B forgives Person A, but Person A can't forgive himself, A going to attract catalytic experiences to teach himself self-forgiveness.

There are those in my life who are hard to get along with. I can still find it in my heart to forgive them.

I have hurt animals before too. I have forgiven myself for this.

Honestly Gemini, I have always noticed, even when I was much younger. I had more compassion for trees and animals. Then my fellow man. Especially trees. At times, I find it kind of hard to find that, compassion for fellow 3rd density beings. That and other reasons, have made me aware, that's one of the reasons, I chose to come here. I wish to open my heart more. I also believe, in the past I have prized intellect to much. So I can see how the two, flow in the same river.


Light/Love Love/Light finite/infinite infinite/finite all in one, one in all.

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Two questions. What is all energy? What is the present moment full of?

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Free will and love. simple as that son!!!!yayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

(05-22-2014, 07:21 PM)I_Am_The_One Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly Gemini, I have always noticed, even when I was much younger. I had more compassion for trees and animals. Then my fellow man.

It feels like I have more compassion for my dogs than I do my mom. She's hard to live with.

Well, a good thing to remember, is that the perceived separation. From other-self and you. Is basically equal in proportion in "growth". If you can move beyond that separation.

(05-22-2014, 06:09 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]I ask about understanding because it's mentioned in the quotation and I've personally begun to study more and more pure "understanding", I'm discovering it is just as essential to attempt to 'understand' "understanding" as it is to learn acceptance and forgiveness when studying green-ray love.

You probably have great understanding of what you did and why you did since you are talking about forgiving yourself, but I think it would be great if you could share your insights as to what led to your behavior.

Hiya xise,

I guess I would associate the acceptance part with the heart, and the understanding component wiith the action of the blue ray centre.

But I am also aware that I am filtering a lot of stuff through the energy centres these days, and so that as a framework, it might seem a bit forced without being able to fully see the exact construct I am working with (and the associated level of detail).

but back to understanding, and it's essential function in the process.

I fully agree that some level of comprehension and some sort of further digging below just 'acceptance' is required for full forgiveness and letting go.

I guess the essence of karmic action is that one gets to experience in some way what one has 'put out' there. So if one acts on violence, then violence might find a way to return to your experience, so that one can experience the other end of the stick if you will.

for me, the acceptance part is to acknowledge the other-self who is returning the karmic action to you, and not hold them as separate (blaming etc). The understanding part would in some way acknowledge the self-generated nature of the event; and that it was the self which set in motion the events through the original crystallising act.

understanding equates to responsibilily as well.

- -

what led to my original behaviour though? ignorance, frustration, anger? a child's curiosity? but in the end, it was no excuse for the wanton destruction of life.

in a way, I don't consider the motivation as that important an issue (it is ultimately born of ignorance and confusion), but appreciating the consequence of the action (being deliberately unloving, separative) is the actual real feedback and catalyst I think.

do you have any thoughts on the forgiveness process xise? something that you haven't been able to fully forgive, despite earnest attempts to recontextualise and revisit?

(ps its very palpable when full forgiveness is achieved; the memory no longer comes unbidden to one when you are tired or vulnerable, and it loses it's sting).

Plenum

Quote:20.36 Questioner: You use the same nomenclature for fourth-density negative as for fourth-density positive. Both are called the dimension of love or understanding. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. Love and understanding, whether it be of self or of self towards other-self, is one.

I've found the Ra material often uses love and understanding in a lot of places, and I find from my personal experience understanding others seems to come from my heart, rather than other rays. But regardless of where you pin it, understanding is important.


I've had less trouble forgiving others in part because I have less trouble understanding and accepting others. But there was this one acquaintance in high school, a year above me, who I held a grudge against for a long time. He was the type to have a crew and make fun of you in the hall, which was odd because I barely interacted with him. He also got a car ride from a friend of mine and destroyed a CD of mine that I had lent the friend upon learning that it was my CD (he asked to hold it, then asked my friend if he bought it or borrowed it, when my friend said it was mine, he took his metal mechanical pencil and etched deep scars into the CD while my friend was driving). He did a lot of other stuff, and most of it didn't bother me because it just seemed so random since I rarely interacted with the guy, but the two above things upset me greatly. I was pretty introverted in high school and so I didn't really stand up to myself. But I also was angry because I had no idea why he did these things to me. My forgiveness came naturally when I later learned things that help me understand him. I learned that he stole a partially written anonymous love letter another had written for valentine's day for a girl and posted copies around the school. He put something undrinkable in the same person's bottle of $50 bottle of vodka during an under-21 spring break trip. Another friend of mine told me that this guy continued to act like a D-bag in college, eventually alienating all of his friends, and apparently got punched in the face after a few D-bag moves by a variety of people. I came to understand that this person had nothing against me at all, but at heart was a person who drew genuine enjoyment over the misfortune of others, and that apparently only refrained when people exerted blatant superiority (physical force in this case) over him. This process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness came before I was in any way spiritual.


But you can see a recent example of forgiveness issues when I posted a while back about my uncle poisoning to death stray dogs with pesticides. Understanding my uncle's mindset and actions was key to my acceptance and forgiveness.


On a personal scale, I've had more trouble with self-forgiveness on many issues. I've had trouble forgiving myself with how I've been somewhat cruel women who wanted a real relationship with me in past years. It was only through self-understanding that I was protecting myself due to my insecurities was I able to accept and forgive my own behavior.


My path involves embracing but also thinking through my desires. Thus, my understanding of my motivation is crucial to my particular path. Also, I think understanding the origins of catalyst - which often includes one's motivation for self-caused catalyst, is important. If I don't understand why I did something, I find I am much more likely to repeat it. I can "control" my actions without understanding through guilt and right versus wrong thinking, but I find that sort of control to be personally harmful. When I understand my own motivations, I can truly decide whether it is something I wish to engage in or not by understanding what beliefs and perspectives the motivation stems from. For example, in the above mentioned example with hurting women, once I understand that I was distancing myself from women due to personal insecurities/lack of self-acceptance, I could work on the core issue of lack of self-acceptance and the cruelty naturally disappeared. I could have also just deemed it unacceptable and controlled my actions, but I've found in general that's much less effective for my personally.


But there are many ways to acceptance and forgiveness. Faith is definitely one that I have less experience with and it would see that is what you used in your example Plenum - at least the type of faith that is defined by understanding there is some greater meaning to the entire process (a method to the madness so to speak, even if you cannot see it), without necessarily understanding the minute details of a given situation. I love your stories and posts because they dig deep into core philosophical concepts, and for that I'm grateful for that brother.

(05-26-2014, 11:16 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]Also, I think understanding the origins of catalyst - which often includes one's motivation for self-caused catalyst, is important. If I don't understand why I did something, I find I am much more likely to repeat it.

I think there is huge freedom gained when you can get to the actual reason or cause for particular behavior patterns, and view that reason with compassion, acceptance, and forgiveness. Otherwise, like you said, you're likely to try making changes through control or will without quite having learned/integrated the lesson.

(05-26-2014, 11:16 PM)xise Wrote: [ -> ]I love your stories and posts because they dig deep into core philosophical concepts, and for that I'm grateful for that brother.

Word do that!

(05-22-2014, 05:57 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]In Ra's understanding, the forgiveness is not evinced by any external action which may or may not take place (given circumstances and appropriateness), but it is a metaphysical ownership of the action and the recognition of the separative nature of what took place.

Reminds me of this one:

10.12: However, if this same entity, being biased from the depths of its mind/body/spirit complex towards love/light, were then to accept responsibility for each moment of the time/space accumulation of present moments available to it, such an entity can empower its progress in much the same way as we described the empowering of the call of your social complex distortion to the Confederation.