Bring4th

Why do we go through several stages of growth to become all things?

Why does the creator desire to know itself? Why is this knowing of the self significant to it?

Is it the present moments people experience the creator values, or is it the completion of every soul and every octave it values most? Is it both at once in an infinite present moment? Or am I missing the point?

"In truth, who knows God becomes God."

The Creator values all of his creation equally. Infinite Present Moment = The One Infinite Creator.

"...Without Beginning, without end, beyond Time, Space, and Causality, Eternal, Immutable. Those who realize the Self are Forever Free from the jaws of death."

There seems to be some obvious striving for efficiency, and push for souls to complete the octave. Each subsequent Logoi creates a creation in an attempt to make a more efficient path through this octave, from the last octave to the next. So I would say that spiritual evolution, movement from lower to higher, is preferred. But I believe truly experiencing, accepting, and integrating a present moment would lead to this growth. Each present moment changes and offers new catalyst, and if we are able to efficiently process the catalyst offered in each moment, we are growing.

But does the Creator value experience that does not offer growth or movement upwards? Why does the Creator desire to know itself? I've never seen or experienced satisfactory answers to these questions. They may be part of the mystery in which our being rises and falls.

For me it's the destination, not the journey that I value.

(05-29-2014, 03:26 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]There seems to be some obvious striving for efficiency, and push for souls to complete the octave. Each subsequent Logoi creates a creation in an attempt to make a more efficient path through this octave, from the last octave to the next. So I would say that spiritual evolution, movement from lower to higher, is preferred. But I believe truly experiencing, accepting, and integrating a present moment would lead to this growth. Each present moment changes and offers new catalyst, and if we are able to efficiently process the catalyst offered in each moment, we are growing.

But does the Creator value experience that does not offer growth or movement upwards? Why does the Creator desire to know itself? I've never seen or experienced satisfactory answers to these questions. They may be part of the mystery in which our being rises and falls.

With the negative polarity coming from nearly every Logos to veto the efficiency of certain creations in ways we know and currently do not know, I can only say the creator has allowed much to be created that isn't directly related to growth but also debilitation and constraint of life as a desired experience.

(05-29-2014, 03:44 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]With the negative polarity coming from nearly every Logos to veto the efficiency of certain creations in ways we know and currently do not know, I can only say the creator has allowed much to be created that isn't directly related to growth but also debilitation and constraint of life as a desired experience.

The introduction of the negative polarity actually increased efficiency. Before the availability of the negative polarity, there was hardly any effort from mind/body/spirits to strive for evolution and polarization.

It may seem like it has vetoed the efficiency, but even in a Creation like ours, which seems inefficient, there is a much more significant harvest than there was when the negative polarity was not an "option."

However, there is no guarantee that the negative polarity will be subsided. If the negative polarity manages to depolarize an entire system into debilitation and an entire lack of life, which is freely given as a choice, there can theoretically be no net gain of life from a system and an entire lack of experience for the creator from otherwise vast potentials.

The creator seems to be more than happy to see entire species of life destroyed with no experience gained.

I can only say I'm acting on some assumptions I've inferred but I highly doubt the idea that all Logos are convicted to completely efficient experience, especially when they allow potentials of complete destruction to exist. (e.g. species destroying entire planets)

You're free to dismiss this on the basis that this is not completely mentioned in the LOO but I assume it from the fact this is possible if the negative polarity is pursued.

In planets where negative polarity has taken over, there probably is no longer any free will.

I'm not sure about Creator. I'm sure it experiences suffering, as much as any individual. But it sees
suffering through the eyes of Love and Unity. Something we cannot fathom.

Interesting questions A1, let me answer with another . Why does a painter bother to paint when he can already see the image he or she wants to portray in their mind's eye? Or why does a musician play a song if he or she can already hear the melody in their head?

The one thing we can say about the infinite creator is that they are infinitely creative. Perhaps if the nature of the creator is creativity they are seeking simply to explore the infinite limits of their creativity just for the sheer joy of it.

(05-29-2014, 04:42 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]The creator seems to be more than happy to see entire species of life destroyed with no experience gained.

Free Will is the first distortion, and the absolute cornerstone of everything that Ra conveyed.

it might seem as though there is 'waste' (no experience gained), but even in stagnancy, there is an opportunity to reflect on that condition.

re: learning potential:

Quote:28.14 Questioner: Is there any reason for some portions being much more efficient in learning?

Ra: I am Ra. Is there any reason for some to learn more quickly than others? Look, if you wish, to the function of the will … the, shall we say, attraction to the upward spiraling line of light.

(05-29-2014, 08:19 PM)Spaced Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting questions A1, let me answer with another . Why does a painter bother to paint when he can already see the image he or she wants to portray in their mind's eye? Or why does a musician play a song if he or she can already hear the melody in their head?

The one thing we can say about the infinite creator is that they are infinitely creative. Perhaps if the nature of the creator is creativity they are seeking simply to explore the infinite limits of their creativity just for the sheer joy of it.

You give a list of reasons why a unveiled society will likely remain daydreaming in simple shacks in the middle of the forest, rather than create advanced technological civilizations.

A painter bothers to paint because he prefers a material object rather than an imaginary one; He prefers external validation of his work rather than complete satisfaction with himself and his imagination. Somewhere in his spiritual evolution he was convinced that it was more honorable within his duties to himself to share his work in material than to remain satisfied in oneness with the creator. The self's love created wisdom that was his skill in painting. The same applies to the musician.

Creativity is inherent when the self shares the self to another. The level of abstraction is what comes into our analysis. The abstraction of our artists and musicians is due to a great desire to share the self with others due to our history as a people and our patterns of showing ourselves to one another.

Our people seek great validation and, in my view, is but one aspect of an infinite creation that seeks to create in numerous visions of reality.

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(05-29-2014, 08:28 PM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2014, 04:42 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]The creator seems to be more than happy to see entire species of life destroyed with no experience gained.

Free Will is the first distortion, and the absolute cornerstone of everything that Ra conveyed.

it might seem as though there is 'waste' (no experience gained), but even in stagnancy, there is an opportunity to reflect on that condition.

re: learning potential:

Quote:28.14 Questioner: Is there any reason for some portions being much more efficient in learning?

Ra: I am Ra. Is there any reason for some to learn more quickly than others? Look, if you wish, to the function of the will … the, shall we say, attraction to the upward spiraling line of light.

I'll never claim it as a waste. I rather attempted to convey the possibility the creator enjoys very minimalistic creations that seemingly have very minimal signification in vast destruction or otherwise... Perhaps the first octaves were just full of very unintelligent animals that reached the creator in a very uninformed state?

There is reflection but perhaps it's just the experience and beauty for the sake of itself this all exists?

Quote:Why does the Creator desire to know itself?

What has man ever loved (in the divine ecstacy sense of the term) apart from his unconscious?

Quote:A painter bothers to paint because he prefers a material object rather than an imaginary one; He prefers external validation of his work rather than complete satisfaction with himself and his imagination. Somewhere in his spiritual evolution he was convinced that it was more honorable within his duties to himself to share his work in material than to remain satisfied in oneness with the creator. The self's love created wisdom that was his skill in painting. The same applies to the musician.

LOL maybe they want to share?

(05-29-2014, 12:28 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Why do we go through several stages of growth to become all things?

Because each density threshold results in a quantum leap in consciousness. Each density is a major shift in perception towards oneness. It's like tuning to a radio station, and to reach the desired station you have to pass through all the frequencies in between.

(05-29-2014, 12:28 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Why does the creator desire to know itself? Why is this knowing of the self significant to it?

The value in the knowing of self is not in the end result, but the process. The foundation of knowingness, which is consciousness, already knows all things. The continuum of beingness, which is intelligent infinity (8th density), contains the continuum of knowingness within it. The knowing self process is valuable, because it encapsulates "not knowingness", or "ignorance", which is the one thing that escapes the the native omniscience of "all knowingness". You can't experience growth in omniscience. So separation has a purpose, and is valuable.

Well, it doesn't really "escape" omniscience, or infinity, but it creates, for lack of better word, lakes, rivers, and streams of consciousness which diverge from the ocean of infinity.

We confuse these streams of consciousness for our reality because the consciousness in the stream cannot see the ocean anymore, even though its life force still flows from it and to it.

(05-29-2014, 12:28 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Is it the present moments people experience the creator values, or is it the completion of every soul and every octave it values most? Is it both at once in an infinite present moment? Or am I missing the point?

It values beingness in all its infinite manifestations.

I think we far too often try to anthropomorphize the creator when we demand that there has to be value beyond that ascribed to ourselves to those experiences we personally, and subjectively, deem to be desirable (and thus valuable). Every level of vibration of the creator from 8th density down to 1st density is doing what it does, based on the information, consciousness, and knowingness it has available to it. It is free to explore whatever it deems to be valuable. Nothing is better or worse, except in relative and subjective terms.

I don't believe anything is added to, or subtracted from the creator through these sojourns which equal our experiences. The macrocosmic infinite one blinks neither at the darkness, nor at the light.

Have you ever felt the unpleasantness of being too cold, and then the subsequent satisfaction of being warmed up (or vice versa)? Or the pain of hunger, and the absolute pleasure of eating a delicious meal? Or how about feeling super lonely and then the warm comforting embrace of a loved one?

The reward for exploring the inversion of oneness called separation is that there is no greater bliss than reemerging from that into the pure positive energy of oneness. Without that exploration of negativity, the bliss of that contrasting energy transfer could not be experienced. Think of it as the build up to the ultimate cosmic orgasm.

But, as an aside, why does there have to be a point to it? We are beingness. There is no nothingness. Beingness is infinity. It contains all things. The journey we take in separation is for our own amusement, in some cosmic sense. It has its pros and cons. But its just a game, because ultimately, there is no loss.

(05-29-2014, 03:26 PM)Bring4th_Austin Wrote: [ -> ]But does the Creator value experience that does not offer growth or movement upwards? Why does the Creator desire to know itself? I've never seen or experienced satisfactory answers to these questions. They may be part of the mystery in which our being rises and falls.

*I think* the creator values all of his creation equally.

IMO, just bc The Ra Material says the creator desires to know itself doesn't necessarily make this a true statement.

I believe the creator is something that's unchangeable - & without desire. Therefore, I think it is something that's complete & this would mean the creator already knows all there is to be known.

I was once a Wilcock follower - he teaches that ALL channelings are roughly 5% accurate.

(05-30-2014, 11:21 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]I was once a Wilcock follower - he teaches that ALL channelings are roughly 5% accurate.

I used to think I was channeling a 5th density anthro being, which I was going to create a website for. The channelings contained the concept of language being very important and such things. I can say that it was probably only 5% accurate. My conscious mind got in the way much of the time. The only true way is through trance channeling like Carla did. Which one cannot do by themselves.

(05-29-2014, 03:27 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]For me it's the destination, not the journey that I value.

Maybe that's why you're stuck within this never ending loop. You can't get to the destination without work within the journey. To disregard the journey would be akin to looking at a glass of water and trying to experience it's refreshing quality after it has been drank.

(05-30-2014, 11:39 AM)Jeremy Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-29-2014, 03:27 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]For me it's the destination, not the journey that I value.

Maybe that's why you're stuck within this never ending loop. You can't get to the destination without work within the journey. To disregard the journey would be akin to looking at a glass of water and trying to experience it's refreshing quality after it has been drank.

I probably should have said enjoy rather than value. I do find value in the experiences. Although they are pretty bland when they're not scary.

(05-30-2014, 11:21 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the creator is something that's unchangeable - & without desire. Therefore, I think it is something that's complete & this would mean the creator already knows all there is to be known.

This is how I see it as well, isis.

To be fair, there are an infinity of vibrational levels to the creator, and the illusion looks different at every level. But if we are specifically referring to the broadest manifestation of the creator, intelligent infinity, I also believe it is unchanging, all knowing, and desireless.

But in being all knowing, it also knows with absolutely infinite scope, intensity, and precision what it is like to *not* know everything. And since that particular knowing is part of that omniscience, we confuse that apprehension of infinite intelligence as our reality. Our experience of reality is *just* the creator knowing what that is like. It is one of the uncountable probable realities enfolded in that infinite consciousness. And in that wake of that infinitely powerful knowing, that infinitely powerful imagination, it appears absolutely like a real reality of separation, even though that cannot actually be.

These are the illusory streams of consciousness I was talking about before.

Spiritual growth = more babes

lol karl, you gigolo.


For me it's a process/concept of;

remembering (consciously awakening to each 'new internal stage')
to
forget (let go, live fully and don't forget to laf)
again.

(05-31-2014, 12:08 AM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]

(05-30-2014, 11:21 AM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]I believe the creator is something that's unchangeable - & without desire. Therefore, I think it is something that's complete & this would mean the creator already knows all there is to be known.

This is how I see it as well, isis.

To be fair, there are an infinity of vibrational levels to the creator, and the illusion looks different at every level.  But if we are specifically referring to the broadest manifestation of the creator, intelligent infinity, I also believe it is unchanging, all knowing, and desireless.

But in being all knowing, it also knows with absolutely infinite scope, intensity, and precision what it is like to *not* know everything.  And since that particular knowing is part of that omniscience, we confuse that apprehension of infinite intelligence as our reality.  Our experience of reality is *just* the creator knowing what that is like.  It is one of the uncountable probable realities enfolded in that infinite consciousness.  And in that wake of that infinitely powerful knowing, that infinitely powerful imagination, it appears absolutely like a real reality of separation, even though that cannot actually be.

These are the illusory streams of consciousness I was talking about before.

I agree with everything you say except for desire. I believe the creators "desire" is so pure and so loving that desire undermines it and slanders it. However I believe the creator does have directed will, and I don't think we would b here with out the creators desire to or will. I believe the desire of the creator is found within every one of your own desires., and the overarching desire Is to create an effecient, exciting and loving experience/experiences for it's children. I think the creator sacrificed himself in becoming these octaves. To me its more about that. Knowing the one infinite majestic one. Laid it all down for manyness and the potential of love. That having all power and being immortal meant nothing and that love held all the keys. You are like a sweet little baby to the creator.

Its about the delicate small moments. I also believe the story of our creator. Can be found within all of us, and our mentalities. The progression of life cycles. Our depression all of it is important and is a piece of the story. I do believe the creator had a period were you could call it destructive or evil. I also believe the creator went through depression and love brought it out of the depression. I believe we die because in a sense I believe the creator sacrificed space and mentality for us. I believe he became pure love and all of our emotional fields aka the spirit.

I believe !an makes all his greatest discoveries by accident, because the creator found his greatest find on accident.

Thank you all for your great insights
I would like to offer some points to my perspective

On suffering and pain:
I would say pain and suffering the way we experience it are unique to our density. Suffering in a state of seperation feels very different from pain experienced in the state of connectedness.
Although those feelings are way beyond pleasant, only if one has experienced a state of complete seperation it is that connectedness can be truly valued.
Only when seperation has been experienced absolutely can the eternal truth of unity be truly accepted and valued.
The deepest suffering leads to deepest connectedness, I would say.

Free will:
It is almost if not completely beyond comprehension, if tries to imagine, how the only one complete and undivided entity, the creator, can "create" the illusion of seperate beings, on whatever level.
Only free will ensures, that there is any experience gained. Otherwise, there would be no "autonomous" entities, that could really experience anything.
The whole creation would not make much sense.
It would be like playing poker with yourself, in a way possible but utterly useless.

The potential of "destruction"
Nothing is ever lost, nothing can ever be lost.
Human being can die, but their lives go on. A species can become extinct on a physical level, the energy of it can never be lost. A planet ca be destroyed, but its energy canno be lost, nor can its existence in space/time where it "existed" be erased.
A soul cannot really be lost. It could decide to end its existence, according to my information, but it would be absorbed in the creator again or maybe the logos ( not sure) and thus wont be lost.

The eternal moment
Everything exists in the eternal moment. This is probably not experiencable as a constant state on 3D planes, but I assume many have experienced this once in a while.
The creator resides outside the "creation" while simultaneously being every part of creation.
So he she it will probably experience any experience available simultaneously in one single eternal moment.
Experiencing one moment after the other, one stage of evolution afterthe other is especially the deal within third density and I assume, this will gradually change, the higher the density.
For the creator there would be only the eternal moment in which also seperation and a sequence of time is being experienced.

Desire and completeness of the creator
For me, the creator is beyond comprehension. The closest I can get would be the image of a constantly accelerating explosion.
The creator would already be absolutely anything that can ever be experienced, while the endresult of experience leads to new potential which would already have been explored, which the creator would already have been from the beginning.
Infinity brought into completely deficient words...

physical spiritual manifestation project