Bring4th

Should a person be able to speak their minds however they wish as long as the person goes away when asked?

This seems like a extremely loaded question

A question nonetheless.

is this yellow ray catalyst?

how one interfaces with other-selves, and is able to work with them in a constructive fashion?

to be able to deal with rejection etc.

Sure, you are 'able' to do as you please, but the question is then, what are you accomplishing?

I think speaking ones mind in a manner that is sensitive and understanding to the receiving ear is the balance.

Is there or is there not a right and wrong way to speak?

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(06-29-2014, 04:50 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]is this yellow ray catalyst?

how one interfaces with other-selves, and is able to work with them in a constructive fashion?

to be able to deal with rejection etc.

Indeed. What is constructive and accepting of rejection is subject to much discussion.

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(06-29-2014, 05:12 AM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, you are 'able' to do as you please, but the question is then, what are you accomplishing?

Showing my desires and beliefs genuinely so work can be honestly done with others, rather than pretending to agree with people and pretending to care about their desires and lying about them being like my own.

Then you have answered your own question.

is the mind something personal or universal?

The universal mind is personal. The personal mind is universal.

I find that no matter what you think, feel, or desire, the reactions generated by others involving catalyst in all its forms serve as a mirror and a guide for refinement. I've spoken very openly in the past and all it did was generate negative reactions or create disagreement. That must mean that I wasn't creating understanding or pursuing truth in the best of ways, because you can only give what another is asking for.

"The lessons to be learned vary. Almost always these lessons include patience, tolerance, and the ability for the light touch."

"We can suggest an attempt to become aware of the other-self as self and thus do that action which is needed by other-self, understanding from the other-self’s intelligence and awareness. [..] However, it is a delicate matter to be of service, and compassion, sensitivity, and an ability to empathize are helpful in avoiding the distortions of man-made intelligence and awareness."

Too often we are caught up in our own needs or own understanding of how things are or should be communicated. I think that's why in the choice card the person is walking into danger. To me, service involves walking amongst the disorder and allowing it to be, rather than trying to constantly create order.

Why do I need to be refined by others and not myself alone? Why am I not capable of being correct and the others having an understanding that is not appropriate for me?

This is a large topic. When it comes to harmonizing personal relationships, which is what I feel is the central theme of the material, we must certainly reveal our truest feelings and desires, expressing the turmoil within us. We're supposed to own our feelings every step of the way and be allowed to want what we want, I agree. But a lot of the time there is a blockage/insight you're not recognizing.

There was catalyst involving me and an ex, where we constantly butted heads on two issues. There were things I expected of her and truly did need of her, but she could be pretty selfish. Eventually I realized they were issues on my end, because if there were things I had addressed before meeting her the catalyst wouldn't have been an issue. Her selfishness was actually the way in which I was withholding myself from others. This illusion is incredibly tricky and is always mirroring us. So while there was an opportunity for growth on her end, you can't always expect things of people. In other words there is no right or wrong, and a lot of times if you want something, you're going to have to address it yourself and not depend on the other.

Since everything is one energy, I think we're supposed to learn how to move with the push and pull..letting the energy flow naturally. We have to learn when it's appropriate to take and when to give, since the other is yourself, and not have everything extend top-down from us. It's circular.

If the "I" is always "correct", then since the other is self, they are also correct. Which means that if there is ever going to be any kind of movement, you're going to have to realize that many times you're going to be "wrong".

Icaro I have been happily wrong many times and I take what I, and I alone, feel is "right" from the situation. Even as I am humbled every time, I feel no desire to be only taught by others and their word alone, without my judgement making the final call.

I am so freaking happy to be wrong. I am not happy to depend another for learning what is right and wrong. That is utter stupidity to me.

This forum is telling me to "just integrate" and forget about my judgement. That kind of thinking can just fork right off.

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I feel like the one who runs my life here. If I start delegating it to the highest bidder, I am throwing dice with my life.

(06-30-2014, 11:24 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]This forum is telling me to "just integrate" and forget about my judgement.

With me at least, you're not listening to what I'm saying..it's a balance. There are three instances above where I agree that our own judgment is important.

(06-30-2014, 11:24 AM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Icaro I have been happily wrong many times and I take what I, and I alone, feel is "right" from the situation. Even as I am humbled every time, I feel no desire to be only taught by others and their word alone, without my judgement making the final call.

I am so freaking happy to be wrong. I am not happy to depend another for learning what is right and wrong. That is utter stupidity to me.

This forum is telling me to "just integrate" and forget about my judgement. That kind of thinking can just fork right off.

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I feel like the one who runs my life here. If I start delegating it to the highest bidder, I am throwing dice with my life.

If your happiness depends on learning all by yourself, well then you are in for a rough time on planet Earth. Learning can only take place when there is an other self present, which is one of the reasons we are here. How much have you taught yourself of compassion? Of love? Of sacrifice? Of HATE? And how much have others taught you of these? Considering all learning is experience, you have learned EVERYTHING from others. You haven't learned a single thing about anything by yourself. From the friends you have/don't have, to the walks in the park you have taken/not taken, to the the looks you have unconsciously not noticed from others. All the way back to the spankings you received as a child and the hugs and kisses you received from your grandmother, an infant in her arms. You have learned everything you have ever learned from another person.

The first step to loving speech and mindful listening is understanding the above. Understanding that your life is not your own, that it belongs to the world. You think you make your own choices and go where you please, but in reality you make the choices you've learned to make, you go places where you've learned how to travel there. You think you are free, yet you have never tasted freedom, nor would you know what it feels like it you had. You are a child of Earth, and have been born into bondage, as have we all.

When you truly understand this, it opens the door to actual freedom. When you see you are utterly dependent on everyone else in the world, not just on others for power, water, shelter, but also others actions for learning about the world. When you see and understand this, it opens the door to a love quite pure. A love Ra has spoken of, and a love we have all experienced, if ever so fleeting. That love that sees beyond appearance, that sees yourself in others. Now that you finally understand you depend on others, it is quite fitting that you in fact ARE others. This is gratitude. This is the way to loving speech and mindful listening.

The only freedom, or at least the FIRST freedom, is gratitude. Gratitude for all the gifts we've been given, all the chains that have bound us to others our whole life. Grateful for our life, since it wouldn't be here without others. And how does gratitude speak? Does it need others to understand it, regardless of their own needs? Does it require to be heard? Does it make flashy statements and claims to gather attention? Does it desire a certain view people have about it, making statements to that end? Does it need to be right? No.

How would you speak if your goal was to manifest gratitude and open as love with every word, every syllable? As humans, we rarely experience things as pure as this, so lets talk in experience. How do you speak when your child is born? When you see a loved one after so long apart? When you find that perfect flower in the garden. When the sun sets on the horizon. Do you demand the sun understand you? That it hear your truth? Do you tell the sun you are a super yogi and are really quite humble? I doubt it. If you are like most people, in these moments of serenity and love you likely just stare in awe, cry, hug, kiss, etc. THIS is loving speech and mindful listening, and it isn't done with too many words.

Not that words shouldn't be used, but in these moments of extreme love, we seem to be so much more careful with our words, as if it is hard to say even the kindest words. Words are a tool, the most powerful tool we humans have ever invented. So speak your words, but speak them as love would, and hear them as gratitude would.

When people are telling you to "just integrate," I am confident this is what their unconscious is trying to communicate to you. You, as so many other B4thers (me included), make posts that are clearly seeking attention for attentions sake. Trying to have people understand us here because few will in our offline life. Building an avatar on this forum, one that we aren't living up to, but one that we want people to believe in, so we can believe it ourself. "Just integrate," is a reminder. There doesn't have to be conflict. We say harsh things sometimes and we read things we don't want to hear, but there is a bottom line. We are a community, and we are all deserving of love. I don't care if Adonai One is as humble as he claims or if zenmaster is as much a blunt dickhead offline as he is online (love you doe), or if MichaelD really thinks he is right about anything at all. The bottom line is this place was created to share love, and its primal intent can still be tasted today, right now. We all love each other, and that is the only speech that matters.

Thanks MichaelD, I like what you wrote.

(07-06-2014, 12:34 PM)MichaelD Wrote: [ -> ]Understanding that your life is not your own, that it belongs to the world.

F*** the king.

I may have inherited mental concepts from others by I certainly can build on them on my own without anybody around. Myth busted, commie.

Better dead than red, I say.

I say better dead than to be unloved.

Love is something that is inherent, if the self allows itself to experience it. It need not be provided but can be.

(07-06-2014, 01:45 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-06-2014, 12:34 PM)MichaelD Wrote: [ -> ]Understanding that your life is not your own, that it belongs to the world.

F*** the king.

I may have inherited mental concepts from others by I certainly can build on them on my own without anybody around. Myth busted, commie.

Better dead than red, I say.

The fallacy at the root of your confusion is that you could ever be alone. You cannot. In the deepest of meditations, before life and after death, you are not, never have been and never will be alone. This isn't just some metaphysical idea, this is fact. By merely reading this I am forever imprinted within you. I have changed your evolution. The next mental concept you build upon when you are "by yourself", I will be there and have had some effect on the outcome. This is what Ra means when he says he can be with us always. He isn't floating above us waiting, he lives in our consciousness, literally within our neurons. This is why mindfulness is so important, because our actions quite literally effect the entire universe.

No Adonai One, you cannot build on anything on your own., for the simple fact that you are not alone. This doesn't mean you aren't special and can't do anything, on the contrary, it means you are special beyond measure and you can do effect the entire universe. The greatest minds of planet earth have almost universally attributed their works to muses, in whatever form.

So, Immanuela , what you're saying is that your mom is my mom too, but that somehow I'm also your uncle, right?

Whether I am alone or not, I don't owe gratitude, money or anything to anybody. That's my main point. If you are going to want to infringe on my free will because you believe I am expected to be a certain way or pay a certain tribute, you will have to use violence against me.

The relationships are irrelevant to me: I will dictate how I live my life. Again, that's my main point. Unity is wonderful but I do not see unity as my life being ran by the highest bidder.

This is my life and you will have to fight me to make me do anything with it against my will. I will live free or I will die, that's my motto.

I do not live for anybody because I have to. I live for people only because I choose to.

That's nice man , Adonai, it's really nice man. I appreciate you now.

You all have infinite effects on me but I owe you f*** all for it. You can claim your royalties when I am dead.

F*** the king. F*** the kingsguard. F*** the city.

Dude, we don't want anything from you. Not even in the slightest.

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Yes, you are the lord and master of all, you are king of your life, god amongst gods. So what else is new?

I want things from Adonai, gimme things Adonai

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Anarchy on B4th !

*gives things* <3

(07-06-2014, 03:20 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Whether I am alone or not, I don't owe gratitude, money or anything to anybody. That's my main point. If you are going to want to infringe on my free will because you believe I am expected to be a certain way or pay a certain tribute, you will have to use violence against me.

The relationships are irrelevant to me: I will dictate how I live my life. Again, that's my main point. Unity is wonderful but I do not see unity as my life being ran by the highest bidder.

This is my life and you will have to fight me to make me do anything with it against my will. I will live free or I will die, that's my motto.

I do not live for anybody because I have to. I live for people only because I choose to.

Your ego screams for attention. I shall quench it's thirst. You misunderstand friend. Nobody said you owe anyone gratitude. If gratitude is given out of debt, it isn't gratitude anyway. That doesn't change the fact that gratitude is the key that opens OH so many doors. Doors with treasures the egoic mind cannot even comprehend.

Don't be grateful for anything if that's your wish. You just asked about speech and I suggested that gratitude is key for loving speech and mindful listening. Let's put the ego to rest. I grow weary

MichaelD, I automatically have a instinctual response when somebody tells me I have a owner that is not myself.

I am satisfied and in love with other people, Michael, but not to the point to where I can say I owe my life to others or where I live solely for the sake of others.

I unremorsefully have a "ego" in that I have self-respect. I will listen to people and I will give love by expressing myself in that people might appreciate my existence as-it-is without censor.

However, I will not put my life in the hands of others. That is my responsibility. My life is mine to run. I appreciate others in how they are regardless of what they do.