Is the universe a fair and just place? Does everyone get exactly what they deserve, good and bad? Are we fully responsible for everything in our lives? Does 'stuff' just happen sometimes that is completely out of our control/power? Thank you
(07-05-2014, 05:28 AM)Folk-love Wrote: [ -> ]Does 'stuff' just happen sometimes that is completely out of our control/power?
You would think that weather is totally random and out of our control.
But..................
(07-05-2014, 05:28 AM)Folk-love Wrote: [ -> ]Is the universe a fair and just place? Does everyone get exactly what they deserve, good and bad? Are we fully responsible for everything in our lives? Does 'stuff' just happen sometimes that is completely out of our control/power? Thank you
i think/hope these are the right answers: yes, yes, yes, & no
(07-05-2014, 05:28 AM)Folk-love Wrote: [ -> ]Is the universe a fair and just place? Does everyone get exactly what they deserve, good and bad? Are we fully responsible for everything in our lives? Does 'stuff' just happen sometimes that is completely out of our control/power? Thank you
I think it's fundamentally 'karmic'. And by that, I don't mean punishment, but rather it is consequential.
Can't get the stink off
He's been hanging round for days
Comes like a comet
Suckered you but not your friends
One day he'll get to you
And teach you how to be a holy cow
You do it to yourself, you do
And that's what really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself
Just you, you and no one else
You do it to yourself
You do it to yourself
Don't get my sympathy
Hanging out the 15th floor
You've changed the locks three times
He still comes reeling through the door
One day I'll get to you
And teach you how to get to purest hell
You do it to yourself, you do
And that's what really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself
Just you, you and no one else
You do it to yourself
You do it to yourself
You do it to yourself, you do
And that's what really hurts
Is that you do it to yourself
Just you, you and no one else
You do it to yourself
You do it to yourself.. yourself.. yourself..
Yes, but unfortunately the justice is so vast we may never see it in a particular lifetime.
The only justice is the void and its rebirth. Everything will return to source and form a new universe. That is the only balance in the scale. Everything else is open and free.
There is truly no justice. There is only what we choose. We only interpret things as just when we do not desire something the universe provides and wish to overcome it. Karma is self-imposed. Consequences can be interpreted and neglected however we wish.
We are the creator.
Quote:Ra: ...This point only becomes important when you consider that when all of creation in its infinity has reached a spiritual gravitational mass of sufficient nature, the entire creation infinitely coalesces; the light seeking and finding its source and thusly ending the creation and beginning a new creation much as you consider the black hole, as you call it, with its conditions of infinitely great mass at the zero point from which no light may be seen as it has been absorbed.
Quote:Ra: ...Conversely, the blackness of the black hole, metaphysically speaking, is a concentration of white light being systematically absorbed once again into the One Creator. Finally, this absorption into the One Creator continues until all the infinity of creations have attained sufficient spiritual mass in order that all form once again the great central sun, if you would so imagine it, of the intelligent infinity awaiting potentiation by free will. Thus the transition of the octave is a process which may be seen to enter into timelessness of unimaginable nature. To attempt to measure it by your time measures would be useless.
Therefore, the concept of moving through the black hole of the ultimate spiritual gravity well and coming immediately into the next octave misses the subconcept or corollary of the portion of this process which is timeless.
A atheist friend of mine told me the universe was fair, but there were a lot of variables.
Everything is truly fair for everything will be accepted as desirable and there is nothing that can be done about it.
(07-05-2014, 05:28 AM)Folk-love Wrote: [ -> ]Is the universe a fair and just place? Does everyone get exactly what they deserve, good and bad? Are we fully responsible for everything in our lives? Does 'stuff' just happen sometimes that is completely out of our control/power? Thank you
I think that everything balances out in the end. But as Guardian noted, it isn't the kind of justice that happens swiftly from our human perspective. Also, the balance isn't always what human beings would judge as "balance" or "justice".
The way karma works, from my perspective is: whatever you do that brings you out of alignment with unity, you then automatically, and unconsciously, project those necessary experiences into your future that will bring you back into alignment with unity.
It is much like a pond with a rock tossed in it. The ripples eventually balance out, until all is still again.
Now, there are different ways of balancing this karma. There is an STS way and an STO way, which are completely opposite of one another.
From the STS perspective, they take from others, and the universe continuously takes from them to balance this. Which they try to balance or offset by taking even more from others. Taking from others is like affirming your own lack, and this is what manifests the need to keep taking from others. It perpetuates the thoughtform. The pull upon others is constant. But that is the picnic they choose. As strange and foreign as this may sound to the positively polarized here, this is their way of balancing their natures -- by extreme absorption of prana from others.
From the STO perspective, they give to others, and the universe gives back to them in direct proportion. Giving to others is an affirmation of abundance (it affirms you have something to give). That is how the karma balances for positive acts. They receive their energy from the universe.
This is a very simplified explanation, but how it works in a nutshell.
Okay, so the universe is a series of conditional systems that gives people paychecks for giving, and gives debts to those who take. Sounds like capitalism. It really works well for this world.
(07-05-2014, 03:09 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, so the universe is a series of conditional systems that gives people paychecks for giving, and gives debts to those who take. Sounds like capitalism. It really works well for this world.
You are comparing human implementations, with their inherent limitations, to universal balancing that is a result of contact with intelligent infinity.
Surely you can understand that is not even remotely a valid comparison?
(07-05-2014, 03:04 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ]From the STO perspective, they give to others, and the universe gives back to them in direct proportion. Giving to others is an affirmation of abundance (it affirms you have something to give). That is how the karma balances for positive acts. They receive their energy from the universe.
This is a very simplified explanation, but how it works in a nutshell.
I like when I am in the right heartspace to give to others without expectation of return. I want to have blue-ray compassion in addition to green-ray.
(07-05-2014, 03:14 PM)anagogy Wrote: [ -> ] (07-05-2014, 03:09 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Okay, so the universe is a series of conditional systems that gives people paychecks for giving, and gives debts to those who take. Sounds like capitalism. It really works well for this world.
You are comparing human implementations, with their inherent limitations, to universal balancing that is a result of contact with intelligent infinity.
Surely you can understand that is not even remotely a valid comparison?
I understand your theory has no remote tangible quality or citation in the Ra material. All I am left with is a clear similarity with authoritarian-capitalist ideology.
(07-05-2014, 03:16 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]I understand your theory has no remote tangible quality or citation in the Ra material. All I am left with is a clear similarity with authoritarian-capitalist ideology.
Sorry, I didn't realize I was limited to citing the Ra material when answering the question of: is the universe just?
Okay, Adonai, the Ra material mentions karma. What do you think Ra meant by karma, or spiritual inertia, "the ways of balancing"?
Also, what is authoritarian about it exactly? There is no authority dealing out what you are evidently interpreting as punishments and rewards. Its a simple matter of: you get out of alignment with oneness, you then naturally attract those experiences required to get back into alignment.
It is about exactly "authoritarian" as water seeking its level.
Do I have to repay everything I take?
I've heard it said that God (or higher self) doesn't give us more than we can handle. So in that sense it's fair. But what about those people who die tragically, or are in horrific conditions? They must have planned those pre-incarnatively. Not knowing how tough it would really be when they got to this side.
I take it pain is not a deterrent to incarnating, and is often used to teach lessons. Earth is a difficult school, if it is a school. Might as well say stage.
(07-05-2014, 03:24 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Do I have to repay everything I take?
To the extent that it detrimentally affects other points of consciousness.
Karma is about how you relate to other consciousness. What you send out, comes back. What you take away, gets taken away from you. When you hurt others, you are hurting yourself. When you help others, you are helping yourself. It is the oneness calling you back to awareness of your own essential nature. Imbalance calls out for balance. The question calls out for the answer. Water seeks its level.
In the STS perspective, they are not terribly interested in realizing that nature, so they balance their selfish, absorbent nature, by absorbing more and more and more of whatever is taken from them by universal balancing. They see others as a resource to replenish their neverending appetites (appetites which are generated by the constant taking from others, which, as I said, simply affirms their lack).
There is an inflow and an outflow of energy to and from the universe. STO radiate outwards, and the universe flows inwards to balance this. STS absorb inwards, and the universe flows outwards from them. It's simple balancing.
Are you going to answer my question now?
Balancing and polarity has nothing to do with karma.
Quote:35.1: ...This entity polarized continuously in a positive fashion in the universal sense while, in a less universal sense, developing a pattern of what may be called karma; this karma having to do with inharmonious relationship distortions with the mate/teacher.
It's an artificial contrivance according to Ra:
Quote:34.5 Questioner: If an entity develops what is called a karma in an incarnation, is there then programming that sometimes occurs so that he will experience catalyst that will enable him to get to a point of forgiveness thereby alleviating the karma?
Ra: I am Ra. This is, in general, correct. However, both self and any involved other-self may, at any time through the process of understanding, acceptance, and forgiveness, ameliorate these patterns. This is true at any point in an incarnative pattern. Thus one who has set in motion an action may forgive itself and never again make that error. This also brakes or stops what you call karma.
If I just sit on my ass in the inner planes and do nothing, will the universe destroy my soul for not giving back the experience and light it gave to me?
Quote:34.4 Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?
Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.
All that is needed is forgiveness and acceptance of the self and karmic repayment ends.
Quote:17.20: ...When the entity had become able to integrate or synthesize all experiences, the entity began to speak to other-selves and teach/learn what it had felt during the preceding years to be of an worthwhile nature. The entity was absolved karmically of the destruction of an other-self when it was in its last portion of lifetime and spoke upon what you would call a cross saying, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do.” In forgiveness lies the stoppage of the wheel of action, or what you call karma.
Fortunately I've never hurt anyone so I don't believe I've incurred any substantial karma. I've already forgiven myself.
This made me laugh A1: "If I just sit on my ass in the inner planes and do nothing, will the universe destroy my soul for not giving back the experience and light it gave to me?"
It would be nice if I could live in the inner planes, or visit them more often.
(07-05-2014, 03:47 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Balancing and polarity has nothing to do with karma.
Your opinion, which you are entitled to hold.
(07-05-2014, 03:47 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]If I just sit on my ass in the inner planes and do nothing, will the universe destroy my soul for not giving back the experience and light it gave to me?
It sounds like you are seriously misunderstanding the concept I'm presenting here. It sounds like you are thinking of it as a bunch of "i owe you's". It's not even remotely like that.
As I said, it is about as neutral as water seeking its level. Also, there are different kinds of karma. Water seeking its level could be viewed as a kind of "physical karma". It is just balancing.
Separation will eventually seek unity. So you wouldn't be able to sit on the inner planes forever. You would eventually be compelled to movement and change.
Why does forgiveness ameliorate a certain kind of karma?
Because it is a way of [drum roll] *
balancing*.
The experiences that are attracted due to karma are imbalanced unity working itself back to balance. Forgiveness is letting go of imbalance.
anagogy, can I not theoretically go out and kill a bunch of people in sheer negatively-polarizing bliss, die, forgive and accept myself completely, continue reincarnating and have no guilt and nothing to repay to these people at all?
Unless the killing of those people harvested you negative. That would seem like karmic retribution.
I want to be harvested negative. I want to slaughter people on alien planets, gemini. That would be a reward for me.
I wonder why you offer seemingly STO advice. Are you trying to deceive?
(07-05-2014, 04:01 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]anagogy, can I not theoretically go out and kill a bunch of people in sheer negatively-polarizing bliss, die, forgive and accept myself completely, continue reincarnating and have no guilt and nothing to repay to these people at all?
Doubtful.
The degree of forgiveness would needs be directly proportionate to the amount of pain you were directly responsible for.
Note that in the example you quoted above, that Jesus was only absolved karmically of the death of another, when he forgave the people who were doing the same thing to him? Forgiveness stops the wheel of karma, but it has be proportionate to the imbalance.
In other words, its harder to forgive yourself for heinous acts than non heinous acts. Especially in a pure soul state.
For one thing, to forgive yourself you would have to fully understand the ramifications of your actions. That in itself is a study.
What if I choose to see incarnation as a game and see that death was equivalent to just losing a character in a game?
I felt bad for running over a snake, so killing a person, even accidentally would require major karmic rebalance. I did forgive myself for killing the snake though. Jesus had to die for karmic rebalancing. I'm not willing to go that far as suffering, though I would lay down my life if someone was going to kill me in a painless manner, like shoot to the head or something like that. But I have to work on my loving of others, even those who would kill me.
(07-05-2014, 04:11 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]What if I choose to see incarnation as a game and see that death was equivalent to just losing a character in a game?
That is pretty much how souls see things anyway in the afterlife. That doesn't really make a difference.
But if you were polarizing negatively, you could theoretically go on a mass killing spree and successfully balance your karma in the STS way I provided above, and as long as you reach self-harvestable grade absorption you could achieve enough balance to make contact with intelligent infinity and harvest to the next density.
Aha, harvesting negative would be disconcerting to me. I don't like power struggles.