Bring4th

I think the closest analogy to what polarization might be like in the next Octave would be "the dreamer" and "the dreamed". But with dreams that consist of stories that are very real, although still an illusion. Anything not united with Infinity is illusion. Only Creator is real.

Anyone else have ideas as to the polarity of the next Octave?

I think in dream, you are potentially a god. You have access to untold knowledge, and in the next Octave there might be no veil. The veil is for purpose of making the choice. Once it's made, it stands for all time.

Aha, this is what my guides tell me.

I think it would be a fascinating existence to be the dreamed. It may start with dreamed and move towards dreamer. Or they could be 2 separate paths from the same starting point.

When in a dream that is real, service to others and service to self are moot. Those polarities have already been explored in "our" Octave.

Well in that way we can take previous octave as Mover/Moved, this octave is then Server/Served and in the next octave I think polarity is dynamic and regards the temperament of beings like Hot/Cold, so Dreamer/Dreamed works well I'd say as the focus would be more about creating the narratives whereas in this octave we are more doing character development.

I would perhaps also call it Imaginer and Imagined.

I always thought that higher densities were about storytelling in this Octave. Creating our experience based on stories. So narrative could apply there too. Though it makes sense to have an entire octave dedicated to imagination.
The next Octave are lightbrings and guardians, so they have a role to play in this Octave as well.

I see dreaming and imagination as being almost synonymous, a fundamental creative expression.

I changed my signature because I'm more an anthro dreamer than an anthro sun. In a dream, you can create and be a star. A dream is so much more. Also changed my wanderer text, because I'm a wanderer of the Logos. I came to bring energies in, and found myself unbalanced since they were too much for me to ground. But I am doing fine.

I have noticed a huge increase in the frequency of your field since you have had these realizations and I found the energy very helpful in opening and expanding my heart.

I don't feel right now I have to stave off the bad thinking. It just hasn't occurred to me lately.
But who knows about later.
I'm glad my field is increasing.
Feeling a bit light headed.

The polarity of the next octave has been chosen by us and will be whatever we choose it be, in these lives or the lives we will all embody in the next octave.

I think it will be like a trillions of years long lucid dream, that actually feels timeless. It will be outside of time, so time measures are useless here. By the time we get there we would have already experienced what it's like to create a star and a galaxy. So dreaming them will be easy.

I'm glad it will be whatever I want it to be.

I hope it's so dense that we remain incarnate forever, never experiencing an afterlife. *grin*

(07-15-2014, 06:19 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]I hope it's so dense that we remain incarnate forever, never experiencing an afterlife. *grin*

Perhaps with a thicker veil, without the benefit of channeling or the Law of One or spiritual guidance. j/k

This is all so crazy.

The more veiling the better but not so thick that we deny our own existence. *grins*

A1, would you want to be veiled in 4D negative? I wonder if you can control your own veiling. So that you don't have to deal with everything at once.

I don't think I'd want a veil in 4D positive.

Alright, let's work with the theoretical paradox of 4th-density with a veil:

In 4D negative, I think one's mind would collapse within a veil that does not allow oneself to surrender to somebody that one perceives as higher than themselves (e.g. one's mind being open to another to the extent of great control and guidance). In other words, there would be no outlet of letting the self "expand" into a higher power that allows greater falsification; People would have to tolerate having limited power that is not enabled by a higher power; Limited dependency. I imagine great torment that can either lead to the greatest self-empowerment or stagnancy and death.

4D positive can theoretically work with a limited veil while still having universal love that is not necessarily endowed by a released veil.

I wish universal love could be felt in 3D readily.

Meditation on what you don't desire in life helps, Gemini Wolf. Becoming aware of what pains you and seeing the love in it can help you feel that universal love. It has helped me.

As far as I have been aware veiling is purely a third-density space/time phenomenon which involved a separation between Matrix and Potentiator of the mind.

Quote:Questioner: I am probably having a problem with the concept of time since it appears that the Logos was aware of the polarization choice. It seems that this choice for polarization at the end of third density is an important philosophical plan for the experience past third density. Am I correct in assuming that this process is a process to create the proper or the desired experience that will take place in the creation after third density is complete?

Ra: I am Ra. These philosophical foundations are those of third density. Above this density there remains the recognition of the architecture of the Logos but without the veils which are so integral a part of the process of making the choice in third density.

Yet we are always veiled to a certain extent from an awareness of all into the highest of densities. One wonders what really varies the level of veiling but arbitrary views of the type of veiling. Never is the distinction of the type of veiling made clear in Ra's words.

Actually, it is.

Quote:Questioner: Well, the idea then was to create some type of veil between Matrix and Potentiator. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

This is the third density veil, designed to make the "mind/body/spirit" in to a complex.

Quote:Firstly, let us establish that both before and after the veil the same conditions existed in time/space; that is, the veiling process is a space/time phenomenon.

Quote:The first beings of mind, body, and spirit were not complex. The experience of mind/body/spirits at the beginning of this octave of experience was singular. There was no third-density forgetting. There was no veil. The lessons of third density are predestined by the very nature of the vibratory rates experienced during this particular density and by the nature of the quantum jump to the vibratory experiences of fourth density.

Quote:The query is not answered easily, for the concept of service to self did not hold sway previous to what we have been calling the veiling process. The necessity for graduation to fourth density is an ability to use, welcome, and enjoy a certain intensity of the white light of the One Infinite Creator.In your own terms at your space/time nexus this ability may be measured by your previously stated percentages of service.

Quote: We cannot speak for those above us, as you would say, in the next quantum or octave of beingness. This is, however, true of this octave of densities. The beings are harvested because they can see and enjoy the light/love of the appropriate density.

The "progress" up the densities isn't a matter of veiling, but a matter of being able to welcome and enjoy a certain degree of Light. In third-density this is done through the making of the choice, in fourth it is done through learning the ways of compassion, and the fifth is accepting the honour/duty of the Law of One.

Quote:There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density. The work that is accomplished in positive fourth is that work whereby the positive social memory complex, having, through slow stages, harmoniously integrated itself, goes forth to aid those of less positive orientation which seek their aid. Thus their service is their work and through this dynamic between the societal self and the other-self which is the object of love, greater and greater intensities of understanding or compassion are attained. This intensity continues until the appropriate intensity of the light may be welcomed. This is fourth-density harvest.

Quote: The fifth-density harvest is of those whose vibratory distortions consciously accept the honor/duty of the Law of One. This responsibility/honor is the foundation of this vibration.

Thus, veiling is a concept which was introduced as a way to intensify the catalyst in third-density so that beings would actually make the choice.

Quote:Ra: I am Ra. You begin to grasp the situation. Let us continue the metaphor of the schooling but consider the scholar as being an entity in your younger years of the schooling process. The entity is fed, clothed, and protected regardless of whether or not the schoolwork is accomplished. Therefore, the entity does not do the homework but rather enjoys playtime, mealtime, and vacation. It is not until there is a reason to wish to excel that most entities will attempt to excel.

Hence, to be motivated to take the choice.

Quote:Questioner: Then prior to the first extension of the first distortion the veil or loss of awareness did not occur. Then, from this I will make the assumption that this veil or loss of remembering consciously that which occurred before the incarnation was the primary tool for extending the first distortion. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Your correctness is limited. This was the first tool.

Questioner: Then from that statement I assume that the Logos contemplating a mechanism to become what it was not first devised the tool of separating the unconscious from the conscious during what we call physical incarnation to achieve its objective? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. Yes.

Questioner: Then from that statement I also assume that many other tools were conceived and used after the first tool of the so-called veil. Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. There have been refinements.

It is the veiling of third-density which produced the full archetypal mind structure.

Quote:Questioner: Now we are getting to what I was trying to determine. Then at this point were there still only nine archetypes and the veil had just been drawn between the Matrix and Potentiator?

Ra: I am Ra. There were nine archetypes and many shadows.

Questioner: By shadows do you mean what I might refer to as the birthing of small archetypical biases?

Ra: I am Ra. Rather we would describe these shadows as the inchoate thoughts of helpful structures not yet fully conceived.

Within the context you preach, I agree. I attempt to discuss the further implications of this concept outside the stricture of the material and the archetypal mind applied to the higher densities. As stated before, this is purely theoretical.

Well you should probably choose another forum besides "Strictly Law of One Material" if you want to do that thoroughly aha I will gladly theorize with you in the appropriate place, in this section of the forum I focus on the Ra Material and its expressions.

Hello Dear Seekers,

(07-16-2014, 05:53 AM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]Well you should probably choose another forum besides "Strictly Law of One Material" if you want to do that thoroughly aha I will gladly theorize with you in the appropriate place, in this section of the forum I focus on the Ra Material and its expressions.

It is not as simply as it seems to state if something is or is not into the boundaries of The Law of One Teachings.
Before I've met Ra's materials I've never reached with my mind so far as to try to determine the nature of Lesson/Beingness of next Octave. In fact I had no names/labels or understanding of non-material to even try to do so.
I would say that as far as One is using terms/labels with understanding presented by Ra, and as far One solely extrapolates in those categories/formulas understanding of whatever One focuses on/at, it is in the boundaries of The Law of One.

Moreover We were already Gifted with Knowledge. Now We seek an Understanding of this Wisdom. As I understand this is main purpose of interactions on this forum. Aside of course from Support and Acceptance of attitudes grown from Wisdom utterly rejected and ridiculed by rest of the World.

(07-15-2014, 03:45 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I think the closest analogy to what polarization might be like in the next Octave would be "the dreamer" and "the dreamed". But with dreams that consist of stories that are very real, although still an illusion. Anything not united with Infinity is illusion. Only Creator is real.

Anyone else have ideas as to the polarity of the next Octave?

I have one or two

Name/Label "Octave" was used by Ra when He/They was/were trying to find proper comparision to explain to third-density-beings how spiritual evolution progress in Creation looks like. He/They compared desities to tones of our music scale - eight is a "new octave" (as I understood it).
Since Ra called Our Sun sub-Logoi and Us sub-sub-Logoi I assumed this is the direction of Evolution in Creation.
Consequences of this assumption are following: sub-Logoi (Sun) creates this part of Creation with all its laws and properties. Since Ra called it as co-Creation I also assumed that "perimeter of this co-Creation" - in which We and Ra dwells together - are a mirror of Creation as a Whole. I understand by this that "becoming Creator" consists of "loops of Infinity Uniting" (as Creator Him-Self is Infinity).

Everything will Unite in this co-Creation into sub-Logoi that created this part of Creation (sub-Creation One might say). As I understand it, all this co-Creation was created for Creator to experience Self in totality of Free Will in/of knowing Self. Therefore all there really is, is Consciousness. Everything else is an Illusion to accommodate this consciousness - including the division on Self and Other-Selves, as well as Matter and "higher densities" which are in some sense defined by matter of this Illusion (as non-material - matter as reference to Self-Understanding/Self-Positioning).
What I'm getting at is that for me to leave this Octave means to become One with everything that is in this co-Creation. In other words to become consciousness of sub-Logoi. This is precise description of my understanding of "leaving the Octave" expression.

In above word consciousness is crucial. Because for example for Us - third density Beings - "The Sun" is huge sphere of constant nuclear explosions. Thanks to Ra's Teachings We know, that material reality is purely a manifestation of non-material in nature consciousness and its longings/seekings for/of experience. Even though I think it's good to refresh Knowledge of Our Sun. Please watch those two, short videos:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jput4lmqVQk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrnGi-q6iWc

They were randomly chosen for one purpose only - to allow You to experience this Star as You are capable in current density - non-directly, via technology.
So, if to assume above assumptions are correct , what would be an experience of a Star like? What really is a "Star"? What have We (Human-Beings) labeled with this term? We can experience this Entity with the Mind and only one sense based on Light - sight.

But than again, "Star" maybe only a "vehicle" of sub-Logoi that is manifested in this Illusion in order to direct process of evolution (upward, spiral, vibrational movement/flow of Light/energy). Thus We do not have any chances to actually "Learn" what sub-Logoi is.

To try to generate a fantasy being in the perimeter of The Law of One Teachings (and gained understanding from it) regarding next Octave, I might write that I don't think there is a polarization as We understand it, Tanner generally explained everything in this subject (with quotes).
I would say, that almost for sure it is a non-material "stage" of division in Creation. But to be honest I don't even know if expression "non-material" means the same in "sub-Logoi Octave", as what it means here, to Us. Since expression "non-material" is indifferentional - do not contain any information what "non-material" is - it should not be important for Us. But I am wondering if there are "stages/phases of non-material Beingness". Seven densities of more and more advanced "non-material Beingness"?

Maybe going further in evolution will help Us understand it better, to gain a perspective.
For our sub-Logoi (Sun), Logoi is Being/Consciousness that created our Galaxy (Milky Way) [next Octave of sub-Logoi - sub-sub-Logoi relation]. Therefore experience gained in next Octave by Star (sub-sub-Logoi) enables "It" to become a Galaxy (sub-Logoi). What kind of experience maybe needed to accomplish such step in evolution?
This line of questioning require for Us to again get back to "label-ism" - what really is a Galaxy? Since I wasn't able to answer this in case of a Star, I have to accept that I have truly no idea what Galaxy really is (even what might be).

I realize that my post contains more questions than answers and i apologize for that. The level of abstract of this divagations is simply beyond my capability of understanding. All I was really able to Share is direction of my thinking in this matter.

Take Care

Maybe knowing the polarity that was harvested from the previous octave can help with envisioning the polarity within the next octave.

Ra 84.22 Wrote:...The harvest from the previous creation was that which included the male and female mind/body/spirit. It was the intention of the original Logoi that entities mate with one another in any fashion which caused a greater polarization. It was determined, after observation of the process of many Logoi, that polarization increased many fold if the mating were not indiscriminate. Consequent Logoi thusly preserved a bias towards the mated relationship which is more characteristic of more disciplined personalities and of what you may call higher densities. The free will of each entity, however, was always paramount and a bias only could be offered.

(07-16-2014, 08:15 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe knowing the polarity that was harvested from the previous octave can help with envisioning the polarity within the next octave.

Ra 84.22 Wrote:...The harvest from the previous creation was that which included the male and female mind/body/spirit. It was the intention of the original Logoi that entities mate with one another in any fashion which caused a greater polarization. It was determined, after observation of the process of many Logoi, that polarization increased many fold if the mating were not indiscriminate. Consequent Logoi thusly preserved a bias towards the mated relationship which is more characteristic of more disciplined personalities and of what you may call higher densities. The free will of each entity, however, was always paramount and a bias only could be offered.

As I understand it, this description does not refer to "previous" Octave but to "earlier", non-veiled Creation. I deduced it from the question to that answer:

Quote:Questioner: Did most Logoi plan, before the veil, to create a system of
random sexual activity or the specific pairing of entities for specific periods
of time, or did they have an objective in this respect?

- and context of the conversations with Ra in this and previous sessions. RA were referring to same Octave of experience as Our current one - to the "same level of experiences"/equal Octave. Sources of this assumption are two:
1) Statement made by Ra regarding "placement" of pre-veil creation - close to the center of Our Galaxy. Further from the center of Milky Way, "later" the Creation;
2) When Ra spoke about pre-veiled Creation, He/They described same conditions (and existence at all) of minds/bodies/spirits. Since veil experiment there are minds/bodies/spirits complexes.

To be honest I am thinking if there is "lower"/"earlier" Octave than in which We currently resides. Main reason for such assumption is fact, that it is third density of this/Our Octave "were", to Being, experiencing Self as a matter, becoming available third aspect of Self - Spirit. From Mind/Body of second density They become Mind/Body/Spirit.
But since divisions/propagation of the Creation are/is infinite, there must be "lower" Octave - its just my own limitations that cause my inability to imagine it.

Regarding higher/next Octave of experience, I was thinking also that if it will be "Lesson of a Star", than for Star to become a Galaxy, this Being/Consciousness would need to share experience of All Stars in the Galaxy.
I would like to recommend beautiful visualization of a movement of a Star as it travels through the Galaxy/Universe/Creation:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCUhm63ioCU

- commentary of the author of this video I perceive as His ways of Seeking and Sharing His Knowledge/Experience with Othe-Selves.


Higher/Next Octave of experience may also be, as We are able to understand it, seven densities of energy flowing in more and more creative/sophisticated vibrational patterns that at some point are being manifested as part of material Universe - that includes sub-sub-Logoi as We/RA are.

(07-17-2014, 11:47 AM)third-density-being Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-16-2014, 08:15 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe knowing the polarity that was harvested from the previous octave can help with envisioning the polarity within the next octave.

Ra 84.22 Wrote:...The harvest from the previous creation was that which included the male and female mind/body/spirit. It was the intention of the original Logoi that entities mate with one another in any fashion which caused a greater polarization. It was determined, after observation of the process of many Logoi, that polarization increased many fold if the mating were not indiscriminate. Consequent Logoi thusly preserved a bias towards the mated relationship which is more characteristic of more disciplined personalities and of what you may call higher densities. The free will of each entity, however, was always paramount and a bias only could be offered.

As I understand it, this description does not refer to "previous" Octave but to "earlier", non-veiled Creation. I deduced it from the question to that answer...

Ah yes, I see it now.

Thanks !

The previous Octave's polarity was harvested thus:

Quote:4 ↥ Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

Yeah, I'm very familiar with that quote. Thanks for posting.

(07-17-2014, 10:57 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]The previous Octave's polarity was harvested thus:

Quote:4 ↥ Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

Could You please write from which session this quote is? I've searched for it in session 84 and 4 but I did not found it.

Thank You.

(07-18-2014, 03:37 PM)third-density-being Wrote: [ -> ]

(07-17-2014, 10:57 PM)Tanner Wrote: [ -> ]The previous Octave's polarity was harvested thus:

Quote:4 ↥ Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?

Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

Could You please write from which session this quote is? I've searched for it in session 84 and 4 but I did not found it.

Thank You.

http://www.lawofone.info/results.php?s=78#14

Quote:78.14 ↥ Questioner: But, in doing this, there was at the center of the galaxy, the lack of knowledge or the lack of concept of possibility of extending the first distortion, so as to allow for what we have experienced as polarity. Was there any concept of polarity carried through from the previous octave in the sense of service-to-others or service-to-self polarity?
Ra: I am Ra. There was polarity in the sense of the mover and the moved. There was no polarity in the sense of service to self and service to others.

(07-18-2014, 03:45 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]

Quote:78.14

Thank You Gemini Wolf.
I've read this session and I am still confused. RA sometimes used same term to describe two or more different things. For example term "Galaxy" were used sometimes when Ra spoke of a Star system.
[In fact, for Ra label "Galaxy" is proper for what we call a Star system]

In case of word "Octave", RA labeled with this term divisions of different scales (seven densities / seven sub-densities [within one/each density]). I'm about to do detailed analysis of Ra Materials from couple of angles, as I will start read it all over again pretty soon. I'm sure after that I will be able to clarify this matter.
Regarding polarization "mover and moved", I think Ra also spoke of it in case of first density of our Octave. I'm wondering if He/They was/were refering to "seven sub-density octave = first density" or actually to "lower"/"earlier" (or "later" if You look from point of view of "propagation" of the Creation) Octave.