Bring4th

Please explain as if I were an 8 year old.

Thanks for your help.

BTW, I have already done of search of LOO material and did not find an answer sufficiently simple for me to understand.

Love. Words, thoughts and deeds in Service to Other.

Wisdom. Based upon study and contemplation of the outcomes of those same words, thoughts and deeds. And then next time doing something different. Or nothing at all. Because sometimes what is right and loving in the moment has unintended consequences.

(08-02-2014, 09:41 AM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]Please explain as if I were an 8 year old.

Thanks for your help.

The first line above seems to be an expression of wisdom as it suggests a humble attitude.

The second seems to be an expression of love as it suggests gratitude.

One of GLB's memorable Ra quotes as shared in another thread goes. "thus self reveals self, to self."

To focus all your non judgmental attention on someone or something is to love. To take a rest when your tired from doing so is wisdom.

No offense but I sure hope you guys don't talk to your 8 year old like that lol.

Love starts in your heart. Knowledge/wisdom of this love is then put in your mind/brain. Your mind/brain is kinda like a big closet where you arrange everything. Kinda like how you arrange your shoes, shirts, and pants. When you talk to a certain person, you go through your mind like your closet trying to find the special kind of love from your heart that fits this person. Love can mean a lot of things just like you have a lot of different clothes and shoes. It's using this knowledge/wisdom that you have learned to know when and how to use this love

Love is Logos, it is focus of awareness upon a thought, of which there is only one. The thought of Unity is Love in activity, love of love, and this is Wisdom. Wisdom loves love and love is wise to wisdom.

What popped into my head:

God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
The courage to change the things I can,
And the wisdom to know the difference.

(08-02-2014, 09:41 AM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]Please explain as if I were an 8 year old.

Thanks for your help.

Hi kid! what's your name?

I'm Chris.

do you like to help your friends sometimes?

yeah, sure.

ever helped your friends move house?

yeah, I did once, Last year. There were heavy boxes and stuff, and I couldn't carry them because they were too heavy. But my dad helped me put a box on a skateboard, and then I could push the box to where it needed to go. I couldn't carry the box but I could still help out.

Wow! that sounds neat!

but dad also said that there were some things that couldn't be moved that way, and that I shouldn't try.

- -

love = a desire to help, assiat someone, for it's own sake (no gain attached)
wisdom = knowing how to help (and when), and being able to read the situation appropriately. There is a certain amount of 'smarts' to wisdom, but it is more than intelligence or knowledge. Wisdom involves the intangible quality of 'skill'.

even though we are talking about the 5th energy centre here, it has some parallels/overlap with 5th density, and this is how Ra describes the requirements of a 4d entity to move into 5d (the minimal requirements for being able to do 'wisdom' work in the next density).

To achieve this graduation the entity must be able to understand the actions, the movements, and the dance. There is no percentage describable which measures this understanding. It is a measure of efficiency of perception. It may be measured by light.

Skillful practice is a common expression in Buddhism; and I believe it is tied to the wisdom practicing of loving intent. Of course, before you can engage in skillful practice, you actually have to 'believe' in the validity and purpose of loving intent, which is a separate activity in itself ('Metta Practice').

but yeah, these two elements go hand-in-hand.

are you looking for the difference according to Ra or are you after personal opinions?

(08-02-2014, 09:41 AM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]Please explain as if I were an 8 year old.

Thanks for your help.

By the way, I have already done of search of LOO material and did not find an answer sufficiently simple for me to understand.

I think that Love is fundamental relationship between All that there is - that, which connects All.

Wisdom on the other hand is a foundation for/of every activity/action - it defines the quality of One action towards Other-Selves. That refers equally to Service to Others as well as Service to Self. It is Love that defines the nature of those actions.

I wonder if Creator still has free thought, or if he thinks anything it will be created too. Must it sit there thoughless, and just experiencing?

(08-03-2014, 01:37 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder if Creator still has free thought, or if he thinks anything it will be created too. Must it sit there thoughless, and just experiencing?

In an unthinkable perspective, I would say/write, that We All are Creators Thoughts

If we are just a thought of Creator, I wonder what it's like to actually BE Creator, and experience that firsthand. Have your awareness as that of Creator. Rather than just being a dancing thought.

(08-02-2014, 09:41 AM)caycegal Wrote: [ -> ]Please explain as if I were an 8 year old.

Thanks for your help.

By the way, I have already done of search of LOO material and did not find an answer sufficiently simple for me to understand.

In the most simple and most basic terms, wisdom is understanding, and love is acceptance.

When you combine them, you get appreciation, because to truly accept and appreciate a thing, you must properly understand it, so wisdom empowers love in that fashion.

Love empowers wisdom in its own way as well in the fact that love, as the fundamental attractive and connective force (spiritual gravity), broadens ones awareness of that which is being attracted and joined with, so that understanding of that thing is magnified in conscious perception.

Love and wisdom are two sides of the same coin.

(08-03-2014, 03:13 PM)Gemini Wolf Wrote: [ -> ]If we are just a thought of Creator, I wonder what it's like to actually BE Creator, and experience that firsthand. Have your awareness as that of Creator. Rather than just being a dancing thought.

It's not "just a dancing thought". This is Our perspective of perceiving / understanding what "thought" is. Not to mention, "We" here and now are "only" a part of much wider/bigger/higher (We and Our labels, lol) Consciousness - Our "Whole Self".

What I've wrote in my previous post is of course only a fruit of my imagination, while trying to grasp ungraspable.

I think it is safe to assume, that with veil in place, We have no idea "what" Creator is and every and each of Our assumptions is simply wrong / too simple to be in any degree correct.

Best We can do is to Know the Self. This is the only way to start Learning "what" Creator is on Our, quite undeveloped level of (incomplete) Consciousness.

This is more like a 10 year old explanation.

When you love someone, you want to help them. You don't want to help them for any reason than because they need help. It feels good to help, but if you do it because it feels good, it's not love.

Sometimes you try to help people but it doesn't help. You meant the very best to happen, but it just got messy and complicated. That's because people who need help need a certain kind of help. Not just any kind of help will do. Eventually, after you make lots of mistakes by trying to help people in ways that don't help, you learn what to do and what not to do in many different situations. That's wisdom.

Wisdom can only come from experience because that's how you learn what kind of help people need. You don't have to think about wisdom; it just comes naturally from the lessons you learned about trying to help other people. Love feels like a pull to help in any way possible and wisdom feels like a wall that prevents you from helping in ways you know won't help.

(08-03-2014, 04:10 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: [ -> ]When you love someone, you want to help them. You don't want to help them for any reason than because they need help. It feels good to help, but if you do it because it feels good, it's not love.

So I should help only because it's the "right" thing to do and not because it has anything to do with me having a personal interest and passion for the person's well-being that makes me feel good?

Because, I assure everyone here, the only reason I interact with this forum is because it feels good and I find that to be directly love. The only reason I interact with anyone and give anyone help is because it benefits me, selfishly, as their pleasure is my pleasure.

Else, one can argue I am Ayn Rand reincarnate.

(08-03-2014, 04:14 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]

(08-03-2014, 04:10 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: [ -> ]When you love someone, you want to help them. You don't want to help them for any reason than because they need help. It feels good to help, but if you do it because it feels good, it's not love.

So I should help only because it's the "right" thing to do and not because it has anything to do with me having a personal interest and passion for the person's well-being that makes me feel good?

Because, I assure everyone here, the only reason I interact with this forum is because it feels good and I find that to be directly love. The only reason I interact with anyone and give anyone help is because it benefits me, selfishly, as their pleasure is my pleasure.

Else, one can argue I am Ayn Rand reincarnate.

And that is exactly the reason why you have no real clue as to what being an STO oriented person is really about. Nevermind the fact that you just confirmed everyone's supposition that you are self centered and immature, if you weren't a child yourself, you'd understand what it is to give without expecting anything in return.

But I don't expect anything. I just get selfish pleasure from other people's pleasure.

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Also, I am self-centered. There is only one self. All is one being, eh? The Law of One? All is the creator?

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Quote:A “selfless,” “disinterested” love is a contradiction in terms: it means that one is indifferent to that which one values. Concern for the welfare of those one loves is a rational part of one’s selfish interests.

If a man who is passionately in love with his wife spends a fortune to cure her of a dangerous illness, it would be absurd to claim that he does it as a “sacrifice” for her sake, not his own, and that it makes no difference to him, personally and selfishly, whether she lives or dies.

- Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness

Isn't that a potentiation of what is not rather than an acceptance of what is not by insisting on everything must be self and that the One Infinite Creator does not possess other-self?

What is (Reality): Being conscious of the self and other completely.

What is not (Illusion): Being conscious of the other and not the self completely.

What is not (Illusion): Being conscious of the self and not the other completely.

The concept of other-self to me is just a bunch of meat blocking consciousness from linking with itself or rather minds inherently melding disincarnately. I recognize this meat, human flesh as existent. I am conscious of it. But I do realize it is just a block of 0s (unawareness) preventing me from accessing the 1s (awareness) of others that are just like my 1s.

(08-03-2014, 12:23 PM)isis Wrote: [ -> ]are you looking for the difference according to Ra or are you after personal opinions?

I am interested in "according to Ra," but since I sometimes don't understand Ra's words, I guess also personal opinions, or at least personal opinions of how to interpret Ra.

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(08-03-2014, 04:42 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]But I don't expect anything. I just get selfish pleasure from other people's pleasure.

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Also, I am self-centered. There is only one self. All is one being, eh? The Law of One? All is the creator?

---

Quote:A “selfless,” “disinterested” love is a contradiction in terms: it means that one is indifferent to that which one values. Concern for the welfare of those one loves is a rational part of one’s selfish interests.

If a man who is passionately in love with his wife spends a fortune to cure her of a dangerous illness, it would be absurd to claim that he does it as a “sacrifice” for her sake, not his own, and that it makes no difference to him, personally and selfishly, whether she lives or dies.

- Ayn Rand, The Virtue of Selfishness

Adonai, I often have the thought that if I believe in Karma (which I do) then it becomes impossible to do something for another person because I am always aware that when I do something loving or nice for another person I am also helping myself. At the same time, I have noticed that I can be self absorbed, lost in my own thoughts, or I can focus on another person and open myself to receiving and appreciating that person's emanations/vibrations/words, etc. When I stay lost or locked up in my own thought box, I am stuck. When I can open up to the people and events around me and receive them into my "heart" I believe and feel that this is a good place to be in. So the whole thing is some kind of paradox for me.

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If wisdom is only the acquired experience of this individual, I can only hope that it is not lost at some point.

Adonai One Wrote:So I should help only because it's the "right" thing to do and not because it has anything to do with me having a personal interest and passion for the person's well-being that makes me feel good?

You have named two options as if there is no third.

1. Help because it's my duty
2. Help because it makes me feel good.

The third option is what I am trying to pinpoint:

3. Help because I care, not about what I am supposed to do, not about what makes me feel good, but about what is good for you.

(08-03-2014, 04:10 PM)JustLikeYou Wrote: [ -> ]...

When you love someone, you want to help them. You don't want to help them for any reason than because they need help. It feels good to help, but if you do it because it feels good, it's not love.

...

I like your answer, but above statement does seem to need some clarification. Maybe it's clearer to say "...if you do it only because it feels good, ..." If one follows his/her heart, then they will do what feel good to them, I don't think it's wrong. STO's heart to lead them to the path of their choice, so would STS. But not everybody are consciously aware of their higher choice/intentions. Your statement as it stands could be mistakenly viewed as implying that if what someone does makes them feel good, then that someone is not doing it out of love.

With the added "only", I also wouldn't follow it by "..., it's not love". If one could not find any other reason than it feels good, maybe s/he need to meditate/contemplate on that, and find the motivation that serve his/her choice of polarity. The actions may be the same, but intentions do matter. I would say something like this:
"if you do it only because it feels good, then you need to give a bit more thoughtful considerations to the motivation of your action."

I only live because it feels good. I only do things because it feels good. What is wrong with me?

I see what you're getting at, Learner. I agree with the first paragraph, but not the second. Adonai One posted a quotation from Ayn Rand that captures fairly well the attitude or mental configuration which defines genuine altruism out of existence. The basic claim is this: if it benefits you, then the reason you did it is the benefit. This supposed argument for the non-existence of altruism begs the question. Underlying the argument is the assumption that anytime something benefits you, you are motivated primarily by the benefit.

It is this very attitude that has caused people to think that doing what is "right" (though i don't care for this term) must be painful. Again, we're working with the same tired dichotomy: either you do it because it's your duty or because it benefits you.

Adonai One, there is nothing wrong with you. If you have never had the experience of wanting the good of the other without any thought for the self, then I'm sure it will come. Conversely, be careful not to place mental processes in your path that aren't really there. People who buy into Rand's argument convince themselves that the dichotomy is true. So when they experience genuine altruism, they fixate on the benefits they get from it without recognizing that in that moment the benefit for the self was not considered.

When grandma makes cookies for you, is it less generous and thoughtful if she eats one, too? If she made them for you, then she probably wouldn't have made them if you hadn't showed up. The pleasure of eating a cookie is nice, but it was the brightening of your day that she wanted.

The important distinction is this: you do what you do because you want to Do it, not because it gives you pleasure. It may be that you want to do it because it gives you pleasure, but if so then it was not love. Anyone who has slept with a "selfish" lover understands how this works.

Love makes you do stupid stuff. Wisdom makes do stupid stuff you think makes sense.

Love: coming to Earth as ET thinking humans would share the technology we were trying to share.

Wisdom: Letting them handle their own s***.

Many types of love, e.g. erotic, romantic and unconditional. Many languages, unlike English, have separate words for them. Love is one of the two fundamental components of the Universe, the other being Light.

I see wisdom as accrued experience. Thus, the fifth level of consciousness is Compassion Tempered with Wisdom, you cute little caycegal.

Edited to add the eight-year-old treatment.

Love = You believe that there is loss, thus you polarize, negative or positive. The choice.

Wisdom = You know that nothing is lost and thus provide environments for otherselves in order for them to experience love.