Aliens: Hi, we see that you guys are completely unable to care for yourselves so we have now come to spread the good news. You do not need to suffer here. Your life is eternal and here is scientific doctrine to prove it. This plane of existence is voluntary and so is its suffering. Does this bring you peace from your troubles?
Humanity: WE NEED TO STOP REPRODUCING
100 years later...
*slideshow of abandoned cities and villages*
*still of one human monk meditating in a field*
Fin.
This is why aliens are not coming and integrating with us anytime soon.
I think it'd be more like PARTY!
Party? With what? Scraps of a decaying society where you can't even afford basic necessities without working 40 hours a week? Why work when I can live in luxury for free when I am dead? Why would I birth a child when he can inherently live in heaven?
Why should I or a potential child live in a hellhole where I have to work for a living when the disincarnate planes grant this inherently? It says right here in these scientific papers given by the aliens that we do not need to suffer at all to live. Why not take the easy route?
Why would everyone think like you?
You are obsessed with satisfaction, so your own choices are applicable to yourself that way. Others do not view things at all in the same way.
That's not how I think. That's how everyone with horrendous amounts of debt and car payments will think at the idea of partying when they are sacrificing so much of their labor, time and money towards a society that doesn't need to suffer to exist.
When people are committing self-sacrifice they can only think about it ending in some way.
I am quite happy here, Tanner. I can guarantee others will not be with this information proven.
So, it's die or work? You are so binary.
Sure, some others would not be happy, but others would be. I don't understand the dominance of negativity in your thought.
You see a golden key at the top of the hill that will answer all that you have been working for, at least in the case of the average worker. The average worker once believed they had to earn that key. Now they know the key is inherently reached and the work is unnecessary.
Here's how I see most of society reacting to the idea of heaven being inherently granted at death: f*** all my debts and f*** living, I am going to wait things out on my sofa watching reruns of Seinfield. I am going to stop having kids too.
There would be no incentive to live anymore, Tanner, for most people who believe they are committed to some grand cause of peace. When people realize peace is inherent, they will just throw in the towel, give up on working towards a comfortable life and just sit in apathy.
Also, I call BS on the idea that most workers enjoy their jobs. Statistics show otherwise on almost every scale.
I absolutely disagree and you are being very presumptuous about 7 billion people. I, personally, know many, many people who would not fall in to that. I think your generalized assessment is skewed.
Most of the world does not live in first-world America/Canada, Tanner. I am sure the people in the slums and cramped conditions of the non-first world (the majority) will be happy to continue suffering with this knowledge.
I am sure the sweatshop workers that produce all the goods we use will be happy knowing heaven, reward, peace, victory is inherent while still sacrificing themselves towards our leisure.
Once again, entirely presumptuous and projection based on an assumption of the thoughts of others. It doesn't matter, to me, what you say, when you generalize "People are like this" or "People are like that", it is erroneous as "people" cannot be lumped in to any single generalization and the suggestion is more misleading than anything else.
(08-05-2014, 04:47 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]Most of the world does not live in first-world America/Canada, Tanner. I am sure the people in the slums and cramped conditions of the non-first world (the majority) will be happy to continue suffering with this knowledge.
I am sure the sweatshop workers that produce all the goods we use will be happy knowing heaven, reward, peace, victory is inherent while still sacrificing themselves towards our leisure.
I think you miss my point. I fail to understand why, with this knowledge and assistance from "aliens" humans would continue in the same patterns of social structure they currently have? This is the flaw I see in your theory as I do not believe it would be just "OH, the aliens are here and all is perfect, well back to what we were doing!"
My theory is that the aliens would, at maximum, grant provable models of the entire universe and leave human's alone. Not enslave us in alien-governed care for food, health and basic necessities. They would give us the tools we need to fix ourselves.
Aliens are not the 2008 vision of Obama in my view, a bringer of a new world. They are a bringer of truth and responsibility and that's why they have left us alone. The truth is: We need to understand that there is nothing to attain or above ourselves. With the knowledge that we don't have to do anything, humanity will drop all responsibility towards what it wants or doesn't want and sit in decay because humanity has lost all sense of itself. Humanity mopes around like automatons only doing what they are told, while they are indoctrinated into doing what they think is "absolutely right" because their parents taught them what is "right" instead of finding what they actually want.
Once again, you are really not talking about humanity but some stereotype of a person you have in your mind.
Also, why assume few would want to make use of the tools?
I assume people would see only this in the tools: Peace is inherent. There is nothing to be done to sustain the survival of my soul. My soul's survival is guaranteed in vitality and happiness. Why worry? Oh wait, in order for me to function in society I have to do X. Why? I am going to go live in the woods until this is all over.
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them. - Albert Einstein
I still completely disagree as I think society as a whole would take on new modes of operation. I also disagree that all people are as shallow as you seem to suggest.
The primary crux of your assessment seems based on the assumption that humans, in general, prefer laziness. I do not believe this is at all true.
Television, video games are the best-selling tools of entertainment. Come on.
Drugs are a mainstay for a good portion of the population as well.
Society does not desire anything bad enough here right now to desire to truly sustain it especially in the face of alternatives.
That doesn't prove anything in regards to laziness? You are essentially projecting yourself on to others, comparing them to yourself, and then judging or assessing them based on that comparison. This is normal, but in this case it seems you believe yourself to be exceptional.
It proves that people have nothing truly exceptional to work towards if they prefer video games and television over working towards society and this planet.
I think you underestimate the value of 'fun'.
Also, everybody watch out, big head comin' through the door. Once again, you have your ideals.
I define fun as actually engaging with what exists rather than distraction made to avoid what exists, because what exists is deemed unsatisfactory. Humanity does not engage in this type of fun. It engages in distractions.
You do realize that all of this is just a projection on to others over the fact that you, personally, hate the idea of labour, working, employment, etc?
I know this because I did the exact same thing.
(08-05-2014, 05:26 PM)Adonai One Wrote: [ -> ]I define fun as actually engaging with what exists rather than distraction made to avoid what exists, because what exists is deemed unsatisfactory. Humanity does not engage in this type of fun. It engages in distractions.
Pompous.
I would bet a million dollars that the majority of the human populace would not work their jobs given an alternative to do something they actually want.
I absolutely agree, but I also believe that a huge portion of those jobs are either unnecessary or only existing for money, or that the people who don't like their current jobs or projects are actually also interested in things which are also still useful (I assure you, 40 year old WoW addicts are a minority in the face of the global population), and in fact if there was such freedom I believe humans would not actually stop doing things, but they would drop the desire and necessity for re-numeration and instead set about building projects just for the sake of doing those projects because the truth is that true human diversity shows that there are people which are made for almost everything. Money would become defined by communion.
Look at the interests and focuses people have. Every human subject ever thought of and conceived of as knowledge has been a human interest. That is a HUGE spectrum of focus, and so I actually believe the human race is perfectly equipped through its people to have a complete and coherent structure of activity while still maintaining individual freedom and creativity. The problem is that we have a bad sense of arrangement and we put people where they do not have interest or affinity. The problem is not that people want to do nothing or to be lazy, it's that the things people ACTUALLY want to do seem so far out of reach that there is an innate depression of sorts which leads to apathy or giving up.
It's hard to be human, I will say that.
The only question is can humanity use its will effectively towards what it wants while remaining happy. I believe this question is not easily answered.
Aha I agree, humans are complex creatures and they are certainly not always predictable.
Aren't they among our world governments? Some negative ET's giving military technology to our military? Or is that all conspiracy?
They come among our world governments and see that they are totally incompetent and do not have enough hatred to enslave the entire planet under one rule.
The only conspiracy is the idea the governments of the world can effectively conquer humanity into absolute enslavement.
Are we not slaves to our jobs?
You're a true slave to your job when you're unable to file a resignation and attempt to live off the land and/or other self-made skill, when certain types of employment are your only avenue. We're fortunately not under such a rule.