Bring4th

I follow and enjoy a page called "I Fucking Love Science". Their worldview tends to be materialistic in terms of seeing only the material realm as real. (As far as I know.)

But they feel genuine and honest with no hidden agenda but only desire to share a love of all things science.

Its author put together this article about the anti-vaccination movement. Replete with many helpful links for anyone interested in researching this question for themselves:

http://www.iflscience.com/health-and-med...being-lied

That's just another DISinfo site.

They may have good intentions, but all the sites they're citing are DISinfo sites, and studies done by the drug industry (the industry that profits by vaccines, cancer, diabetes, etc.).

As a parent, I will say that the decision of whether to vaccinate or not was the most difficult decision I ever had to make. After months of agonizing research, I was waaaay more scared of the vaccines than of the illnesses!

I saw blatant evidence of fraud. To show just 1 example:

The graph that's commonly used to show a decline in polio after the vaccine was introduced was cut off at a certain point. When viewing the whole graph, I saw that polio had already declined before the vaccine was introduced. A great example of figures don't lie but liars figure.

That's just 1 example. There are many, many more.

There is a TON of evidence, plus thousands of parents who KNOW the vaccine damaged their child. A child is talking and developing normally, then suddenly within a few hours of being vaccinated, has autism symptoms and cannot talk? And they are expected to believe that studies show no connection?

Vaccination: The Hidden Truth (for starters)

Next, I invite you to listen to REAL parents tell their stories:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3IMSUApeW4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSjVZx4jnuY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rfVOtvvvIV0

Listen to the PARENTS:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YkUoNAzG48

See also: CDC chief admits connection between autism & vaccines...CDC estimates 1 in 50 kids has this predisposition - that's a 2% risk for a life-long neurological impairment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh-nkD5LS...re=related


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Did you know ...

... infectious diseases were over 90% resolved by the time vaccines came onto the market?
...there are now 33 vaccines that are mandated by the time your child is 6 years old? and 40 by age 16?
...that before 1991 there was no system in place for reporting adverse vaccine reactions whatsoever?
...that only one country in Europe still has mandated DPT shots, whereas the US still requires 4 separate doses?
... 43% of Gulf War veterans experienced side effects to vaccines?
... 80,000 Gulf War vets have permanent medical conditions as a result of vaccinations?
... that vaccination is not immunization?
... that Hepatitis B vaccine was outlawed in France after 15,000 citizens filed a class action suit against the government?
...that vaccines do not have to be proven safe and effective in order to be added to the list of mandated shots for American children?
...the the mercury in most vaccines is dozens of times in excess of EPA safe levels?
... that there are many new vaccines in the pipeline trying to get FDA approval so they can be tacked onto the mandated schedule?
... that vaccination is a multi-billion dollar industry in the US?
... that the US Congress has recently discovered rampant conflict of interest between the FDA and the vaccine manufacturers?
... that in the past 20 years, autism has gone from being almost completely unknown to an epidemic that now affects as many as one in every 150 American children?
... that the drug companies are not required to prove that vaccines will not cause cancer, and that no testing for carcinogenicity is even done before a vaccine is approved?
... that all states but two have very simple exemption forms by which a parent can choose to forego all vaccines for the child?


[broken link edited]

http://www.vaccination.inoz.com/about.html

Below is a list of ingredients in vaccines. (It is not exhaustive - there are other chemicals not in the list.)

If you are tempted to assume that these poisons would only be in harmless quantities in vaccines, note:

1) There is no safe level for some of these poisons, such as formaldehyde and mercury, even if one of them was consumed or injected on its own.

2) Even if the quantity of any given ingredient was within a safe level, remember that a large number of these are being taken in all at once, which can lead to the accumulative toxicity being much higher.

3) Poisons such as formaldehyde and mercury are well known to have a sensitising effect on the body, i.e. they cause increased susceptibility to any foreign substance that it might encounter at the same time or in the future.

4) Even the manufacturers admit to a large list of adverse effects of vaccines, including even death.

The resultant damage, including brain damage, from these toxins can vary from mild enough not to be apparent, through to severe, in some cases death. You cannot inject a living being with these poisons and expect there to be no adverse effect at all. What varies, and varies greatly, is merely the degree of damage. The reason for the large variation in this degree of damage include:

*

great genetic variations in recipients, affecting susceptibility in general and susceptibility to specific vaccines
*

variations within one recipient from one time to another (due to biorhythms, other work the immune system is doing already fighting other infections, how many vaccines have already been given, etc), and
*

variations between vaccine batches - there is an acknowledged weakness in the area of controlling the levels of toxins in vaccines, resulting in some batches being labelled "hot lots". (Sadly even this identification does not necessarily result in recalls, but rather in distributing the "hot lot" as broadly as possible, as revealed in a leaked letter from a pharmaceutical company.)

For chemical profiles and definitions, visit http://www.scorecard.org/.

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Silent Epidemic: The Untold Story of Vaccines Movie

Respectfully, Gary, the site you posted is full of disinfo.

from the site you posted Wrote:In only one respect is my message the same as the anti-vaccine activists: Educate yourself. But while they mean “Read all these websites that support our position”, I suggest you should learnwhat the scientific community says.

This is an insult to all those thousands of parents who trusted their doctors and vaccinated their children, in good faith, and it was only after their child suddenly became autistic or suffered some other damage or even DIED, that they began doing their own research.

To state that those parents read only those website that 'support their position' is highly offensive and insulting!

...and illogical, which is easily proven thusly: They already were PRO-vaccine, because...duh...they got their child vaccinated!

They became anti-vaccine after their child was damaged, and they are now trying to spare others the same fate. These parents are very highly educated regarding this issue. The had to get educated, when the medical system failed them.

...and then the site offers as argument:

from your site Wrote:Read about Andrew Wakefield, and how his paper that claimed a link between the MMR vaccine and autism has been withdrawn, and his medical license has been revoked.

It is common practice for the Medical Mafia to revoke the licenses of any doctor who challenges their corrupt industry. Many papers were 'withdrawn' under pressure. So this means nothing.

The 'science community' the IFLS cites is the multi-billion-$$ drug industry.

Monica you are making my blood boil.

Quote:That's just another DISinfo site.
They may have good intentions, but all the sites they're citing are DISinfo sites, and studies done by the drug industry (the industry that profits by vaccines, cancer, diabetes, etc.).

Why does the drug industry profit? Is it because they make us all sick and reap the rewards or some other paranoid narrative? Or is it because millions go towards research and production of medicine that keeps people alive, a target market with a healthy demand rate? People dedicate their lives to helping others and elevating human understanding just to be boxed away by ignorant folk as "big pharma keeping us down", it's truly sickening. You do realize we basically wiped polio off the planet as a result of investigation, study and vaccines,? It wasn't just going to go away, that idea is harmful.

Also, the sites they cite to back up their claims are actual scientific and medical sites, presenting scientific research, not just anecdotes provided on youtube.

Quote:This is an insult to all those thousands of parents who trusted their doctors and vaccinated their children, in good faith, and it was only after their child suddenly became autistic or suffered some other damage or even DIED, that they began doing their own research.

Essential highschool knowledge: correlation doesn't imply causation

I can't even deal with this, I am so angry, it's people like you that in your self righteousness pose a very real threat to the safety of children.

Excellent rebuttal to the original article:

http://www.livingwhole.org/dear-parents-...g-lied-to/

I think it's silly to say anti-vaxxers pose a threat to children when they are actually trying to protect their children, but this will always be a heated debate. Adults who were vaccinated have the "I turned out fine" mentality (sort of similar to the spanking argument...)

Either way, IFLS stopped passing the sniff test for me a while ago, when they posted some extremely anti-extraterrestrial life opinions. I mean, for many people, it's just logical that we are not alone in the universe, so to take a mocking tone towards any belief in anything outside of planet earth was a little disconcerting. I'm not saying that ETs are essential to keeping my whole world view afloat, but I definitely don't consider IFLS to be progressive or forward thinking by any means.

Quote:I think it's silly to say anti-vaxxers pose a threat to children when they are actually trying to protect their children

Is it silly to say a parent poses a threat to their child when they do, regardless of their good intentions? Get a grip.

Quote:Adults who were vaccinated have the "I turned out fine" mentality

Yes but reasonable people usually look beyond anecdotal evidence to see what is supported by facts and study. And if you think that the data suggests what Monica says to be true than I invite you to go to Africa without being immunized. Oh it's only the evil doctors and big pharma trying to suppress ebola.

Quote:I mean, for many people, it's just logical that we are not alone in the universe, so to take a mocking tone towards any belief in anything outside of planet earth was a little disconcerting. I'm not saying that ETs are essential to keeping my whole world view afloat, but I definitely don't consider IFLS to be progressive or forward thinking by any means.

They are extremely "progressive", but the thing is it's pop science, it has a target to appeal to, they cite the work of real scientists but it is released in digestible, diluted doses for uneducated people to understand. The article is simplistic as it is aimed at simple people, it doesn't cover everything and is not designed to, but it does a good job of what it was intended for.
Iirc they were more against the stance of believing in alien contact rather than aliens in general, which is completely understandable but I don't follow them that much

If you don't want to vaccinate your child talk about with your doctor don't just google s***

(09-24-2014, 11:58 PM)Jade Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's silly to say anti-vaxxers pose a threat to children when they are actually trying to protect their children, but this will always be a heated debate.

Yes, and equally silly to say they aren't educated, when they research the issue much more than those who just blindly follow doctor's orders.

(09-24-2014, 11:58 PM)Jade Wrote: [ -> ]Adults who were vaccinated have the "I turned out fine" mentality (sort of similar to the spanking argument...)

Exactly! Bottom line is: It's easy to cite studies until it happens to one's own child. I find it offensive that they disregard the parents' own observations. Anyone who has a child knows that a healthy, normal child who is already talking in sentences doesn't just become autistic instantly, unable to talk, total change in behavior, for no reason! That this has happened to many thousands of children, within a couple of hours of getting vaccinated, is significant. To disregard the obvious is just absurd.

Not to mention, that the CDC's own graphs prove that the data has been doctored.

All this is covered in the videos I posted above.

(09-24-2014, 11:58 PM)Jade Wrote: [ -> ]Either way, IFLS stopped passing the sniff test for me a while ago, when they posted some extremely anti-extraterrestrial life opinions. I mean, for many people, it's just logical that we are not alone in the universe, so to take a mocking tone towards any belief in anything outside of planet earth was a little disconcerting. I'm not saying that ETs are essential to keeping my whole world view afloat, but I definitely don't consider IFLS to be progressive or forward thinking by any means.

Agreed!

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Excerpt from the excellent rebuttal:

Quote:They give credit to vaccines for eradicating diseases, but they didn’t. 
Polio (licensed in 1955), hepatitis A (1995) and B (1991), mumps (1967), measles (1963), and pertussis (1949), were all on the decline before the vaccines were introduced. Small pox and pertussis ultimately saw an increase in prevalence after the vaccine and rubella and tetanus was practically nonexistent prior to the vaccine. Mortality in all areas with all diseases were significantly decreased before the vaccine came on the scene. Instead of looking at deceptive CDC graphs that give credit where credit’s not due, try plugging in the year of licensure on both prevalence and mortality charts and discover where the decline occurred for yourself. (For prevalence of polio refer to “Incidence of poliomyelitis in the USA from CDC, 1972 and for measles prevalence use healthsentinel.com).

I did exactly that, but without the internet. We didn't have an internet when I was pregnant 26 years ago. But I saw this for myself, the hard way. It's true. Discovery of the doctored graphs was one of the main factors in my decision.

Quote:yes, and equally silly to say they aren't educated, when they research the issue much more than those who just blindly follow doctor's orders.

I'm sorry, I didn't know that using google is what qualified as an education.

Quote:Anyone who has a child knows that a healthy, normal child who is already talking in sentences doesn't just become autistic instantly, unable to talk, total change in behavior, for no reason! That this has happened to many thousands of children, within a couple of hours of getting vaccinated, is significant. To disregard the obvious is just absurd.

post hoc ergo, propter hoc. oh what's that you can't read latin, just google it that's what you do for your medical advice after all

Look, vaccines aren't supposed to completely destroy a virus or disease but given what's known the outbreaks after the vaccines were released would have been more likely to be more severe had the vaccines not existed, it's about damage control, people expect magic, 100% efficiency and are keen to disregard things that don't work 100% "well this one guy I heard about it didn't work for so they must all not work" this kind of thinking is ridiculous and dangerous and I'm not surprised to find it in a place like this.

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Luckily of course many non immunized children don't get these diseases, not because the vaccines didn't work but because they did and there was no spread of infection because other parents had been diligent.

If you wanted to shut down vaccination programs that mandatory for entering certain parts of the world you would rightly be regarded as guilty of crimes against humanity.

And on the conspiracy theory side of things, what reason could there possibly be for people conspiring to make other people autistic? Big pharma wants to make that$$? Yes that's why they hold back cures for cancer, because it's not like that discovery would earn more than could be possibly be conceived if it were actually real, no it's all being held back so they can make money off donations...

Damn that capitalism.

Three things of interest

1. CDC whistleblowers are now admitting there is a link between mmr vax and autism

2. Almost all vaccines have a link to autoimmune diseases

3. My girlfriend, who rescues horses for a living, says that you cannot sell a horse who has had vaccinations to a meat factory. No indication as to why.

Now given these 3 factors, the question is - do I think I can handle a vaccine preventable illness if one were to hit me? Yup, without a doubt. Would my children? Yup, without a doubt. Other people and other people's children? Maybe, maybe not. It may sound selfish, but I don't think the risk of autoimmune disease is worth the potential benefit of other peoples convenience.

If a man runs up to you and says "if you push this button you have a 1 in a thousand chance of getting a lifelong autoimmune disease, but also a one in a thousand chance of saving someone's life". Would You push it? Not me, hell no.

(09-25-2014, 08:36 AM)Guardian Wrote: [ -> ]Three things of interest

1. CDC whistleblowers are now admitting there is a link between mmr vax and autism

2. Almost all vaccines have a link to autoimmune diseases

3. My girlfriend, who rescues horses for a living, says that you cannot sell a horse who has had vaccinations to a meat factory. No indication as to why.

Now given these 3 factors, the question is - do I think I can handle a vaccine preventable illness if one were to hit me? Yup, without a doubt. Would my children? Yup, without a doubt. Other people and other people's children? Maybe, maybe not. It may sound selfish, but I don't think the risk of autoimmune disease is worth the potential benefit of other peoples convenience.

If a man runs up to you and says "if you push this button you have a 1 in a thousand chance of getting a lifelong autoimmune disease, but also a one in a thousand chance of saving someone's life". Would You push it? Not me, hell no.

Good points! That is exactly the conclusion I reached. The vaccines were way scarier than the diseases, in all cases except tetanus (and rabies for dogs and cats). Those were the only ones that showed a clear correlation to reduced disease, along with minimal risk for side effects. In all other cases, the risk for side effects was unacceptable, and effectiveness highly questionable.

(Unfortunately, one must special order a 'T' (tetanus only) vaccine. What they call 'tetanus' now is actually DT - tetanus with diptheria.)

And yes, who among us would knowingly put our own child at risk, to satisfy some ideology? That idea is absurd to anyone who has children. No sane parent sacrifices their own child. No one.

I will repeat again, the key point that seems to be getting missed:
Original CDC graphs showed decline in the diseases before the vaccines were introduced. Those graphs were doctored for propaganda pieces.

I wonder if anyone has viewed the videos I posted above? There is rich, substantial information there. CDC graphs were the most convincing to me. I saw those very same graphs 26 years ago.

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(09-25-2014, 01:55 AM)Account1 Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sorry, I didn't know that using google is what qualified as an education.

Google is just a vehicle and therefore irrelevant. A discerning individual cross-references all sources and makes an intelligent, informed decision, rather than blindly believing a single source, whether that be a book, a website, a parent, a doctor, or the drug industry.

I haven't been vaccinated once. The issue i believe is not as straight forward as it may seem. I believe that most vaccines are good to some degree but have hidden negative side effects in them which may not manifest until one is older(not always the case). If something was just obviously a negative effect on health people would start to figure something was wrong but if you make something look decent enough people are more likely to buy into it.

While it is plausible that many professionals in the allopathic medical community and industry have good intentions to help people, the industry itself is so obviously corrupted.

There is historical, paper-trail evidence, for example, of the pharmaceutical companies creating and coining a "disease" before they provided the treatment pill (which happened to be all ready to go after the "need" was established). The obvious example is the many antidepressants now being taken because people think they "need" them. Of course, there are certain cases where they are of help; I don't judge anyone taking them. However, greed is the underlying motivation here—to sell the pharmaceuticals.

The intention behind vaccinations probably started out as positive. However, today, because of the investigations revealing their problems, many of which were stated and referenced by Monica above, one has to wonder why the allopathic medical machine is not giving the subject proper inquiry. They simply seem to resist any questioning, relying on an emotional guilt device which bullies the parents into doing the "right" thing. I say touche to any parent who actually does the research themselves and makes the difficult decisions, with no medical community they can really trust to champion the truth.

My sister has 2 children. Her first child went into bad convulsions and had seizures for a number of years due to one of the common vaccinations (I don't remember which because I don't have children). I say because of it, as he went into convulsions the night he had had the vaccination, and had felt terrible immediately following the vaccination. That's when she did the research and discovered many of the problems with vaccinations that Monica has posted.

She had a second child years later, and she revisited the research because, as Monica said, it is an agonizing issue to deal with. She decided to not vaccinate her second child. That child is robust and healthy, and never had any problems other than getting into schools where vaccinations were mandatory.

With so much greed rampant and institutions in place profiting from sickness (not health) it is imperative that we think for ourselves and not fall prey to the advertising and marketing. I don't read popular media, but if I go to an eye doctor appointment or get my tires changed, I will pick up a magazine while I wait. I am always astounded by the amount of fear pedaled by the medical community. The one that stands out is breast cancer. There is so much fear-based advertising it's no surprise so many women succumb to the disease and the so-called preventative and early detection measures (while ironically, that same industry is pedaling hormone replacement therapy even though they cite it causes breast cancer).

I don't trust the government to regulate anything about health competently especially vaccines. Thus no medication goes into my system and has not for over a year.

I too followed that same facebook page until earlier this year and agree that the very very popular page is driven by a passion for sharing scientific details in a humorous way. I un followed the page (and it may have been for this very reason) when I detected a subtle propaganda heading on one of their posts, reading "Seeing a lot of this lately".

Suddenly the otherwise exuberant and humorous text was missing and I smelt politics. I have a nack for chucking the baby out with the bath water however so have probably missed many smile causing posts since.

"Where nature creates a problem, nature provides a solution". - Dr Leonard Coldwell.



My personal experience is limited to this.

I was building a garden wall and a recently retired neighbour would routinely walk by in the morning after buying his newspaper. We began chatting (I was mainly listening) and he told me about how he was a senior employee for a large pharmaceutical company in London (30+ years). He also mentioned a particular incident in which he was exposed to a serious chemical and was immediately taken to some royal hospital. He said he needed a triple heart bypass and was "looked after". He also pointed to his 2 nearly new cars in his driveway that he had purchased from the funds raised by selling the company shares given to him as a retirement gift. He finished that particular discussion by mentioning the same company was now getting into vaccinations in a big way as "there is a lot of money in it, you know".

(09-25-2014, 01:55 AM)Account1 Wrote: [ -> ]Big pharma wants to make that$$? Yes that's why they hold back cures for cancer, because it's not like that discovery would earn more than could be possibly be conceived if it were actually real, no it's all being held back so they can make money off donations...

Yes, that's it exactly, though I suspect that there is also a deeper, more insidious reason as well, knowing what we know about STS entities feeding off the fear and despair of humans.

There will never be a drug that cures cancer. So they make $$ now, off the disease. The donations are small potatoes compared to the profit from 'treatments' [sic]. Each cancer patient, on average, is worth $250,000 to the drug industry. That's a factual statistic. That's some big profit there.

"...in the time that I have become a 'quack' myself and my patients have become healthier than they ever were at the time when I was 'not a quack'." - Dr Suzanne Humphries (17+ minutes into the interview)

Holistic doctor here. After years of research I've boiled the entire debate down to two options - do you fear germs or do you fear autoimmune disease?

Personally, I believe all germs can be defeated with supportive therapy (except maybe HIV) but there are few, if any, autoimmune diseases that can be cured.

Well said, Guardian! I decided not to vaccinate my child when I realized that I was much more afraid of the vaccines than the diseases themselves.

Those who choose not to vaccinate have an obligation to the rest of humanity to isolate themselves.

You don't have the right to subject others to potentially fatal diseases because of a personal choice you've made to ignore science and not vaccinate.

Quote:Those who choose not to vaccinate have an obligation to the rest of humanity to isolate themselves. 

No. I have absolutely no obligation to do anything.
This sort of message would not be out of place in any dictatorship.

Did you think about this one or was it just a knee jerk reaction?

[line removed because of guideline infringement]

(10-07-2014, 10:30 PM)Monica Wrote: [ -> ]Well said, Guardian! I decided not to vaccinate my child when I realized that I was much more afraid of the vaccines than the diseases themselves.

So let's get this straight, you base your decision on what you fear most.
You are advocating fear based decision making.

~ Left Bring4th to avoid bullying ~

~ Left Bring4th to avoid bullying ~

What pro-vaccine people don't understand is that it's not about being against the concept of vaccination, but against the current medical paradigm of vaccination. Lots of vaccines use mercury and other crazy additives to keep them "shelf-stable" = profits for the medical industry, not the health of society being the primary concern.

Also, check out this label on the flu vaccine and tell me if you still think you should get it or if being injected is just a gut reaction:



IMO, vaccination is just another way to give the power of your health over to someone else. We are responsible for taking care of ourselves first, others second. It's also not fair to blame others who don't get vaccinated for the potential of another outbreak.

Quote:23.14 Questioner: Can you tell me of the reasons for the disease? I think I already know, but I think it might be good for the book to state this at this time.

Ra: I am Ra. This is, as we have mentioned before, not particularly informative with regard to the Law of One. However, the land you know of as Egypt at that time was highly barbarous in its living conditions, as you would call them. The river which you call Nile was allowed to flood and to recede, thus providing the fertile grounds for the breeding of diseases which may be carried by insects. Also, the preparation of foodstuffs allowed diseases to form. Also, there was difficulty in many cases with sources of water and water which was taken caused disease due to the organisms therein.

23.15 Questioner: I was really questioning more about the more basic cause of the disease rather than the mechanism of its transmission. I was going back to the root or thought which created the possibility of this disease. Could you shortly tell me if I am correct in assuming that the general reduction of thought over the long time on planet Earth with respect to an understanding of the Law of One created a condition in which this— what we call disease could develop? Is this correct?

Ra: I am Ra. This is correct and perceptive. You, as questioner, begin now to penetrate the outer teachings.

The root cause in this particular society was not so much a bellicose action although there were, shall we say, tendencies, but rather the formation of a money system and a very active trading and development of those tendencies towards greed and power; thus, the enslaving of entities by other entities and the misapprehension of the Creator within each entity.

I personally feel that if I were to be the cause of a huge outbreak (I'm vaccinated btw, whether or not my kids will be is another story), then that is the way it's supposed to be, friends! I'm not creating alone here. If we want to see an outbreak of apocalyptic proportions as a society and experience that together, then we will. It was a bit sketchy there for a while but I think the answer is no for the time, as often as you see the CDC trying to scare us with Ebola and other superbugs but these scares go no where. Also, 3D earth has plenty of "apocalyptic" scenarios to incarnate into if one so desires - head on over to Syria et al if you want to help raise the vibrations of a different type of disaster scenario.

Forgive me for being lofty, but I have more faith in the Law of One than I do in western medicine.

I had all my vaccines they gave to children of the 70's and 80's. Rarely got sick. When I got sick, it was usually for only a day. But never a serious disease. Glad I never had whooping cough. Well, glad I never had any serious ones. Though I did have Chicken Pox as a kid and boy did that itch.

More recently I got vaccinated against Tetanus.

To live in a civilized society, one must think of the impact their decisions have on the whole society, not just on their own situation.

I'm just glad most of us still believe in science and make decisions based on science, not the fear mongering that is all too prevalent.

(02-20-2015, 05:57 PM)Shawnna Wrote: [ -> ]To live in a civilized society, one must think of the impact their decisions have on the whole society, not just on their own situation.

I'm just glad most of us still believe in science and make decisions based on science, not the fear mongering that is all too prevalent.

That's a fair point but what if the scientific model is driven by the desire to conquer nature, as opposed to cooperating with it?

~ Left Bring4th to avoid bullying ~