Bring4th

I really like the vibe of this guy, so I thought I would start a thread to gather some of his wonderful inspiration. Let the gathering begin;

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"IT SEEMS THAT THERE MUST BE A RISK IN YOUR UNDERTAKING." There is nothing, no risk - because it is not an undertaking. I am not risking anything because there is nothing to risk, there is nothing to lose. All that is, always is. And that which is not, never is. So what is the risk?

If somebody comes and kills me, he kills only my body which is already dead, has always been dead - it is part of the earth. So, dust unto dust. He cannot kill me. I was before I was born, I will be after death has happened. So what has he done? Nothing serious; nothing of much importance. He may think he had done a very serious thing: that he has killed me, that he has crucified a Jesus or killed a Socrates. That is his idea. But in me, that which is matter is going to fall into matter and that which is consciousness is going to fall into consciousness, so nobody can kill me. You can shoot at me but you cannot shoot me. You can cut my head off, but your sword will not touch me. The sword is material and it cannot touch the spiritual.

There is no risk and there is no possibility of failure - because there is no possibility of success either. I cannot succeed so how can I fail? In fact, the very terminology of success, failure, benefit, loss, is absurd, irrelevant.

-Rajneesh

am I the only one that this quote reminded me of the 6th sense movie? "I see dead people"

Life is a mystery; that means it cannot be solved. And when all efforts to solve it prove futile, the mystery dawns upon you. Then the doors are open; then you are invited. As a knower, nobody enters the divine; as a child, ignorant, not knowing at all- the mystery embraces you. With a knowing mind you are clever, not innocent. Innocence is the door. This Zen master was right when he said, "I don't understand it myself." It was very deep, really deep, the deepest answer possible. But this is the last part of the anecdote. Start from the very beginning.... The disciple came to the Zen master and said, "In what state of mind should I seek the truth?" The master said, "There is no mind so there cannot be any state of mind."

Mind is the illusion that which is not but appears, and appears so much that you think that you are the mind. Mind is maya, mind is just a dream, mind is just a projection... a soap bubble floating on a river. The sun is just rising, the rays penetrate the bubble; a rainbow is created and nothing is there in it. When you touch the bubble it is broken and everything disappears -- the rainbow, the beauty- nothing is left. Only emptiness becomes one with the infinite emptiness. Just a wall was there, a bubble wall. Your mind is just a bubble wall -- inside, your emptiness; outside, my emptiness. It is just a bubble, prick it, and the mind disappears.

-Rajneesh

Rajneesh Wrote:I am the rich man's guru.


--The Last Testament : Interviews with the World Press (1986) ISBN 0880502509

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Bhagwan_Shree_Rajneesh

A real master teaches you unlearning; it is never learning. You have come to me to unlearn whatsoever you know, never learning. You have come to me learned, so whatsoever you know, please drop it. Become ignorant, become like a child. Only the heart of a child can knock at the doors of the divine, and only the heart of a child is heard. Your prayers cannot be heard; they are cunning. Only a child, only a heart which doesn't know can be.

-Rajneesh

Language creates problems. Language is always dualistic, language is always of this world. Language belongs to desire and it carries all the connotations, so it is very difficult to say anything about that which is not of this world. Either you have to be silent -- even then, silence too can be misunderstood -- or you have to use language. And every word is loaded.

-Rajneesh

I used to think that Language was key to higher density learnings. I feel I am constantly unlearning, as I am often wrong.

it's all about becoming a receptive vessel again.

various thought forms and pre-conceptions cloud our ability to truly receive.

I found this to be a very good metaphor about being with/in the moment:

There is a Zen story: Two monasteries existed side by side and both the masters had small boys to run errands. Both the boys used to go to the market to fetch things for the masters -- sometimes vegetables, sometimes other things.

These monasteries were antagonistic towards each other, but boys will be boys. They would forget the doctrines and meet on the way and talk, enjoy. It was really prohibited to talk -- the other monastery was the enemy.

One day, the boy from the first monastery came and said, "I am puzzled. As I was going to the market, I saw the boy from the other monastery and asked him, `Where are you going?' He replied, `Wherever the wind blows.' I was at a loss as to what to say; he puzzled me.

The master said, "This is not good. Nobody from our monastery has ever been defeated by the other monastery, not even a servant, so you must fix that boy. Tomorrow, ask again where he is going. He will say, `Wherever the wind blows,' so you say, `If there is no wind, then?' "

The boy couldn't sleep the whole night. He tried and tried to conceive of what would happen the next day; he rehearsed many times. He would ask and the other boy would respond and then he would give his answer.

The next day he waited on the road. The other boy came and he asked, "Where are you going?" The boy said, "Wherever my feet lead me."

He was at a loss as to what to do. His answer was fixed; reality is unpredictable. He came back very sad and said to the master, "That boy is not trustworthy. He changed and I was at a loss as to what to do."

So the master said, "Next day when he answers, `Wherever my feet lead,' you tell him, `If you are crippled and your legs are cut off, then?' "

Again he couldn't sleep. He went early to wait on the road. When the boy came he asked, "Where are you going?" And the boy said "To fetch vegetables from the market." He became very disturbed and said to the master, "This boy is impossible: he goes on changing."

Life is that boy. Reality is not a fixed phenomenon. You have to be present, spontaneously in it -- only then will the response be real. If your answer is fixed beforehand you are already dead, you have already missed. Then tomorrow will come but you will not be there; you will be fixed in the yesterday, that which has passed. All the minds which are too verbal are fixed like this. Go to a pundit, a scholar, and ask, "What is God?" Before you have asked he will start answering. Your question is not answered because even before you had the question this man had the answer. The answer is dead; it is there already, it has just to be brought from the memory.

This is the difference between a man of wisdom and a man of knowledge. A man of knowledge has ready-made answers: you ask and the answer is already there. You are irrelevant, your question is irrelevant. Before the question, the answer exists; your question simply triggers the memory.

If you go to a man of wisdom he has no answers for you; he has nothing ready-made. He is open, he is silent. He'll respond but first your question will resound in his being, not in his memory. Through his being the response comes; nobody can predict that response. If you go the next day and ask the same question, the response will not be the same.

-Rajneesh

People come to me and ask, "If we meditate, what will happen? What will be the result?" Remember, meditation can never be result-oriented; you simply meditate, that's all.

Everything happens but it will not be a result. If you are seeking the result nothing will happen; meditation will be useless.

When you seek a result, it is the mind; when you don't seek a result, it is meditation. Kick the pot and walk out, meditate and walk out; don't ask for the result. Don't say, "What will happen?" If you think about what will happen you cannot meditate. The mind goes on thinking about the result; it cannot be here and now, it is always in the future. You are meditating and thinking, "When will the happiness come? It has not come yet."

If you forget the result completely, if there is not even a flicker in the mind for the result, not a single vibration moving into the future - when you have become a silent pool, here and now everything happens. In meditation cause and effect are not two - cause is the effect; the act and the result are not two - the act is the result - they are not divided. In meditation the seed and the tree are not two -, the seed is the tree.

-Rajneesh

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I just noticed this thread...I'm not a follower of Rajneesh but I know that quite a few seekers are.  In the spirit of sharing I have a recommendation: I spend considerable time at the David Icke website and there is a Rajneesh thread on the forum there.  There's a dedicated poster there who has done some fine work gathering hundreds of quotes and photographs which admirers of Osho would enjoy.  Anyone interested may go to the following link.

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthrea...1062337689

Once it happened that a disciple came to a Zen master and asked, "Why are a few people so intelligent and a few so stupid? Why are a few people so beautiful and a few so ugly? Why this inconsistency? If God is everywhere, if he is the creator, then why does he create one ugly and another beautiful? And don't talk to me about karmas. I have heard all those nonsensical answers - that because of karmas, past lives, one is beautiful, another is ugly. I am not concerned with past lives. In the beginning, when there was no yesterday, how did the difference come? Why was one created beautiful and another ugly? And if everyone was created equal, equally beautiful and intelligent, how can they act differently, how can they have different karmas?"

The master said, "Wait! This is such a secret thing that I will tell you when everybody has left." So the man sat, eager, but people kept coming and going and there was no chance. But by the evening everybody had left so the man said, "Now?"

And the master said, "Come out with me." The moon was coming up and the master took him in the garden and said, "Look, that tree there is small, this tree here is so tall. I have been living with these trees for many years and they have never raised the question of why that tree is small and this tree is big.

"When there was mind in me, I used to ask the same question sitting under these trees. Then my mind dropped, and the question dropped. Now I know. This tree is small and that tree is big; there is no problem. So look! There is no problem."

The mind compares. How can you compare when the mind is not? How can you say this tree is small and that tree big? When the mind drops, comparison drops, and when there is no comparison the beauty of existence erupts. It becomes a volcanic eruption, it explodes. Then you see the small is big and the big is small; then all contradictions are lost and the inner consistency is seen.

-Rajneesh

"We know only one miracle. We allow nature to have its own course, we don't interfere." Through interference comes the ego: the more you interfere, the more you manipulate, the more you feel you are somebody.

Look at the ascetics -- their egos are so refined and subtle, so shiny. Why? It is because they have interfered the most; you have not interfered so much. They have killed their sex, they have destroyed their love, they have suppressed their anger, they have completely destroyed their hunger and the feeling of the body. They have reason to be egoists: they are somebodies. Look in their eyes, there is nothing except ego.

Their bodies may be almost dead but their egos are at the supreme-most peak. They have become Everests.

These monks and saints will not be able to understand what Bankei means.He says, "We know only one miracle -- to allow nature to have its own course.

We don't interfere." If you don't interfere, you will disappear. Fighting is the way to be there.

People come to me and ask how to drop the ego. I tell them, Who will drop it? If you try to drop it you will be the ego, and someday you will claim that you have dropped the ego. And who is this claimer, who is claiming it? This is the ego, and the most subtle ego always tries to pretend egolessness.

-Rajneesh

Change yourself and food will change, clothes will change, sex will change. But change should come from the innermost core, it should not come from the periphery. And all turmoil is on the periphery; deep down there is no turmoil. You are just like the sea -- go and watch the sea. All the turmoil, all the waves clashing, is just on the surface; deep, the deeper you go, there is more and more calm. At the deepest part in the sea there is no turmoil, not a single wave.

First go deeper into your sea so you achieve a calm crystallization, so you achieve the point where no disturbance ever reaches. Stand there. From there every change comes, every transformation comes. Once you are there you have become a master; Now whatsoever is unnecessary can be dropped, and can be dropped without any struggle and fight.

-Rajneesh

One moment is enough. Live it, and then the next moment comes. But we dream, project, and create an illusory world, then again and again it comes up against reality. Reality is not going to be shattered by your dreams. The dreams will shatter.

So learn a lesson - don't project worlds. They create frustrations and misery and anguish. Just live this moment, that's all. Then wait, and when the next moment comes we will see.

-Rajneesh

Reminds me to this person and his polarity:

Non-being is the way to being, and love is the most adequate method to disappear.

That's why millions of people have decided not to love. If you decide in favor of the ego you will have to remain loveless. Love and ego cannot go together. Knowledge and ego go together perfectly well, but love and ego cannot go together, not at all. They cannot keep company. They are like darkness and light: if light is there darkness cannot be. Darkness can only be if light is not there. If love is not there the ego can be; if love is there the ego cannot be. And vice versa, if ego is dropped, love arrives from all the directions. It simply starts pouring in you from everywhere.

Just as nature abhors a vacuum, God also abhors a vacuum. You become a vacuum, and God rushes into you.

-Rajneesh

The Master brought the kettle, poured tea in the cup - and went on pouring. The cup was full, and the tea started overflowing in the saucer, but he went on pouring. Then the saucer was also full. lust one drop more and the tea would start flowing on the floor, and the professor said, "Stop! What are you doing? Are you mad or something? Can't you see the cup is full? Can't you see the saucer is full?"

And the Zen Master said, "That's the exact situation you are in: your mind is so full of questions that even if I answer, you don't have any space for the answer to go in. But you look like an intelligent man. You could see the point, that now even a single drop more of tea and it will not be contained by the cup or the saucer; it will start overflowing on the floor. And I tell you, since you entered this house, your questions are over-pouring on the floor, overflowing all over the place. Go back, empty your cup, and then come. First create a little space in you."

To create space is meditation. The Master had created a perfect situation.

-Rajneesh

The real question is not how to find truth - because you cannot find truth unless you are free. Truth arrives in freedom. Jesus has said, "Truth liberates." That is true. That is only half the story - that truth will make you free. The other side which has not been told to you is also as important: truth happens only in freedom. In fact, truth and freedom are two aspects of the same coin, they happen together. If you are unfree you cannot attain to truth, and if you have attained to truth you cannot be unfree. But from where to begin? If you start with truth you will become a victim of words, philosophies, theologies, scriptures. You will be lost in the jungle of linguistic logical speculations.

Start with freedom: that's my message to you. Come out of the prison that has been imposed upon you - and the prison cannot exist if you don't cooperate with it. That is the only ray of hope, that it cannot exist without your cooperation. But you cooperate with it. It feels safe, it feels secure, it feels convenient and comfortable, it feels warmer, and you have decorated it well from the inside.

-Rajneesh

How can you think about truth? You can think only about something you already know. Thinking can exist only within the boundary of the known. Truth is not known yet - how can you think about the unknown? The unknown cannot be thought about, the unknown has to be experienced.

But people go on thinking about truth, about God, about love. People go on thinking about things which have to be experienced and not thought about. But you have been told, "Become great thinkers and you will attain to truth." And a thinker is just a bio-computer, a thinker is never original.

-Rajneesh

(02-25-2015, 08:06 AM)Raz Wrote: [ -> ]How can you think about truth? You can think only about something you already know. Thinking can exist only within the boundary of the known. Truth is not known yet - how can you think about the unknown? The unknown cannot be thought about, the unknown has to be experienced.

But people go on thinking about truth, about God, about love. People go on thinking about things which have to be experienced and not thought about. But you have been told, "Become great thinkers and you will attain to truth." And a thinker is just a bio-computer, a thinker is never original.

-Rajneesh

I find Osho rather derivative, and sometimes confusing or even misleading, only occasionally using original metaphors or insights.  I'm somewhat biased, I admit, having been through a cult of personality with another teacher from India, a myopic obsession I now sincerely regret.  I learned some things, true enough - but I feel my progress was severely hampered by this relationship which lasted for far longer than I care to remember.  

As I stated in another thread, I believe the guru/chela relationship can be wholly positive, leading the disciple to the sacred temple in the heart where the Creator can be known.  But the guru must be a realized soul himself before he can assume the service of spiritual master.  If one has not attained to the highest realm of spiritual light, he may teach students in various disciplines but he is not authorized (realized) to profess the ability to offer the supreme vision of the Creator; this special service is reserved for those who are traditionally known as a Satguru.  To be sure, there are many impostors around, but it's my conclusion that the Creator has decreed that at least one Satguru be alive on Earth at all times should there be a need for such a one.  

Many people, it seems, find fulfillment in teachers like Osho which is fine - I can think of worse role models.  Generally speaking, the relationship is limited and temporary because the soul always yearns to reunite with its Source.  

Osho seems like an ok guy, despite the negative, criminal behavior emanating from within the hierarchy.  Personally, there are a few with whom I resonate...Yogananda, Ramakrishna, Guru Nanak, Kabir, Alan Watts, a few others....

What I like about the thread is that it reminds us of some of the timeless teachings of the spiritual path. 


Angelique w/Peter Gabriel - Salala
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PzeV4iPO9g

(02-25-2015, 08:59 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ]I find Osho rather derivative, and sometimes confusing or even misleading, only occasionally using original metaphors or insights.  I'm somewhat biased, I admit, having been through a cult of personality with another teacher from India, a myopic obsession I now sincerely regret.  I learned some things, true enough - but I feel my progress was severely hampered by this relationship which lasted for far longer than I care to remember.  

so Rajneesh is Osho?  

he's always referenced as Osho in his books.  Why do people (like this thread) use Rajneesh instead?

(02-26-2015, 04:09 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]

(02-25-2015, 08:59 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ]I find Osho rather derivative, and sometimes confusing or even misleading, only occasionally using original metaphors or insights.  I'm somewhat biased, I admit, having been through a cult of personality with another teacher from India, a myopic obsession I now sincerely regret.  I learned some things, true enough - but I feel my progress was severely hampered by this relationship which lasted for far longer than I care to remember.  

so Rajneesh is Osho?  

he's always referenced as Osho in his books.  Why do people (like this thread) use Rajneesh instead?

Osho is a name he adopted a couple years before his demise.  It's what most of his devotees use nowadays.

oh, thank you for that.  I've only ever read one of his books - The Book of Secrets - and that has various breath meditation techniques, and although I dabbled with it a bit, it's not the way I practice meditation.

thanks for the info.  I remember seeing a whole section at a metaphysical bookstore I used to frequent that was just full of Osho books, with his face and trademarked grizzled beard on the front.

(02-25-2015, 08:59 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ]I find Osho rather derivative, and sometimes confusing or even misleading, only occasionally using original metaphors or insights.  I'm somewhat biased, I admit, having been through a cult of personality with another teacher from India, a myopic obsession I now sincerely regret.  I learned some things, true enough - but I feel my progress was severely hampered by this relationship which lasted for far longer than I care to remember.  

As I stated in another thread, I believe the guru/chela relationship can be wholly positive, leading the disciple to the sacred temple in the heart where the Creator can be known.  But the guru must be a realized soul himself before he can assume the service of spiritual master.  If one has not attained to the highest realm of spiritual light, he may teach students in various disciplines but he is not authorized (realized) to profess the ability to offer the supreme vision of the Creator; this special service is reserved for those who are traditionally known as a Satguru.  To be sure, there are many impostors around, but it's my conclusion that the Creator has decreed that at least one Satguru be alive on Earth at all times should there be a need for such a one.  

Many people, it seems, find fulfillment in teachers like Osho which is fine - I can think of worse role models.  Generally speaking, the relationship is limited and temporary because the soul always yearns to reunite with its Source.  

Osho seems like an ok guy, despite the negative, criminal behavior emanating from within the hierarchy.  Personally, there are a few with whom I resonate...Yogananda, Ramakrishna, Guru Nanak, Kabir, Alan Watts, a few others....

"(followers) executed the largest biological terrorism attack in U.S. history, poisoning at least 700 people. They ran the largest illegal wiretapping operation ever uncovered. And their immigration fraud to harbor foreigners remains unrivaled in scope. The revelations brought criminal charges, defections, global manhunts and prison time.

But there was much more...."

"...marked Oregon's chief federal prosecutor for murder....the Rajneeshees also stalked the state attorney general, lining him up for death."

"They contaminated salad bars at numerous restaurants....The Oregonian's examination reveals for the first time that they just as eagerly spread dangerous bacteria at a grocery store, a public building and a political rally."

"To strike at government authority, Rajneeshee leaders considered flying a bomb-laden plane into the county courthouse in The Dalles "

"And power struggles within Rajneeshee leadership spawned plans to murder even some of their own. The guru's caretaker was to be killed in her bed, spared only by a simple mistake."

http://www.oregonlive.com/rajneesh/index...an_we.html

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That's some outlandish s***, man.  Makes you wonder what it was about the Raj which attracted some hard-core misfits to his inner circle.  To be fair, it seems there are a fair percentage of Indian teachers who have garnered less than admirable reputations due to a variety of transgressions.  But surely, the few you attribute to the Rajneeshees (I've not confirmed your allegations but I assume you have it on documented authority) stand out as the most extreme criminal behavior of the lot.  

I can only say that, when searching for a teacher of the spiritual life, examine all you can about his qualifications and his character before placing your trust in him.  This is not to say that Rajneesh ordered or even knew about everything going on - I don't know and I don't care.  Again, do the research and listen to your intuition.

Welcome to the forum, Sheldor.

(02-27-2015, 11:34 PM)indolering Wrote: [ -> ].
That's some outlandish s***, man.  Makes you wonder what it was about the Raj which attracted some hard-core misfits to his inner circle.  To be fair, it seems there are a fair percentage of Indian teachers who have garnered less than admirable reputations due to a variety of transgressions.  But surely, the few you attribute to the Rajneeshees (I've not confirmed your allegations but I assume you have it on documented authority) stand out as the most extreme criminal behavior of the lot.  

I can only say that, when searching for a teacher of the spiritual life, examine all you can about his qualifications and his character before placing your trust in him.  This is not to say that Rajneesh ordered or even knew about everything going on - I don't know and I don't care.  Again, do the research and listen to your intuition.

Welcome to the forum, Sheldor.

thankyou indolering... not sure how much I'll interact here.. I'm seeing a fair bit of aggressive ego... even bullying in some posts...

did you go to the link?.... it's all verified... and there are many many sources/people to verify the negativity, lies, illusions:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/escaping-the...-a2vp.html

http://www.enlightened-spirituality.org/rajneesh.html

http://meditation-handbook.50webs.com/osho2.html

I look forward to your thoughts if you have time to read the information at these links...

- there are so many authentic articles available....

If a trumpet killed a man;
would the music played through that trumpet become less valid to be moved and inspired by even if played by other trumpets?
I find it fascinating that part of me is moved to ask to have this thread removed.
The trumpet was not the source of the music, only the instrument of it´s expression.

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I read a good deal of the links you provided, Sheldor, and as you suggest, there's plenty of evidence to discourage anyone from devoting oneself to Rajneesh for spiritual fulfillment.  It's appalling what went down in Oregon and it's seems likely that the Raj was aware and condoned much of the criminal activity.  What a bunch of screwballs.  Only in America....

Since posting I've reflected that I was in a hurry and feeling triggered by this thread, and that it would have been kind to indicate to Raz my respect for his good intentions in starting it. His intentions were positive for sure.

The history of Rajneesh/Osho (and similar) greatly upsets me as I have a dear friend who's lost his emotional/intellectual and spiritual freedom to a similar 'cult of personality' new-age movement. The situation he is in is very serious and very destructive.

But I didn't intend to be confrontational Raz, and apologise for posting the links without explaining fully the context of my reasons for doing so.

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I don't know you, Raz, but I feel you understand everyone's feelings and don't take offense.  I have a friend on the David Icke forum who runs a Rajneesh thread, and I encouraged those here to look at the fine work he's done with posting quotes and photos.  I think on a mature site like this we can be honest with each other without being weird or aggressive.  The Ra Material is extremely special and we need to represent in a cordial and intelligent manner.  And that is mostly the case here.