Bring4th

If I am outside somewhere and mosquitoes are biting me, swatting and killing one or two or 5 is hardly going to make a dent in their population. I usually gently and persistently brush them away. I use the time to work with my consciousness and go between trying to ward them away and allowing them a meal on me. It's not like mosquitoes cause pain or anything, just the most minor irritation... and honestly since changing to a cleaner diet, my physical reaction to mosquito bites is almost null. They're gone within hours.

For a tick, yeah, I would try to take them outside and release them and wish them well- why the need for double vengeance? You've already removed the being from their food source, no need to add insult to injury. Chances of them finding their way back to me to strike again are also basically null. The thing is, every tick on your groin is catalyst upon which you can make a choice - to serve the other or to serve the self.

Anything that is a "pest" who gets into my home gets removed as gently as possible. We had mice pretty bad last winter and we caught and released all of them. Only one of them died in the catching process, and one unfortunately met their demise immediately upon release when a crow saw them frantically running across the street. My husband caught several by hand; others were caught with nonlethal traps. He also catches many bugs in his hands and takes them outside.

I wouldn't justify consuming anything from the ocean, regardless of where it lies on the food chain, because our oceans are extremely sick and dying and that's a big deciding factor in my continuing veganism.

The only way I would seek to injure or hurt another second density entity is if one was attacking another one who was in my care. Like, when the bear attacked our chicken coop, I have no regrets that my husband pelted the bear in the face with a piece of jasper as hard as he could. If I was walking my small shih tzu and another larger dog came up aggressively, I would defend him. But as far as seeking out to destroy second density entities... that is never on my list of things to do and always on my list of things to avoid at all costs.

I just love you Jade, it's too good to read your post. I love mice, we have some, they are tiny and so adorable, I am always praying they do not appear in front of my husband because I am not sure his reaction would be that peaceful. They usually look at me for a short while, just to evaluate where I am I guess in my spiritual quota then they walk away sort of quietly.

 
Mosquitoes are a big catalyst for me in this incarnation.  Still unable to find Love for them...
 

(11-25-2018, 10:34 PM)MangusKhan Wrote: [ -> ]At what point does it become acceptable to consume or destroy second-density beings? Do the vegans here slap mosquitoes? If you pulled a tick from your groin, would you set it back on a leaf and wish it well? Do you believe it's wrong to consume basic sea creatures like mussels, or even anchovies?

I've gone basically vegan now, but if an organism lies sufficiently close to the bottom of the food chain, or is harmful parasite, then I see no problem with sending it back to its group-soul.

For my part, I'm interested in causing the least harm to all life.

Even parasites are part of the ecosystem. I don't happen to like the way things are set up here, but it is what it is. I would, for example, in the case of a tick, first take any preventative measures to avoid contact, and then, yes, I would try to extract it and let it live. 

I don't kill anything, aside from the plant food I must eat to survive. Even in that, I try to make choices that cause the least harm.

I have been vegetarian for a very long time, and vegan for quite some time. Mosquitoes hardly ever bite me—almost never—even when others are getting bitten. I have always attributed that to the fact of not being a meat-eater, but I don't really know. Even so, I would not kill them. What good does it do anyway? Another will come along. Either go inside, stay away from water sources, use an insect repellant in the form of an essential oil, or research some way to keep them away—that's what I would do. If an insect lands on me that I don't want on me, I strongly blow them off rather than brush them off—there's less chance of getting bitten or harming the insect.

A scorpion once woke me because of a sting while I was sleeping. I saw it on my shoulder and jumped out of bed. I took it safely outside. Why kill it? There is no malice in the scorpion. It doesn't deserve death because it stung me when it felt threatened.

I have a mouse and squirrel issue at my house as well. The weather has cooled down, so I will be lighting the attic full-time with halogens—that will keep away the squirrels living there because they like the dark. As for mice that get in the house, I too transport them outside with a Havahart trap. If you have cats in the house, that will keep the mice out. It's also important to shore up any places where they get in if possible. 

My point is to look for ways of dealing with, living amicably with, and sharing the planet with all living things. Humans simply are not more important than other life forms. And I see no point in drawing a line between those beings worthy of having their lives spared, and those not. There is definitely a different emotional response to killing a puppy and killing a mosquito, for a variety of reasons. But how reliable is that? Put your hand on your heart, center your mind, and ask the question: Should I kill this living thing? 

Diana, your righteous scorpion story reminded me of a Zen tale:

Two monks were washing their bowls in the river when they noticed a scorpion that was drowning. One monk immediately scooped it up and set it upon the bank. In the process he was stung. He went back to washing his bowl and again the scorpion fell in. The monk saved the scorpion and was again stung. The other monk asked him, "Friend, why do you continue to save the scorpion when you know it's nature is to sting?"

"Because," the monk replied, "to save it is my nature."

Great story, I am Shayne.

(11-25-2018, 05:19 AM)Bring4th_Plenum Wrote: [ -> ]It's on the Labor Day weekend, and it's in Louisville, Kentucky.

It gets announced around March or April I think.

Thanks Plenum! So Louiseville Kentucky, Labor Day Weekend. Gotcha.

So next homecoming will be around September 2nd? Wow! I'll be nearing 30 by that time. I feel so old...

(11-26-2018, 03:18 PM)EvolvingPhoenix Wrote: [ -> ]...I'll be nearing 30 by that time. I feel so old...

30 is old, but 31 is young again.  Same with 40 and 41, etc...
 

Thank you Jade and Diana for sharing your perspectives on the matter. It's admirable that you two have the ability to wish well for a creature like a tick, who brings suffering to so many creatures. I sleep in a tent in a small forest now, and have pulled a few ticks from my body and destroyed them, as well as destroyed many ticks which I simply found on my tent or the surrounding vegetation. I have judged this particular creature to be of little value to creation.

I totally agree about peacefully removing common house pests though. If I ever stay in any residence with other people, I inevitably become the spider-remover. Spiders are beautiful creatures (but ticks are not). I'll let a giant huntsmen spider crawl all over me just to show fearful worldlings that they are harmless. Fear and fear reactions usually only cause harm. I once turned a badly fractured collar-bone into a clean break by impulsively reacting with fear to the sudden appearance of a giant beach cricket on the arm connected to the fractured bone. If I had only calmly observed that insect and removed it with my other hand, I could have saved myself a week of agony.

Quote:I wouldn't justify consuming anything from the ocean, regardless of where it lies on the food chain, because our oceans are extremely sick and dying and that's a big deciding factor in my continuing veganism.

In the case of mussels, I'd like you justify why NOT to consume them. They are farmed in an unimposing fashion from floating platforms, are extremely low on the spectrum of conscious awareness (comparable to plants), and they are delicious and nutritious. There are other similar aquatic creatures like this as well. As for anchovies, these are one of the most abundant and sustainable kinds of sea life on the planet, and can be fished effectively with almost zero by-catch of other creatures. The only practical reason I can see not to enjoy these creatures as food is a valid fear of consuming toxins due to the pollution of the ocean.

The mental image of your hubby pelting a bear in the face with a piece of jasper to protect your birds is simply epic. I'm certain the bear was alright. Thank you for sharing that, Jade.

Quote:My point is to look for ways of dealing with, living amicably with, and sharing the planet with all living things. Humans simply are not more important than other life forms. And I see no point in drawing a line between those beings worthy of having their lives spared, and those not. There is definitely a different emotional response to killing a puppy and killing a mosquito, for a variety of reasons. But how reliable is that? Put your hand on your heart, center your mind, and ask the question: Should I kill this living thing?

Diana, I am contemplating these words now, but I can't guarantee that there will ever be a soft spot in my heart for harmful parasitic beings, or say with honesty that I believe no distinction should be drawn in regards to 2D beings worth preserving, and those which are not. We must all decide the limits of our acceptance, and I reserve the right to deem any creature worthy or unworthy of my tolerance.

What is your definition of parasite? Because when you show resistance towards accepting parasites, all I can think of is what humans have done to each other, this planet, and the rest of the species upon it. If Earth is our host, we have done her much more wrong than any tick has ever done to you or me. So while you're trying to draw this line between second density beings, I'm trying to see why the same expectations (or greater!) cannot be applied to third density beings.

(11-27-2018, 12:18 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]What is your definition of parasite? Because when you show resistance towards accepting parasites, all I can think of is what humans have done to each other, this planet, and the rest of the species upon it. If Earth is our host, we have done her much more wrong than any tick has ever done to you or me. So while you're trying to draw this line between second density beings, I'm trying to see why the same expectations (or greater!) cannot be applied to third density beings.

This is excellent and straight to the meaningful point—an insight so worth considering.

We had a trendy saying in China not long ago, mostly among the younger populations, it goes like: there is a kind of cold called “your mom thinks you feel cold”.

(11-27-2018, 01:17 PM)Highrculling Wrote: [ -> ]We had a trendy saying in China not long ago, mostly among the younger populations, it goes like: there is a kind of cold called “your mom thinks you feel cold”.

Is this a reference to anthropomorphizing?

My understanding is that our planet is doing this willfully.  We are welcomed here, even if once here we trash the place.  Meanwhile, I have absolutely no idea how I would ever welcome mosquitoes to my body in the same way.  So our planet is definitely awesome ! 
 

(11-27-2018, 12:18 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: [ -> ]What is your definition of parasite? Because when you show resistance towards accepting parasites, all I can think of is what humans have done to each other, this planet, and the rest of the species upon it. If Earth is our host, we have done her much more wrong than any tick has ever done to you or me. So while you're trying to draw this line between second density beings, I'm trying to see why the same expectations (or greater!) cannot be applied to third density beings.

A parasite is any organism which inserts itself into a balanced and well-functioning biosphere to steal life from those who earn it. The spider, with its phenomenal webs and legs, joins the dance of nature and earns its meals, each spider alive increases the beauty of the planet. The tick, by comparison, adds nothing. It takes and takes, and gives poison in return, a sluggish, fat, ugly parasite. You are right, humans have become like parasites to the earth, but mostly unconsciously. Even within the garden of humanity, there are those who bear no good fruits, but simply strangle and overrun the other plants. How can there be a harvest if your fields are overrun by weeds? There can't be.

So you are right on the money, Jade. This abhorrence towards parasites extends far beyond ticks.

Don't get the wrong idea though. As much as I hate the bad, I love the good. I can spend half an hour admiring the intricate beauty of a weevil I found in my hair, and I am in the process of single-handedly cleaning up the small nature reserve I've appointed myself custodian of. These posts might seem somewhat antagonistic, but don't doubt my love for you for even a second, because I have judged you as beautiful and completely worthwhile. It's just that, while one is a being of 3rd density, one must accept the plights of third density. Sure, if one were situated in the bliss and the peace of the sixth density, one could smile upon the wicked and content oneself with saying "all is one". However, this attitude equates to little more than foolishness for beings who exist in lower densities. Let a fool smile as his good plants die and his garden becomes a breeding ground for thistles and brambles. The wise will pull out weeds, heap them in a pile, and burn them.

Highrculling Wrote:there is a kind of cold called “your mom thinks you feel cold”.

You're going to have to explain this one to me.

I came across this (in-your-face but interesting) quote from John Joseph (musician, author and triathlete from New York City, most famous for his work as the lead singer of the Cro-Mags) on resistance:

Quote:“Resistance has no conscience. It will pledge anything to get a deal then double-cross you as soon as your back is turned. If you take resistance at its word, you deserve everything you get. Resistance is always lying and always full of sh*t.” 

― John Joseph, [font=Lato,]Meat Is for Pussies: A How-To Guide for Dudes Who Want to Get Fit, Kick Ass, and Take Names[/font]

(11-28-2018, 02:26 PM)Diana Wrote: [ -> ]I came across this (in-your-face but interesting) quote from John Joseph (musician, author and triathlete from New York City, most famous for his work as the lead singer of the Cro-Mags) on resistance:

Quote:“Resistance has no conscience. It will pledge anything to get a deal then double-cross you as soon as your back is turned. If you take resistance at its word, you deserve everything you get. Resistance is always lying and always full of sh*t.” 

― John Joseph, [font=Lato,]Meat Is for Pussies: A How-To Guide for Dudes Who Want to Get Fit, Kick Ass, and Take Names[/font]

I feel like this quote needs context. I got a good chuckle out of that book title though.

(11-28-2018, 08:28 PM)MangusKhan Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like this quote needs context. I got a good chuckle out of that book title though.

Me too—the chuckle that is.

The context was something Jade said about resistance—actually, there wasn't a context per say….I came across the quote and found it thought-provoking, so I injected here because the word, resistance, was in a sentence somewhere a few posts back.

VEGAN CROPS PRODUCE 1900% MORE PROTEIN THAN RAISING ANIMALS FOR BEEF OR EGGS, STUDY FINDS

(wish they didn't have the title in all caps)

“Because plant alternatives need less land per unit protein or energy, replacing animal-based items with plant alternatives frees up agricultural land that can then be repurposed for growing additional food,” the study reads. In fact, research published by the University of Oxford said that global land use would drop by 75 percent if everyone stopped eating beef and went vegan.

I love red potatoes

(11-27-2018, 01:49 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ]My understanding is that our planet is doing this willfully.  We are welcomed here, even if once here we trash the place.  Meanwhile, I have absolutely no idea how I would ever welcome mosquitoes to my body in the same way.  So our planet is definitely awesome ! 
 

This is a passage from Zen Master Raven; a light hearted zen dialogue between animals. This one having to do with appreciating mosquitoes:


One night after a meeting, the Tallspruce community lingered in the dark under the stars, and Raven reminisced about his time with Brown Bear. “I remember,” he said, “one day when I wasn’t feeling well, and Brown Bear Roshi had me rest in his cave. Somehow it was a special gatering place for mosquitoes. One of them suspended herself before my face. She was almost not there – so fragile, her long, thread-like legs hanging down motionless. I marveled that she was a living being with appetites and incentive, yet hardly more than a gossamer.
“In our sutras we chant the lines ‘Forms are no other than emptiness; emptiness no other than forms.’ Sometime earlier when I was looking up at the night sky, I thought I understood that passage, but when I was resting in Brown Bear’s lair and I felt that mosquito sink her long proboscis into my face, I was at last able to appreciate the mystery.

 
Imagine being Vegan while being diagnosed Celiac...  My fiancee was just diagnosed Celiac.  We are only vegetarians though, so it's not such a big issue.  But I was thinking that a Vegan Celiac would have a real hard time.  Anyone out there in this situation ?
 

(02-01-2019, 12:52 PM)Patrick Wrote: [ -> ] 
Imagine being Vegan while being diagnosed Celiac...  My fiancee was just diagnosed Celiac.  We are only vegetarians though, so it's not such a big issue.  But I was thinking that a Vegan Celiac would have a real hard time.  Anyone out there in this situation ?
 

On a similar subject - a vegan with gluten sensitivity recently developed with its ibs-like symptoms when I eat moderate to large amounts of bread (resurgence from a decade ago) - I officially put my foot in my mouth regarding b12 deficiency.

I basically developed a lot of deficiencies due to ibs/poor nutrient absorption during my period of 5 years of veganism (mainly showing up 3 years in, around the time when life stress triggered my gluten sensitivity again.).

These deficiencies included zinc and b12. Normal made for vegan multivitamins (alive and Kirkland) did NOT have enough zinc or b12 to overcome my deficiency paired with ibs’s low absorption. Dedicated zinc and b12 only supplements with much larger quantities were the only answer.

So happy to admit I was wrong to dismiss b12 concerns - happy because it feels great to finally get to the bottom of health issues! And still going strong on 5 years of veganism - here’s to many more!

xise I am so glad you made it through !! I love eggs too much and butter to be a vegan again... I did have some issues after a while when I was, I am so glad for you xise