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RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Henosis - 06-07-2017
By the way anagogy,
What I'm doing (possibly self defeatingly) when I'm talking about this is dividing the potential (awareness) into a potential and a kinetic phase. Something within me won't let me content myself with awareness being the fundamental substratum!
So let's say intelligent infinity is the potential, and intelligent energy is the kinetic, and the Logos is the intermediary between the two, I am further dividing the potential (intelligent infinity) prior to the creation of the Logos into a potential and a kinetic phase. This is the reason I refer to awareness as the kinetic phase and hint at something mysterious as the potential phase rather than awareness.
All because Ra just hadddd to say "Infinity became aware. This was the next step."
You likely know this is what I'm doing, but just thought I'd explain my madness lol.
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - anagogy - 06-07-2017
(06-07-2017, 04:17 PM)Henosis Wrote: By the way anagogy,
What I'm doing (possibly self defeatingly) when I'm talking about this is dividing the potential (awareness) into a potential and a kinetic phase. Something within me won't let me content myself with awareness being the fundamental substratum!
So let's say intelligent infinity is the potential, and intelligent energy is the kinetic, and the Logos is the intermediary between the two, I am further dividing the potential (intelligent infinity) prior to the creation of the Logos into a potential and a kinetic phase. This is the reason I refer to awareness as the kinetic phase and hint at something mysterious as the potential phase rather than awareness.
All because Ra just hadddd to say "Infinity became aware. This was the next step."
You likely know this is what I'm doing, but just thought I'd explain my madness lol.
It's understandable, it is just a line of inquiry I can't metaphysically follow you down because to me, existence and awareness are absolutely concomitant.
Without awareness even if something exists, it might as well not. If a tree falls in the forest and no one is there to see it, how do you know it was there in the first place?
You don't.
Also, from my perspective the word "intelligent" has no meaning without awareness in there somewhere, because awareness is the very essence of intelligence. It is the very heart of "comprehension". Also Ra has said that there is no potential or kinetic in unity itself, which to my way of thinking would imply that active and passive are the same thing there. That would imply that awareness is there, but it isn't deliberately focused (free will being applied).
But if you conceptualize kinetic as awareness, which you are doing, your deductions are natural and expected.
But as I've said, I don't view kinetic as awareness, or the potential, I see kinetic and potential both as subsets of awareness. One being passive the other being active.
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Henosis - 06-07-2017
I understand.
I'm coming from an overly rational mind. As mentioned, the STS path usually favors this mind. However this overly rational and abstract type of thought I feel has allowed me to "rapidly polarize" over the last couple years of becoming conscious, as Ra mentioned may often be the case.
And alas! What you mentioned is the root of how we're seeing this differently.
In my understanding, intelligence is the very essence of awareness. From your understanding, awareness is the very essence of intelligence. I also see the terms as somewhat synonymous, the difference only appearing when you attempt to really drill down on what Is.
Cheers!
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Observer - 06-10-2017
I never ends, I is I, therefore I shall always be. Consciousness is what you make it, Whos to say you aren't the deciding factor on whether I still exists in the first place?
Regardless of if other selves are included in the consciousness you share with yourself, you would still be I, just a different form of I in perfect harmony with other I's. Lots of I's involved when you think about the lack of identification with self, but realistically there is no separation to begin with, we are all one consciousness already and "I" already ceases to exist the moment you realize oneness.
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Agua del Cielo - 06-10-2017
I am curious, what do you expect finding out about this through speculation?
The only way to know is through experiencing it.
Sorry to play my "the intellect will never understand" song again, but one characteristic of intelligent infinity is the absense of intellect, of one can call this a characteristic.
So how do you expect the intellect will ever be capable of grasping this?
I feel, this speculation has a potential of creating an obstacle instead of being of help.
The inteelect has a tendency to project itself "onward", meaning, imagining higher densities or even intelligent infinity are like the intellect but on a much larger scale.
So, this route doesnt offer a perspective, i believe.
If you did not experience it, there is no way imagining it.
If you did, theres no need imagining it.
edit:
A question for better understanding:
since some of the post do sound rather like a statement than a theory, do you speak from experience? Did you experience this?
Or do you speculate?
I apologize in vase i get you wrong and you re speaking from experience, consider my post obsolete then, please!
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - rva_jeremy - 06-14-2017
(04-19-2017, 04:56 PM)Henosis Wrote: At what stage of evolution will I cease to think or feel in terms of "I"?
That's something I've pondered quite a bit myself. The sense I've gotten from several sources, not just Confederation, is that we tend to define our sense of self by our limited perspective. Much of our inner discourse that constructs our "ego selves" constitutes a running attempt to constrain our viewpoint in order to make an ego self possible, relevant, and necessary. We have this sense that merging into a greater identity will be a loss of who we are, but over and over again I see this refuted, though it's something I have a very foggy and uncertain grasp of. But part of the gist seems to be that we erroneously identify ourselves with this restricting, limiting inner narrative, and that that narrative is totally unnecessary to be "ourselves"--it's just necessary to be ourselves in this third density, yellow ray, socially vehicular manner. Many sources say repeatedly that there will be no loss of ourself in social memory; in fact, we'll be much more our individual selves within the collective. This seems completely and totally contradictory, however, and leads me to believe that we have no idea who we are in third density, and most of our agency in this density is indeed a kind of dream--the same way that you can take actions in a dream without it really feeling like something you'd really do. It's you, but it's not you.
My takeaway from this is just trying to ponder and accept the premise that identity is a very fluid and unfixed concept, which totally runs up against all of our lived experience in "the real world". Except perhaps on the internet, where it is possible to play with one's identity presentation to others, and you see a lot of social discomfort there (to the point where people have been talking about regulating online identities for over a decade, because so much of our society is built upon the concept of a fixed identity in a one-to-one relationship with a "person").
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - anagogy - 06-23-2017
This is how I see spirit and its relationship to mind and body. These are just my realizations based on my limited contact with infinite intelligence, my concepts are always evolving but it is fun to try to occasionally attempt to put them into some form of crystallized prose:
![[Image: qt3.gif]](http://www.thur.de/philo/project/qt3.gif)
The One
The eye, is BEINGNESS, or SPIRIT. Raw *existence*. I also like to call it "clear light".
To me, that is the most absolutely basic substratum of reality upon which all else is predicated. Pure unpotentiated infinite intelligence. This is the ontological primitive. The irreducible. The re-barb of the cosmos.
As Ra said, it cannot be specified by any sort of physics at this level, because this energy is beyond "rules" or "limitations". This is the place where limitations are both forged and destroyed. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. The unblinking and silent ALL. This is pure creative energy. This is pure unpotentiated WILL.
We might also describe it as "seeingness". This is the core of Self. The EYE/I, in its natural state, cannot see itself. Because it is absolutely and totally without form, yet containing all forms within it. The infinite cosmic and eternal plenum containing all that is, was, and ever shall be. This is the infinite and eternal field which "illuminates" all objects of the Real. All conceivable variety is contained here. It is the Source of all creativity and inspiration. I've attempted to define it, but by its very nature, it is in reality undefinable (but again, this is just for fun).
There is an awareness of infinite possibility here. But there is no specific, defined, concept of self here, just blissful awareness of infinite potential. There is awareness that all is one and one is all. There is also a budding and primal NEED to CREATE. A need for creative expression. This necessitates the forging of limitations or parameters.
This is the single ripple in infinity that inevitably potentiates free will into activation, taking us seemingly out of the absolutely still and undistorted and perfected Nirvana and into the realm of illusion.
When this intelligent infinity says "what am I?", and thus chooses to "know itself" this immediately throws it, perceptually, into a lower, or more distorted, energy shell of infinity: the realm of MIND -- the realm of thought, of concept -- intangible and mental forms. A concept of self forms out of this infinite potential. The Logos then moves upon the face of the deep. It now can see itself as a concept, in time/space reference. It now how has a sort of cosmic ego of sorts. A symbolic lower level reflection of the Beingness it was before.
Essentially, mind acts as a mirror for spirit. It allows Beingness to be self referential. The only problem is though that, as all mirrors, it INVERTS the image being seen. So the reflection that appears is an opposite of the "true reality". Thus when spirit looks in the mirror of mind, it sees matter, which is the exact opposite of spirit. From spirits vantage point, there is no such thing as distorted matter, for all is one. But from the minds vantage point, spirit and matter are opposites. One radiates, and one absorbs. There are a ton of archetypal subtleties and implications to this, but I don't have time to go into them here.
When spirit looked into the mirror of mind (the Logos manifestation), the third distortion Light came into being. This was primal matter or the first subtle bodily manifestation. This was the cosmic Light BODY of the Logos, which is also the entirety of our cosmos. The first manifestation of this Light, or primal matter, in violet ray was not very distorted. But with each sequential ray the Light became more and more solidified until you get down to red ray matter, which is the most tangible and distorted manifestation of Light there is.
Thus you have the material illusion.
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Henosis - 06-29-2017
(06-23-2017, 03:37 PM)anagogy Wrote: This is how I see spirit and its relationship to mind and body. These are just my realizations based on my limited contact with infinite intelligence, my concepts are always evolving but it is fun to try to occasionally attempt to put them into some form of crystallized prose:
The One
The eye, is BEINGNESS, or SPIRIT. Raw *existence*. I also like to call it "clear light".
To me, that is the most absolutely basic substratum of reality upon which all else is predicated. Pure unpotentiated infinite intelligence. This is the ontological primitive. The irreducible. The re-barb of the cosmos.
As Ra said, it cannot be specified by any sort of physics at this level, because this energy is beyond "rules" or "limitations". This is the place where limitations are both forged and destroyed. The Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end. The unblinking and silent ALL. This is pure creative energy. This is pure unpotentiated WILL.
We might also describe it as "seeingness". This is the core of Self. The EYE/I, in its natural state, cannot see itself. Because it is absolutely and totally without form, yet containing all forms within it. The infinite cosmic and eternal plenum containing all that is, was, and ever shall be. This is the infinite and eternal field which "illuminates" all objects of the Real. All conceivable variety is contained here. It is the Source of all creativity and inspiration. I've attempted to define it, but by its very nature, it is in reality undefinable (but again, this is just for fun).
There is an awareness of infinite possibility here. But there is no specific, defined, concept of self here, just blissful awareness of infinite potential. There is awareness that all is one and one is all. There is also a budding and primal NEED to CREATE. A need for creative expression. This necessitates the forging of limitations or parameters.
This is the single ripple in infinity that inevitably potentiates free will into activation, taking us seemingly out of the absolutely still and undistorted and perfected Nirvana and into the realm of illusion.
When this intelligent infinity says "what am I?", and thus chooses to "know itself" this immediately throws it, perceptually, into a lower, or more distorted, energy shell of infinity: the realm of MIND -- the realm of thought, of concept -- intangible and mental forms. A concept of self forms out of this infinite potential. The Logos then moves upon the face of the deep. It now can see itself as a concept, in time/space reference. It now how has a sort of cosmic ego of sorts. A symbolic lower level reflection of the Beingness it was before.
Essentially, mind acts as a mirror for spirit. It allows Beingness to be self referential. The only problem is though that, as all mirrors, it INVERTS the image being seen. So the reflection that appears is an opposite of the "true reality". Thus when spirit looks in the mirror of mind, it sees matter, which is the exact opposite of spirit. From spirits vantage point, there is no such thing as distorted matter, for all is one. But from the minds vantage point, spirit and matter are opposites. One radiates, and one absorbs. There are a ton of archetypal subtleties and implications to this, but I don't have time to go into them here.
When spirit looked into the mirror of mind (the Logos manifestation), the third distortion Light came into being. This was primal matter or the first subtle bodily manifestation. This was the cosmic Light BODY of the Logos, which is also the entirety of our cosmos. The first manifestation of this Light, or primal matter, in violet ray was not very distorted. But with each sequential ray the Light became more and more solidified until you get down to red ray matter, which is the most tangible and distorted manifestation of Light there is.
Thus you have the material illusion.
Great post anagogy! I've been offline for a bit. I don't have a bunch of time at the moment to respond, but I attached a file that summarizes my personal understanding of the initial emanative process of the Absolute. It's a similar approach to Meher Baba's philosophy.
Hope you are well my friend!
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Henosis - 06-30-2017
In reference to the original question, I think the answer from my own understanding of what I was originally attempting to clarify would be that blue line between Awareness and Object (the Logos).
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - Sprout - 07-17-2017
Once all distortion is removed what remains is awareness. The law is one, therefore for us to return as one ego/personality becomes a story in the infinite library of the one creator. Thus we always have and will be an aware "I".
RE: When will "I" cease to be? - unity100 - 07-18-2017
As you evolve and become spiritually larger, you encompass more of existence. So, your active "I" changes. The past you becomes a limited, smaller subset of the new 'you'.
"We" is indeed a better term. Even currently, you are a 'we' which is comprised of infinite number of past characters which lived infinite number of experiences.
Just similar to how Ra talks about itself as "I am Ra", however it is a union of ~60 million+ entities...