(04-15-2021, 11:52 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 02:16 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 12:01 PM)Patrick Wrote: My parents always used that saying in order to say that you can't just say you're going to do good, you also have to do it. So "intentions aren't good enough, there must also be action".

Its the actions that actually pave the road to hell. The missing ingredient is understanding what your actions are leading to, so in other words, understanding the results/consequences.

So they should have said, you just can't say your going to do good, but you have to know that it actually is. Then do it.

This reminds me of the giving homeless drugs thread. Your intent on positive action may signify your polarity, but the actual consequences of acting on those intents is what produces karma.

As far as I'm aware, it's the intent that causes the karma. Could be wrong though.

(04-15-2021, 11:55 AM)zedro Wrote:

(04-15-2021, 11:52 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 02:16 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 12:01 PM)Patrick Wrote: My parents always used that saying in order to say that you can't just say you're going to do good, you also have to do it. So "intentions aren't good enough, there must also be action".

Its the actions that actually pave the road to hell. The missing ingredient is understanding what your actions are leading to, so in other words, understanding the results/consequences.

So they should have said, you just can't say your going to do good, but you have to know that it actually is. Then do it.

This reminds me of the giving homeless drugs thread. Your intent on positive action may signify your polarity, but the actual consequences of acting on those intents is what produces karma.

As far as I'm aware, it's the intent that causes the karma. Could be wrong though.

No because action causes consequence on the other, hence karma, which is external. Intent is polarity, which is internal and only affects the self.

(04-15-2021, 11:57 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote: Interesting. So how do the negatives here on Earth not have to face their karma for millennia?

(04-15-2021, 11:52 AM)Great Central Sun Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 02:16 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-14-2021, 12:01 PM)Patrick Wrote: My parents always used that saying in order to say that you can't just say you're going to do good, you also have to do it. So "intentions aren't good enough, there must also be action".

Its the actions that actually pave the road to hell. The missing ingredient is understanding what your actions are leading to, so in other words, understanding the results/consequences.

So they should have said, you just can't say your going to do good, but you have to know that it actually is. Then do it.

This reminds me of the giving homeless drugs thread. Your intent on positive action may signify your polarity, but the actual consequences of acting on those intents is what produces karma.

As far as I'm aware, it's the intent that causes the karma. Could be wrong though.

(04-15-2021, 12:33 PM)Patrick Wrote: It's not the intent alone. Karma requires the action, BUT the karma resulting from an action is supremely affected by the intent behind the action.

Karma is not a stupid calculation only based on actions. It is an exquisitely precise calculation where your intent has a very heavy weight.

(04-15-2021, 12:37 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-15-2021, 12:33 PM)Patrick Wrote: It's not the intent alone. Karma requires the action, BUT the karma resulting from an action is supremely affected by the intent behind the action.

Karma is not a stupid calculation only based on actions. It is an exquisitely precise calculation where your intent has a very heavy weight.

Of course, intent/polarity is the potential, action/karma is the kinetic. Everything is a push-pull recursive system of potential vs kinetic.

Karma (kinetic energy) then later informs polarity as it creates new potential energy

Although I don't see it as a calculation, but rather an organic balancing mechanism. But that's just semantics I guess.

(04-15-2021, 12:44 PM)Patrick Wrote: I think it comes from our ability to forgive ourselves. For example, if our intent was to do harm and we do it, we may find it harder to forgive ourselves. But if you do harm without having the intent, then you may find it much easier to bring yourself to forgive yourself.

(04-15-2021, 12:50 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-15-2021, 12:44 PM)Patrick Wrote: I think it comes from our ability to forgive ourselves. For example, if our intent was to do harm and we do it, we may find it harder to forgive ourselves. But if you do harm without having the intent, then you may find it much easier to bring yourself to forgive yourself.

That is one aspect/tool, but not everything requires forgiveness, unless you think it does. We are trying to meet our evolutionary potential, and karma is the expression of that motivating force. So I would say a more generalized view is 'learning', forgiveness can be nested inside that. However the paradigm for 3rd density karma appears to be more specifically centered around forgiveness/acceptance, at higher densities the focus would be different.

(04-15-2021, 12:59 PM)Patrick Wrote: I've been pondering this question quite a lot. Only from the 3d veiled perspective though. Does karma requires forgiveness?

So far it seems that whatever one does to balance karma, excluding forgiveness, it never leaves it dead center. It's always balancing from one side to the other in between entities and the self. It seems that every time you succeed to completely stop the inertia is via forgiveness alone. But the process is not always called forgiveness. It may seem for example that you are meditating and pondering and that you reach a point of being able to let go (of some karma) just by doing this work, or breath work, etc.

All the while it could be said that this process was you forgiving yourself and others. There are many ways of achieving this which we may not intuitively think of as forgiveness.

(04-15-2021, 01:21 PM)Patrick Wrote: It's a chance that we are not aware of all the karma. We would probably shrivel on ourselves in hopelessness.

Spoon-feeding it to us is much more workable.

(04-15-2021, 02:10 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-15-2021, 01:21 PM)Patrick Wrote: It's a chance that we are not aware of all the karma. We would probably shrivel on ourselves in hopelessness.

Spoon-feeding it to us is much more workable.

Well it simply may not be understood, because some aspects are beyond our current level of knowing/learning/awareness.

For instance Ra would have a strong karmic tie to us because of their consequential interactions in Egypt and and later LOO contact. Now they do not require to forgive themselves and accept their actions, they are beyond that, but they would have a higher level learning requirement to understand the greater impacts thereof. Now they might require that the recipients forgive them for their actions, but that is outside themselves, and invisible to the recipients conscious reality, but the higher selves would be aware. So perhaps forgiving the creation for the present circumstances may by virtue fulfill that role, but that is only a fraction of the equation.

Ra 34.4 Wrote:Questioner: Thank you. Would you define karma?

Ra: I am Ra. Our understanding of karma is that which may be called inertia. Those actions which are put into motion will continue using the ways of balancing until such time as the controlling or higher principle which you may liken unto your braking or stopping is invoked. This stoppage of the inertia of action may be called forgiveness. These two concepts are inseparable.

Quote:35.8 Questioner: Well in that case I would like to know the motivation for this use of Abraham Lincoln’s body at that time?

Ra: I am Ra. This shall be the last full query of this session as we find the instrument quite low in vital energies.

The one known as Abraham had an extreme difficulty in many ways and, due to physical, mental, and spiritual pain, was weary of life but without the orientation to self-destruction. In your time, 1853, this entity was contacted in sleep by a fourth-density being. This being was concerned with the battle between the forces of light and the forces of darkness which have been waged in fourth density for many of your years.

This entity accepted the honor/duty of completing the one known as Abraham’s karmic patterns and the one known as Abraham discovered that this entity would attempt those things which the one known as Abraham desired to do but felt it could not. Thus the exchange was made.

The entity, Abraham, was taken to a plane of suspension until the cessation of its physical vehicle much as though we of Ra would arrange with this instrument to remain in the vehicle, come out of the trance state, and function as this instrument, leaving this instrument’s mind and spirit complex in its suspended state.

The planetary energies at this time were at what seemed to this entity to be at a critical point, for that which you know as freedom had gained in acceptance as a possibility among many peoples. This entity saw the work done by those beginning the democratic concept of freedom, as you call it, in danger of being abridged or abrogated by the rising belief and use of the principle of the enslavement of entities. This is a negative concept of a fairly serious nature in your density. This entity, therefore, went forward into what it saw as the battle for the light, for healing of a rupture in the concept of freedom.

This entity did not gain or lose karma by these activities due to its detachment from any outcome. Its attitude throughout was one of service to others, more especially to the downtrodden or enslaved. The polarity of the individual was somewhat, but not severely, lessened by the cumulative feelings and thought-forms which were created due to large numbers of entities leaving the physical plane due to trauma of battle.

May we ask if this is the information you requested or if we may supply any further information?

Quote:23.10 Questioner: Thank you. Then as an overall success, what can you tell me about the relative success of the pyramid in any way at all? I understand that it was— the pyramids for the purpose were basically unsuccessful in that they didn’t produce the rise in consciousness that you’d hoped for, but there must have been some success. Can you tell me of that?

Ra: I am Ra. We ask you to remember that we are of the Brothers and Sisters of Sorrow. When one has been rescued from that sorrow to a vision of the One Creator, then there is no concept of failure.

Our difficulty lay in the honor/responsibility of correcting the distortions of the Law of One which occurred during our attempts to aid these entities. The distortions are seen as responsibilities rather than failures; the few who were inspired to seek, our only reason for the attempt.

Thus, we would perhaps be in the position of paradox in that as one saw an illumination, we were what you call successful, and as others became more sorrowful and confused, we were failures. These are your terms. We persist in seeking to serve.

Quote:12.28 Questioner: Are most of these from the fourth density? What density do they come from?

Ra: I am Ra. Few there are of fourth density. The largest number of Wanderers, as you call them, are of the sixth density. The desire to serve must be distorted towards a great deal of purity of mind and what you may call foolhardiness or bravery, depending upon your distortion complex judgment. The challenge/danger of the Wanderer is that it will forget its mission, become karmically involved, and thus be swept into the maelstrom from which it had incarnated to aid the destruction.

12.29 Questioner: What could one of these entities do to become karmically involved? Could you give us an example?

Ra: I am Ra. An entity which acts in a consciously unloving manner in action with other beings can become karmically involved.

(04-15-2021, 04:56 PM)zedro Wrote: Yeah I have to admit the meaning given by Ra (and traditionally) is alot more narrow, so perhaps I'm misusing the term to go beyond the intended scope. But I feel the utilisation could be expanded to other contexts, albeit with expanded mechanisms and solutions for 'neutralizing' it.

For instance, I use the term to also describe balancing principals between positive and negative interactions/interference in this plane, where if a positive entity gets to help, then a negative gets to have their turn to balance the playing field, and vice versa. Maybe I should use another term so it's more clear with the majority interpretation.

(04-15-2021, 06:29 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:   
Returning to GCS's question at the top of the page, if those of the darker persuasion can roll merrily along up through the middle densities without hitting a karmic wall, does this mean they are very good at forgiving themselves?
  

(04-15-2021, 06:29 PM)Sacred Fool Wrote:   
Returning to GCS's question at the top of the page, if those of the darker persuasion can roll merrily along up through the middle densities without hitting a karmic wall, does this mean they are very good at forgiving themselves?
  

(04-15-2021, 08:32 PM)Patrick Wrote: I think we are allowed to delay it. But positive entities do not find any value in delaying the processing of it. Yet if only the possibility even exists for a such a thing, I can very well imagine negatives to make good use of that.

(04-15-2021, 08:45 PM)zedro Wrote:

(04-15-2021, 08:32 PM)Patrick Wrote: I think we are allowed to delay it. But positive entities do not find any value in delaying the processing of it. Yet if only the possibility even exists for a such a thing, I can very well imagine negatives to make good use of that.

I'm thinking it has to be cleared for entry into 4d positive, at least in the context needed.