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RE: Initiation of the Body - Patrick - 03-25-2012
(03-25-2012, 10:37 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Closure? With regard to what?
And I am unsure how a fascination with NDE has any revelance to my point that far too many people get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such and use the ancient metaphors as their launching pads.
Closure on how and why it is perfectly ok for people to "get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such".
RE: Initiation of the Body - Shin'Ar - 03-25-2012
(03-25-2012, 12:15 PM)Valtor Wrote:(03-25-2012, 10:37 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Closure? With regard to what?
And I am unsure how a fascination with NDE has any revelance to my point that far too many people get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such and use the ancient metaphors as their launching pads.
Closure on how and why it is perfectly ok for people to "get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such".
Not sure what you mean. Closure usually refers to realizing the end of something that has been a bother or trouble to you that can now be cast off so you are relieved of that burden. Do you mean it in some other sense?
If not, than i assume you mean to say that I should for some reason conclude that it is okay for people to focus on such things.
And IMO it wou8ld not really be a problem except for the fact that those who tend to follow those things usually become entangled in extreme aspects of it and tend toward very vulgar and bloodthirsty concepts.
RE: Initiation of the Body - Unbound - 03-25-2012
If I may say something, perhaps room for consideration. I used to be big in to the metal scene where "death, black magic, evil, darkness and such" was heavily used as a source of expression.
Pretty much every individual who gets caught in the extremeness of it (I have friends who self-mutilate, are attracted to pedophilia and all sorts of other things, constantly feeding their own hatred) seems to have a very abusive past in one form or another. These are not bad, evil people, they are very tortured individuals. These individuals have no connection to Love in the same way we do. Many of them do not even believe Love exists.
Yet, I cannot help them simply by opposing who they are. They became rebellious, "outside the norm" and in their manner BECAUSE it is an expression of their feelings of being unacceptable to society. I cannot simply tell them they are 'trapped in darkness', and that they need to walk towards the Light. Not only would they not really understand me, so many of them are attached to these things as a source of PROTECTIVE IDENTITY that they are afraid to step outside of them.
With that in mind, the only way I know how to spread service in love to these individuals is to BE an example of Love. To show them that they do not need to be extreme to be unique or accepted. Teaching, unfortunately, cannot always be done directly and focused like a laser-beam. Sometimes it must be done indirectly so that the individual may take hold of the lessons themselves.
RE: Initiation of the Body - Shin'Ar - 03-25-2012
(03-25-2012, 12:48 PM)TheEternal Wrote: If I may say something, perhaps room for consideration. I used to be big in to the metal scene where "death, black magic, evil, darkness and such" was heavily used as a source of expression.
Pretty much every individual who gets caught in the extremeness of it (I have friends who self-mutilate, are attracted to pedophilia and all sorts of other things, constantly feeding their own hatred) seems to have a very abusive past in one form or another. These are not bad, evil people, they are very tortured individuals. These individuals have no connection to Love in the same way we do. Many of them do not even believe Love exists.
Yet, I cannot help them simply by opposing who they are. They became rebellious, "outside the norm" and in their manner BECAUSE it is an expression of their feelings of being unacceptable to society. I cannot simply tell them they are 'trapped in darkness', and that they need to walk towards the Light. Not only would they not really understand me, so many of them are attached to these things as a source of PROTECTIVE IDENTITY that they are afraid to step outside of them.
With that in mind, the only way I know how to spread service in love to these individuals is to BE an example of Love. To show them that they do not need to be extreme to be unique or accepted. Teaching, unfortunately, cannot always be done directly and focused like a laser-beam. Sometimes it must be done indirectly so that the individual may take hold of the lessons themselves.
I agree with that, so where do you draw the line between that sort of teaching and that which you call being an example of love?
As you said they are often repulsed by displays of love.
How does one show these people that there is another option?
RE: Initiation of the Body - Patrick - 03-25-2012
(03-25-2012, 12:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote:(03-25-2012, 12:15 PM)Valtor Wrote:(03-25-2012, 10:37 AM)ShinAr Wrote: Closure? With regard to what?
And I am unsure how a fascination with NDE has any revelance to my point that far too many people get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such and use the ancient metaphors as their launching pads.
Closure on how and why it is perfectly ok for people to "get focussed on death, black magic, evil, darkness and such".
Not sure what you mean. Closure usually refers to realizing the end of something that has been a bother or trouble to you that can now be cast off so you are relieved of that burden. Do you mean it in some other sense?
You are right, my wording can be seen as condescending. I could have used another wording. Please accept my apologies.
(03-25-2012, 12:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: If not, than i assume you mean to say that I should for some reason conclude that it is okay for people to focus on such things.
I am not saying that you should see it that way. What I am saying is that IMHO part of walking the positive path is realizing (accepting) that it is indeed "okay for people to focus on such things".
(03-25-2012, 12:33 PM)ShinAr Wrote: And IMO it wou8ld not really be a problem except for the fact that those who tend to follow those things usually become entangled in extreme aspects of it and tend toward very vulgar and bloodthirsty concepts.
In our experience here on Earth, it certainly tends this way yes.
(03-25-2012, 01:01 PM)ShinAr Wrote: ...
As you said they are often repulsed by displays of love.
How does one show these people that there is another option?
You just be your Self. If they keep your company while you are being your Self and radiating Love, then it means that they are using these catalysts for polarizing positively. They are looking at this other option and are not feeling repulsed by it.
RE: Initiation of the Body - Unbound - 03-25-2012
Actually, it is false that they are repulsed by displays of love. Many of them are actually individuals who long for understanding companionship, and in their darkest moments it is always as the lament of a distorted perception of love, nearly always as a result of experiences they have had which shattered their trust in the emotion.
In this case, I think it really needs to be considered what a "display of Love" truly is.
Also, I am unsure if you are making the suggestion that only those who are in STO polarity are capable of feeling love towards Other Selves, because I don't believe this to be true. All is Love, but many are very confused by that love and are equally fascinated and repelled by it because of their pain.
And Valtor has more or less given the best example, you show them that there IS someone who cares, there IS someone who loves and won't judge. I have had many people tell me how much they appreciate me because I maintain a bastion of love and positivity, and just my existence alone gives them hope that everything is going to grow in to the Light.
They are seekers looking in the dark, we mustn't whip them from behind, simply give them a gentle call and radiance and attempt to illuminate the walls of the cave, to use a Platonic euphemism.
The greatest fear of these individuals is judgement, of being reprimanded for their self-induced suffering, and they push themselves further and further in to pain and suffering to avoid this judgement. Should the judgement come, they are pleased to be their own executioners.
RE: Initiation of the Body - native - 03-25-2012
(03-24-2012, 11:50 PM)Ankh Wrote: Hey Icaro,
Don't know if this is helpful, but here it is anyway:
Thank you. I'm not a big fan of Q'uo but this topic is starting to make more sense. Once a person dies to the self, and experiences what we could call true life for the first time, this is the beginning of understanding the "body" in its use towards service. An awakened being is no longer simply living life, but now has more specific function. Because when Ra references the body in the tarot, they refer to it as that which will perform the work of the spirit.
So perhaps in understanding the body in each and every way through detachment, they mean learning to serve without developing a strong bias towards outcome. We serve through the body in a more purified way, channeling undistorted light as best as possible. It moves us around and is that which is used to create and teach. The body seems to simply be a communicator then. Going forward, when encountering catalyst we internalize all our understandings and provide the necessary response in a balanced manner. To not do so is misuse of the body. Even when trying to convey a positive message, feeling the need to show others the light or impose your position on another is not balanced as we know. You are channeling more of a dark light. I'm guilty of this, and have been toning it down.
Even-functioning seems to be the goal. We need to learn to be passive radiators as it's said, gently going about our work.
Using Carla as an example for instance because it's well-detailed, it's quite possible that in the incarnation before this one she might have been too imposing. 6d being the density of balance, this may cause her current lifetime to swing to the opposite side of the spectrum in an attempt to "hone in" if you will. This is reflected as a distorted body, seemingly representative of the harsh toll provided by her other self's domination and "abuse". Going along with this idea, previously having an imposing personality, in this incarnation she was required to balance unworthiness. Because previously, her self-worth would have been inflated, having developed the bias that others don't "get it", and thus not being an equal in terms of worthiness (respect).
So to have respect for someone, you need to let others think for themselves. Make offerings, and teach quietly.
Because if thoughts are things, I think the example of the two negative wanderers on Venus is imparting a highly important metaphor. They represent wisdom. In a society without language, the system of communication must have been through some type of mental image transfer or beigness/feeling that is sent. Somehow their specific knowledge's and wisdoms slaughtered others, as if their desire to "correct" others sent out a type of controlling energy. So I'm not sure that they even went around slaughtering anyone. It may just be an allegory for how imposing your will or wisdom on others is representative of domination, control, and most importantly, absorption.
RE: Initiation of the Body - Ankh - 03-26-2012
(03-25-2012, 04:47 PM)Icaro Wrote: Once a person dies to the self, and experiences what we could call true life for the first time, this is the beginning of understanding the "body" in its use towards service. An awakened being is no longer simply living life, but now has more specific function. Because when Ra references the body in the tarot, they refer to it as that which will perform the work of the spirit.
So perhaps in understanding the body in each and every way through detachment, they mean learning to serve without developing a strong bias towards outcome. We serve through the body in a more purified way, channeling undistorted light as best as possible. It moves us around and is that which is used to create and teach.
Maybe this, in regards to detachment, may be of help?
Ra, 47:8 Wrote:The red-ray body is your chemical body. However, it is not the body which you have as clothing in the physical. It is the unconstructed material of the body, the elemental body without form. This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle.
EDIT: They go on in that session talking about all the other bodies. So, perhaps what they've meant by detachment is the detachment to your chemical body so that you can get to know all your other bodies, in order to be able to do the work of the adept/initiate?
RE: Initiation of the Body - native - 03-26-2012
Perhaps..Ra tends to reference the grand scheme of things..not just talking about 3d. What was discussed on page 1 is the overall gist of things I believe.
This last part seems to be another nudge towards Dewey Larson's material, and how it's possibly something that could be of benefit.."This basic unformed material body is important to understand for there are healings which may be carried out by the simple understanding of the elements present in the physical vehicle."
RE: Initiation of the Body - native - 05-05-2012
Forgot about this statement..wanted to add it to the thread.
"The fourth density is one of revealed information. Selves are not hidden to self or other-selves. The imbalances or distortions which are of a destructive nature show, therefore, in more obvious ways, the vehicle of the mind/body/spirit complex thus acting as a teaching resource for self revelation. These illnesses such as cancer are correspondingly very amenable to self-healing once the mechanism of the destructive influence has been grasped by the individual."