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RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-06-2012
Is hope and excitement about what is to unfold not a catalyst? If we think of those who want to exit, thinking life elsewhere is better, we may think of it as escape and avoidance. Yet it may be all possible that it could be a desire to move ahead and be excited about the possibilities for further learning. Yes, in some cases it is an escape for the desire to avoid the purpose for this life. Yet when there is hope and gratitude for the experiences that we are experiencing, in the moment, and a dedication to serving others in our own special way, it could be an expression of joy and excitement about the possibility of holding communion with others in a different way. It's a motivator to "step up" to the challenge.
Those who avoid and want to escape are brave souls who's suffering has lead them into survival mode, perhaps. I have much compassion for them. The alien and exit-scenarios I think are their ways of asking for help because they might not know what to do. Instead of understanding the mechanism of "catalyst" they see it as "punishment" or "being picked on" etc. I think it's our responsibility to honor their choices and send them love/light... and that they find their inner star to guide them to their beautiful awakening
. I have full faith in them.
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 03:07 PM)rie Wrote: Is hope and excitement about what is to unfold not a catalyst?It may be worthwhile to remember that "All that assaults your senses is catalyst."
RE: Is everything subjective? - βαθμιαίος - 10-06-2012
Not only senses. "An individual mind/body/spirit complex may use any catalyst which comes before its notice, be it through the body and its senses or through mentation or through any other more highly developed source, and use this catalyst in its unique way to form an experience unique to it, with its biases."
RE: Is everything subjective? - Cyan - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 03:07 PM)rie Wrote: Those who avoid and want to escape are brave souls who's suffering has lead them into survival mode, perhaps. I have much compassion for them. The alien and exit-scenarios I think are their ways of asking for help because they might not know what to do. Instead of understanding the mechanism of "catalyst" they see it as "punishment" or "being picked on" etc. I think it's our responsibility to honor their choices and send them love/light... and that they find their inner star to guide them to their beautiful awakening
This seems roughly accurate based on having all of the above. The whole "i want to see aliens" "I want an exist" and so on.
Was going to write something else. But noticed that i typoed "i want an exit" to "I want an exist" and decided, that thats all i should say + this explanation +(infinity)
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-06-2012
Is your little "i" ok with your big "I" lol sorry
(10-06-2012, 04:07 PM)βαθμιαίος Wrote: Not only senses. "An individual mind/body/spirit complex may use any catalyst which comes before its notice, be it through the body and its senses or through mentation or through any other more highly developed source, and use this catalyst in its unique way to form an experience unique to it, with its biases."
what is a "highly developed source"?
RE: Is everything subjective? - βαθμιαίος - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 05:07 PM)rie Wrote: what is a "highly developed source"?
Just my opinion, but I'd say intuition, the racial and cosmic minds, and the spirit.
Quote: 30.2 ...Moving further down the tree of mind we see the intuition which is of the nature of the mind more in contact or in tune with the total beingness complex. Moving down to the roots of mind we find the progression of consciousness which gradually turns from the personal to the racial memory, to the cosmic influxes, and thus becomes a direct contactor of that shuttle which we call the spirit complex.
This spirit complex is the channel whereby the in-pourings from all of the various universal, planetary, and personal inpourings may be funneled into the roots of consciousness and whereby consciousness may be funneled to the gateway of intelligent infinity through the balanced intelligent energy of body and mind.
RE: Is everything subjective? - native - 10-06-2012
(10-06-2012, 05:07 PM)rie Wrote: Is your little "i" ok with your big "I" lol sorry
Pervert
RE: Is everything subjective? - TheInfinite1 - 10-06-2012
(09-29-2012, 10:47 PM)Avocado Wrote: Very confuddled on the matter of objectivity and subjectivity.
Yes everything is subjective.
Every situation, object, action, etc... is neutral in its definition. Yet, when you attach an emotional charge/definition/distortion to it then it becomes defined.
Much like fear of something. Imagine fearing the darkness. You label the darkness as something that is scary and thus attach fear to it. Yet, when you replace that fear of the darkness with love then the darkness is no longer scary but enjoyable and accepted.
Another example is when someone "makes" you angry. It is not them making you angry, it is you becoming angry from within towards them.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
(10-06-2012, 09:21 PM)Icaro Wrote:(10-06-2012, 05:07 PM)rie Wrote: Is your little "i" ok with your big "I" lol sorry
Pervert
Thank you for the compliment. Your interpretation lol
Link
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-06-2012, 11:23 PM)TheInfinite1 Wrote: Another example is when someone "makes" you angry. It is not them making you angry, it is you becoming angry from within towards them.It's called a failed projection.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
(10-06-2012, 11:23 PM)TheInfinite1 Wrote: Yes everything is subjective.
Every situation, object, action, etc... is neutral in its definition. Yet, when you attach an emotional charge/definition/distortion to it then it becomes defined.
How would you explain empathy?
How do we define what we experience?
RE: Is everything subjective? - native - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 02:12 AM)rie Wrote: Thank you for the compliment. Your interpretation lol
You're welcome!
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 02:40 AM)rie Wrote: How would you explain empathy?Empathy is a loaded term. It is used to describe various states of relationship, but the available information differs. In most cases, it merely refers to a limited condition where one 'resonates' with another's emotional content thus inducing a similar feeling in oneself.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
Brief tentative hypothesis (with my own distortions included):
Perhaps experience is subjective in the context that we have a narrow scope of "vision" in our current reality (as we are bound by 3D reality). Due to the limitation of the illusion of separation in this 3D world, sharing an experience with another becomes as, if you will, groping around the boundaries in darkness. We are able to use some parts of our body/mind/social complex to understand an experience and come to a consensus. Thus inter & subjective.
We are able to share an experience from a cognitive (conceptual understanding) and affective (emotional understanding) of another's experience through the way in which our meaning-attribution system is constructed. This meaning system is constructed through the social norms, histories, customs, etc., etc., etc. that we share.
But empathy is sometimes enough of an approximate understanding of another person... as some believe it's impossible in this 3D world to get an objective or exact understanding of another. I'm going to understand you the best that I can, while trying to be reflexive about how I came to understand you, and how we influence each other to do/think/feel/be... whatever... in our shared "space".
Have you had an experience where you sit with someone and you look into each others eyes and there is a sense of connectedness with that person? Might not be total understanding but enough for resonance and acceptance? "Time" (psychological time some call) stops.
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 06:22 PM)rie Wrote: Have you had an experience where you sit with someone and you look into each others eyes and there is a sense of connectedness with that person? Might not be total understanding but enough for resonance and acceptance? "Time" (psychological time some call) stops.Yes, but you don't have to look into the eyes and it occurs just as readily with more than two if all of the participants are vibrating blue or higher. Can you believe people pay money to go on retreats where this may be experienced?
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
lol absurdity
perhaps they would manifest some experience with that monetary energy and intent desire for connection? I don't know. With the New Age/New Thought movement's progression, I feel cautious about any retreat promising outcome for exorbitant fees.
The eyes was just my melodramatic plutonian moon energy channeling itself
. You are absolutely right, that doesn't matter.RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 07:25 PM)rie Wrote: lol absurdityI'm not sure about exorbitant fees, but I do feel that it is a 'good' thing to explore, and especially in a group setting where people have validation of the phenomenon. 'Time' seems to stop because in order to appreciate that perception there must be some level of non-duality present. Duality is typically engendered from judgement, so that is suspended as well (at least as a primary faculty of experience). My theory is that interiorities suddenly 'invert' and that previously personal interior/subjective landscape is shared (transpersonally) as if mind itself was shared (it always was but now there is consciousness present).
perhaps they would manifest some experience with that monetary energy and intent desire for connection? I don't know. With the New Age/New Thought movement's progression, I feel cautious about any retreat promising outcome for exorbitant fees.
Andrew Cohen is studying this and believes it's part of the 'next step':
http://www.andrewcohen.org/interview/default.asp
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
Could you expand on your theory more. What do you mean by "interiorities suddenly invert"?
Thank you for the link. Very interesting.
Well, it's a good thing to be in groups but I have uncomfortable senses about them. Pay 2 grand to connect with Lemuria? Hmm.
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 09:56 PM)rie Wrote: Could you expand on your theory more. What do you mean by "interiorities suddenly invert"?
'interiority' meaning your subjective mind (some may say 'soul') that is typically considered isolated with respect to awareness of the processing in other's subjective minds.
'invert' meaning now that same subjective awareness is shared as if it was now somehow exterior or objectively experienced as if you're looking at the same page of a book, except you know it's still a form of subjective awareness.
This intersubjectivity is enabled when the survival-ego is not in control of awareness, and there is a sufficient opening of green and also blue. I guess it's still rare here, especially among strangers, but probably not for long. And further still, if indigo is accessed, there may be thought creation such as healing.
(10-07-2012, 09:56 PM)rie Wrote: Well, it's a good thing to be in groups but I have uncomfortable senses about them. Pay 2 grand to connect with Lemuria? Hmm.There are also groups of 'adepts' these days who are not trying to escape.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-07-2012
Much gratitude to you, Zenmaster, for generously sharing your ideas.
...Societies that had been more "sociocentric"(as supposed to "egocentric") who understand "self" as "self-in-others," (as supposed to separation between me & you), and who had beliefs that all were interconnected (environment, other people, family, ancestors, cosmos, etc.), and who did not distinguish between daily life and spirituality but saw the sacred in everything. Cooperation over competition (although competition is present), interdependence over independence (but independence also present)... Understanding "sickness" as disconnection or disharmony or imbalance of the person to "others." Maybe slow changing (to us) but stable, smaller population centers, agrarian with technology, with some monetary system but mostly barter. ?
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-07-2012
(10-07-2012, 10:54 PM)rie Wrote: ...Societies that had been more "sociocentric"(as supposed to "egocentric") who understand "self" as "self-in-others," (as supposed to separation between me & you), and who had beliefs that all were interconnected (environment, other people, family, ancestors, cosmos, etc.), and who did not distinguish between daily life and spirituality but saw the sacred in everything. Cooperation over competition (although competition is present), interdependence over independence (but independence also present)... Understanding "sickness" as disconnection or disharmony or imbalance of the person to "others." Maybe slow changing (to us) but stable, smaller population centers, agrarian with technology, with some monetary system but mostly barter. ?All of those apprehensions valid and familiar but they are themes over the horizon rather than actual, real experience from applied will in the context of solutions worked out and that whole journey. In my view "interdependence over independence (but independence also present)" means that one has individuated sufficiently to support cooperation free from personal dependencies having to do with "orange/yellow" work.
I would say that even those capable of seeing "self-in-others" may be imbalanced or even pathological. For example, if one becomes convinced that their new apprehension of validity of subjective experience is some kind of idealistic aim or height of achievement, then they may seek to control and to promote their ideology at the expense of the healthier understanding where others may be "at". To the detriment of society, they will tend to project their values onto others incapable of appreciating that context. They will also tend to over-compensate for the pathological conditions of the prior stage of development, thus creating further imbalance. This is known as the "Mean Green Meme" and roughly enters awareness just as the "heart center" is opened (Green in this sense has nothing to do with green ray, however).
http://www.enlightennext.org/magazine/j22/beck.asp?page=4
IMHO, people need to keep moving beyond the distractions invited by this initial stage of development in order to approach any social concern in a more integral manner, rather than an ideological manner.
RE: Is everything subjective? - Cyan - 10-08-2012
(10-07-2012, 10:17 PM)zenmaster Wrote: There are also groups of 'adepts' these days who are not trying to escape.
*arches an eyebrow*
Escape?
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-08-2012
(10-08-2012, 12:12 AM)Cyan Wrote: Escape?Escapism, which is like a distraction. The mind can be like an entertaining narcotic with its owners' potential connection to what may be "spiritual". Seeking the numinous, the magical and the powerful, typically in some transient form, for the sake of creating vibrations and stories about the possibilities and potentials imagined can and will substitute for the actual experience of "going there". You know, DW, C2C A.M., Godlike Productions, Bring4th forums, Above Top Secret, etc. It's safe allegory used to project one's hopes and fears. For the hope, one identifies with it, for the fear, one rejects it. Both are symptoms of distraction and sleep.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-08-2012
Perhaps the term is not appropriate. It's a term used to describe how a person sees others as part of themselves, that I am a part of someone, although a distinction may be made between you and me. It is an actual description (though poor) of a group of people who lived around Polynesia and other pacific islands, and there are some who still live this way. They are, though living in another context from many people in our world so it is hard to describe.
Awesome Link. Thank you. Have to add, there is an authoritative structure in these societies. But I see lots of green memes and the mean green meme in this side of the world I live here.
RE: Is everything subjective? - Peregrinus - 10-08-2012
Only the Buddha Siddhartha released by use of will all desire (Dukkha, Suffering, Catalyst), and from this was able to negate further experience within the octave. Ra referred to the Buddha Siddhartha as the All-being in One.
All experience/catalyst is distraction. As Ra so eloquently put it:
Quote:There is no polarity for all will be, as you would say, reconciled at some point in your dance through the mind/body/spirit complex which you amuse yourself by distorting in various ways at this time. This distortion is not in any case necessary. It is chosen by each of you as an alternative to understanding the complete unity of thought which binds all things.
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-08-2012
(10-08-2012, 11:08 PM)Peregrinus Wrote: All experience/catalyst is distraction.Distraction in the sense of "the sum effect of this gadget is that of distraction and sleep." Not the absurdity of if you're not actualizing being one with everything right now, you're distracted.
RE: Is everything subjective? - Patrick - 10-09-2012
The Buddha Siddhartha may have stopped having fun in this octave, but he is still going to go through catalysts in the next octave. A completely different set of catalyst, experience and fun.
RE: Is everything subjective? - AnthroHeart - 10-09-2012
I'm not sure if I'd want to totally transcend this Octave. So much experience to be had.
But definitely I'm ready for 3D to be over.
RE: Is everything subjective? - reeay - 10-09-2012
Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm learning but my impression is that in 4D reality there is much more intense focus in the moment, the now.... unlike us where we go along some illusionary linear continuum of time (e.g., living in the past, hoping for the future)? Would 4D be more like having opportunities to work with catalysts as they emerge, in the present moment? I thought that's why Buddhism and middle-way paths were so diligent about "being in the present moment" through stillness and silence.
RE: Is everything subjective? - zenmaster - 10-09-2012
(10-09-2012, 05:15 PM)rie Wrote: Maybe I'm misunderstanding what I'm learning but my impression is that in 4D reality there is much more intense focus in the moment, the now..I think the idea is that there is more awareness capable of appreciating the space/time time/space balance which is what gives rise to dualities, rather than an intense focus. Further, I'd imagine there is an increasing understanding of the realm of forms or the noumenal as suggested by Plato, Kant and others.
(10-09-2012, 05:15 PM)rie Wrote: Would 4D be more like having opportunities to work with catalysts as they emerge, in the present moment?"There is very little work in consciousness in fourth and in fifth densities compared to the work done in third density."