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+--- Thread: Poll about cancer "cure" (/showthread.php?tid=5876)
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Tenet Nosce - 11-14-2012
(11-14-2012, 02:30 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Not so fast!It's important to distinguish all of the above in a traumatic, acute, emergency situation from all of the above in a chronic, degenerative disease condition.
I just meant "all of the above" in a general sense. Meaning- in the field of medicine at large, there is a time and a place for everything. Diet, herbs, supplements, drugs, radiation, surgery, acupuncture, homeopathy, aromatherapy, you name it... The challenge is to understand the relative risks and rewards, costs and benefits, as they apply to each unique situation.
In order to accomplish this, we must first acknowledge and respect that every situation is- in fact- unique. Secondly, we must acknowledge and respect the limitations of any single modality. Thus,
The main problem with surgery are the surgeons who think surgery is the best option in all cases.
The main problem with drugs are the medical doctors who think drugs are the best option in all cases.
The main problem with homeopathy are the homeopaths who think homeopathy is the best option in all cases.
The main problem with acupuncture is the acupuncturists who think acupuncture is the best option in all cases.
... and so on and so forth...
Quote:In fact I think that's precisely why people often think alternative methods fail - because they tried to do the alternative route while doing toxic drugs too!
Yes, that is true. But also I would say that many people decide at some point to take the wrong "alternative" approach based on a few testimonials, or the authoritative advice of a single health guru, and then when it doesn't work out, they dismiss the whole of alternative medicine.
Quote:Every day I hear about people who had a much easier time with the chemo - didn't get sick, hair didn't fall out, etc. - when the also drink our medically-certified ionized water at the same time. So I know for a fact that the water helps offset the toxic effects of the chemo.
Well see, there you go. They can work together. The basic idea of chemo is to selectively poison the cancer cells, and hope that the host survives. The newer drugs are aimed at being more selective and reducing the toxic effects to the body at large. Third agents which act to offset the toxic effects of the drug are certainly working in tandem.
Quote:But I also hear of people who already did the chemo/radiation and it failed, and they were given 2 months to live, were literally on their deathbeds, on a feeding tube, dying, left for dead by the medical establishment, and then they started drinking the water, got alkaline, and lo and behold 2 weeks later they're out of bed and 6 months later they are declared cancer-free!
These aren't 1-in-a-thousand stories, but the norm. I hear these stories frequently.
I'm not discounting those stories, but are we also counting the stories of those who drank the water and didn't recover?
Also, the people who recovered also had a change in their attitude which caused them to seek an alternative. When they were "left for dead" by the medical community, they went and looked elsewhere. That- in and of itself- probably greatly increased their chances of recovery over and above the effectiveness of the water.
Similarly, I wonder how many recoveries are attributed to chemo or radiation when it was mostly due to a change in attitude by the patient.
Quote:But, herbal lore says that if anyone has a need, the remedy will be right nearby, growing. We just have to ask the plant devas to direct us to it. (Herbal lore also says that if a weed is growing prolifically in our yard, then someone in the household needs it for medicine.)
Yes, that has always been interesting to me. Even more fascinating is that when we scientifically investigate these herbs, a great many of them in fact turn out to have the benefits that were told to the shamans by the plant spirits!
Quote:His gluttony killed him in the end. He gobbled up a toad, and died.
(This is the same dog who survived the snakebite.)
Aww... well you win some you lose some I guess. Or maybe due to his close interaction with you he became qualified for an upgrade to his vehicle! Who knows- maybe you will get to meet him again one day in human form.
But that is also interesting to me... there are many advantages for an animal to be a human pet. On the other hand, they seem to lose some of that animal instinct toward self-preservation.
Every so often the subject comes up around here about moving to the tropics... and then we think... what will we do with the cats? Can two house cats just be turned loose in an environment like that?
Quote:Yes. Like with minerals; we need most minerals in tiny, trace amounts, and others in large amounts, but if certain minerals are taken in large amounts they become toxic.
Conversely, many toxins taken in very small amounts, can actually improve health!
Quote:Yes, she was a religious nut, but her religion was science. She was such a hardcore atheist that she thought the physical reality was the end-all, and humans were wrong to let such ridiculous things as love and compassion interfere with natural selection.
ROFL! Yes, this is another example of a false dichotomy. The people who are so fanatical and dogmatic about science, that it becomes a religion to them. They might as well be churchies- it's all the same to me.
Quote:I don't feel compassion for the abstract, intangible, yet monstrous medical industry, but I certainly do feel compassion for the individual doctors, nurses, and other workers who are employed by that industry.
Yes. Unfortunately, the average person is unable to make a distinction between these. People don't generally understand the principles of emergent properties. A corporate entity is literally an entity, and can act in its own self interests apart from the individuals that constitute the entity.
Thus we have a health system that creates disease, an educational system that creates ignorance, an economic system that creates poverty, etc. If the system actually worked, it would no longer be necessary!
Quote:It must be very difficult for them, to face the reality of the industry that is their livelihood. They went to school for so many years, worked so hard, and probably had a desire to help people...gosh, such a strong structure of belief that is now being challenged by the holistic community.
Yes, but this is not at all unique to medicine. This type of thing is going on everywhere, in all aspects of society. The notion of centralized control and authoritarianism is being challenged by a greater number than ever before.
But as of yet, this movement is still somewhat lacking in solidarity. People are still very much engaged by infighting and secondary battles.
My belief is that medicine will change when the challengers on "both" sides of the fence (there are really more than two) look within to the authoritarians in their own ranks and remove them from the positions of authority in which they have been placed.
It's like- a truce needs to be called between the "mainstream" and the "alternative" groups so that everybody can focus on weeding out the fanatics, extremists, and authoritarian figureheads within their own communities.
Up until this point, those with authoritarian/extreme views have been given a "free pass" by the masses so long as they are perceived to be on the so-called "right side of the fence" as concerns whatever issue... i.e. "Oh, you are into holistic medicine? Well then it's 'OK' that you are a fanatical extremist authoritarian type."
Quote:I'm not sure what the mechanism is that keeps so many holistic practitioners closed to other products and treatments. You'd think they'd be more open, right? In some cases, yes, but in most cases, no. You are correct that many of them can be just as locked into their paradigm as the allopathic doctors.
You would think.
But no, sadly that is not the case. Same people, different costumes.Quote:It's usually the ones who have a vested interest in their particular line of products, or healing protocol. They just invested $20k in a Rife machine, or $10k in one of those energy testing devices,
Yes. Did you know that we have a "naturopathic college" here that is- according to my understanding- basically a sales outlet for these "quantum machines" than can supposedly read our subtle energy fields?!
Quote:their entire practice built on the premise that it is the best detoxifier and healthy for long-term use...how could they now admit they were wrong?
Exactly! It most definitely is a circular process...
Quote:Come to think of it, now that I just made that list, all based on my own personal experience, I retract my earlier statement that alternative practitioners were generally less closed-minded than their allopathic counterparts. Now that I really think it through, I realize you are probably closer to the truth on that point than I was. Sure, these are all generalizations, but I'm actually finding a hard time thinking of alternative practitioners I've met who were readily receptive to new information.
See- we've all been indoctrinated too!
I know that naturopathic medicine has plenty of authoritarian figures, and yes many of them are in leadership positions.Quote:That might be because who am I? I'm not in their league. I have no credentials, so why would they be open to anything I offer to them?
Could be that, but not necessarily. I wouldn't take it too personally. But yes, I think you are right to the extent that most people misunderstand credentials... including those that have them!
A credential basically means that an individual has demonstrated a certain level of understanding regarding a particular body of information. Since there is no credential available for ionized water, your not having one shouldn't really make a difference. Also, a credential really says nothing about a person's character or relative skill at their trade.
In addition, ionic polarization, free radicals, and acid/base chemistry are confusing concepts that are not easily understood- even by doctors. So in addition to there just being all around confusion and maybe an unwillingness for somebody to admit what they don't know- you have to work against all of the incomplete or false explanations put out by the authoritarian "experts" in the alternative health field!
I don't know about you, but I still have a hard time getting through a college-level text on the topics of ionic polarization, free radicals and acid/base chemistry. And I'm sort of a super-genius.
[Incidentally, you might find this thread on Polarization and Polarity interesting. We are talking about the difference between ionic polarization- such as occurs in water and other crystals- and magnetic polarization that happens in magnets. It is relevant to the Ra material since they talk about both crystal healing and polarization of consciousness.]
Also, it may just be that the interest hasn't been sparked for whatever reason. For example if you sent me a research article about the effects of ionized water on gut ecology, all of a sudden I would get excited about it.
Quote:Maybe they are more open to other practitioners. Still, it shows an 'authoritarian/expert' mentality, just as with the MDs. Despite being in a field that is largely unregulated, with advances being made all the time by people without conventional credentials (or any at all), they have still locked themselves into a box.
We're all in a box. Some of us just don't know we are locked in a box. And some of us think we are free.
RE: Poll about cancer - Monica - 11-14-2012
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I just meant "all of the above" in a general sense. Meaning- in the field of medicine at large, there is a time and a place for everything.
I see your point, and agree with it, but I'm not sure you got mine, which is: I've never met an ND or acupuncturist who would ever attempt to treat the victim of a car accident. But, MDs (who excel at treating accident victims) routinely try to 'treat' those with degenerative diseases, utilizing methods better suited to treating acute trauma.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes, that is true. But also I would say that many people decide at some point to take the wrong "alternative" approach based on a few testimonials, or the authoritative advice of a single health guru, and then when it doesn't work out, they dismiss the whole of alternative medicine.
Indeed. Both are true.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Well see, there you go. They can work together. The basic idea of chemo is to selectively poison the cancer cells, and hope that the host survives. The newer drugs are aimed at being more selective and reducing the toxic effects to the body at large. Third agents which act to offset the toxic effects of the drug are certainly working in tandem.
If 'healing' was defined as simply shrinking the tumor, I'd agree. But my definition of healing is to heal the whole person, not kill the tumor (and, often, the person along with it). The temporary shrinking of the tumor didn't heal the person. They had even more of a mountain to climb afterwards, to get their immune system back. In a high percentage of cases, the cancer recurs. Therefore, I'd conclude that the people who didn't have a recurrence had genuine healing because of improvements in lifestyle after their cancer scare, not because of the chemo itself. At best, the chemo just bought them a bit of time.
Short-term statistics show that chemo has a certain 'cure' rate. But long-term statistics show that those who refuse the chemo, and do nothing at all, outlive those who got chemo!
Thus, I would have to disagree in the case of chemo. I don't believe chemo cures anything at all, but people who get chemo managed to heal despite the chemo, not because of it.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I'm not discounting those stories, but are we also counting the stories of those who drank the water and didn't recover?
I don't know of any.
Let me qualify that.
Of course, there are plenty of cases of people who waited until the last minute - when they were down to 2 days to live - and then expected a few glasses of the water to get them off their deathbeds, and it was just simply too late. Some got off their deathbeds, or off kidney dialysis, and went home a few days later. Others died. But let's be reasonable: No treatment would work in every single case of someone with 2 days to live.
So obviously I'm not claiming that every single person with 2 days to live will magically heal with a few glasses of water. That would be absurd.
What I'm referring to when I say "I've never seen any" is people who got started a little earlier than that, and followed the protocol. I've never seen a single person, who followed the protocol, not get some sort of dramatic healing results.
Does that mean every imbalance in their body was fixed? No, of course not...because many of the imbalances probably had to do with diet, lifestyle, emotions, attitude, etc. I don't claim 100% balance in my whole body after drinking the water. Our bodies are 75% water...we still have to address the other 25% too! + emotional, karmic, spiritual, etc.
However, I can honestly say that, in 100% of the cases I have observed, provided they followed the protocol, they got some sort of dramatic, noticeable, tangible improvement in their health. I have not yet met a single person who didn't.
I don't know of anything else that can boast such a claim.
This is without making any other changes. I have a friend who had already done chemo and radiation, and they failed. He was given 2-3 months to live, was on a feeding tube, etc. He started drinking the water - lots of it according to protocol - and 6 months later was declared cancer-free. I have copies of his biopsy reports. This guy eats a horrendous diet! Hamburgers, etc. But he makes up for it with his brilliant, loving, compassionate spirit and constant state of joy. He is so grateful that "God gave him the water so he could live and help others" he could probably eat nails and still thrive!
But, keep in mind that his exuberant attitude came after he was healed by the water! His attitude didn't help when he was getting chemo.
I meet people like that...who have awful diets but the water alone just heals them. But others need to address diet and lifestyle too, to get complete healing. The amount of healing varies. But what doesn't vary is that they all notice dramatic improvement, regardless of whether they do other things or not. Those who do other things, like improve diet and exercise, might get even better results, sure, but they all get some sort of dramatic results, independent of what else they do.
To be clear: I'm not claiming that this water produces 100% healing in every disease in every case. I'm simply saying that in 100% of the cases I have observed, they got dramatic improvement in multiple areas, upon drinking this water according to protocol. If they made other changes too, usually that came later.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also, the people who recovered also had a change in their attitude which caused them to seek an alternative. When they were "left for dead" by the medical community, they went and looked elsewhere. That- in and of itself- probably greatly increased their chances of recovery over and above the effectiveness of the water.
Respectfully, I don't think you understand what I'm trying to convey about what we see happen with this water. It's really difficult, because of the magnitude of it. Sure, attitude is a factor, but many of these people had already sought other alternative treatments. I am one of those people! I've been pursuing alternative therapies for 30 years...in a constant quest to improve my health. I bought my machine as a cancer preventative. We didn't have dvds with amazing testimonials back then, so no one told me what to expect. I seriously didn't expect to feel anything.
Then of course there are the many children, dogs, cats and horses who get dramatic results too! Like my elderly dog (you've heard the story) who could barely walk because of arthritis, and was totally blind and deaf. He was near death and I was agonizing about putting him down. After 2 weeks, he woke us up at 6am, running around like a puppy! 6 months later, his eyes were brown again and he could see and play fetch! He lived almost 4 more years and never again showed any sign of pain.
Now that the water has become much more popular, there might be an expectation of healing which could affect one's results. But 5 years ago, when I first got started, that had nothing to do with it.
Placebo can never be completely ruled out with adult humans, but there's no placebo in the case of animals. And, if it were placebo, then why didn't those other treatments work? Why didn't my friend heal when he got the chemo? Why didn't the myriad things I tried, work for me? I tried so many things, each time with high hopes of healing my ailments, and they failed. Then, I tried the water, NOT expecting it to fix anything, and it fixed many things!
And I see this happen a lot. People continue to surprise me with the things they report, as improving with this water...things they totally didn't expect.
It all goes back to the function of water, which is to remove acidic waste and metabolic waste. This water just does a better job of it! It does a better job of doing what water is supposed to do! So all organs and systems improve. It's simple chemistry.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Similarly, I wonder how many recoveries are attributed to chemo or radiation when it was mostly due to a change in attitude by the patient.
Again respectfully, I'd say no, it's not similar. In the case of chemo, it's a known poison, designed not to heal, but to kill. I contend that the patient's positive attitude is the factor that causes them to live, while others who get chemo die. So yes indeed, their attitude healed them, not the chemo.
But in the case of the water, most people really don't have much expectation. They just don't get it...it's just water! Most of the time, we tell them "just drink it and let me know what happens" and then they call, all excited and totally surprised at what they're experiencing. We can't tell them it will heal them, because we don't want to get in trouble with the FDA. We never even say the things I'm saying here! The only reason I'm saying as much as I am, is because I'm being generic. But when I am dealing with a real person, out in the open, I am much less forthcoming. So rather than the hype causing a placebo, it's the opposite: this water is actually quite under-hyped, compared to the reality of what we see.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes, that has always been interesting to me. Even more fascinating is that when we scientifically investigate these herbs, a great many of them in fact turn out to have the benefits that were told to the shamans by the plant spirits!
Yes, ain't it cool!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Aww... well you win some you lose some I guess. Or maybe due to his close interaction with you he became qualified for an upgrade to his vehicle! Who knows- maybe you will get to meet him again one day in human form.
Haha, yeah maybe! Or maybe he is back as one of my other dogs or cats...
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But that is also interesting to me... there are many advantages for an animal to be a human pet. On the other hand, they seem to lose some of that animal instinct toward self-preservation.
Very true! A couple of days ago, one of my outdoor kitties got chased up a tree by some dogs. I had to climb a ladder and coax him down! He still wouldn't climb down! My husband finally had to hold up a board so he could jump down onto a platform because he couldn't figure out how to climb down! Silly kitty.
(In all fairness, he is very old, and was pretty freaked out after being chased by Rotts!)
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Every so often the subject comes up around here about moving to the tropics... and then we think... what will we do with the cats? Can two house cats just be turned loose in an environment like that?
Why would you need to? Why couldn't you still keep them in the house?
I know what you mean though...we've had a similar conversation about "what if the s*** hits the fan? Could we let out our cats and trust that they could catch a few mice now and then?" No...probably not!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Conversely, many toxins taken in very small amounts, can actually improve health!
Yes, and homeopathy takes that concept to the ultimate conclusion.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: ROFL! Yes, this is another example of a false dichotomy. The people who are so fanatical and dogmatic about science, that it becomes a religion to them. They might as well be churchies- it's all the same to me.
Yup!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes. Unfortunately, the average person is unable to make a distinction between these. People don't generally understand the principles of emergent properties. A corporate entity is literally an entity, and can act in its own self interests apart from the individuals that constitute the entity.
Thus we have a health system that creates disease, an educational system that creates ignorance, an economic system that creates poverty, etc. If the system actually worked, it would no longer be necessary!
Yup!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes, but this is not at all unique to medicine. This type of thing is going on everywhere, in all aspects of society. The notion of centralized control and authoritarianism is being challenged by a greater number than ever before.
True.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But as of yet, this movement is still somewhat lacking in solidarity. People are still very much engaged by infighting and secondary battles.
My belief is that medicine will change when the challengers on "both" sides of the fence (there are really more than two) look within to the authoritarians in their own ranks and remove them from the positions of authority in which they have been placed.
It's like- a truce needs to be called between the "mainstream" and the "alternative" groups so that everybody can focus on weeding out the fanatics, extremists, and authoritarian figureheads within their own communities.
Do you think it'll ever happen? Or will we just all go our separate ways when the sorting begins? Maybe those who still want the old system can have it, on that other 3D planet.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Up until this point, those with authoritarian/extreme views have been given a "free pass" by the masses so long as they are perceived to be on the so-called "right side of the fence" as concerns whatever issue... i.e. "Oh, you are into holistic medicine? Well then it's 'OK' that you are a fanatical extremist authoritarian type."
Haha, so true!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes. Did you know that we have a "naturopathic college" here that is- according to my understanding- basically a sales outlet for these "quantum machines" than can supposedly read our subtle energy fields?!
No, but I'm not surprised.
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: See- we've all been indoctrinated too!...I know that naturopathic medicine has plenty of authoritarian figures, and yes many of them are in leadership positions.
Same with the raw vegan community. (We've had that conversation before!) I almost want to barf when I read some of the stuff from Patenaude or Wolfe...yet I keep getting their newsletters, sifting thru the garbage to find some priceless gems of info.
Patenaude's latest was to attack seaweed...seaweed!!! What audacity! I shouldn't have been surprised...this is the same guy who said to never eat onions or garlic, and to eat mono-meals (like, only 12 bananas at a meal). Yikes!
I pick on Patenaude and Wolfe because both have written negative stuff about ionized water...which I find irresponsible, because they clearly don't know what they're talking about. Just like Mercola, they reviewed something they obviously didn't know much about, and just regurgitated the garbage off the internet (which originally came from the quackwatch folks...what does that tell you?) Oh the irony! The absurdity!
They should know that not all their fans are 100% raw vegan! Many are wannabes! So maybe a 100% raw vegan who has a natural spring in his back yard doesn't need ionized water...but it's reprehensible to turn people away from something that could help them, given where they're at. These gurus have the attitude of "do it exactly like I do" without taking into consideration that not everyone is where they are at. And the fans happily follow them without questioning...
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Could be that, but not necessarily. I wouldn't take it too personally. But yes, I think you are right to the extent that most people misunderstand credentials... including those that have them!
A credential basically means that an individual has demonstrated a certain level of understanding regarding a particular body of information. Since there is no credential available for ionized water, your not having one shouldn't really make a difference. Also, a credential really says nothing about a person's character or relative skill at their trade.
In addition, ionic polarization, free radicals, and acid/base chemistry are confusing concepts that are not easily understood- even by doctors. So in addition to there just being all around confusion and maybe an unwillingness for somebody to admit what they don't know- you have to work against all of the incomplete or false explanations put out by the authoritarian "experts" in the alternative health field!
Yes, very true. I think I told you this before, but a couple of years ago I offered to give water to a local ND...I was astounded at his lack of knowledge! I knew more than he did about many things...basic things, not just the water! Dang, maybe I should open an office...
(just kidding) But he had credentials and I didn't.(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I don't know about you, but I still have a hard time getting through a college-level text on the topics of ionic polarization, free radicals and acid/base chemistry.
I haven't tried to do that. I took biology instead of chemistry in school, so I am at a disadvantage. Case in point: Like how you pointed out some errors in those books I sent you, which I never would have known about.
I know my product works, and I know enough of the basic to do demonstrations in front of large audiences and answer their questions satisfactorily, even when there's an MD in the audience. (I actually have fun with those, but I choose my words carefully.) So I do ok most of the time. It's just the stickler for chemistry detail like you that I have a hard time with!
But that's ok...you keep me on my toes!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: And I'm sort of a super-genius.
Here's some wind up your skirt
You sure did fill in the missing piece for me on protein! My mind is still blown on that one! Thanks again! I will be forever grateful! (Nice to have a genius friend around, ain't it?)Now if only you would come on board with the water...:-/ Just think of the possibilities! You could help me get educated in those areas of chemistry that I am deficient in...we would make a dynamite team!
(I'm only half joking!
)(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: [Incidentally, you might find this thread on Polarization and Polarity interesting. We are talking about the difference between ionic polarization- such as occurs in water and other crystals- and magnetic polarization that happens in magnets. It is relevant to the Ra material since they talk about both crystal healing and polarization of consciousness.]
I saw that, but declined to participate because you and Pickle were talking over my head!
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also, it may just be that the interest hasn't been sparked for whatever reason. For example if you sent me a research article about the effects of ionized water on gut ecology, all of a sudden I would get excited about it.
What! Those 'before and after' colonoscopies by the inventor of the colonoscopic snare procedure just didn't do it for you?
(11-14-2012, 07:38 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: We're all in a box. Some of us just don't know we are locked in a box. And some of us think we are free.
When illusion spin her net
I'm never where I want to be
And liberty she pirouette
When I think that I am free
Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see
No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me
Note: Post has been edited and material added.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Tenet Nosce - 11-15-2012
(11-14-2012, 11:09 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: I've never met an ND or acupuncturist who would ever attempt to treat the victim of a car accident. But, MDs (who excel at treating accident victims) routinely try to 'treat' those with degenerative diseases, utilizing methods better suited to treating acute trauma.
Got it!
Quote:Short-term statistics show that chemo has a certain 'cure' rate. But long-term statistics show that those who refuse the chemo, and do nothing at all, outlive those who got chemo!
I didn't know there were actual statistics on that... do you know the source for that?
Quote:What I'm referring to when I say "I've never seen any" is people who got started a little earlier than that, and followed the protocol. I've never seen a single person, who followed the protocol, not get some sort of dramatic healing results.
So you are saying, in every case excepting those last minute deals, the cancer disappeared? What kind/stage of cancer are we talking about? And how many cases?
Quote:However, I can honestly say that, in 100% of the cases I have observed, provided they followed the protocol, they got some sort of dramatic, noticeable, tangible improvement in their health. I have not yet met a single person who didn't.
What percentage of the cases you have observed actually follow the protocol?
Quote:I don't know of anything else that can boast such a claim.
That's a pretty remarkable claim!
Quote:And I see this happen a lot. People continue to surprise me with the things they report, as improving with this water...things they totally didn't expect.
What about people who generally feel fine? Do they report improvements as well?
Quote:It all goes back to the function of water, which is to remove acidic waste and metabolic waste. This water just does a better job of it! It does a better job of doing what water is supposed to do! So all organs and systems improve. It's simple chemistry.
But pH and ORP aren't that simple to understand! Also- since the water is ionized wouldn't it make a difference how hard the tap water is going into the ionizer?
Quote:Why would you need to? Why couldn't you still keep them in the house?
I guess it's possible, but the houses tend to have more of an open format. It just seems like it would feel even worse not to let them out and explore. They were pretty much confined to the house this whole summer because in the previous one they got fleas, and also our lady kitty got herself... umm... "roughed up" out late one night.
Quote:Do you think it'll ever happen? Or will we just all go our separate ways when the sorting begins? Maybe those who still want the old system can have it, on that other 3D planet.
I guess we'll see! I've still got my fingers crossed for some type of super-sweet mass-consciousness-raising event to happen in the next five weeks. But I'm not holding my breath...
Quote:(which originally came from the quackwatch folks...what does that tell you?)
Heh. One time I actually wrote the quackwatch dude... basically saying the same thing we have been talking about here. I said... hey dude I get it that there are a lot of quacks in the alternative medical field... but um... what about the quacks and charlatans in your own field? Shouldn't you start there?
Quote:So maybe a 100% raw vegan who has a natural spring in his back yard doesn't need ionized water...but it's reprehensible to turn people away from something that could help them, given where they're at.
Do you think it is possible to live a long, healthy life without ionized water? Also, I wonder... if the body itself sort of functions as an ionizer when everything is working properly. Have you ever tested the ORP of urine?
Quote:These gurus have the attitude of "do it exactly like I do" without taking into consideration that not everyone is where they are at. And the fans happily follow them without questioning...
Yes, and when the promised result doesn't happen, it is almost invariably because they didn't follow the protocol exactly enough. I mean- I get why we have protocols but so many of them are just silly and near impossible for anybody to follow exactly.
Quote:but a couple of years ago I offered to give water to a local ND...I was astounded at his lack of knowledge!
Um... yes well I will just say that I had quite a few classmates I wouldn't send my worst enemy to! (If I actually had a "worst enemy".) One time I recall we took nearly three full class periods to discuss how to calculate blood pressure because of a small cadre of individuals that "weren't good at math." Hint: You multiply three numbers together.
Quote:I haven't tried to do that. I took biology instead of chemistry in school, so I am at a disadvantage. Case in point: Like how you pointed out some errors in those books I sent you, which I never would have known about.
Oh but you're a smart gal, I'm sure you could understand at least a tenth grade chemistry text. Then you will sound super snappy in your presentations!
Quote:It's just the stickler for chemistry detail like you that I have a hard time with!
But that's ok...you keep me on my toes!
I just came across this article... I didn't make it all the way through without my brain hurting the first time, but it looks rather thorough!
http://www.health-science-spirit.com/highorp.html
Quote:Here's some wind up your skirt. You sure did fill in the missing piece for me on protein! My mind is still blown on that one! Thanks again! I will be forever grateful! (Nice to have a genius friend around, ain't it?)
Uh-oh I feel my ego growing so huge it is about to explode!
But seriously, it was a great exercise for me to get better at explaining. And also- you trusted me enough to at least consider what I was trying to say.Quote:Now if only you would come on board with the water... Just think of the possibilities! You could help me get educated in those areas of chemistry that I am deficient in...we would make a dynamite team!
(I'm only half joking!
LOL... I know I'm a hard nut to crack. But it's only because I had to sort through so much nonsense floating around the naturopathic community during my educational process. (Remember Johnny, the fruitarian?
)I'm more sold on the benefits of low ORP than high pH when it comes to water. But even then, you would still have to convince me why one brand of ionized water is better than another, pH and ORP otherwise being the same.
I'm just a tough sell, in general. I've often wondered why market research companies don't pay good money to study what motivates people like me to buy. Probably, they get a better ROI learning how to herd the sheeple.
Quote:I saw that, but declined to participate because you and Pickle were talking over my head!
Oh, you are more than capable of understanding what I am talking about. And besides, being an ionized water buff AND a student of the Ra Material, it would give you a double benefit!
I know that I was really confused about some things regarding polarization of consciousness until I went back and reviewed the difference between ionic and magnetic polarization.
Quote:What! Those 'before and after' colonoscopies by the inventor of the colonoscopic snare procedure just didn't do it for you?
Nope- gut bacteria! Although, it might be possible that the majority of the water is absorbed before it gets very far into the digestive tract...
Quote:When illusion spin her net
I'm never where I want to be
And liberty she pirouette
When I think that I am free
Watched by empty silhouettes
Who close their eyes but still can see
No one taught them etiquette
I will show another me [/i]
You can keep your things, they've come to take me home.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I didn't know there were actual statistics on that... do you know the source for that?
I've seen it in multiple places, but they might have been second-hand. I'll see if I can find the original stats. I'm pretty sure Mercola has covered this.
Here's one, for starters:
Most Cancer Patients Die of Chemotherapy
And this:
http://www.thedoctorwithin.com/cancer/to-the-cancer-patient/
Quote:Dr Abel did a comprehensive review and analysis of every major study and clinical trial of chemotherapy ever done...it is unlikely that anyone in the world knows more about chemotherapy than he.
...the results are astounding: Abel found that the overall worldwide success rate of chemotherapy was “appalling” because there was simply no scientific evidence available anywhere that chemotherapy can “extend in any appreciable way the lives of patients suffering from the most common organic cancers.”
Abel emphasizes that chemotherapy rarely can improve the quality of life. He describes chemotherapy as “a scientific wasteland” and states that at least 80 percent of chemotherapy administered throughout the world is worthless, and is akin to the “emperor’s new clothes” – neither doctor nor patient is willing to give up on chemotherapy even though there is no scientific evidence that it works! – Lancet 10 Aug 91 [35]
No mainstream media even mentioned this comprehensive study: it was totally buried.
Similar are the conclusions of most medical researchers who actually try to work their way past the smoke and mirrors to get to the real statistics. In evaluating a therapeutic regimen, the only thing that really matters is death rate – will a treatment significantly extend a patient’s life? Not life as a vegetable, but the natural healthy independent lifespan of a human being...If a dying patient’s condition changes even for a week or a month, especially if the tumor shrinks temporarily, the patient is listed as having “responded to” chemotherapy. No joke! The fact that the tumor comes back stronger soon after chemo is stopped, is not figured into the equation. The fact that the patient has to endure horrific side effects in order to temporarily shrink the tumor is not considered. That fact that the patient soon dies is not figured into the equation. The idea is to sell, sell, and sell. Sell chemotherapy.
Also in the media we find the loud successes chemotherapy has had on certain rare types of cancer, like childhood leukemia, and Hodgkin’s lymphoma. But for the vast majority of cancer cases, chemo is a failure. Worse yet, a toxic one.
Even with Hodgkins, one of chemo’s much-trumpeted triumphs, the cure is frequently a success, but the patient dies. He just doesn’t die of Hodgkins disease, that’s all. In the 1994 Journal of the National Cancer Institute, [38] they published a 47-year study of more than 10,000 patients with Hodgkins lymphoma, who were treated with chemotherapy. Even though there was success with the Hodgkins itself, these patients encountered an incidence of leukemia that was six times the normal rate. This is a very common type of reported success within the cancer industry – again, the life of the patient is not taken into account.
http://www.whale.to/cancer/german_mag.html
Chemo Does Not Cure: Often It Inflicts Damage and Spreads Cancer
Well I still didn't find the original stats - sorry - but I keep finding more interesting stuff! This next one is encouraging, about a subtle paradigm shift occurring in the allopathic world:
More doctors and patients are starting to view cancer as a chronic illness-something to be treated, not cured
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Quote:What I'm referring to when I say "I've never seen any" is people who got started a little earlier than that, and followed the protocol. I've never seen a single person, who followed the protocol, not get some sort of dramatic healing results.
So you are saying, in every case excepting those last minute deals, the cancer disappeared? What kind/stage of cancer are we talking about? And how many cases?
If you re-read my statement, you'll see that I wasn't referring to the 'curing' of any disease. To clarify:
This water does a better job of doing what water is supposed to do: remove metabolic waste. If metabolic waste if more efficiently removed from the cells, then all the organs and systems will naturally function better. If the organs and systems are functioning better, what happens? Symptoms start to be alleviated.
My statement was that 100% of the people who followed the protocol got dramatic benefits. I stand by that. Now, what does dramatic benefits mean?
I'll give some examples. These are all people I know/knew personally.
J was on 7 different meds: diabetes, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, sleeping pills, anti-depressants, and pain meds. She was nearly bedridden from pain - fibromyalgia and arthritis. After 2 weeks of the water, she woke up pain-free and got off 6 of the 7 meds. 2 months later the last one - the diabetes med - was making her sick, so she got off that too. Her energy was through the roof, even though she didn't change her diet. She didn't exercise. But she lost 25 lbs during those 2 months.
I already told you B's story - advanced stage 4 throat cancer - had already done chemo and radiation, was left to die. He was declared cancer-free 6 months after starting the water. It's been 2 years now and he's doing great.
J (a different J) got diagnosed with an aggressive breast cancer. She got a machine and after 3 weeks of the water, the tumor had shrunk considerably. But she went ahead with the scheduled chemo. She slacked a bit on the water, thinking she'd had it licked. A year later she went on vacation for 3 weeks, not drinking much water and it not being fresh - and soon after that discovered she now had ovarian and uterine cancer as well. Stage 4. The doc told her some other treatment would work after the first one failed. She fired her oncologist and went raw vegan, bought a juicer, drastically increased her water intake, and could literally feel the tumors shrinking. She is doing fabulous!
My niece, R, was schizophrenic and had been hearing voices all her life. 3 days of drinking the water, the voices stopped. She got a job and was doing great. But, a year later she got fired and it threw her into a tailspin. She took a handful of Tylenol and was near death. Her only hope was a liver transplant. I told my brother to smuggle in some water to her. The next day her liver counts 'miraculously' returned to near-normal.
J (the first J) was giving water to a lady with heart cancer. The lady couldn't get out of bed, she was so sick. Stage 4. 2 weeks of drinking the water, she got out of bed, feeling great, and went shopping. But, she already had some experimental treatment scheduled, so she told her doctor about the water and the doc told her not to drink it, but to do the treatment instead. She did. She died.
Unfortunately, I've had several like that. They were getting promising results - tumors shrinking rapidly - but then told the doctor and the doc told them to quit drinking the water and do the treatment instead. Which blows my mind...why should they quit drinking water? It's just nuts! In those cases, when they quit the water and did the chemo, most of them died. They made their choice.
We had another lady - forgot her name - stage 4 - was doing great...tumors shrinking, energy returning. She had already done chemo previously and it had failed. Her family was thrilled that she was getting great results with the water. But, she decided she couldn't live without her Dr. Pepper, so she quit the water in favor of her beloved sodas. (the water won't work if the person drinks sodas.) She died.
M had already had breast cancer previously. It returned with a vengeance, stage 4 very aggressive. Doc told her she must have surgery and chemo immediately. She put if off a month and bought a machine. She also went raw vegan and did juicing. She went back a month later and there was no trace of the cancer.
K showed up using a walker. She had MS. By the 3rd time she came for a refill, she came without her walker.
B was in a wheelchair, awaiting knew replacement surgery in both knees. 10 days of drinking the water, she woke up pain free and got out of her wheelchair. She never got the surgery.
I think I told you the story of Dr. P, who'd lost cognitive function after surgery for a brain aneurysm. 2 weeks of the water, knee pain and arthritis disappeared, he got his libido back, and...he (quote) "got his brain back"!
And of course my own story...which I think I've told you.
O's migraines disappeared...G's dandruff disappeared and he got half his hair color back...everyone with acid reflux got relief...constipation always goes...bleeding gums stop bleeding...it's totally routine for people to get off their blood pressure meds...and I always know that whenever I meet anyone with fibromyalgia, I will make a sale, because they always get pain relief and don't want to go back to being in pain. (I give them water first, if they are local...so they can try it...never any pressure to buy anything.)
P was born with a colon disorder and has been constipated her entire life. She's now in her mid-30s. Her 'normal' elimination pattern was 1 bowel movement every 1-2 weeks. (Can you imagine! poor dear!) The first week on the water, she felt nauseous. The 2nd week, she called me, ecstatic - she was pooping every day for the first time in her life! The 3rd week, she called me, freaking out that she was pooping too much! She was having a movement 3 times a day! I laughed and told her she was doing great!
These are just a small sampling of my own friends, family and customers. They're not all cancer stories, but I wanted to show you a sampling of the types of conditions I routinely see resolved. I have dozens more stories like that, in my personal sphere of influence...I can't even keep track anymore. Many feel the water saved their life. Many more feel it saved their quality of life.
I have met others at conventions, who told their stories of stage 4 cancer, brain tumors, autism, you name it. There's a clinic working with autistic kids...they're still autistic, but after 10 days of this water and some supplements and therapies, they're talking in sentences and their behavior is vastly improved. One lady I know whose teenage son couldn't be left alone for even a minute and couldn't go to the bathroom by himself, is now functioning, dressing himself, etc. Water only, no clinic, no supplements.
Yes, I know: All natural supplements have similar testimonials. They're all over-hyped, right? Here's the difference: Only some of the people drinking the latest berry juice drink get results. Whereas virtually all the people who drink this water get some kind of tangible benefit. Why? because not everyone is deficient in the nutrients found in berry juice! But everyone needs efficient hydration. That is the difference. It's simple chemistry. That is why: I haven't met a single person who didn't notice some sort of dramatic results. Does that mean every cancer patient got healed? No. Most of them turn to us when it's too late and they have only 2 days to live. Most of those don't make it. Even so, some do! One of my NDs had a guy on kidney dialysis, given 2 days to live. The family smuggled in the water. 2 days later he got out of ICU, and a couple of days after that he went home. He's still alive, last I heard. But most who are that advanced don't make it. They need to catch it a bit sooner...maybe a few weeks to live instead of 2 days!
I know an ND who had hundreds of advanced stage cancer patients recover. He already had been getting some good results, but his success rate skyrocketed when he added the water to the protocol. I know it's true because I met some of them. The local oncologist started sending his incurables to him, and many healed.
Remember J? She is local to me. A local MD's wife's breast cancer shrunk after drinking the water, so the doc started sending his incurables to J. Another MD also sends people to J. J isn't a practitioner. She just gives them the water.
So, to be clear: The water doesn't cure anything. It has no nutrients, except absorbable minerals. It just does a better job of doing what water does. The body is what does the healing. It just has a better chance of healing itself if it's better hydrated and toxins are being flushed out of the cells.
I never, ever tell anyone that this water will cure them! Especially cancer patients! I just tell them it has anti-cancer properties and would be an excellent foundation to an alternative healing protocol, should they decide to pursue that. If they're open to it, I always suggest that they do some reflection to see if maybe they have some unresolved anger issues.
And just for the record, I never ever ever attempt to 'treat' anyone myself. I'm not a doctor! I always suggest that they seek the advice of the practitioner of their choice. I offer generic info pertaining to the water only.
No amount of water, juicing, or whatever will magically cure a person if they haven't used the catalyst.
I read somewhere (Bernardo maybe?) that anger manifests in the body as acidity. It was an Aha! moment! Makes perfect sense!
That led to my theorizing that ionized water, and the ionized water found in fresh fruits and veggies, and probably other nutrients found in fresh fruits and veggies, help to resolve/neutralize anger as they alkalize the body.
Anger is often depicted as red. Those who can see auras say an angry person will have a lot of red in their aura. On the pH scale, acid is yellow, stronger acid is orange, extremely acid is red.
Neutral is green, alkaline is blue, and very alkaline is purple. Our water tests at violet purple. Coincidence?
The water doesn't cure anything. It's just the foundation. Those who are ready to resolve their anger and utilize the catalyst just might be led to this water, along with other things, because they are ready for it.
That's not to say they can't be healed without it. Of course they can! There are many ways to heal! This water just helps make it much more efficient. Also, most people won't change their diets. It's a lot easier to change their water. Then, what often happens is that they start improving their diets too, after being encouraged by the water. Not always. I am forever telling people to not depend solely on the water, but to be responsible and improve the other areas too. I tell them it's asking for trouble to assume that just because they drink the water, they don't have to exercise or eat well. That's probably the biggest challenge: for some people, they get such great results that they think they don't have to do anything else. It can go either way.
Quote:However, I can honestly say that, in 100% of the cases I have observed, provided they followed the protocol, they got some sort of dramatic, noticeable, tangible improvement in their health. I have not yet met a single person who didn't.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: What percentage of the cases you have observed actually follow the protocol?
I've never tracked the numbers, but I'd say at least half follow the protocol and do quite well. Among those who don't, the main issue is they don't want to give up their sodas. It really depends on how badly they want to get better. (And before you suggest that giving up sodas is what did it, please know that many weren't soda drinkers...I am one of those...I haven't had a soda in 30 years.) Once they get results, most then buy their own machine and then get even better results once they get the water fresh.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: What about people who generally feel fine? Do they report improvements as well?
Yes, they report that they are sleeping better, have more energy, and better digestion. They don't need Tums anymore. Skin looks better. In teens, acne clears up.
But most of the people I deal with are sick people. Oh, and athletes. They have more stamina, less muscle fatigue, no more cramps, that kind of thing.
I've heard some amazing stories about race horses.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But pH and ORP aren't that simple to understand!
What I mean by 'simple chemistry' is that everyone's body need water, and that water must be absorbed for it to do its job. No one can say "that water wouldn't do anything for me" because, regardless of other differences like genetics, metabolism, nutritional needs and deficiencies, etc., everyone needs water.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also- since the water is ionized wouldn't it make a difference how hard the tap water is going into the ionizer?
Yes, which is why the ORP values can vary a bit. The pH won't vary much, though, as long as there is at least 3 grains of hardness (which pretty much all areas in the US have). Soft water areas can add minerals if needed (not needed in the US). Water softeners usually can adjust the minerals.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I guess it's possible, but the houses tend to have more of an open format. It just seems like it would feel even worse not to let them out and explore.
Ah, I see!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: They were pretty much confined to the house this whole summer because in the previous one they got fleas, and also our lady kitty got herself... umm... "roughed up" out late one night.
Oops!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I guess we'll see! I've still got my fingers crossed for some type of super-sweet mass-consciousness-raising event to happen in the next five weeks. But I'm not holding my breath...
Same here!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Heh. One time I actually wrote the quackwatch dude... basically saying the same thing we have been talking about here. I said... hey dude I get it that there are a lot of quacks in the alternative medical field... but um... what about the quacks and charlatans in your own field? Shouldn't you start there?
That sounds like something I would do! Oh wait! have done!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Do you think it is possible to live a long, healthy life without ionized water?
Of course! For many people, depending on their genetics, etc. For some people, maybe not. We had a plumbing problem and had to rely on day-old water for a couple of weeks. I started having just a touch of acid reflux again...horrors! First time that's happened since I got my machine!
For me personally, I would never want to be without my machine. I know my constitution and weaknesses. Unless I moved to Costa Rica and was living on wild, raw fruits and veggies all day long without any stress, maybe...
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Also, I wonder... if the body itself sort of functions as an ionizer when everything is working properly.
What would be more accurate is that the water inside fruits and veggies is ionized water. That's why high-fruit raw vegans probably don't need this machine. But for most of us, here's the bottom line: We already try to eat the best foods and take the best supplements. Why drink acidic, oxidizing, pentagonal water when we could be drinking alkaline, antioxidant, hexagonal water?
That's like asking: "why eat canned peas when you can have peas fresh from the garden?"
Sure, some people live their entire lives, healthy and vibrant, eating canned peas! But then, how many people do you know who are truly healthy and vibrant, and don't have a ticking time bomb (cancer) in their body they don't know about?
With 1 in 3 people getting diagnosed with cancer (and that's not counting all the ones who never got diagnosed), and the rampant toxins in our environment, it just doesn't make sense to drink dead water when we can drink electrically charged, antioxidant water.
I can say this because I know from experience how powerful this water is. But to most people, these words are meaningless. It's like saying "eat your fruits and veggies, and exercise!" It means nothing to them, until they get sick.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Have you ever tested the ORP of urine?
Now that is a very odd question. No, that has never entered my mind! Why would I want to? But ok, just for fun, I'll do it and report back to you!
I do test my urine pH regularly.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes, and when the promised result doesn't happen, it is almost invariably because they didn't follow the protocol exactly enough. I mean- I get why we have protocols but so many of them are just silly and near impossible for anybody to follow exactly.
True. But the water protocol is very simple. Drink enough of it, and no sodas. 'Enough' is 1/2 ounce per lb. of body weight for a healthy person, and 1 ounce per lb. of body weight for a sick person. Hugely obese people won't reach that, so they just do the best they can. A simple rule of thumb is: Small people 1 gallon per day, large or overweight people 1.5 gallon per day. And drink a pint first thing in the morning before eating or drinking anything else.
That's it. Not anything complicated.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Oh but you're a smart gal, I'm sure you could understand at least a tenth grade chemistry text. Then you will sound super snappy in your presentations!
What a novel idea! Gosh, I think I will! Thank you!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I just came across this article... I didn't make it all the way through without my brain hurting the first time, but it looks rather thorough!
It's 2:20 am so I'll have to save that for tomorrow!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Uh-oh I feel my ego growing so huge it is about to explode!
Careful now! Don't let it depolarize you! haha
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But seriously, it was a great exercise for me to get better at explaining. And also- you trusted me enough to at least consider what I was trying to say.
Sure! I usually do consider what others say.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: LOL... I know I'm a hard nut to crack. But it's only because I had to sort through so much nonsense floating around the naturopathic community during my educational process. (Remember Johnny, the fruitarian?
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I'm more sold on the benefits of low ORP than high pH when it comes to water.
You are correct. Adding baking soda or coral calcium will raise the pH about a point - yielding about 8.5 if you start with 7.6 purified tap water. Not high enough to do much good, considering the pH chart is a logarithmic scale.
pH is important, but the ORP is what neutralizes free radicals. (Did I mention I got most of my hair color back and fertility returned?)
But wait! It gets even better! Actually, there is a 3rd property that is even more important...or, let's just say it's the key to the other 2. And that is the microclustering. And there is more to that, even. Our machine produces nanoparticles. That's as far as I can go with this line of thought.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But even then, you would still have to convince me why one brand of ionized water is better than another, pH and ORP otherwise being the same.
ORP and pH are worthless if they aren't transported efficiently into the cells. It is the microclustering that gets those properties into the cells. The medically-certified machine has higher wattage and increased surface area, resulting in microclustering of about 80%, as compared to competitors which only have about 20% microclustering, if at all. Some brands don't even mention microclustering at all, or try to downplay it (because they know they don't have it).
We had a lady whose knee pain went away, blood pressure dropped, and she reduced her meds. Then she bought our top competitor. She came back 3 months later, saying her problems all came back and even got worse. She then bought our machine. Happens all the time! The microclustering is that elusive quality that's more difficult to measure outside a lab, but we believe it's why we have people getting off their deathbeds and out of wheelchairs, and they don't.
Competitors typically don't use surgical-grade components, and leach toxic heavy metals into the water once their flimsy mesh plates corrode. And they don't have ISO medical certification or hospital certification...for good reason.
There's lots more...but I would have to continue that part privately.
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: I'm just a tough sell, in general.
Sell? Who said anything about selling? We're just having a conversation, haha!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Oh, you are more than capable of understanding what I am talking about. And besides, being an ionized water buff AND a student of the Ra Material, it would give you a double benefit!
Aw shucks, well since you put it that way! I guess I'll have to check it out!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Nope- gut bacteria! Although, it might be possible that the majority of the water is absorbed before it gets very far into the digestive tract...
Did you watch the videos I sent you? The MD explains that most of the water doesn't even reach the stomach, much less the gut.
Like the realtors say: location, location, location.
Regarding gut bacteria: terrain, terrain, terrain!
(11-15-2012, 02:19 AM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: You can keep your things, they've come to take me home.
Bonus points if you tell me you knew those lyrics before looking them up! Are you a lunatic???
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - neutral333 - 11-15-2012
And we have broken the record for elaborate posts!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Tenet Nosce - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 04:35 AM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Well I still didn't find the original stats - sorry - but I keep finding more interesting stuff! This next one is encouraging, about a subtle paradigm shift occurring in the allopathic world:
More doctors and patients are starting to view cancer as a chronic illness-something to be treated, not cured
Thanks for the info! Yes- I think we will all be much better off once we start framing cancer for what it is- a process that occurs in the body, not something we "catch" like pneumonia, or some totally random thing which just "happens" to us.
Chances are, we all have a few cells that turn cancerous every day. It's how the body handles them that counts. That's why it is probably incorrect to speak of cancer "cures" from any angle.
Quote:These are just a small sampling of my own friends, family and customers. They're not all cancer stories, but I wanted to show you a sampling of the types of conditions I routinely see resolved. I have dozens more stories like that, in my personal sphere of influence...I can't even keep track anymore. Many feel the water saved their life. Many more feel it saved their quality of life.
Quote:So, to be clear: The water doesn't cure anything. It has no nutrients, except absorbable minerals. It just does a better job of doing what water does. The body is what does the healing. It just has a better chance of healing itself if it's better hydrated and toxins are being flushed out of the cells.
Got it!
Quote:Among those who don't, the main issue is they don't want to give up their sodas.
Those damn things! They're MUCH worse than cigarettes! (But we've already discussed this.)
Quote:Unless I moved to Costa Rica and was living on wild, raw fruits and veggies all day long without any stress, maybe...
That can be arranged! Plus, you could even bring your machine if you wanted to!
Which sort of reminds me... how come there aren't ionized water outlets where people can bring receptacles and get them filled for a fee? I'm thinking of all those "Water n' Ice" stores around Arizona where you can fill up your water jugs with R/O water. Could be a great way to introduce people to the water without them having to buy a machine, and to make it more accessible to those who can't afford one of their own.
Quote:What would be more accurate is that the water inside fruits and veggies is ionized water. That's why high-fruit raw vegans probably don't need this machine.
Ahh... right that does make sense.
Quote:It's like saying "eat your fruits and veggies, and exercise!"
Yes... and even lamestream MDs say this... but yet people want their pills.... and don't want to give up their precious soda pops and hamburgers.Quote:Now that is a very odd question. No, that has never entered my mind! Why would I want to? But ok, just for fun, I'll do it and report back to you!
Just curious... lemme know what you find! Also... what do you recommend for an ORP meter?
Quote:Careful now! Don't let it depolarize you! haha
LOL... luckily a magnet, unlike a crystal, does not tend to lose its polarization once acquired!
Quote:You are correct. Adding baking soda or coral calcium will raise the pH about a point - yielding about 8.5 if you start with 7.6 purified tap water. Not high enough to do much good, considering the pH chart is a logarithmic scale.
That's one of the reasons I sort of
at the whole pH thing. Not that it's totally wrong... although many people give very distorted explanations of it. The thing is that it doesn't really add anything new to the mix, other than confusion.The way to "alkalinize" the body is to eat foods with an abundance of minerals. So basically, eat a lot of vegetables and some fruit. Nothing really new there.
Quote:And that is the microclustering. And there is more to that, even. Our machine produces nanoparticles.
How is that measured?
Quote:Did you watch the videos I sent you? The MD explains that most of the water doesn't even reach the stomach, much less the gut.
No, not yet. Just got back from Costa Rica and catching up...
Quote:Bonus points if you tell me you knew those lyrics before looking them up! Are you a lunatic???
Yes! Why you didn't ask? Because a few years back some friends of mine got Secret World on DVD and it was on repeat for about a week!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - zenmaster - 11-15-2012
Where in CR TN?
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Thanks for the info! Yes- I think we will all be much better off once we start framing cancer for what it is- a process that occurs in the body, not something we "catch" like pneumonia, or some totally random thing which just "happens" to us.
Chances are, we all have a few cells that turn cancerous every day. It's how the body handles them that counts.
Exactly!!! I really like Dr. Bernardo's attitude towards it...he says to be grateful that one's body is doing its job! Cancer is just a response, trying to tell the person that something needs attention.
But it's been twisted into a monster that strikes randomly. It needn't be a death sentence! So many people were seemingly fine...living their lives, active, enjoying life...then went in for a routine mammogram...6 months later they're dead. One can only wonder how many of those people would still be alive, had they not gone looking for cancer!
A Chinese doctor once told me: "Don't go looking for problems. If you body has a problem, it will let you know! And if it does let you know, you need to pay attention!"
I chose to accept that adage as truth.
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Quote:These are just a small sampling of my own friends, family and customers.
Here are a few more:
G, in his 80s, had a massive tumor in his back. He bought the machine so he could use the water in his herbal heart tonic formula. (He did, and his customers commented about how much better it was! asked him if he was doing something different...) The very first week, the tumor started 'draining' and shrunk about 25%. His wife woke up happy for the first time in 15 years. She had been on antidepressants all that time. After a few days of the water, she quit her meds. Unfortunately, she never could get her husband to drink enough of the water. He was a workaholic and just drank coffee all day. This is also a good example of how people can be locked into their paradigm. His herbal tonic has stopped a heart attack in its tracks previously, so he thought he didn't need to address the underlying problem; all he needed to do was just keep a bottle of the tonic handy at all times! But the herbal tonic didn't help the next time. His wife was very frustrated that he was so stubborn and wouldn't drink much water, despite getting such amazing results with the tumor. I mean, who wouldn't keep drinking it if the tumor was shrinking, right? (shakes head)
D's husband sells health insurance, so she has always had the very best medical care and meds. She'd been on meds for 15 years, but still had arthritis and fibromyalgia pain. She could barely open and close her hands, and spent most of her weekend in bed. I loaned them our low-end machine and she got partial pain relief. She was thrilled! Then they bought the top machine and she got total pain relief. She said she could actually feel the pain leaving her body as she drank the water!
Lots of overweight people say the weight just drops off when they drink the water, but that didn't happen for me. (I developed some metabolism issues after being sick so many years...but you already know about that.)
I recently got this email from someone in Africa:
Quote:Dear Monica,
How are you doing? Before i got home my had already started giving the water to some elderly people in my area. There have been good response and very impressive comments. we are monitoring this for a about three months and would then start distributiing the water to some patients as planned in the small hospitals.
An old lady said: ''My son where from this amazing water. I am living without my pills( for pain relieve for the past one month). I get up in the morning as if I am 20 years younger. This is a miracle from God!''
Regards,
K
The next day, I got this from another person, whose daughter was getting great results with cancer:
Quote:Oh, yes it helped! Thank you so so so much! You're the best. I'm sure there are many people, besides J & I, who believe they owe their lives to you. I'm so glad you're the one who called me back when I made that first inquiry on the internet. You ARE the gift that keeps on giving!!
C
I'm NOT posting these as any sort of ego trip! I don't get the credit! I'm just showing that these are very REAL people! This is common...I get these all the time. It's not me; it's the water!
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Those damn things! They're MUCH worse than cigarettes! (But we've already discussed this.)
Yeah, if it weren't for the damn sodas, our success rate would skyrocket. I continue to have my mind blown at how many people I meet who are sick and in pain, but won't give up the sodas. This indicates just how addictive they are!
I no longer loan machines out unless they commit to giving up soda.
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: That can be arranged! Plus, you could even bring your machine if you wanted to!
What, are you going to gift me some property?? Why thank you so much!!! That's mighty generous of you!
Hell yeah I'd take my machine!
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Which sort of reminds me... how come there aren't ionized water outlets where people can bring receptacles and get them filled for a fee? I'm thinking of all those "Water n' Ice" stores around Arizona where you can fill up your water jugs with R/O water. Could be a great way to introduce people to the water without them having to buy a machine, and to make it more accessible to those who can't afford one of their own.
There are many such outlets scattered across the country and in other countries too. J and B, 2 of my friends who bought machines for me, both have water stores.
Other brands don't do that. They rely on us to give away the water, then try to snatch up the sales afterwards. We do it because we know people will get results. (Though the water has lost most of its ORP by the next day, and their results will be much better once they are getting it fresh from their own machine.)
We don't bottle the water, though, because it needs to be drunk fresh. Whole Foods now carries a couple of brands of alkaline water, but they test positive ORP (oxidizing). Also, the pH is 10 times more acidic than the water fresh from the machine. Unless you get lucky and buy a bottle the day after it was bottled! Still, it's good to know if one is traveling and must buy bottled water.
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:
Yup! Did you see that cartoon of the doc telling the patient to change his diet, exercise, and come back in 3 weeks? The look on the patient's face!
Most people want a quick fix. It's all about whether they are ready to take some responsibility for this particular catalyst. It takes work to heal a major disease going the alternative route. Even with the water, there are still emotional issues that can bubble up, that need to be addressed. Whenever I deal with very sick people, I always tell them to be aware that they might even feel worse before they feel better...they might have emotional as well as physical detox. But the good news is that the water seems to help bring all that to the surface and wash it away.
Since emotions are stored in the cells, it makes sense!
Many years ago, I got some herbs from a Chinese doctor. I could literally feel sadness being washed out of my lungs, and anger out of the liver. I know you are aware that Chinese medicine associates certain emotions with certain organs. It was uncanny, how obvious it was at the time.
I've seen this happen with the water too. People tend to have old issues bubble up...it's remarkable to behold!
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: what do you recommend for an ORP meter?
I have 3 different brands but like this one the best:
http://www.eseasongear.com/mismorpme.html
This site has the best price too, last I checked.
Note: You do NOT need to buy any of the solutions! Those are for testing positive ORP. You do need to condition the probe, but not like that. When/if you get one, let me know and I will tell you some important tips on how to use it for negative ORP.
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: LOL... luckily a magnet, unlike a crystal, does not tend to lose its polarization once acquired!
But remember those 2 STO Wanderers who tried to control the community and woke up 'disconcerted' that they had graduated STS? They switched polarity and didn't even realize it! (NOT saying you are in any danger of that!!!)
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: That's one of the reasons I sort of
Yes, there is a lot of confusing info out there. Many mistakenly say that high pH = negative ORP. Not true. The bottled alkaline waters typically test at around 8.5 (blue with pH drops) but once I got one that tested purple! (9.5) It was the same brand that normally tested blue. It was, apparently, just a newer bottle. (See that's the problem with buying bottled alkaline water...not to mention the price! It would be many many times more expensive than buying one's own machine, in the long run...even in the short term!)
But this water, though alkaline, tested positive ORP. One can add baking soda or coral calcium, or even Celtic seasalt, and raise the pH about a point. (Though you have to add a lot of salt! too salty to drink. And baking soda and salt both add sodium.) Baking soda and salt will still yield a positive ORP, showing that the ORP is independent of the pH. Coral calcium will yield a negative ORP, depending on the kind of water you put it in, but only about -80, tops. Which is ok, and will do in a pinch, like when traveling! If I were to travel but couldn't take my machine, I would take coral calcium with me to put in the water. In fact, I gave my hubby some coral sachets to take with him on the plane, since he had no choice but to drink bottled water on the plane.
To put that number in perspective, green tea tests at about -80 also. But our water, fresh from the machine, is anywhere from -400 to -1000, with -600 to -800 being the most common. So it is roughly 10 times the antioxidant power of green tea!
(That's not counting the microclustering factor. Just talking about ORP right now.)
I did a test, to see just how oxidizing our water would get over time. I ran some water and tested with both pH drops (violet) and pH meter (10.25 when run slowly at the 9.5 setting). ORP was -780. I put this water in a dark bottle and capped it.
The next day, as expected, the ORP had dropped to -200, and the pH had dropped to 9.75. The day after that, the ORP had dropped to neutral (right around 0), and the pH stayed steady. On day 4, the ORP had dropped to +100 (slightly oxidizing) and pH still stayed steady.
(Note: When I say "dropped" I meant a decrease in antioxidant quality. But viewed numerically, a decrease in antioxidant is actually an increase in numerical value. Ie. what actually happened was -780 rose to -200, rose to +100...so mathematically I guess I should say rose instead of dropped. Depends on how you want to look at it.)
I continued to test it every now and then for the next year! Even a year later, the ORP was still at +100! This alone was huge! Because bottled waters are typically at least +250, and often +350 or even higher. Tap water is typically anywhere from 350+ to 600+ yikes! Filtered tap water in my area drops the ORP about 100 points, indicating that some of that oxidizing effect is from the chlorine.
So, even though we recommend drinking the water fresh from the machine for optimal results, it was good to know that our water never got anywhere near as oxidizing as other waters, even after a year! (Which is another key feature of the medically-certified machine...stability of the water...something that isn't shown on those youtube tests.)
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: The way to "alkalinize" the body is to eat foods with an abundance of minerals. So basically, eat a lot of vegetables and some fruit. Nothing really new there.
True, assuming the person has an abundance of minerals. I'd been a vegetarian for many years, and was doing a lot of juicing (concentrated alkalizing!) yet was still very acidic. I couldn't figure out why! I mean, dangerously acidic! After almost dying and almost losing my teeth, I finally figured out that the distilled water was leaching my minerals. I was an extreme case, though.
What happens a lot is that people might be doing all the right things with their alkalizing diet, but unless they are drinking 3 quarts of green juice per day (which some do! and are healed), chances are they aren't getting the results they should be, because they didn't take water into consideration. Just a good, basic, high-fruit-and-veggie diet might be fine for maintenance, but if they are drinking acidic, oxidizing water, they're kinda taking 1 step forward, 1 step back. They might still be acidic. It's so much easier to get alkaline when we add alkaline water to the equation.
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: How is that measured?
If I knew that, I'd be rich! Because I could prove why our water is better than the competitors, and would no longer hear people whining that they bought xyz machine and didn't get the same results.
We can get a bit of an idea, with the teabag demo, but it doesn't measure. They do it in a lab in Japan. I have no idea how. Probably proprietary. I just know it has to do with voltage and surface area. The cheap knockoff machines lack both. So they produce pH and ORP just fine, but lack that elusive 3rd property, which WE know is there because we experience it!
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: No, not yet. Just got back from Costa Rica and catching up...
Really? Oh and I just mentioned Costa Rica, and I had no idea!!
Do watch the videos. There is some good technical info in all 3 of them. The part about the water absorbing in the esophagus is pretty mind-blowing!
(11-15-2012, 12:54 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes! Why you didn't ask? Because a few years back some friends of mine got Secret World on DVD and it was on repeat for about a week!
Oh so you have great taste in music TOO??? Gosh, Tenet, now I'm really impressed! (watch that ego!!! haha)
SWL is absolutely one of the greatest masterpieces ever recorded, as far as live shows go. Tangent: Are you a lunatic? Have you kept up with his other stuff? Brilliant, all! But that's a whole 'nother conversation!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Tenet Nosce - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 01:43 PM)zenmaster Wrote: Where in CR TN?
Southeastern coast, in Limon province. Gorgeous place... one of the driest (or should I say least wet) places in the country. Low propensity for hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, etc. Plus we like east coast beaches better as once the afternoon hits, the sun is already going behind the trees and providing some shade rather than frying one's brains all afternoon like on the west coast.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 03:14 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Southeastern coast, in Limon province. Gorgeous place... one of the driest (or should I say least wet) places in the country. Low propensity for hurricanes, earthquakes, tsunamis, volcanoes, etc. Plus we like east coast beaches better as once the afternoon hits, the sun is already going behind the trees and providing some shade rather than frying one's brains all afternoon like on the west coast.
Are you planning to move there? I know a lot of people in the raw foods community are flocking there. But what I don't get is how regular folk can do it...how do they make a living? Doesn't one have to be independently wealthy to pull that off?
Another property of the water: Active hydrogen. I may have sent you some info on that. The hydrogen atom is split off from the H2O molecule. You can see the white gas swirling in the water when you first get it from the machine.
Hydrogen is flammable. Our water ignites! I can hold a lighter in the water stream and hear pop pop pop as the hydrogen bubbles ignite!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Tenet Nosce - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 02:54 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Yeah, if it weren't for the damn sodas, our success rate would skyrocket. I continue to have my mind blown at how many people I meet who are sick and in pain, but won't give up the sodas. This indicates just how addictive they are!
What about coffee? It's very high in antioxidants!
Quote:What, are you going to gift me some property?? Why thank you so much!!! That's mighty generous of you!
LOL... don't have any (yet). BUT... you can rent a pretty decent place for about $200 a month. Also, homes start at about $30K for something most Americans would consider acceptable. Nothing fancy, of course.
Quote:There are many such outlets scattered across the country and in other countries too. J and B, 2 of my friends who bought machines for me, both have water stores.
Any in Michigan?
Quote:It takes work to heal a major disease going the alternative route. Even with the water, there are still emotional issues that can bubble up, that need to be addressed. Whenever I deal with very sick people, I always tell them to be aware that they might even feel worse before they feel better...they might have emotional as well as physical detox. But the good news is that the water seems to help bring all that to the surface and wash it away.
Yeah... every now and again I have to cut a client loose because they seem unwilling to do the inner work, and place too much expectation on the outer stuff. Recently had a woman with a somewhat mortifying history ranging from sexual abuse to her sister being murdered.
Besides the gut stuff, she has a really bad problem with thick mucus, especially in her lungs. She wanted to know what she should "take for it". I recommended NAC but specifically said that the mucus could be related to unresolved emotions from her traumatic experiences.
Long story short, she ends up taking a trip, then comes home and notices that her symptoms got worse again when she returned. Asked me about dust, mold, allergens, etc. I say- sure it would be a good idea to give the house a thorough cleaning... which she proceeds to do without using any sort of protection for her respiratory system. Granted, I forgot to specifically mention using a mask... but really?
So anyway she triggers an asthma attack, and ends up in the hospital for a treatment. Also she decides while all of this is going on to put herself on a "low-carb diet"... pretty much ignoring the dietary recommendations I gave her.
But despite all of this, she managed to convince herself that it was the NAC giving her problems, due to "something she read on the Internet" which, by the way, she wouldn't give me the link to when I specifically asked for it.
So finally she decides to cancel her follow up appointment, because she is "concerned" about the NAC, and plus all of a sudden she thinks she is spending too much money on supplements. Mind you, the primary reason she came in was for gut issues, which were improving.
My take is... she started the healing process and some very uncomfortable catalyst came up for clearing and it freaked her out. But what am I to do? I don't have the inclination to chase these people around. Besides, what can I really do besides, "wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well."
Quote:But remember those 2 STO Wanderers who tried to control the community and woke up 'disconcerted' that they had graduated STS? They switched polarity and didn't even realize it! (NOT saying you are in any danger of that!!!)
Yes that's true, but, "The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases." That's some pretty serious stuff there! I wonder what possessed them to think that "domination unto the physical death" was an appropriate way to deal with other-selves...
Quote:True, assuming the person has an abundance of minerals. I'd been a vegetarian for many years, and was doing a lot of juicing (concentrated alkalizing!) yet was still very acidic. I couldn't figure out why! I mean, dangerously acidic! After almost dying and almost losing my teeth, I finally figured out that the distilled water was leaching my minerals. I was an extreme case, though.
Yeah, I remember that story. Glad you made it out alive! But if I recall, you were going buck wild with the distilled water, no? We still use our distiller, but add the minerals back into it. I can't drink plain distilled water anyway, it makes me thirsty!
Plus I must confess I only drink about six cups of water a day, in contrast to the eight that I should be drinking. But I do have about 4 cups of coffee in the morning... that sort of counts (but not really).
Anyway... so far I haven't noticed any deterioration in our health status. No dramatic improvements, either. But we don't have any chronic conditions to speak of.
Quote:Really? Oh and I just mentioned Costa Rica, and I had no idea!!
:idea:
Quote:Oh so you have great taste in music TOO??? Gosh, Tenet, now I'm really impressed!
Oh, but even more than that, I play music! Actually covered "Shakin' the Tree" with a bluegrass band some years ago for a New Year's gig!
Quote:(watch that ego!!! haha)
Oh I'm sure the demons of depolarization are dancing with delight!
Quote:Tangent: Are you a lunatic? Have you kept up with his other stuff? Brilliant, all! But that's a whole 'nother conversation!
No, I haven't. But I should check it out!
(11-15-2012, 03:26 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Are you planning to move there?
Maybe. I started exploring South/Central America as bugout zones for if/when the s*** hits the fan in the U.S. So far, nothing has turned out as bad as I thought it was going to be...
But still Costa Rica is an all around great place. Besides the obvious tropical paradise environment, they have a stable democratic government. Some aspects I think are even superior to our own with respect to how they address the balance of power. No army. And crime is pretty low. Of course, they still have crime but it tends not to be as violent. Mostly robberies and stuff like that. But violent crime does exist there.
Quote:I know a lot of people in the raw foods community are flocking there.
Hopefully, just the cool ones and not the fanatical extremist types.
Quote:But what I don't get is how regular folk can do it...how do they make a living? Doesn't one have to be independently wealthy to pull that off?
Well, the ideal situation is to be able to make money in the U.S. remotely while in Costa Rica. That is assuming, of course, that our monetary system doesn't completely collapse. For example, our recruitment business only requires the Internet and telephone... well actually with VoIP only the Internet. And the telecommunications infrastructure is excellent in Costa Rica.
Still there are plenty of ways to make money down there. It all depends on what sort of "standard of living" one finds acceptable. A resourceful person could go down with $5K and easily make that last a year or more while they figure something else out.
$30K in a local bank account basically gets you a temporary resident visa. Otherwise, foreigners need to leave the country every 90 days. People usually take a short trip to Nicaragua or Panama... buses are cheap.
$200K will get permanent resident status, if you can demonstrate that you are using the money to "invest" within the country. I use that in quotes because the gov't will consider a $200K home as an "investment." But personally, I wouldn't show up in some Tico town broadcasting to the neighborhood that I had that kind of cash.
Americans can even get citizenship without having to give up their U.S. citizenship, but that is a long road.
There are also all manner of "communities" popping up where people can buy lots, build a modest home, and have some shared resources for food, etc. About $50K to buy into one of these. But personally, I am leery of "communities" since there is no way to weed out the orange/blue vMeme types without being accused of "elitism" by the green vMeme types.
One other consideration is that you can't really buy property and let it sit unattended for months and years. Costa Rican law is much more friendly to squatters than they are here. On the other hand, you can probably hire a property manager for $50-100 a month.
Bottom line- people go down there and make it work all the time... with much less skills and resources than you or I.
(11-15-2012, 03:26 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote: Another property of the water: Active hydrogen. I may have sent you some info on that. The hydrogen atom is split off from the H2O molecule. You can see the white gas swirling in the water when you first get it from the machine.
Hydrogen is flammable. Our water ignites! I can hold a lighter in the water stream and hear pop pop pop as the hydrogen bubbles ignite!
Wait... what?! But hydrogen ions are what make a liquid acidic!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 11-15-2012
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: What about coffee? It's very high in antioxidants!
I dunno. I'm not a coffee drinker so I've actually never tested it. I do know there are some popular 'antioxidant' coffee products available these days, which claim to be healthier than regular coffee, which has a lot of tannins, I think it was.
I just know that coffee, in moderation, doesn't interfere with the water, provided they drink a pint of water first thing in the morning and don't drink so much coffee that it displaces the water.
Coffee drinkers report spending only half as much on coffee, because they use only have the coffee beans to get the same strength, when the brew it with this water. And, it supposedly tastes better...less bitter.
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: LOL... don't have any (yet).
Aw...
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: BUT... you can rent a pretty decent place for about $200 a month. Also, homes start at about $30K for something most Americans would consider acceptable. Nothing fancy, of course.
Good to know! We're pretty rooted where we are, but...good to know.
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Any in Michigan?
I just did a search and didn't find any. But I'm sure there are distributors. I'll see what I can do. We help each other out! I recently gave water for 2 months to a lady who had leukemia, fibromyalgia, and all sorts of other disorders...very very sick. She was in a lot of pain. I gave her water on behalf of another distributor out of state. She got great results and then bought the machine from him, as expected. I knew all along there was nothing in it for me, but I treated her the same as I would have any of my own. We help each other out. (Of course, not all distributors have good ethics...but most of us do.)
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yeah... every now and again I have to cut a client loose because they seem unwilling to do the inner work, and place too much expectation on the outer stuff....
So finally she decides to cancel her follow up appointment, because she is "concerned" about the NAC, and plus all of a sudden she thinks she is spending too much money on supplements. Mind you, the primary reason she came in was for gut issues, which were improving.
My take is... she started the healing process and some very uncomfortable catalyst came up for clearing and it freaked her out. But what am I to do? I don't have the inclination to chase these people around. Besides, what can I really do besides, "wish them love, light, peace, joy, and bid them well."
I can so totally commiserate!!! I often have to remind people that nothing is added to this water. There's nothing in it that could make them sick. So if they are experiencing discomfort, it's something that was already in their bodies that got stirred up.
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yes that's true, but, "The technique of control over others and domination unto the physical death was used in both cases." That's some pretty serious stuff there! I wonder what possessed them to think that "domination unto the physical death" was an appropriate way to deal with other-selves...
Yeah, right? I got the impression from Ra that that was an extreme, rare case.
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Yeah, I remember that story. Glad you made it out alive!
I almost didn't. Which reminds me of another example of authoritarian alternative practitioners. The Reams practitioner who told me being dependent on enemas and colonics for the rest of my life was "better than being toxic" - keeping in mind I was the ripe old age of 22, and my only complaint was sinus headaches and PMS! - also told me to drink distilled water for the rest of my life.
Doing all that colon cleansing undoubtedly weakened my system and made me susceptible to getting depleted later. After I got off the colon cleansing, I did ok for about 5 years...while drinking basic filtered water. Then I got a distiller, and it was a couple of years after that, that I started having problems. I still can't believe how stupid I was, to not make the connection!
I was so locked into the belief that "distilled water was the best because it's the cleanest" as taught to me by her, that I just never really considered that my problems were either caused or, at the very least, exacerbated by it. I suffered for over a decade! Trying all sorts of things, before realizing that the distilled water was leaching my minerals. This, despite a few people trying to tell me. (Though, keep in mind we didn't have internet back then.)(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: But if I recall, you were going buck wild with the distilled water, no? We still use our distiller, but add the minerals back into it. I can't drink plain distilled water anyway, it makes me thirsty!
I did drink a lot...about a gallon per day. I thought I was doing something healthy! But yes, the more I drank, the more thirsty I got! (That should have been a clue!) My mouth was perpetually dry.
After a few years, I did pay attention to those who said it leached minerals, so I thought I was really smart by adding ionic minerals back in. I figured, "I'll start with the cleanest, purest water then add minerals back in, so I'm covered."
Wrong. It didn't help!
Maybe you're getting away with it because you have a strong constitution, and aren't drinking that much, and have been adding minerals back in all along. Maybe if I had added minerals back in from the beginning I wouldn't have had problems. Maybe if I hadn't done all that colon cleansing I would have been ok with it. Who knows? I just know that when I got off the distilled water, I at least quit sliding downhill. I still didn't get better though, because, remember, I bought a competitor machine first...had it for 2 1/2 years...never noticed anything with it one way or the other. But at least it had to have been better than the distilled water. It didn't halt other problems though...I still developed the sharp pain, my dog went blind and deaf and developed arthritis...those things happened while we were drinking the water from the brand that is supposed to be "just as good." That's how I know they're not!
Then I got my present machine, and the rest is history!
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Plus I must confess I only drink about six cups of water a day, in contrast to the eight that I should be drinking. But I do have about 4 cups of coffee in the morning... that sort of counts (but not really).
No, sorry, doesn't count!
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Oh, but even more than that, I play music! Actually covered "Shakin' the Tree" with a bluegrass band some years ago for a New Year's gig!
Oh how cool! You were covering PG and all this time I didn't know!
Do you do vocals?
Across The River - Shaking The Tree
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote:Quote:Tangent: Are you a lunatic? Have you kept up with his other stuff? Brilliant, all! But that's a whole 'nother conversation!
No, I haven't. But I should check it out!
A lunatic is a hardcore PG fan. I am a lunatic. (ok folks I know I'm setting myself up here...have a little compassion before you jump on it ok? haha)
All his stuff is phenomenal...but very different. He had different eras. I'll email you some cool stuff just for fun. (and anyone else who is interested.)
Thanks for the info on Costa Rica!
(11-15-2012, 03:48 PM)Tenet Nosce Wrote: Wait... what?! But hydrogen ions are what make a liquid acidic!
Really? I didn't know that. Very interesting! I have no idea what the explanation is. Maybe it's something like lemon juice being acidic and yet causing the body to alkalize? That's just a wild guess. Did the doc on the chemistry help explain it? The one I sent on Oct. 28.
I don't know what the technical explanation is. I just know it has active ('free') hydrogen, and is very high alkaline pH, and strong negative ORP.
I think I sent you some research docs on active hydrogen too.
OMG! I just did a search looking for distributors in MI. I found one whom I thought sold my brand. I called him and it turned out to be a competitor. He didn't give away the water like we do. He sold it. I asked him what sort of experiences people were reporting, and he excitedly told me about people who got relief from constipation. I asked "what else?" and he had nothing - nothing - else to report! Not even the basic stuff we hear all the time, like acid reflux, pain relief, etc. Nothing. Nada. Zip. The only testimonial he had was relief from constipation? Just getting off sodas and drinking any water will do that!
Not knowing who I was, he kept talking...so I let him talk for a bit. He told me he'd had a vegan lady who complained that the water made her dizzy. So he told her she needed minerals, and took her off the 'ionized' water and put her on 'filtered' water + Himalayan salt, and she got all better. Meanwhile, I'm thinking, "hey I'm vegan and I've never gotten dizzy from my water" + lots of other vegans also...Basically he was admitting that his water obviously didn't have the ionized minerals (like ours does). My family's teeth all looked more opaque after drinking this water.
He also said his machine shorted out whenever the dishwasher kicked on, and he had to send it back. He used the words "Every time I've had to send it back they treated me really good" to which I said "Every time? Just how many times have you had to get your machine serviced, if you've only had it a year?" He evaded that question.
The competitors use SMPS technology, which is flimsy. So it's no surprise that it malfunctioned whenever his dishwasher kicked on. This is one of the 'top' companies.
My conscience then got the better of me and I came clean. I told him I honestly thought he sold my brand when I called him. Then I told him that his brand might be ok (though a waste of $$ in my opinion) for people who were healthy, but for very sick people, it might make the difference between life and death. I then told him of some of the testimonials we routinely get. He acted like he'd never heard any of those stories before. He didn't even try to pretend he got the same sort of testimonials...it was clear he didn't.
It ended amicably, and I wished him well. But, I think I peed in his pool.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Oceania - 11-16-2012
at least you didn't poop in his backyard!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 11-19-2012
Here the mainstream news admits how Big Pharma lets promising treatments fall by the wayside, if they can't patent them:
Cancer is finally cured in Canada but Big Pharma has no interest
I don't anything about that drug, but it just shows how they operate.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 01-15-2013
See video! Cancer is Curable NOW
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - neutral333 - 01-16-2013
In my understanding, according to Ra, cancer is caused by suppressed anger/bellicosity.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 01-17-2013
(01-16-2013, 02:06 AM)neutral333 Wrote: In my understanding, according to Ra, cancer is caused by suppressed anger/bellicosity.
Yes, that's true. We know from Ra that suppressed cancer can manifest as anger.
But, that doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't other causes of cancer as well.
And, if the person has resolved the root cause of the cancer (anger or whatever), then physical things can then work to neutralize the physical manifestation of the cancer.
My theory is that those who don't heal their cancer haven't yet resolved whatever caused it in the first place; whereas, those who do heal, are ready to let it go...but they still might need some support in terms of diet, lifestyle, medicinal herbs, etc.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - zenmaster - 01-19-2013
(01-17-2013, 10:15 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:That's an interesting interpretation.(01-16-2013, 02:06 AM)neutral333 Wrote: In my understanding, according to Ra, cancer is caused by suppressed anger/bellicosity.
Yes, that's true. We know from Ra that suppressed cancer can manifest as anger.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 01-19-2013
(01-19-2013, 10:35 AM)zenmaster Wrote:(01-17-2013, 10:15 PM)Bring4th_Monica Wrote:That's an interesting interpretation.(01-16-2013, 02:06 AM)neutral333 Wrote: In my understanding, according to Ra, cancer is caused by suppressed anger/bellicosity.
Yes, that's true. We know from Ra that suppressed cancer can manifest as anger.
What other way is there to interpret it? How do you interpret these?
Quote:46.15 Questioner: How does cancer do this learn/teaching when the entity developing cancer has no conscious idea of what is happening to him when he develops cancer?
Ra: I am Ra. In many cases catalyst is not used.
98.9 Questioner: I was wondering if I was correct in my assumption for the reason for the growth was a state of anger in the cat, Gandalf, because of the addition of the newer cats in his environment? Was I correct?
Ra: I am Ra. The original cause of what you call cancer was the distortion caused by this event. The proximate cause of this growth is the nature of the distortion of the body cells which you call cancer.
40.13 Questioner: Then you are saying that cancer is quite easily healed mentally and is a good teaching tool because it is easily healed mentally and once the entity forgives the other-self at whom he is angry the cancer will disappear. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. The other portion of healing has to do with forgiveness of self and a greatly heightened respect for the self. This may conveniently be expressed by taking care in dietary matters. This is quite frequently a part of the healing and forgiving process. Your basic premise is correct.
40.12 Questioner: You mentioned that the thoughts of anger now are causing cancer. Can you expand on this mechanism as it acts as a catalyst or its complete purpose?
Ra: I am Ra. The fourth density is one of revealed information. Selves are not hidden to self or other-selves. The imbalances or distortions which are of a destructive nature show, therefore, in more obvious ways, the vehicle of the mind/body/spirit complex thus acting as a teaching resource for self revelation. These illnesses such as cancer are correspondingly very amenable to self-healing once the mechanism of the destructive influence has been grasped by the individual.
98.14 Questioner: Was it necessary for the cat Gandalf to be a mind/body/spirit complex and harvestable third density to have the anger result in cancer?
Ra: I am Ra. No.
46.11 Questioner: Then are you saying that if a negatively polarizing entity is unable to control his own anger or unable to control himself in anger that he may cause cancer? Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is quite correct. The negative polarization contains a great requirement for control and repression.
40.9 Questioner: Has the vibration of the photon increased in frequency already?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct. It is this influence which has begun to cause thoughts to become things. As an example you may observe the thoughts of anger becoming those cells of the physical bodily complex going out of control to become what you call the cancer.
46.14 Questioner: Then cancer is a training catalyst operating for both polarities in approximately the same way but creating or attempting to create polarization in both directions, positive and negative, depending upon the orientation of the entity experiencing the catalyst. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is incorrect in that catalyst is unconscious and does not work with intelligence but rather is part of the, shall we say, mechanism of learn/teaching set up by the sub-Logos before the beginning of your space/time.
46.16 Questioner: What is the plan for use of the catalyst of cancer?
Ra: I am Ra. The catalyst, and all catalyst, is designed to offer experience. This experience in your density may be loved and accepted or it may be controlled. These are the two paths. When neither path is chosen the catalyst fails in its design and the entity proceeds until catalyst strikes it which causes it to form a bias towards acceptance and love or separation and control. There is no lack of space/time in which this catalyst may work.
46.7 Questioner: If an entity polarizes toward the service-to-self path, would anger have the same physical effect that it would have on the entity polarizing on the service-to-others path? Would it also cause cancer, or is it just a catalytic effect working in the positively polarizing entity?
Ra: I am Ra. The catalytic mechanisms are dependent, not upon the chosen polarity of a mind/body/spirit complex, but upon the use or purpose to which this catalysis is put. Thus the entity which uses the experience of anger to polarize consciously positively or negatively does not experience the bodily catalyst but rather uses the catalyst in mental configuration.
46.8 Questioner: I am not sure that I understand that. Let’s take some examples: an entity polarizing toward the negative path becomes angry. Let’s take the condition where he develops a cancer. What is the principle that is at work for him?
Ra: I am Ra. We see the thrust of your query and will respond at variance with the specific query if that meets with your approval.
46.9 Questioner: Certainly.
Ra: The entity polarizing positively perceives the anger. This entity, if using this catalyst mentally, blesses and loves this anger in itself. It then intensifies this anger consciously in mind alone until the folly of this red-ray energy is perceived not as folly in itself but as energy subject to spiritual entropy due to the randomness of energy being used.
Positive orientation then provides the will and faith to continue this mentally intense experience of letting the anger be understood, accepted, and integrated with the mind/body/spirit complex. The other-self which is the object of anger is thus transformed into an object of acceptance, understanding, and accommodation, all being reintegrated using the great energy which anger began.
The negatively oriented mind/body/spirit complex will use this anger in a similarly conscious fashion, refusing to accept the undirected or random energy of anger and instead, through will and faith, funneling this energy into a practical means of venting the negative aspect of this emotion so as to obtain control over other-self, or otherwise control the situation causing anger.
Control is the key to negatively polarized use of catalyst. Acceptance is the key to positively polarized use of catalyst. Between these polarities lies the potential for this random and undirected energy creating a bodily complex analog of what you call the cancerous growth of tissue.
46.10 Questioner: Then as I understand it you are saying that if the positively polarizing entity fails to accept the other-self or if the negatively polarizing entity fails to control the other-self, either of these conditions will cause cancer, possibly. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is partially correct. The first acceptance, or control depending upon polarity, is of the self. Anger is one of many things to be accepted and loved as a part of self or controlled as a part of self, if the entity is to do work.
98.15 Questioner: Then any mind/body complex can develop cancer. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.
60.20 Questioner: In trying to understand the creative energies, it has occurred to me that I really do not understand why unusable heat is generated as our Earth moves from third into fourth density. I know it has to do with disharmony between the vibrations of third and fourth density but why this would show up as a physical heating within the Earth is beyond me. Can you enlighten me on that?
Ra: I am Ra. The concepts are somewhat difficult to penetrate in your language. However, we shall attempt to speak to the subject. If an entity is not in harmony with its circumstances it feels a burning within. The temperature of the physical vehicle does not yet rise, only the heat of the temper or the tears, as we may describe this disharmony. However, if an entity persists for a long period of your space/time in feeling this emotive heat and disharmony, the entire body complex will begin to resonate to this disharmony, and the disharmony will then show up as the cancer or other degenerative distortions from what you call health.
When an entire planetary system of peoples and cultures repeatedly experiences disharmony on a great scale the earth under the feet of these entities shall begin to resonate with this disharmony. Due to the nature of the physical vehicle, disharmony shows up as a blockage of growth or an uncontrolled growth since the primary function of a mind/body/spirit complex’s bodily complex is growth and maintenance. In the case of your planet the purpose of the planet is the maintenance of orbit and the proper location or orientation with regards to other cosmic influences. In order to have this occurring properly the interior of your sphere is hot in your physical terms. Thus instead of uncontrolled growth you begin to experience uncontrolled heat and its expansive consequences.
98.10 Questioner: Are there any other cancerous growths at this time in Gandalf?
Ra: I am Ra. Yes.
98.12 Questioner: Is there anything that we can do to alleviate these problems that are other than surgical to help Gandalf?
Ra: I am Ra. Continue in praise and thanksgiving, asking for the removal of these distortions. There are two possible outcomes. Firstly, the entity shall dwell with you in contentment until its physical vehicle holds it no more due to distortions caused by the cancerous cells. Secondly, the life path may become that which allows the healing. We do not infringe upon free will by examining this life path although we may note the preponderance of life paths which use some distortion such as this to leave the physical body which in this case is the orange-ray body.
Apparently, cancer isn't the only emotion that can manifest as cancer if it isn't accepted and forgiven (by the STO entitiy...or controlled by the STS entity).
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - zenmaster - 01-19-2013
The way I'd interpret that collection of quotes would be that the thought is primary to the manifestation, not the other way around. To me, that also follows from the body is the creature of the mind's creation.
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - Monica - 01-19-2013
(01-19-2013, 05:28 PM)zenmaster Wrote: The way I'd interpret that collection of quotes would be that the thought is primary to the manifestation, not the other way around. To me, that also follows from the body is the creature of the mind's creation.
OK...I agree with that. How does that conflict with the statement unresolved/suppressed negative emotions like cancer can manifest as cancer?
Edit: I just realized I may have misinterpreted what you said. Did you mean you disagree with the interpretation, or that you found it worth considering? I see now that your statement was actually neutral. Sorry for the misinterpretation!
RE: Poll about cancer "cure" - BrownEye - 01-20-2013
US Scientists Find That Chemotherapy Boosts Cancer Growth
Quote:The scientists found that healthy cells damaged by chemotherapy secreted more of a protein called WNT16B which boosts cancer cell survival.
“The increase in WNT16B was completely unexpected,” study co-author Peter Nelson of the Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center in Seattle told AFP.
The protein was taken up by tumour cells neighbouring the damaged cells.
“WNT16B, when secreted, would interact with nearby tumour cells and cause them to grow, invade, and importantly, resist subsequent therapy,” said Nelson.
In cancer treatment, tumours often respond well initially, followed by rapid regrowth and then resistance to further chemotherapy.
Rates of tumour cell reproduction have been shown to accelerate between treatments.
“Our results indicate that damage responses in benign cells… may directly contribute to enhanced tumour growth kinetics,” wrote the team.