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+--- Thread: The elephant in the room. (/showthread.php?tid=7297)
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 02:28 AM)Adonai One Wrote: If the Creator is love and everything is made of the Creator, are not all things love?
No. (my lawyer training demands I answer with a yes/no when possible!!
) Things are made up of any combination of love and light.
I think actions are not things, but are an interaction upon that love and light by free will consciousness.
EDIT: See one of my posts on page 4. I now believe this position is wrong! "You are every thing, every being, every emotion, every event, every situation."
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 02:24 AM)xise Wrote: If that is your path, there is nothing wrong with it! There's space for an infinite amount of paths. Who knows, perhaps if you manage to love very single action in their entirety you could be finding a way to increase the infinite capacity of love. But it does seem beyond the scope of even the Ra material (which of course is limited). In my opinion, of course!Thank you. Thank you for expressing your opinion. I am sorry that I am getting tired. You've given something to think about.
Much love to you, Xise.
RE: The elephant in the room. - xise - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 02:34 AM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 02:24 AM)xise Wrote: If that is your path, there is nothing wrong with it! There's space for an infinite amount of paths. Who knows, perhaps if you manage to love very single action in their entirety you could be finding a way to increase the infinite capacity of love. But it does seem beyond the scope of even the Ra material (which of course is limited). In my opinion, of course!Thank you. Thank you for expressing your opinion. I am sorry that I am getting tired. You've given something to think about.
Much love to you, Xise.
Thank you for a fascinating discussion. I too am getting tired. Let's talk more tomorrow!! Love you back, brother
RE: The elephant in the room. - greywolf - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 02:24 AM)xise Wrote: [quote='Adonai One' pid='123558' dateline='1369808200']
The real question is can an entity discover the love that exists in all things without wisdom?
Probably not. Intellectually, I might be able to acknowledge that a ruthless child rapist is an entity capable of love, but my heart doesn't yet beat for them I think. I probably need a brighter green, as well as a brighter blue/indigo and be more balanced overall.
[quote]
Jeffrey Dahmer also probably "loved" his victims. The key question for someone of Adonai One's distortion is I believe, would he be ready to accept personal enslavement or not. That's the logical conclusion of accepting everything. (I have rejected it and am working on being independent of it.) It's easy to talk in the abstract about things happening to others without the hands-on experience.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Aloneness - 05-29-2013
This made me think about my father. I guess I've always been able to see his spirit and, over the years, have come to understand the root cause of his actions.
When I remind myself that this is all an illusion it's not hard to love him, at all.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 05:21 AM)greywolf Wrote: Jeffrey Dahmer also probably "loved" his victims. The key question for someone of Adonai One's distortion is I believe, would he be ready to accept personal enslavement or not. That's the logical conclusion of accepting everything. (I have rejected it and am working on being independent of it.) It's easy to talk in the abstract about things happening to others without the hands-on experience.
Rumor has it that in a life long ago on a hellish planet, I was enslaved. Therein I was raped and tortured constantly and even through it I tried to love my captor and surroundings.
That might be leaking in here. Perhaps it's fantasy.
RE: The elephant in the room. - greywolf - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 06:26 AM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 05:21 AM)greywolf Wrote: Jeffrey Dahmer also probably "loved" his victims. The key question for someone of Adonai One's distortion is I believe, would he be ready to accept personal enslavement or not. That's the logical conclusion of accepting everything. (I have rejected it and am working on being independent of it.) It's easy to talk in the abstract about things happening to others without the hands-on experience.
Rumor has it that in a life long ago on a hellish planet, I was enslaved. Therein I was raped and tortured constantly and even through it I tried to love my captor and surroundings.
That might be leaking in here. Perhaps it's fantasy.
I meant more personal catalyst of "wage-slavery" in this life. My impression was that the job is not great and standard of living not that high, and consequently there is some non-acceptance of social/economic conditions in general. But perhaps it's not strong enough to be significant.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:00 AM)greywolf Wrote:Oh, I deal with that. Let's just say the idea of becoming a lone woodsman has been attractive to me. I could work a life as a wage-slave but I don't do it currently because I find it dulls the mind. I was barely thinking after my stint at Wal-Mart.(05-29-2013, 06:26 AM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 05:21 AM)greywolf Wrote: Jeffrey Dahmer also probably "loved" his victims. The key question for someone of Adonai One's distortion is I believe, would he be ready to accept personal enslavement or not. That's the logical conclusion of accepting everything. (I have rejected it and am working on being independent of it.) It's easy to talk in the abstract about things happening to others without the hands-on experience.
Rumor has it that in a life long ago on a hellish planet, I was enslaved. Therein I was raped and tortured constantly and even through it I tried to love my captor and surroundings.
That might be leaking in here. Perhaps it's fantasy.
I meant more personal catalyst of "wage-slavery" in this life. My impression was that the job is not great and standard of living not that high, and consequently there is some non-acceptance of social/economic conditions in general. But perhaps it's not strong enough to be significant.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Aureus - 05-29-2013
Your thoughts and actions stem from the status of your energies. As you refine and balance yourself, so will they be refined.. until such time comes that you know precisely what to choose and will think nothing of it. Meanwhile, you will continue to experience "right&wrongness".
My guess is that while on the inside, you have opinion X about murderers etc, and in the Ra material, you've read that everything is Y. There is clearly a conflict between what you REALLY think, and what you.. think you SHOULD think.
You will continue to feel a,b,c,d....x,z until finally.. you'll feel nothing but Y.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Aloneness - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:12 AM)Adonai One Wrote: Oh, I deal with that. Let's just say the idea of becoming a lone woodsman has been attractive to me. I could work a life as a wage-slave but I don't do it currently because I find it dulls the mind. I was barely thinking after my stint at Wal-Mart.
Well, I can barely deal with that. I mean, I cannot imagine myself being a wage-slave ever again. But I will be kindly forced to get another job in about a month from now. The horror. I'm going to buy a lottery ticket.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:37 AM)Aureus Wrote: Your thoughts and actions stem from the status of your energies. As you refine and balance yourself, so will they be refined.. until such time comes that you know precisely what to choose and will think nothing of it. Meanwhile, you will continue to experience "right&wrongness".
My guess is that while on the inside, you have opinion X about murderers etc, and in the Ra material, you've read that everything is Y. There is clearly a conflict between what you REALLY think, and what you.. think you SHOULD think.
You will continue to feel a,b,c,d....x,z until finally.. you'll feel nothing but Y.
The thing is I don't want to think of anything as right or wrong. I want to be objective. I want to be neutral for some reason.
RE: The elephant in the room. - reeay - 05-29-2013
Perhaps how we react to when we think of people who suffer thru infliction of cruelty, pain & violation of their human rights and to those who inflict these things, is the pain that we personally experienced in our lives that is yet to be accepted.
On the one hand, intellectualizing may help us to come to a rational reason why people engage in such violence and cruelty. Then on the other, what colors our thoughts is our own subjective experience around violence and cruelty and the pain that we each feel within.
And so the elephant in the room may be in a 'place' within each of us that has yet to reach acceptance and forgiveness by processing our own experiences around violence & cruelty, whether it being bullied in past, being treated cruelly by others, feeling oppressed and so on so on. Personally, having acceptance and forgiveness with self goes a long way when faced with this situation (both directly experiencing and vicariously experiencing).
RE: The elephant in the room. - Lycen - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:50 AM)Adonai One Wrote: The thing is I don't want to think of anything as right or wrong. I want to be objective. I want to be neutral for some reason.
I quite recently "discovered" neutrality as a state. Where neither happiness or anger have a hold on me, every emotion/thought just passes true. I found it gives more clarity in situations and does not drain one. Needs constant vigilance over the self though. Lets you stay "cool" to great degrees under stress but you will not get angry or happy. Unless you give said emotion or thought "permission". Yet if you are neutral, neither of the extremes should have any pull is my take.
It is a weird state I have not experimented with it a lot, this was but a short summery on what I have noticed.
I think I would rather be balanced than neutral, as I want to express both sides, in my eyes both are needed. But personally I am more drawn to and choose the "light" at this time. I would and have chosen neutrality (I realized) during times of greater distress to become numb to everything and just let go. Kinda like sleep but "awake" I guess.
I think once we open up to our guides/higher self/god to a needed degree, then we can live in harmony with everything around us. As we are in tune with something greater so could/are they (as in guides/higher self/god) as well like a hierarchy, probably/possibly all the way to the source.
So what then is the meaning of life? Well still to experience being the creator but now in balance with the whole. Choice for the light, I think.
*I wonder if the "I" will be ever whole again.. what then? Seems like a really ridiculous question to ask oneself though .p
*(just a pondering out loud)
RE: The elephant in the room. - reeay - 05-29-2013
This is a story about a Cambodian man, who lost his entire family during the war http://theforgivenessproject.com/stories/sokreaksa-himm-cambodia/
He wanted to take revenge on his family's tormentors until he finds some kind of acceptance of his own internal pains, thru christianity for him, and then goes on to forgive the men who killed his entire family.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 07:50 AM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 07:37 AM)Aureus Wrote: Your thoughts and actions stem from the status of your energies. As you refine and balance yourself, so will they be refined.. until such time comes that you know precisely what to choose and will think nothing of it. Meanwhile, you will continue to experience "right&wrongness".
My guess is that while on the inside, you have opinion X about murderers etc, and in the Ra material, you've read that everything is Y. There is clearly a conflict between what you REALLY think, and what you.. think you SHOULD think.
You will continue to feel a,b,c,d....x,z until finally.. you'll feel nothing but Y.
The thing is I don't want to think of anything as right or wrong. I want to be objective. I want to be neutral for some reason.
Are you sure you just don't want the responsibility of having to make a choice?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 02:58 PM)TheEternal Wrote:(05-29-2013, 07:50 AM)Adonai One Wrote:(05-29-2013, 07:37 AM)Aureus Wrote: Your thoughts and actions stem from the status of your energies. As you refine and balance yourself, so will they be refined.. until such time comes that you know precisely what to choose and will think nothing of it. Meanwhile, you will continue to experience "right&wrongness".
My guess is that while on the inside, you have opinion X about murderers etc, and in the Ra material, you've read that everything is Y. There is clearly a conflict between what you REALLY think, and what you.. think you SHOULD think.
You will continue to feel a,b,c,d....x,z until finally.. you'll feel nothing but Y.
The thing is I don't want to think of anything as right or wrong. I want to be objective. I want to be neutral for some reason.
Are you sure you just don't want the responsibility of having to make a choice?
Perhaps. The fact is I'll probably end up on the side of "light" in any case. I am not good at being truly selfish.
Also:
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Aha You won't 'end up' on either side, because you can only get to one side or the other through conscious choice.
Quote:17.33 Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult a path to attain harvestability upon than the positive?
Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a strait and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.
Beware the sinkhole, my friend.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 04:21 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Aha You won't 'end up' on either side, because you can only get to one side or the other through conscious choice.What about the man that sees all things as service and just serves as his heart entails? Is that really a sinkhole if one is still active in their life?
Quote:17.33 Questioner: Why is the negative path so much more difficult a path to attain harvestability upon than the positive?
Ra: I am Ra. This is due to a distortion of the Law of One which indicates that the gateway to intelligent infinity be a gateway at the end of a strait and narrow path as you may call it. To attain fifty-one percent dedication to the welfare of other-selves is as difficult as attaining a grade of five percent dedication to otherselves. The, shall we say, sinkhole of indifference is between those two.
Beware the sinkhole, my friend.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Aureus - 05-29-2013
Just keep your heart and throat open and 51% is no problem.. But I'm guessing you're aiming higher than that.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
If you spend a day being selfish, the next selfless, then the next selfish, then the next selfless, by the end of your life you will have made no choice, but simply swam around in the sinkhole. You may do this, it is acceptable, but is a very slower manner of progress.
Becoming more aware, more conscious, means more conscious awareness of one's choice and thus more participation in one's choice.
The question comes is do you think about the results of your actions before engaging in the actions, or merely act and justify things later? Following the heart without wisdom serves the same as following wisdom without heart.
Each will show you one side of the coin, but only when love and wisdom are used together do you see the whole coin.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 04:34 PM)TheEternal Wrote: If you spend a day being selfish, the next selfless, then the next selfish, then the next selfless, by the end of your life you will have made no choice, but simply swam around in the sinkhole. You may do this, it is acceptable, but is a very slower manner of progress.
Let's be honest: Is there anybody out there capable of being a hateful bastard one day and being loving the next?
I'll just stop being coy. I love loving life and being challenged to accept my situation rather than seperate and conquer what is difficult. I think it's obvious that I'm hardly indifferent and that I aim for the positive. If I die and I find my higher-self telling me I wasted a life or that I polarized negative, I would be shocked.
I just don't like thinking any side is better. I think the path of the murderer deserves just as much praise as the Saint.
RE: The elephant in the room. - AnthroHeart - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 04:42 PM)Adonai One Wrote: If I die and I find my higher-self telling me I wasted a life or that I polarized negative, I would be shocked.
I'd be surprised too to find I polarized negative. But I am lazy a lot, and don't do too much, so that could be wasting a life. Of course I do work when it comes across that I need to.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Spend your whole life praising the murderer and you feed the energy of murder. A true Saint cares little for praise.
Energy flows where thought goes.
There is no need to think of either side as "better", however there is the need to make the choice one way or the other. How can you make a choice with no preference?
You have here clearly shown what choice you are making and desiring to make, so why deny the nature of that preference? Why cling to the choice you have chosen opposite to?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Spaced - 05-29-2013
You would not be surprised to find that you had polarized negatively because that would only happen if you chose to polarize that way. Polarization can't happen without the choice. You can always not choose though.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
Also, Ra has said that the more one polarizes one way or the either, the more easy it is for them to switch polarities. So some wanderers could very much have the challenge of being hateful one day and loving the next, although it likely isn't common.
(05-29-2013, 04:56 PM)Spaced Wrote: You would not be surprised to find that you had polarized negatively because that would only happen if you chose to polarized that way. Polarization can't happen without the choice. You can always not choose though.
Exactly! No conscious choice, no polarity.
RE: The elephant in the room. - AnthroHeart - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 04:56 PM)Spaced Wrote: You would not be surprised to find that you had polarized negatively because that would only happen if you chose to polarize that way. Polarization can't happen without the choice. You can always not choose though.
That would surprise me to find that I hadn't polarized at all. I remember when I was going through some schizo episodes where I felt very loving and was sacrificing a great deal to help the world energetically. I went through much suffering to support God whom I thought I was working for at the time.
Do you polarize more if you are suffering during the service?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 04:55 PM)TheEternal Wrote: Spend your whole life praising the murderer and you feed the energy of murder. A true Saint cares little for praise.
Energy flows where thought goes.
There is no need to think of either side as "better", however there is the need to make the choice one way or the other. How can you make a choice with no preference?
You have here clearly shown what choice you are making and desiring to make, so why deny the nature of that preference? Why cling to the choice you have chosen opposite to?
The Sun radiates to both the murderer and the Saint nonetheless.
I don't like having preference because it makes me feel like a fool. It seems folly to me for I see nothing intrinsic about any choice. All choices seem infinitely valuable to me as well as infinitely meaningless. In fact, I think any value that is percieved comes from ourselves. I see value in taking reality for what it is macrocosmically and living through that lens.
I will play a specific part in life but I won't let myself become blinded. Again, genuine preference seems folly to me.
Oh the irony... The Choice is The Fool. Heh. There is a deeper meaning here.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
We are not making the choices of a Sun, we are making the choices of humans.
Is not your choice of how to view choice your most fundamental choice?
Also, if you see every choice as both valuable and meaningless, which of these do you choose to look at?
It seems to me you typically choose to view choices as meaningless rather than valuable. This is another choice that must be made.
Do you choose because of value, or in lieu of meaning?
RE: The elephant in the room. - Adonai One - 05-29-2013
(05-29-2013, 05:14 PM)TheEternal Wrote: We are not making the choices of a Sun, we are making the choices of humans.
Is not your choice of how to view choice your most fundamental choice?
Also, if you see every choice as both valuable and meaningless, which of these do you choose to look at?
It seems to me you typically choose to view choices as meaningless rather than valuable. This is another choice that must be made.
Do you choose because of value, or in lieu of meaning?
If I chose absolute meaninglessness, I would have killed myself by now and casted myself into the abyss of the lowest part of this octave.
We chose value when we ascended from the Creator, yet we still remain the same blank void we ascended from.
We are everything and nothing. We are infinity and zero.
I don't refuse to choose anything. I wish to choose everything. But it seems both of those are the same.
RE: The elephant in the room. - Unbound - 05-29-2013
So what is the part of you that is human going to do with its choice?
We can talk about our infinite godhood and whatnot to the ends of the Earth, but we are still here and we still have to choose.