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+---- Thread: Courting the maiden (/showthread.php?tid=12629)
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-17-2016
Quote:The example I gave is one where your own High Priestess would tell you that the best service you could provide would be to not act. Who knows, maybe because of this such a case will come to be part of your experience and it will be a challenge to make a choice between what you consciously perceive and what you unconsciously perceive.
I feel like sometimes the gears almost catch so that we are in sync but then it doesn't work. In our analogy we were talking about a starving entity! I feel like there's some serious goalpost shifting going on in this discussion. I've obviously had catalyst where it was better to not serve an entity than to serve it. I understand what this means. But if you are starving, don't you feed yourself? Why treat the other selves differently? Anyway, I really only had one point:
Quote:Many use the trunk and roots of mind as if that portion of mind were a badly used, prostituted entity. Then this entity gains from this great storehouse that which is rough, prostituted, and without great virtue. Those who turn to the deep mind, seeing it in the guise of the maiden, go forth to court it. The courtship has nothing of plunder in its semblance and may be protracted, yet the treasure gained by such careful courtship is great. The right-hand and left-hand transformations of the mind may be seen to differ by the attitude of the conscious mind towards its own resources as well as the resources of other-selves.
To me, the "go forth" implies outward action. And again, the Fool's journey is about integrating the mind/BODY/spirit complex, not just balancing the mind and saying hey I'm good.
And yes, this is all about relativity. I made this thread about my perception of my husband's experience of "courting the maiden", so this thread is one person's anecdotal experience from a third person perspective. I think previously an assumption was made that "courting a maiden" implied that all maidens like to be courted in a specific way, like flattering their ego or some such. My husband's experience was through how he treated me, which involved none of the negative aspects that seem to be associated with courting, and I of course never intended to imply the negative aspects. But I am very glad we are having this thorough discussion, because the whole of the card is about what energy we are using when we treat others, and we obviously all feel a little differently.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-17-2016
I think the analogy speaks to whoever has a traditional approach to courting. Like just going after what you desire, that's what most people do and is the most straight forward way of experiencing that and I think Ra use that term because it is the best way to reach the most people. I think me and minyatur have in common that our relationship with opposite energy is much more complex than that and cannot be portrayed by this analogy but it doesn't make it wrong. It just tells me how relative tarot can be, which is a great thing I think.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-17-2016
Not really, to me courting simply implies to act unlike yourself because you believe that to show yourself would not be enough.
So to court the High Priestess is to see yourself as not worthy of her and that you need to work on making yourself worthy in her eyes. Which makes no sense whatsoever to me, to act in such way with a portion of myself. The High Priestess already knows you more than you know yourself.
What I see instead is respect, love and evolving partnership.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-17-2016
Actually, all I know is that be it a relationship or my high priestest, I cannot get what I am looking for through courting. My intuiton has something more to tell me than what courting can bring and I am here seeking very specific experiences. In fact I realize that the different games that can be played with the high priestest are so vastly different that it would be hard to explain that to someone else. For exemple, my intuition tells me all the time that if everybody go right I should go left and if everybody go left I should go right. It has never deceived me but I would have a hard time explaining someone who goes with the majority how that is infinitely more useful than following the majority because that serves the lesson I am here to learn. There is in fact infinite games you can be here to do that are irrelevant to polarity and harvest. If I compare that to a game of dodge ball, the game is to eliminate the adversaries but you can make friends meanwhile or you can target a specific opponent. Those are not the rules of the game but you can pretty much do infinite smaller games into the game. Heck even the octave is only a game within biggers games so it never ends really. All I'm saying is that we're all here for different reasons so there is not much to categorize about someone's relation with their intuition. They are very specific focuses related to one's own incarnation.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-18-2016
Okay... so again we've gone back to muddling the semantics involved with the word courting.
THIS IS NOT LITERAL GUYS.
This is an analogy where Ra is describing our attitude towards how we view the way we use the resources of our deep mind and how we use the resources of other selves. One principle use must be abandoned. This is how the transformation of the mind works. For the STO path, one must continuously "abandon" any attitudes towards the self or other selves that view them as resources to be used, and instead, elevate them to a sacramental level where we see within ourselves and all of Creation the true, infinite, pure love of the Creator, where all is provided for. Not because of any inherent lack of worth, but because we can't get by in 3rd density without using the resources of otherselves - it's just impossible. We have to eat, talk, cuddle, drive. We are constantly using the "resources of the deep mind and other selves". Cultivating the proper attitude towards those resources takes conscious effort within the mind complex. Obviously, each resource requires a different "input" to "output" a cooperative endeavor. But working towards that cooperative endeavor is the point, (reunification, hence the sexual analogy), and letting go of any thoughts that see what is removed from us as just resources to be used.
And let me go back to feeding the starving analogy: You would feed yourself if you were starving, right? You aren't going to perpetuate the hunger to learn a lesson? (Unless you are fasting, by choice) I want to simplify it by saying "Treat others how they want to be treated" BUT, the prostitute has willingly put herself in the position to be plundered. So it's not even that. It's about treating your deep mind and all other selves with the highest regard possible, to put all of creation upon a pedestal. I don't want to use the word "worship", but I think it could be applicable here - you must learn to worship creation. Not in the sense that you are beholden to it like the Old Testament God, but in the way that a young boy worships a virginal maiden that he is courting her without plunder: She is unknown, yet she is all, she is perfect and whole, yet she completes him. But I think this analogy doesn't work because you both assume that a "courting a maiden" is a really mundane, boring chore, and you can't get passed the cliches. Again, my definition of "courting" in this context is infinitely varied depending on which resource you are seeking.
I think there is a reason why Ra uses "court" and "plunder", and I think it's valuable (for me) to distill energies into one of those two vessels. Courting is asking gently with reverence, plundering is taking without thought, it's either-or. Again, we can't avoid using the resources of our self and others, so we must frame the way we use these resources in a way that is unifying. If you can't divorce the two words from each other and see where they lie on opposite ends of the spectrum, then I'm sorry for presenting to you a distorted analogy.
I think why we have a huge issue here is because this is one of the big apparent paradoxes in 3rd density: How do we serve, while letting others be and flourish as they are? That's why the delicate touch of free will is so important. Ra teaches us a lot on how to serve without infringing others - for instance, if a starving person is asking you for food, you can give it to them, and you can enjoy the energy exchange. Because that's really all that the hungry person analogy is - an analogy for an energy exchange, creator to creator. Someone asks you for energy, and 3rd density makes us think there is something scarce/finite about that energy, when really it's just a infinite stream of our own creative font that we can use as we please. Overcoming that apparent 'scarcity' carries huge metaphysical weight. A hungry person asks me for food? Well hopefully my chakras are open enough so that the thought of dispersing/radiating energy sounds like a pleasure.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-18-2016
I haven't finished reading it, but the recently posted Q'uo is about the transformation vs acceptance. http://llresearch.org/transcripts/issues/2016/2016_0507.aspx
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-18-2016
This discussion is soooo closely related to the book I just finished, The Art of Meditation. I know I have been mentioning that book a lot lately
Joel Goldsmith's entire approach is based on courting, as opposed to plundering, even though he never uses those terms. And it's certainly a protracted process for most.
It's funny, I once had a root canal done, and my dentist was training someone while he was doing the root canal, and he said to his apprentice "you have to romance it out", I'll never forget it, and I kept thinking about that while reading this thread. Lol!
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-18-2016
Most of us here weren't born with a silver spoon in our mouth. (Ra even says there's a reason why one polarity is born into a wealthy, healthy life, and I think this is why) We are born into a world that, for whatever reason, isn't cooperating with us. That is catalyst: The disharmonious interactions that we experience. As Wanderers, we program this experience. We can take that catalyst, and use it - and Ra says that the STO way to use it is similar to the efforts made when you are in love. You want to make the world fall in love with you. Not because you want to change it, though that is the end-game of the transformative power of love, but because it is giving you signals that it is displeased in one way or another, and you feel maybe the totality of your beingness can alleviate some of these feelings of lack. So slowly, we begin to shower affection and attention upon reality because we increasingly see its inherent worth, its need to be nutured. And even though we ourselves have moved on to a better place of being, we still see other selves crying out for help - these are calls from our own body complex. Someone is hungry? No, I am hungry. So, if I can hear the growling stomach, I can do something to address it.
It is so, so subtle, because the STS path sees love for themselves all around them, because they enchant their world with love for themselves. So the transformation leads to the same place: A transformation of the body which allows a more desirable configuration of manifest reality. But there are nuances in the paths, and one of them must be abandoned, so discussing it thoroughly is good I think. I am very much not trying to limit the idea of the transformation to "courting", I am trying to elucidate and widen the definition of "courting" that I am assuming that Ra means.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-18-2016
The only thing I can answer is that nothing you have just said is wrong or distorted. I agree with it on the relativity scale. You provide the best information there is to understand about Ra's analogy. I just think I don't treat my intuition or someone I love that way and still think my way of doing it is STO and in allignment with good intentions and some specifically chosen paths to walk towards the lesson I am here to learn. And I think the transformation of the mind still occurs.
I guess some of the misunderstanding has been focused a lot on what courting means and forgive me for that, I was likely projecting personal favorite distortions of mine. But I realize now that in fact, the word is subject to personal interpretation just like tarot and is beside the point.
What I was trying to say is that for both situtations I think I have a personal way of doing things that I think is better for me than both courting and plundering. So it becomes somewhat irrelevant if it is better to plunder or court because I find I can do better than both. Not that I am better, but that I have a better way for me. Just like the worshiping you mention, one can choose between different subtle variations of putting creation on a pedestal, I think my way of praising creation would be better than worshiping if worshiping was the general term. In fact that's what I think my intuition has teached me, is that the best way I can do anything is never found on the general path. The best way I can be of service, the best way I can love, the best way I can radiate is not the way that seems obvious or the way that most people would use on an easy path therefore I must explore where there is still no paths. I don't think astrology defines me but I think it is funny I have 7x capricorn in my chart. It says I am not here for any easy path. I refine love just like I refine wisdom so that they mature in quality, something I cannot find either in courting and plondering because they are general term. I think plondering and courting are like you said a way of categorizing postive vs negative intention, but I have found more refined ways of having positive intentions than courting. Of course I don't pretend to be alone and that each has probably found better ways that works for each one of them.
That is why if I was courting the feminine energy, even though it would be with good intentions, I could have basic emotional needs fullfilled like affection, sex and things like that. But I wouldn't find what I am actually looking for that is higer vibrational relationship. Actually I put myself in the shoes of my opposite and for having been courted myself, I don't find it very pleasant so I would not do that to someone else if I do not enjoy it myself.
It is very situational but on most occasion I found that really deep and open contemplation with a strong feeling of awe to be the best way I can radiate love to creation rather than try to fix everything. I would also do that to myself. Not because I'd want to justify the way I am but because I would want to justify everything that is, out of love. I can find infinite beauty in distortions and that includes both mine and those of others and accept that the distortions others experience are chosen experience that I must respect and love for what they are and know that they will fall away when they are no longer needed.
The starving analogy is where the situation may get extreme enough that I know if I would not help my own self I would make the other suffer deeper than what it is here to be of catalyst. Like you said the starving person is itself the analogy. If I increase the catalyst for him instead of internalizing it to me, than I increase the separation and therefore increase the loop of pain for both of us and it is decided here in the present and not in the incarnation plan. It would be denial of myself and denial of catalyst. Denial of oneness. Of course the analogy is pushed to the extreme and I don't think most people face those kind of catalyst often. In most situations it could be very hard to tell if helping someone is really helpful. The debate would be personal I think. But I think the best way to know if a service is really a service is whether it increases or decreases seperation. There are probably also ways someone could be STO but be here to explore separation in which case it is possible someone's incarnation plan may APPEAR to take opportunity from separation but just be related to the lesson someone is here to learn. There is really no boundaries to relativity.
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-18-2016
Night Owl Wrote:But I think the best way to know if a service is really a service is whether it increases or decreases separation.
I do think in the case of a starving person, you are severely intellectualising a very natural, spontaneous human reaction. It is as simple as putting yourself in someone else's shoes, which isn't even on the cognitive level, it just happens, it's called empathy. They're starving, go get a sandwich quickly, they're cold, go get a blanket quickly... For me personally, the challenge of how to serve don't fall into these "basic human needs" categories, the service to be performed is quite evident in such a situation. Service is a challenge when someone suffers because of their deeply ingrained/internalised distortions/biases. Or their viewpoint is quite limited, and you can't just bulldoze in there with you expanded perception.
Most people respond to love, friendship and goodwill first, before they open up anyway. They can feel love, and love opens up the way. Which bring us back to courting.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-18-2016
Well I said myself that's what I would do in the case of a starving person. So I don't think I was overintellectualizing. When I did intellectualize the process I was refering to more challenging situation where the line is hard to tell. It is not in the case of a starving person and I would offer help. The thing is someone cannot simulate empathy. If someone was to take that catalyst and not care but pretend to care they would not really be of service. The way to realize how to be of service for that person would be to think of which choice increase seperation and which choice increase oneness.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-18-2016
Do you believe it is possible to move through the positive transformation of the mind without worship? Because this what I block at with courting which implies a form of idolatry, of which I am dissonant with. I don't worship what we all are as it simply always was and will ever be in the experience of itself.
How do you view your worship of Creation, as a worship of what is external to you (separation) or as a worship of yourself through others?
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-18-2016
I think I fall back to my original analogy which was "fall madly in love with", which is why I again, resonate more with courtship. It's falling in love, and being in love with myself and all of creation, and therefore being obsessed with it, really. Not in the way that one is obsessed with something outside of themselves as an idol, but just because that's what I feel when I think about this card, and all of creation. In love, like just thinking about it makes me happy, makes my heart chakra open.
Anyway, removed from any religious symbology, here is the definition of worship:
Quote:Search Results
wor·ship
ˈwərSHəp/
noun
noun: worship
1.
the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity.
verb
verb: worship
1.
show reverence and adoration for (a deity); honor with religious rites.
Reverence and adoration, which is what one feels when they fall in love. And if your deity is the One Infinite Creator, I think worship in this sense is okay.
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-18-2016
Jade, do you think that courting/worshiping/reverence is the best way you know to communicate/radiate towards any beings/things? Does it feel to you like you bring out the best of yourself when doing that? Do you feel like it is as close to unconditional love as you can? Is the best of you shared during this kind of energy exchange?
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-19-2016
(05-18-2016, 08:35 PM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Reverence and adoration, which is what one feels when they fall in love. And if your deity is the One Infinite Creator, I think worship in this sense is okay.
I'd think reverance and adoration are distortions of love and not love itself.
Do you believe that each ,with an open and crystalized heart chakra, will feel the same as any other person? Or that each within many-ness will distort love into a personal feeling and then expression?
RE: Courting the maiden - YinYang - 05-19-2016
Night Owl Wrote:The thing is someone cannot simulate empathy. If someone was to take that catalyst and not care but pretend to care they would not really be of service. The way to realize how to be of service for that person would be to think of which choice increase seperation and which choice increase oneness.
It's true that the heart with which a gift is given, determines whether it is even a gift at all. A gift given out of a sense of duty, is no gift, let alone emulating empathy. I just feel it is not so much an intellectual process, that's all. If feelings of joy and pleasure accompany the gift, there is a "something unseen" transferred to the recipient. The aim is to lift that person higher, through love or open heartedness, just because you yourself have it, and imparting it is joyful, and definitely oneness. Giving with a hesitant heart , or seeing them as lowly or pitiful, is even injurious to them.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-19-2016
(05-18-2016, 10:55 PM)Night Owl Wrote: Jade, do you think that courting/worshiping/reverence is the best way you know to communicate/radiate towards any beings/things? Does it feel to you like you bring out the best of yourself when doing that? Do you feel like it is as close to unconditional love as you can? Is the best of you shared during this kind of energy exchange?
I'm very confused by your tone and questions. Why would I answer no? What I am trying to do is describe an open heart chakra, and the subsequent feeling of having indigo ray activation, where "service to others is automatic". It has to do with using the Transformation consciously to activate the Great Way. The two of you just seem to be talking yourselves out of ever consciously utilizing the Transformation, but I'm trying to delineate it so that I know when I'm using it I'm doing it properly. When I feel in love with all of creation, I feel as if I'm "on" and doing it right, yes. I have yet to find any better feeling or emotion or any other better way to describe it.
Quote:I'd think reverance and adoration are distortions of love and not love itself.
This is confusing too. What would you say are the positive attributes of universal love?
Yes, I think reverence and adoration are distortions of love, but I believe they are positive distortions of love. I'm saying -everything- should be elevated to what Ra calls the sacramental level, nothing above the self or anything else.
These are the feelings of affirmation that others seek from the Creator, or whatever they seek as divinity. Especially in contradiction to their 3rd density experience where they are belittled. This energy is the salvation of 3rd density. Why would you see it as a distortion, in this context?
Quote:Do you believe that each ,with an open and crystalized heart chakra, will feel the same as any other person? Or that each within many-ness will distort love into a personal feeling and then expression?
Well of course not, but I think everyone is capable of "falling in love", as that is the archetypical movement of energy we are discussing for a reason. You either know what it feels like to fall in love, or you have a distorted idea of it based upon media/society and not experience. I'm trying to describe the process one goes through when they decide to take the leap and fall in love with all of creation. I can tell you, that I don't believe that they will look at a hungry person and turn away with food in their hands to "teach them a lesson" if their heart-chakra is wide open.
A wide-open heart chakra resonates with the martyr vibration. Do you understand what it feels like to be willing to martyr yourself for another our of love?
Haven't you ever had a pet? Or a grandparent who doted on you? Someone you adored and revered? How are these distortions of universal love?
Quote:a·dore
əˈdô(ə)r/
verb
love and respect (someone) deeply.
re·vere
rəˈvir/
verb
feel deep respect or admiration for (something).
So it looks like these words equate down to "respect". Do you consider respect for others a distortion?
RE: Courting the maiden - Night Owl - 05-19-2016
Well there is no harm in my tone. I've just radically changed my approach because I think I started the wrong way by sharing my perspective while there is no need to. You have something to offer from yours that I should simply work with that and leave the rest. I understand re-reading it that it can sound confusing.
I just don't think it is my case and am wondering if you think I would still be going through the transformation of the mind in this case. But I understand that if you do it is likely happening. I think that is the only remainning confusion I have with courting.
Just so you know my answers are not complementary to minyatur's. They just happen. We were trying to avoid this happening but it seems like it happened anyway.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-19-2016
I know, I meant to keep a differentiation but it spilled over into combining the two view points. I understand the distinction.
And I apologize for misreading the tone in your post, I just wasn't sure what you were getting at. Plus I feel like I had answered all of those questions (really just one question reworded 4 ways) in this thread already. Yes, this is the best way I know how to describe this feeling/exchange of energy, and I've tried other ways, and I'll keep trying new ways. Words are hard, however.
To you, I would ask, how do you see the transformation? What are you "giving up" in terms of which principle use of the mind are you letting go of? Because to me that is the main concept of the archetype. I would also like to mention that the male's eyes are closed, so the matrix doesn't actually have a vision of WHAT he wants to potentiate, but merely would like to blindly follow the 'path' of his choice. To me it makes sense in the context of surrendering your will to the one you love - not because you are unworthy or have to lie or change yourself for the one you love, but because your will becomes their will. This is about aligning your will with the will of the Creator, which is your will anyway - another paradox, but resolvable. And it's about consciously, constantly letting go of any attitude towards others that their resources are yours to use. Do you look for ways which you are viewing others as just resources, and reframing your intentions when you do? Because then you are using the transformation of the mind.
It takes being able to look at oneself honestly, and without judgement. There is always work to be done. It's easy to slip and desire that are needs are met before others'. But when you are in love, the others' needs become your own, and your desires become fulfilling the needs of the others', because that's what brings you joy. I don't know how else to describe it. Yes, in one way there is sacrifice of the self involved, but only in the way that you know that coming together in harmony creates a greater sum than its parts. The only sacrifice is the 3rd density parts of the ego that think our gratification is more important the the very real other-self that is involved in nearly every transaction.
Would it work to take the analogy all the way sexual? Ra says 6th density unity is of the "fusion" nature, being a "constant orgasm of delight". With the left-hand transformation, you are receiving the "orgasm", and the other-self in the interaction is likely not, at least not by any effort of yours. In the right hand transformation, the orgasm of the other-self is paramount and the end-goal of the of the "courting". I suppose how I can see that is muddled by our culture, because the male is usually "courting" for his own gratification. But this is decidedly what we are not talking about. "Courting" for your own gratification is viewing all through the lens of the prostitute, a means of getting your rocks off. Carefully courting a maiden means wanting her gratification above your own, or at the same time, as Ra says the simultaneous orgasm is the most powerful.
For instance, when my husband and I make love, I have multiple orgasms. Due to protracted courtship, we have pretty intense love-making, and when I orgasm, it feels just as good for him. So he focuses on gratifying me into orgasm because when he actually orgasms, the act of "courtship"/copulation is over, so he delays his own gratification because he's actually getting more gratification that way, experiencing more orgasms, because my orgasms are his orgasms, my joy is his joy, my hunger is his hunger, my satiation is his satiation, there is no separation, but complete fusion. This is the reward of a careful and protracted courtship. And this goes both ways. I'm not sitting back as the female and saying "Please me, pleasure me, worship me, male!" - the genders don't matter (except in the literal description of sexual polarity and the ability of females to have multiple orgasms). While lovemaking, I am focused on his gratification, as well - though, ironically, and as polarity has it, again, his gratification is delaying his own for my gratification, so the best thing I can really do in the situation is give in and enjoy myself, because it's the mutual act of enjoyment that feeds-back into itself when you are in love.
- - earth_spirit - 05-19-2016
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RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-19-2016
That's exactly what I'm talking about.... as opposed to the actual "orgasm" of ejaculation which is the end of the sexual act, until one can rev up again. My apologies for being unclear. He ultimately has more orgasms through the act of refining what he seeks as pleasure, which to most is the obvious ejaculation orgasm.
I think you missed my point but that's okay. I was not talking about my husband cultivating his sexual energy for my pleasure, but for HIS pleasure, but without me there would be no pleasure period, and without no harmonious sexual intercourse, there is no green-ray sexual transfer. It's the integration of both parties having simultaneous pleasure. Is this so hard to imagine?
- - earth_spirit - 05-19-2016
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RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-19-2016
I'm talking in the context of the archetype. Take what you want from it. It's about reunifying in the face of separation, so you need an "other self" to experience the transformation, even if that other self is your own subconscious. Context, my friend. The Fool's Journey. The Lovers card of the Tarot.
- - earth_spirit - 05-19-2016
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RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-19-2016
Thanks friend.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-19-2016
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:I'd think reverance and adoration are distortions of love and not love itself.This is confusing too. What would you say are the positive attributes of universal love?
I think in it's purest form (as inspired by a Hatonn channeling), universal love is the desire of the Creator to know Itself. This then is distorted through the "color/song" of each's heart as part of self learning to know itself. To feel a need to heal others then is not universal love in itself, but instead more of a self need to act upon one's own inability to fully distill the experience of other-self within self and see the underlying love that already is inherently there.
Here I'd ask, do you believe that this attitude (of wanting to allevate the pain of others) is to be let go of somewhen when walking the steps of light? (Not necessarily as part of moving from 3D to 4D, who knows what lessons each of us are here to learn)
Ra saw fitting to materialize pyramids within this world yet not fitting to materialize food to those who are starving. And if I am wrong and that they did see it as fitting, then they were disallowed to by those who are of greater wisdom and love.
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: Yes, I think reverence and adoration are distortions of love, but I believe they are positive distortions of love. I'm saying -everything- should be elevated to what Ra calls the sacramental level, nothing above the self or anything else.
I don't think they are the only focus of positive distortions of love, but I do agree with bringing things to the sacramental level, just that this is more abstract than what has been expressed in this thread.
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: These are the feelings of affirmation that others seek from the Creator, or whatever they seek as divinity. Especially in contradiction to their 3rd density experience where they are belittled. This energy is the salvation of 3rd density. Why would you see it as a distortion, in this context?
I can safely affirm to you that not everyone desires compassion and love from others, I know some to whom affection from others makes them uneasy more than anything just as there are others it plainly hurts.
On my part I prefer to understand than to simply love, as such to me anyone at a step of their fate is there for a reason. I won't allow myself to change others' circumstances if I don't first seek to truly understand why they are where they are at. And here, I believe a person that needs a certain response to itself, will attract the right person to provide it. So I don't impose upon myself to be the answer to everyone that surrounds me.
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:Do you believe that each ,with an open and crystalized heart chakra, will feel the same as any other person? Or that each within many-ness will distort love into a personal feeling and then expression?Well of course not, but I think everyone is capable of "falling in love", as that is the archetypical movement of energy we are discussing for a reason. You either know what it feels like to fall in love, or you have a distorted idea of it based upon media/society and not experience. I'm trying to describe the process one goes through when they decide to take the leap and fall in love with all of creation. I can tell you, that I don't believe that they will look at a hungry person and turn away with food in their hands to "teach them a lesson" if their heart-chakra is wide open.
I think the meaning of falling in love is highly personal and it can be blended in myriads of ways within the many-ness. I don't see what you described as without distortions, but instead your own unique way to filter love, which is based upon your background experience of love.
This entire Octave is meant to expand what love truly entails, so I am not sure it is all that well to try to confine this infinite thought within the finite definition that one can resonate with.
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote: A wide-open heart chakra resonates with the martyr vibration. Do you understand what it feels like to be willing to martyr yourself for another our of love?
Haven't you ever had a pet? Or a grandparent who doted on you? Someone you adored and revered? How are these distortions of universal love?
I did experience all of this and do understand the martyr vibration, although I disagree that the heart chakra strictly resonate with this and that it denies your every other chakra.
In my view your chakras are there to channel the essence of your soul, so even if I remove all my earthly distortions and crystalize the heart of my soul within myself, I highly doubt it will be equivalent to your own. Everything you are is a mirror upon your past experiences, of which you are the harvest, and the way you describe your feeling of what love is does more to share in what ways you have experienced love within your soul than what love truly is.
(05-19-2016, 08:57 AM)Bring4th_Jade Wrote:Quote:a·dore
əˈdô(ə)r/
verb
love and respect (someone) deeply.
re·vere
rəˈvir/
verb
feel deep respect or admiration for (something).
So it looks like these words equate down to "respect". Do you consider respect for others a distortion?
Everything is a distortion.
Respect is more in alignment with my way of love and is a word I have used in this thread to define my relationship with my High Priestess.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-20-2016
Quote:Ra saw fitting to materialize pyramids within this world yet not fitting to materialize food to those who are starving.
This... seems like a possibly inaccurate assumption to me. Ra came to help Egypt further their spiritual distortions through gadgetry like the pyramids, but whether or not they fed anyone wasn't discussed. I'm sure some of the technologies imparted by Ra in Egypt or South America could have had something to do with agriculture along the way, but this is again, all speculation. What Ra learned was that coming in their 6th density form broke free will because it made them seem "other than" - that's why now their service is limited to incarnating Wanderers and inspiring them to serve, which would likely include feeding the hungry from time to time.
Quote:14.25 Questioner: How do you perform your normal service? How have you normally given the Law of One over the last 2,300 years? How have you normally given this [to] Earth people?
Ra: I am Ra. We have used channels such as this one, but in most cases the channels feel inspired by dreams and visions without being aware, consciously, of our identity or existence. This particular group has been accentuatedly trained to recognize such contact. This makes this group able to be aware of a focal or vibrational source of information.
So, Ra's still seeking to serve even though they are moving into 7th density.
As far as the rest of your post again that's fine to take the "above-polarity" point of view but again the archetypes we are discussing are about engaging in polarity and therefore utilizing the Transformation of the Mind by altering ourselves through desire to increase the vibrational quality of the planet. If this process doesn't resonate with you, that's fine. I'm really doing my best to use these teachings to cultivate active love and affection for others, and you seem to think that is a waste of time and distorted, but I assure you that I disagree. I can't imagine any other way to spend my time. What would you suggest is a less selfish pursuit?
Instead of trying to articulate what you think "love" is (and in this context we are specifically talking about STO love, the green-ray vibration...) then what would you describe as the "principle governing the use of the deep mind" that you abandon? Or are you not interested in the Transformation at all?
Quote:Everything is a distortion.
Yes, but this attitude gets us nowhere in the discussion, especially when you begin with pointing fingers at this and that distortion within my thoughts. So everything's a distortion, yeah. This is a given.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-20-2016
I think you miss that what I am hinting at since the beginning is not an above-polarity point of view but instead the relativeness of it all within many-ness. I also did not mean to say that what you do is useless in any way but instead your very own tune and that cultivating love is quite a long and complex journey (entire octave.. through infinite many-ness..) of which I tried to share what it means for me to cultivate love in constrast to what it means to you. I do believe neither of us are at the end step and that both our perspectives will need to be let go of with time.
I said that everything is a distortion because you asked me if respect was one, as I said it is a distortion I am in alignment with and so that is more central to the transformation of my mind, where respect/appreciation is heigheted yet not turned into adoration/idolatry either. I do think you have said many things that I resonated with when you started extrapolating more your initial ideas into longer and more complex thoughts and that they will prove useful in my evolution. In the manner I work on myself I don't let go of anything particular but things do keep falling away with time, times and times again.
In regards to Ra moving 7D, I also believe a 6D entity can do a lot of it's work to move toward 7D from negative densities although it will need to switch to truly move on. All ways of service are to be let go of if the paradox is to be broken. Ultimately I do believe there is a moment of realization for all, that sees that self was always serving itself and that this was always the gift of self to others. That unity ever lied in this and that this is the true desire of all things.
I seek to find beauty in all things, that is the manner I desire to heighten my polarity and see where this leads me.
RE: Courting the maiden - Jade - 05-20-2016
I see what you are saying, but what I also feel is that you personally think it is folly to open the heart in service, and that abstaining in wisdom is the "higher path" (that of the teacher and not the healer?). I get your point of the distortions among manyness, which is why I seek to undistort this concept yet still understand it in the context that Ra meant it. I'm not of the group that believes that Wanderers incarnated just to "be", Ra says most Wanderers are 6th density so that means we didn't do this just on a whim. We want to be incarnated to help.
"I seek to find beauty in all things" seems to me like beauty is not inherent? To me, adoration/reverence is loving what is already there. We can rephrase our perspectives ad nauseam but they will likely always seem distorted to each other. But my point is that in this thread, we are talking about this very specific idea that is one in twenty-two separate yet united concepts. So, it is a "restricted" conversation in that sense because I'm trying to articulate the meaning behind this one specific card, in context, based on Ra's teachings. I'm obviously very open to discussing it in a wider context, but I feel like you take umbrage with some specific concepts as described by Ra and not me, mechanical things like the word "courting" and the imagery of the maiden and the prostitute. These are not my analogies, they are Ra's, and I'm trying to interpret them. You can say "distorted" but it doesn't help elucidate things in the context of this thread unless you re-frame them in the context of the Transformation of the Mind.
You mention that things fall away and that is often how we use the Transformation of the Mind. I believe there is value in using it proactively, as well, which was the initial point of this thread. But what things, for you, have led up to a Transformation? And how would you describe the subsequent Great Way?
Quote:All ways of service are to be let go of if the paradox is to be broken.
Why are we trying to break the paradox? I mean, resolving the paradox could mean seeing all things as service to the Creator and therefore engaging in what one most desires. But I don't want to break the paradox, I like participating in this system.
RE: Courting the maiden - Minyatur - 05-21-2016
I think i have always been talking about the transformation of the mind so far and have never in any way tried to deny the archetype.
You seem to equate wisdom with coldness but that is untrue. Entities that walk to path of the martyr will eventually gain in wisdom and stop walking that path. Why? Because wisdom has an impact upon polarity and what was seen as good without wisdom, come to be seen as unwise and can become depolarizing.
In the example of the starving person I gave, where in very particular circumstances, your intuition would tell you that you can provide a greater service by refraining from providing the service you desire yourself to provide, to instead provide what unconsciously know the greater service is. You don't have to know why, there can myriads of reasons, and it isn't necessarily about teaching a lesson but instead possibly not preventing someome to learn it's own lesson. Not eating boosts both spirit and mind and has a use, and could provide a window of opportunity for self realization and change. The experiences of others are not always your own to intertwine with, and if you are in touch with your High Priestess and dismiss your inner-voice to do what makes you feel good, then what is an everyday polarizing act could become a depolarizing one in that very particular scenario.That is wisdom, it is your perspective and understanding of reality which affects your polarity, because no action ever is polarizing in itself but instead the intent.
And with wisdom comes transformation of the mind, letting go of distortions for higher ways instead as one becomes more and more aware to provide higher service.
To me harmonizing with your High Priestess is this, it is to let go of a surface understanding and of unuseful distortions, to move ever toward something greater. It is gaining in awareness, which is linked to wisdom, and transform your mind and feedback of reality (polarity).
With this comes choices, because there is no wrong, between the focus required by self as per love filtered by self. About this I spoke of the positive aspect I resonate with by speaking of respect, seeing the beauty which is learning to love more and more what is. All of this happening through heightened awareness of it all (transformation of the mind). That is the manner in which I seek to find passion within myself and come to radiate love, it is love as known to myself.
The first time Ra speaks of this archetype, this is what is said:
Quote:79.40 Questioner: Transformation of the mind into what?
Ra: I am Ra. As you observe Archetype Six you may see the student of the mysteries being transformed by the need to choose betwixt the light and the dark in mind.
This has been more in alignment with what I have been expressing and I think had a reason to be the first manner it was explained, least distorted way and most representative of the core of it. I spoke of this by saying it is about a polarized relationship between yourself and unconscious mind and others. You exist with those and come to make choices as you awareness of yourself and others increases.
Before giving the maiden analogy (exact line before), Ra has said this :
Quote:Remember, O student, that these images are not literal. They haunt rather than explicate.
Given this warning, I don't perceive why you believe that everything I say is unrelated to the archetype itself and to the transformation of the mind. Like I said the maiden analogy does not contain the archetype itself, and instead give keys toward a potential of insight. If you have highly resonated with this analogy then maybe it is because that was already your unveiled feeling or manner to filter this archetype.
Then the great ways are when a strong direction and focus are found which empowers the mind by removing doubts and opening upon resources. Which then gives greater responsibility and greater polarity.