(05-23-2011, 02:59 PM)zenmaster Wrote: 'Seeing' at that gnostic level we can see the object as an 'interior' (time/space). That's where the notions of realm of forms, or symbolism, comes from.

(05-23-2011, 11:40 PM)Oceania Wrote: well Bashar says something to that effect. Zen, i'm not talking about 4d, of course we have no veil there. i'm saying 3d people without a veil would pop out of space/time afaics.

(05-24-2011, 12:06 AM)Bring4th_Steve Wrote: Zenmaster, not sure that the veil has anything to do with mechanics of the brain. Consider what Ra had to say on the matter:

Questioner: This veil then occurs between what we now call the unconscious and conscious minds. Is this correct?
Ra: I am Ra. This is correct.

Ra: I am Ra. Firstly, let us establish that both before and after the veil the same conditions existed in time/space; that is, the veiling process is a space/time phenomenon.

It can be inferred that the veil is a noun/state, not a verb/function.

(05-24-2011, 12:17 AM)Icaro Wrote:

(05-23-2011, 02:59 PM)zenmaster Wrote: 'Seeing' at that gnostic level we can see the object as an 'interior' (time/space). That's where the notions of realm of forms, or symbolism, comes from.

Which goes back to the other thread about understanding and viewing the present moment for what it is. I find myself during daily activity pausing every now and then and viewing the illusion with gnostic eyes.

(05-24-2011, 12:57 AM)Icaro Wrote: I think he simply meant that the veil isn't a function OF the brain, but rather that it is independent and works with the brain.

(05-23-2011, 11:18 PM)Oceania Wrote: thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

(05-30-2011, 12:01 PM)lightning Wrote:

(05-23-2011, 11:18 PM)Oceania Wrote: thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

The veil is merely a perceptual orientation. It comes from the brain which is hard-wired to this perception because it creates the ego. Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith. A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

(05-30-2011, 12:01 PM)lightning Wrote:

(05-23-2011, 11:18 PM)Oceania Wrote: thin veil is still a veil, what i mean is if you understand it all you pop out of space/time.

The veil is merely a perceptual orientation. It comes from the brain which is hard-wired to this perception because it creates the ego. Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith. A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

(05-31-2011, 08:52 PM)Raman Wrote: Venus is a planet now that has 5th/6th density environment...inhabited by 5d entities... if we could travel to venus....would be able to see 3d structures done by Ra...millions and millions of years ago? Even traces?

Lets say when venus was 4d....would that still be possible?

Venus just appears inhospitable for 3d and we unable to see 5d entities? Kinda like Saturn rings and the Council?

When earth goes 4d...3d structures appears to remain but to what extent? What about the nuclear devices and plants, for example?

(06-16-2010, 11:55 PM)MtDoraGuy Wrote:

Quote:If the end of the Great Cycle is near, all who have learned the lessons (or not) will be at a point of continued 3D or progression to 4D- or 4D+. A 'natural disaster' is just another means of getting people to the correct density when the time is right, to continue their path.

Half the fun is thinking about it

I attended the Austin Convergence with David. During it, he said that the earth will not die a 'nuclear' death, that the ET's would not allow it and neutralize any bombs if we tried to use them on each other.

He also said that if natural disasters occurred to destroy mankind on this planet, that all people will make the transition, either to 4d or another 3d planet.

I imagine the 3d people would 'trancend' away from earth the same way the 3d peoples left Mars during their destruction.

(05-30-2011, 12:01 PM)lightning Wrote: Penetrating the veil is facilitated by giving up the things that the ego tells us are important and by abdicating the self as any kind of worthwhile judge. The Bible is full of examples whereby one can do this - love, forgiveness, judge not...., but primarily faith.

(05-30-2011, 12:01 PM)lightning Wrote: A prolonged use of any of these things can and will lead to penetrating the veil. When it occurs, and this is true whether one is a so-called wanderer or not, one experiences joy and the miraculous becomes common-place (actually, I don't think it makes any difference whatever whether there are wanderers). Another profound side-effect becomes a constant awareness of the Self, or Higher Self, and operating under it's guidance all the time. But doing all these things comes from what Ra referred to as balancing. Interestingly enough, I seldom see it discussed on these forums. It seems that many people would rather discuss other things.

(06-17-2010, 03:12 PM)MtDoraGuy Wrote:

Quote:G: M writes, “I would like to ask Q’uo what is the fate of the veil on this planet beginning in 2013 and continuing in time thereafter? Will it gradually dissolve? If so, at approximately what rate? Please describe how this occurrence will affect the planet and the third-density entities upon it as much as you can without infringing on the Law of Confusion. Thank you.”

Q'uo: We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. When one is, as you are, possessed of physical senses which perceive a physical world, it is completely understandable that you would not necessarily grasp the concept that all apparently solid objects are actually fields of energy. As fields of energy, the closest that they come to matter is small fields of energy within the larger and encompassing field of energy which are called atoms. However, from your scientists you have received the information that even these points of matter, so called, are in fact energy fields, that matter has never been seen by your keenest telescope. Rather, it is the path of energy that is seen. And you know from your scientists that an atom consists almost entirely of space. We mention these scientific facts to you so that you may begin to wrap your mind around the concept of the nested densities of the creation.

Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth. Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth. These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within space/time and time/space, held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your sun.

Third-density Earth is an Earth whose light is waning. While it will remain third-density, it will no longer support third-density entities in their seeking of the truth. Thusly, third density is shortly to become inactive, we would say, within three or four hundred of your years beyond 2012. Thusly, 2013 upon your planet will look very much like 2012 upon your planet. However, you will find that your population of entities grows more and more interested and fascinated with the reparation of the Earth and the healing of what you call your Mother Earth or Gaia.

Those who incarnate at this time upon Planet Earth, that is, after 2012, will be those whose experiences in other incarnations have carried with them an element of adhering karma because of the destruction of their Earth whether it be this Earth and the destruction of Atlantis, or Maldek, or Mars, or several other Earths that created an uninhabitable third-density planet and thusly needed to finish third density upon Planet Earth. There are quite a few millions of those who feel that desire at this time to be part of the healing of the Mother. And there is great joy in contemplating that healing.

Fourth-density Earth is an entirely different sphere, within which third density is nested. And as fourth-density light becomes that which your sun is capable of offering, that fourth-density Earth shall more and more become populated by those from third-density Earth who have graduated in a positive sense and wish to move on. It will be a long time before entities who are inhabiting third density will be able to see entities of fourth density. However, they are as real and as physical, shall we say, to themselves and to fourth-density Earth as you are to your Earth.

We realize that this is one of the less comfortable or naturally obvious concepts having to do with the concept of densities. It is natural for a person to think that this same Earth upon which your feet make footsteps shall become fourth density and that on this same Earth, fourth density shall take place. However, we would suggest to you that it is much like wanting to take your physical body with you when you pass from physical life upon this planet and hoping to drag what this instrument would call this chemical distillery of a body into fourth density and attempt to lug it around when everyone else is dancing with a much lighter and electrically driven rather than chemically driven body.[/

I find this very interesting. Q'uo states that there will still be 3d incarnations on earth for the next 300-400 years.

This only makes me more curious how the harvest wil manifest itself in 2012.

(06-03-2011, 03:34 AM)vbaba Wrote:

(06-17-2010, 03:12 PM)MtDoraGuy Wrote:

Quote:G: M writes, “I would like to ask Q’uo what is the fate of the veil on this planet beginning in 2013 and continuing in time thereafter? Will it gradually dissolve? If so, at approximately what rate? Please describe how this occurrence will affect the planet and the third-density entities upon it as much as you can without infringing on the Law of Confusion. Thank you.”

Q'uo: We are those of Q’uo, and we thank the one known as M for this query. When one is, as you are, possessed of physical senses which perceive a physical world, it is completely understandable that you would not necessarily grasp the concept that all apparently solid objects are actually fields of energy. As fields of energy, the closest that they come to matter is small fields of energy within the larger and encompassing field of energy which are called atoms. However, from your scientists you have received the information that even these points of matter, so called, are in fact energy fields, that matter has never been seen by your keenest telescope. Rather, it is the path of energy that is seen. And you know from your scientists that an atom consists almost entirely of space. We mention these scientific facts to you so that you may begin to wrap your mind around the concept of the nested densities of the creation.

Third-density Earth is nested within fourth-density Earth. It is not the same Earth as fourth-density Earth. Third-density Earth will not become fourth-density Earth, any more than first-density Earth became second-density Earth, or second-density Earth became third-density Earth. These densities are nested in such a way as to occupy the same area or influence within space/time and time/space, held lovingly by the overarching energy field of your sun.

Third-density Earth is an Earth whose light is waning. While it will remain third-density, it will no longer support third-density entities in their seeking of the truth. Thusly, third density is shortly to become inactive, we would say, within three or four hundred of your years beyond 2012. Thusly, 2013 upon your planet will look very much like 2012 upon your planet. However, you will find that your population of entities grows more and more interested and fascinated with the reparation of the Earth and the healing of what you call your Mother Earth or Gaia.

Those who incarnate at this time upon Planet Earth, that is, after 2012, will be those whose experiences in other incarnations have carried with them an element of adhering karma because of the destruction of their Earth whether it be this Earth and the destruction of Atlantis, or Maldek, or Mars, or several other Earths that created an uninhabitable third-density planet and thusly needed to finish third density upon Planet Earth. There are quite a few millions of those who feel that desire at this time to be part of the healing of the Mother. And there is great joy in contemplating that healing.

Fourth-density Earth is an entirely different sphere, within which third density is nested. And as fourth-density light becomes that which your sun is capable of offering, that fourth-density Earth shall more and more become populated by those from third-density Earth who have graduated in a positive sense and wish to move on. It will be a long time before entities who are inhabiting third density will be able to see entities of fourth density. However, they are as real and as physical, shall we say, to themselves and to fourth-density Earth as you are to your Earth.

We realize that this is one of the less comfortable or naturally obvious concepts having to do with the concept of densities. It is natural for a person to think that this same Earth upon which your feet make footsteps shall become fourth density and that on this same Earth, fourth density shall take place. However, we would suggest to you that it is much like wanting to take your physical body with you when you pass from physical life upon this planet and hoping to drag what this instrument would call this chemical distillery of a body into fourth density and attempt to lug it around when everyone else is dancing with a much lighter and electrically driven rather than chemically driven body.[/

I find this very interesting. Q'uo states that there will still be 3d incarnations on earth for the next 300-400 years.

This only makes me more curious how the harvest wil manifest itself in 2012.

Greetings. Regarding Densities: 1st Density is the Mineral Kingdom: Once a mineral, always a mineral. Planets are 1st Density. 2nd Density is Plants and Animals. 3rd Density is Human, with a 75,000 year cycle. 4th Density is MAN, a higher, electro-chemical form of Humans. 30 Million years is allocated in this cycle! 5th Density is non-physical Quasi MAN. 6th Density is the Social Memory Complex. 7th Density is the Mystery/The One Infinite Creator.

1st Density Planet Earth supports 2nd Density Plants and Animals and 3rd Density Humans and a small percentage of 4th & 5th Density Wanderers incarnated in 3rd Density vehicles. So you see, 3D entities already see entities of 4th Density but because of of their 3D soul status, are unable to detect the difference.

A planet vibrates to a Density. Earth supported 2D long before 3D was seeded then she vibrated to 3D. Our Grandmother Moon, which is a 1st Density planet, vibrates 5th Density for she is inhabited by non physical 5th Density entities which 3rd Density does not detect.

3rd Density Yellow Ray of Emotions is ending on Planet Earth and she will no longer support 3D after the the upcoming Harvest and her Transition into the Green Ray of Love Vibration. We are at the end of a 75,000 year Human Cycle and the 3rd and Final Harvest is upon us. 3D is not compatible with 4D. We are witnessing this clashing upon the surface of the planet at this time.

The Unharvestables will be taken to a planet prepared for them in another system to begin another 75,000 year cycle in which to graduate out of 3rd Density. They will be allowed to return to earth when they have graduated out of 3rd Density. The earth will no longer "welcome" 3rd Density, other than in the realm of memories of the Harvestables who choose to return to this planet after her Transition into 4D.

The 4D Harvestables will not keep their 3rd Density bodies. New 4D bodies, which are denser than 3D, are being manufactured for the Harvestables. Nothing of 3rd Density, including the bodies we wear, will survive the cleansing cataclysms.

This one sees your distortion towards an earth supporting multi-densities nested within each other, to be rather a Multidimensional Earth - a reflection of our Multidimensional Selves: wherein Major Worlds with multiple Sub-Worlds or Probable Worlds of Reality exist at the same time/space as does with the human experience with our past, present and future lives existing simultaneously.

(06-01-2011, 12:25 AM)3DMonkey Wrote:

(05-31-2011, 08:52 PM)Raman Wrote: Venus is a planet now that has 5th/6th density environment...inhabited by 5d entities... if we could travel to venus....would be able to see 3d structures done by Ra...millions and millions of years ago? Even traces?

Lets say when venus was 4d....would that still be possible?

Venus just appears inhospitable for 3d and we unable to see 5d entities? Kinda like Saturn rings and the Council?

When earth goes 4d...3d structures appears to remain but to what extent? What about the nuclear devices and plants, for example?

Maybe uranium and plutonium turn into vanilla pudding in a green ray activated environment ...

(06-03-2011, 11:24 AM)Oceania Wrote: 4d beings aren't already harvested, they were harvested but they have to repolarize to be harvested. that's how i see it.

---

or at least remain polarized.

(06-03-2011, 12:04 PM)vbaba Wrote: .....................

(06-03-2011, 01:20 PM)unity100 Wrote:

(06-03-2011, 11:24 AM)Oceania Wrote: 4d beings aren't already harvested, they were harvested but they have to repolarize to be harvested. that's how i see it.

---

or at least remain polarized.

in Ra material, it was said that 4d entities were here for 4d work. 4d work, is 4d work. not 3d work of polarizing for attaining harvestable status.

moreover, ra had said that the 3-4d bodies occupied by 4d entities were going to produce the eventual 4d body.

(06-03-2011, 12:04 PM)vbaba Wrote: .....................

what are your sources for these ?

Quote:16.24 Questioner: Roughly how many total planets in this galaxy of stars that we are in are aware regardless of density?
Ra: I am Ra. Approximately 67 million.

(06-03-2011, 10:31 AM)unity100 Wrote: i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

(06-03-2011, 11:29 PM)Raman Wrote:

(06-03-2011, 10:31 AM)unity100 Wrote: i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

That is the problem I see many times in this forum... many treat the quo channelings to be as reliable as Ra's just because Carla is involved at times ,etc...

I honestly must say that there could be some validity on those channelings just because Carla has experience with channelings. However, you cannot compare Ra's channelings with Q'uo's. For example I must say that if David Wilcock is saying " I am channeling Ra now..." i m sorry i must say "zero probabilities" with q'uo maybe a little higher...not enough for me though.

It is hard enough to put together the immense amount of information in the Ra material.


To me this is the only reliable material so far, and it took me a few tries to discern if I could trust the source..but then there were very incredible moments where i felt deep inside that "Carla could not have made this up, even unconsciously --not realizing it--although the validity is there due to being unconscious...

I do not think it matters that it is 30 years old.

(06-03-2011, 11:29 PM)Raman Wrote:

(06-03-2011, 10:31 AM)unity100 Wrote: i wouldnt trust q'uo channelings (or any channeling that is done in conscious manner that is) that much. i have been told some of the pieces are quite colored by the perceptions of whomever channeled them at that point.

That is the problem I see many times in this forum... many treat the quo channelings to be as reliable as Ra's just because Carla is involved at times ,etc...

I honestly must say that there could be some validity on those channelings just because Carla has experience with channelings.